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Stick: I really hope that isn’t an offensive player talking about his position coach. That would be a crippling loss…
Worst kept secret in sports…. This one has seemed inevitable for a while now, and in my mind was cemented when we picked up Harris. I wish Batts the best and absolutely loved him as an on the ball defender.
Unrelated, but I’m glad the site is back up. This is my favorite Wolfpack forum.
Chop: I think on the surface that is the answer and it is an acceptable one. I personally think there is more to this story than that. Go back and re-read the release. Yurt wasn’t going to be back…..
Yurt is saying the right things. It is about Ewing and the media is running with it. Fine by me. I wish him the best and hope he lands in the NBA some day. He has height, soft hands and a great jump shot. That’s a base to build from.
There are some those more connected to the program on another site who lay out the “business” side of this decision. Their suggestion is to think about this less as a thought process about our current program, coaches, the school, etc. and more about the context of the individual in question, some of the larger questions related to that individual and the location of some of those larger questions.
The way that original release was worded reminded me of the song “Closing Time………..” That’s not coming from the “insiders,” but is my reading of the situation. We thank Yurt for his time, he is moving on.
I think Yurt is a skilled player who will end up in the pros. You don’t teach 7 feet, soft hands and a jump shot. If Ewing helps him develop some toughness, defensive positioning, the expectations for playing in the NBA, then it is a good decision for him.
NC State has a lot of bouncy, fast, shooting, PF types coming in. I tend to think that is what we are looking for out of the post. It is unclear to me if we are going to play 4 around 1 or 3 guards and 2 bouncy PFs. Recruiting suggests the latter.
Packi and I had a quick chat about this yesterday. Go back and re-read the release. It was clear that Yurt wouldn’t be back, which is why we are after graduate transfer big men. There may be more here than meets the eye.
On the surface, and with a positive spin, it makes sense for Yurt to go and play for one of the best big men to have played the game. If that is the reason, then it is probably a smart business move. He needs to bulk up and the year off gives him that. If it gives him a year of skills development day in and day out, then that might actually help him more than getting on the court and showing his weaknesses in games (and thus limiting his draft stock).
I wish him the best and hope he does well. Without him we would not have made the tournament this year.
As for our program, we have an open assistant’s spot. I hope we use it on a big man coach, even if we do plan on playing 4 around 1 or 3 guards and two bouncy, smaller PFs. It is fine to favor guards, and I think college basketball is a guard’s game. We probably need somebody who can help the big men we have maximize their potential and Yurt leaving and talking about development probably doesn’t send the best message.
Grey: Check earlier in the thread and you will see my thoughts on Roof. Solid hire. I think Roof + Hux will be better for both, much like Tenuta helped make Archer serviceable, and Archer probably balanced out “Rock” (as some GT fans called Tenuta).
As for Drink being pass happy, his season as Boise’s OC was very telling. Go look at some box scores and watch some film. They lost a LOT of games (by their standards) that year and in the games they lost, they were very unbalanced (pass heavy). It’s not like they didn’t have the horses to run, as they clearly did (and went back to the next year). In NC State’s losses last year with Drink, we also weren’t balanced. There are clear trends.
Drink is a disciple of Malzahn. I’ve seen him credit Gus many times. Gus is a pass first, take what the defense gives you, kind of guy. Stands to reason the padawan is as well.
One thing I thought was Drink’s problem last year was he didn’t use Jaysam as efficiently as he could have.
Yogi: I agree with your post. JSam is a once a decade player for a school like NC State, and kudos for the staff in his recruitment (guy was massively productive in high school). I’m not really sure Drink quite knew what to do with him last year. It may have been that JSam was just hurt much of the year so we got what we could (and he gave what he could). If that’s the case, then Drink did what he could and we’re off base.
Canada was predictable in formation and motion, but he called a very balanced game. He put out some of the best run offenses I have seen in my lifetime at NC State, and he didn’t have “the hogs” on the OL that I think we’re building towards now. He had his weaknesses, and it was time for him to find his next pasture (and it is hard to argue that LSU isn’t a greener one), but on just calling a game with X’s and O’s, I liked it better than Drink.
I think Drink is pass happy, but I also think he can develop a QB. That will help him recruit a QB. I’d be fine with that trade, but we’ve got to clean it up in the red zone. Right now I’m not convinced we can always run the ball when we want/have to/need to. If you can’t, it becomes tough to score inside the 20.
