Anybody NOT done with DD?

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This topic contains 180 replies, has 46 voices, and was last updated by  highstick 2 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 151 through 175 (of 181 total)
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  • #133483

    Texpack
    Participant

    4-3-3 is an interesting choice. Who needs that 1th guy anyway.

    #133484

    pakfanistan
    Participant

    1th

    Firth

    #133485

    Greywolf
    Participant

    4-3-3 is an interesting choice. Who needs that 1th guy anyway.

    Typo cracking on my typo? 😉

    #133490

    