One thing I do like about Drink is that he is young and will learn with experience. He also seems willing to learn and be a part of a team and culture. I am not sure that Canada was that open to input, or was that great of an ambassador for the program. It’s better for our long term trajectory if Drink can learn on the job, improve our run / red zone game and stays with us for a while.
I’m not as impressed with Drink as many are. He is too pass happy for my liking and our red zone offense leaves a whole lot to be desired. Canada has a myriad of issues, but he called a better game and did it with lesser personnel and a significantly worse OL.
I try and forget that 51 point loss, and the last two years of the Gott era ever happened. If the NCAA vacated that, then it would seemingly go down as 1-0. 😉
WB86: I think you are posting in jest. I prefer the “actual” transparent route (unlike what UNC claimed). Fess up to what we know quickly, take our punishment and move on.
The FBI seemingly is after collusion, tax evasion, bribery and racketeering. Gott and staff would go down individually for that it seems. Adidas and these people that received these “gifts” probably didn’t report them on taxes.
The NCAA has to be very, very, very careful. Their whole system is about to come crashing down. I suspect we’d get vacated wins and probation. Big deal.
Those schemes are set up to make sure the University has plausible deniability. Only the most egregious and systemic cheaters (like UNC with their dental school, or Southern California with Carroll) are doing it in such a way that the larger university can get implicated.
DSJ getting paid had a lot of rumblings……………….. I was hoping it was related to his surgery.
The “we didn’t know” defense is pretty weak. When you hire the Gott and he hires assistants who are “recruiters” then you know what you are getting. When you have to work to get marginal kids cleared every year for a variety of reasons, then there are questions that need to be asked. When you allow Harrick to be anywhere near your program, you are playing with fire. When your coach is directly recruiting against one of the dirtiest programs around and is trying for the same guys, then you probably need to ask questions. When one of your targeted recruits is dumb enough to tweetspublicly that basketball is a business, you’ve got to wonder what kind of kids are being targeted. When you hire a coach and he “brings a recruit” in a “package deal” you have to question why there’s such loyalty of a player to a random assistant.
There were a series of very bad decisions made with respect to the men’s basketball program and they started with “an email” and a knee jerk signing of a TV announcer fired in disgrace from his alma mater………
Rye, The “hurry up” offense doesn’t mean you necessarily have to snap the ball “in a hurry.” but that you hurry to the LOS and be ready to snap the ball. This prevents defenses from substituting in situational players. We do it all the time as do some other teams.
The defensive personnel are on the field without enough time to sub. Good, well coached defenses switch alignments, etc., but the OC and QB know the personnel they have to work against.
Yep. I totally get this. Line up fast, freeze the personnel and work a match up advantage. I’ve not charted how many personnel substitutions actually happen on a play by play basis in college football. My sense looking at snaps played charts is that there is a lot less substitution for the middling BCS team than many think, but I could be wrong. I think most of the rotation happens on the DL.
It also works both ways. The offense is also equally locked into their personnel. Have the 4 WR set in and it’s 3rd and 2, then is the call to throw it, run the QB and risk injury? Do it wrong and you’ve got a quick 3 and out, which a LOT of these up tempo teams end up with. It only takes a couple of 3 and outs for a high tempo team to get off track and get blown out, particularly if they’re putting their tired defense back out there.
Also if that WR runs a 30 yard route and the has to sprint back to line up fast, then they’re gassed as well. Teams will end up pausing on the line, and everyone kind of gets a little breather. I get that the quick line up is about the personnel groups, but people tend to think that the defensive guys are the only ones impacted.
I like getting to the line quickly as a strategy for the weaker team. In theory the weaker team plays their 1s a larger percentage of the game, and the deeper team does more rotation. It’s why Saban’s Alabama guys fake injuries, stall, he complains, etc.. It allows for them to sub and go from player 1A to player 1B who is fresh and there’s very little drop off there. The weaker team has to play their 1s every play anyways because when the 2s go in, they’re in even more trouble. May as well play the line up trick to stop the deeper/better team from subbing. The 1s on offense had better be well conditioned though.
We hired the Gott and allowed him to hire the bag men. We “gott” what was coming.
If you look at the timeline, you can figure out which coach paid DSJ via process of elimination. As dumb and slimy as Gott is, he probably wasn’t dumb enough to make the actual payments.
The only one on that staff doing any real coaching was Lutz. I said at the time, said along the way, and still believe that our program would have been in much better shape had we hired Lutz and not Gott.
Yow’s done a great overall job. If you look to the right you’ll see a tweet of a picture that shows we have 1/2 the budget of Ohio State and that Stanford spends 25% more than we do.
She’s not been perfect, and no one is perfect at their job. Her biggest gap in my mind has been Gott. He’s gone now, and she’s hired better with Keatts. Hopefully the gift of Gott doesn’t keep on giving. If it goes the wrong way, Yow might end up retiring early.
When I see the talent we had on defense it makes me believe we under performed.
The elite talent (4 likely drafted) was only on the defensive line. Our LB were experienced but not elite (0 likely drafted) and our DB’s (0 likely drafted) were okay but a weak spot on last year’s team. The 4 elite D-linemen gave the appearance of talent on defense but we were only talented on the D-line.
This is kind of my point running 4-2-5. The strength of this defense from second one of DD has been the DL. We inherited the most from talent from TOB on defense at the DL. TOB’s DL coach went to Clemson and our first DL coach under DD was arguably better. Will the current one recruit and develop talent as well as the last two? We shall see, but that is a tall order. Hopefully our S&C program helps with that.
The weakness has been the back 7 and especially the secondary. We’ve turned over several coaches in the back, and now are bringing in another coach to help. If DBs are my weakest link, I’m not putting 5 out there every down. It’d be like choosing to kick a FG when the offense stalls out at the 35 given our place kicking (no comment on that).
I think the impact of the spread/hurry up teams are greatly exaggerated. For every Oregon under Chip Kelly, there are a half dozen Syracuses under Dino Babers. Yeah, they play fast but they shoot themselves in the foot as often as they do something good with their tempo, and that tempo on offense leaves their defense dead tired. A lot of those tempo teams end up giving up lots and lots of points. One could argue it is due to more possessions and plays, but their per play and per possession defensive stats are pretty bad.
I do think teams with more talent should play at a faster tempo and I think the exact same thing in basketball. If you’ve got more talent, run more plays, lengthen the game and eventually those great players will win in 1-1 match ups, or the lesser team will “return to their norm” and make a mistake. In converse if you don’t have talent, take the air out of the ball, shorten the game and hopefully you catch a lucky break or two (Loyola Chicago just put on a clinic on how to do this in the NCAA tournament).
Oregon was good because they had GREAT talent and a great set of college coaches. The great head coach left and there was enough talent there for 1 more year, but things went downhill quickly. Alabama is great because they have a great coach and great talent. They have a totally different style that is probably the polar opposite of those spread/tempo teams but they still won their 2nd title in 3 years and 4th in the past 7. One can win that way just as well, and arguably even more convincingly if you’ve got the right players and coaches.
If I’m coaching, give me a team that can run the ball when they want to and stops the run on defense. We FINALLY have a real OL (and I credit DD and Ledford for that). Run the ball until the other team shows they can stop you, then mix it up. Last year we had a stud DL (of which I’ve only seen something similar at NC State one time). Stack the box, stop the run, force passing downs and turn that DL loose. This game doesn’t seem that hard.
I hope we can keep the lines going. More than anything else, that will be the key to our success. If we can, then we may actually eventually break through and win something meaningful — despite scheme, baffling in game decisions, etc..
Couple of quick points:
– Kicking: I don’t follow recruiting as closely as some, but it is my understanding that “the kicker” is due on campus this year as an incoming recruit (or maybe a recruit coming off a redshirt). Supposedly this is why we took a grad transfer as a one year stop gap last season. Kicking has cost us some games, so if we were even average we’d have had a couple of more years. Nowhere to go but up.– DD taking a more CEO approach: I believe that there’s no coincidence that in a couple of games or halves where headphones have been off from the head man of both squads, the Pack has looked better than the opposition. Some of the clock management and down and distance things that we’ve talked about numerous times have been baffling. I think DD does his best work Sunday-Friday and in the offseason, but doesn’t really have a good feel for the game on Saturday. I’m not in the huddle or on the microphones, so I could be wrong, but that is my take.
In a similar vein, when people have been critical of Hux I have often wondered why they’re not similarly critical of DD. Hux is clearly running DD’s defense. My hope is that with Roof and Hux DD can trust enough to let go some on defense, which I think will ultimately end up better. Archer and Tenuta did better together than either did apart, and I think we may see Hux and Roof do the same.
– Redshirting: Forgot to mention it, but I love it. For a lesser program like ours, this is the only way. We started that year 1, so I would agree with Grey that we sacrificed today for tomorrow, which I have liked. It is one of the things that I point to in defense of DD.
– “Our” 4-2-5: I’m not an expert or a DC. My take is that you shift to 4-2-5 based on down and distance when you need an extra cover guy, and in an obvious passing down. Put an extra corner out there and press a bit more on the coverage, or drop one of the lb back, bring 5 and go full zone.
I think as an every down defense you end up a bit weak against the run unless you end up running 3 safeties. Run 3 safeties every down and you’re effectively running a 4-3 because the weakside LB is often light and more mobile but is lined up closer to the line. Is a 4-2-5 with 3 safeties all that different than a 4-3 where the Will is lined up off the line? Maybe not so much, particularly given that in college that weakside lb was often a bigger safety in high school. If so, get the weakside LB/safety up closer to help with run support because I’m all about stopping the run.
My problem is with “our” 4-2-5. We don’t press the edges taking away the pass, but we go light on the run because we back a man off the line. Often I see a safety in pursuit of a WR in an obvious passing down, so I don’t know how much down/distance subbing we’re doing (I will be the first to admit I haven’t charted it). A lot of our blitzes from the secondary are painfully obvious and slow developing. If we’re playing this way, we’d better have darn good LB and I would argue that LB is where we’ve been weakest the last few seasons.
I’d be fine if we were 4-3 on most downs, rolling into a 4-2-5 on obvious passing downs. I think that’s a good look for college ball. Despite the “spread” conversations, I still think the game on defense is to make the opposition be one dimensional. I’d much rather shut down the run and force the pass, particularly in college. Make that QB beat you. There are probably only 10-20 good ones at the entire level. In ACC play, which ones actually scared you this past year with their arm? Not many, including Louisville’s and FSU’s.
To the original title of the thread, we have DD for at least a while longer so none of us are done with DD. When he was making noise about leaving I was fine with that. The sun would have risen the next day. He stayed with a raise and an extension and I guess that is fine too.
I’m fairly optimistic about this year for several reasons:
1) We have Ledford and the OL and Finley under center. They will be able to score some points.
2) I tend to think Roof + Hux will make a good combo, particularly if that means that DD gets away from “coaching” in the games on defense. I like Hux more than most, but don’t like our 4-2-5.
3) Place kicking will be better
4) The Atlantic got easier this offseason, even if for just one year. I am in the minority who thinks that Taggert is actually an upgrade for FSU over Jimbo, but it is going to take him a couple of recruiting cycles. Louisville lost their Heisman candidate. Yeah, we lost our DL (and it was a darn good one) and the man who recruited and developed them (which to me is more concerning), but there is a window to creep up a bit more.Put it together and I see no reason why we cannot go 8-4 again.
As for Yow, she’s the best AD in my lifetime. Nobody is perfect though and her hiring and handling of Gott was “Gott-awful.” She’s doing better with Keatts. Time will tell just how much NC state (and by extension Yow) knew about the basketball scandal.
DD is clearly Yow’s guy and she wanted him back. I’m sure she feels that is best for NC State, but it was also best for self-preservation. Had DD left, I’m not so sure she’d have hired the successor. Her retirement timeline may have had to have been accelerated.
Besides he has already used up his chance for his one “free” pro feedback evaluation (another crock).
I think they changed that rule and they can get evaluated every year if they want now.
That’d be good news if true. One of the rarer examples of the NCAA trying to do right by a player.
I think we will see one guard transfer. There have been rumbling for quite some time, and an indication that the player in question thought he might be a 1 and 2 and done. Very strange, but it is the likely explanation for the Harris addition.
Heh. I thank them all. It isn’t easy balancing being a student with the demands of a high level college athlete. They’re not compensated at nearly the level of what they bring to the university. The system is screwed up, thus the outside forces that the FBI is investigating. Football is the same way, and in that sport they could be injured for life and don’t even get medical disability. The NCAA is a sham.
I would suspect it is 99.9% likely that Yurt isn’t playing college ball next year. The wording removed any chance he might test the waters and come back. Besides he has already used up his chance for his one “free” pro feedback evaluation (another crock). He went through the process last year and almost played his way in but returned. What he showed on the court given his size should put him over the top.
People forget that there is a whole lot of money to be made in the NBA by sitting at the 13th roster slot. A 7 footer with soft hands and a nice jumper is worth a flier and a roster spot, particularly when they are low drama. The NBA also drafts on potential. Stay too long and if he is still light in the frame, it will really be held against him. I may not like it, but this is probably a good time to go.
I wish Yurt the best. We would have not made the tournament this year without him.
Hmmm… I see it differently than you guys. The rumbling I heard were that he came in as a 5 star off the Turkish national team, and had expectations of being 1 and done. Between the NCAA and Gottfried he never really launched last year (a lot was also due to strength). He looked like a better high post in the UCLA offense with Abu being better on the block. Somehow the few times we did play them together and tried some high low, we inexplicably had Abu up top and Yurt down low.
He tested the pro waters and almost went last year. I was surprised he returned at all.
He improved greatly this year. We would not have won some crucial games without him. We looked the best when he played the best.
I suspect he’s a late first round or second round pick. He’s tall and can shoot and pass. In the pro level, he won’t be guarding the 5, but instead the four spot. The NBA is more offensive minded than college ball, so a guy with his offensive skill does have a spot. He may turn out as a better NBA 4 than he was a college 5.
I thank him for his time at NC state and wish him the best. The wording in the press release was awkward but I guess it is to signal we have another spot open.
Parrish benefits from hindsight in that article. While I agreed at the time that both moves he made were baffling, it is easy to write that piece a couple of years later.
I do wonder why the ADs that do the dumb things keep getting hired. Yeah, Pitt did some dumb things, but Oregon State (who has a long track record of doing dumb things), knowingly hired him.
I think it is more that some coaches and stiles of play just translate better to the tournament. Take Syracuse with that 2-3. It is a little bit different and they always have personnel that match up to it. Year in and year out they seem to advance further I. The NCAAs than their “talent” on paper suggests they should. There’s no way a couple of their teams that made deep runs should have gone that far, but they did.
With UVA, when they get an unfriendly whistle paired with a hot shooting team from the three, they are out. Their plan to take the air out of the ball back fires because it lets a team of lesser talent hang with them better in a game where their opponent is really up for that one game.
Before he got to UNC and could amass the talent than only cheating the way they do allows for (could not even cheat enough at Kansas), they were known for early outs. I routinely made a “living” at brackets picking them as out after the first or second round. Roy’s not a good in game coach. When plan A isn’t working, he is very slow to adjust (if he notices at all). In league play, that is where “tendencies” save him, but that doesn’t always happen in the big tournament. Thank you TAMU!
The tournament is a differ animal. That’s why it is so much fun.
I too felt the defense wasn’t where we needed it this year inside the arc. Having said that, I think some forget just how awful we’d been on defense the two years prior. We jumped over 100 spots in the national rankings on defense in one year. This year was also clearly better than the year prior as well.
Offensively we finished in the top 25 nationally. We only had one year under Gott when we were relatively better offensively, and that was year 2 (when we had the most talent on the court that we’ve had since V). I’d like to see what Keatts would do with Brown, Woods, and three McDonald’s AAs. For all the belly aching about defense, this team ranked better nationally than that one did.
Just a little perspective the morning after a tough loss. Rome wasn’t built in a day. I was really proud of this group and it was definitely the most I have enjoyed a NC State team since Gott’s year 1, and then since Hodge.
I didn’t like the match up. Seton Hall had a senior led team who felt like they had a lot of unfinished business. They were big inside and were battle tested from what I personally thought was the best league this year (the Big East). I still thought we’d get this one due to the long layoff, but I kind of figured out early that it just wasn’t going to be our day.
Game balls go to the Freeman brothers (figure of speech). They played like seniors who didn’t want their careers to end. I was sad for Al Freeman when he was crying in the handshake line afterwards. Say what you want but the guy had a career game when we needed it most. If the rest of the kids cared as much as AF, we’d have won today.
Nard was the only effective big man. Dorn stuffed the stat sheet yet again. They came to play, whistles be damned. The rest kind of looked surprised at how the game was being called.
In the end, we kind of peaked 2-3 weeks ago. I think we never quite recovered from GT. Maybe we just ran out of gas. Beverly in particular seemed to hit the freshman wall.
Oh well, on to next year. I really enjoyed year one. It will be interesting to see who is back, what all the new additions look like, what the OOC schedule looks like, physically how we look from a conditioning perspective and how quickly we get as a team. The future looks bright, but we need to carry some momentum and not reboot.
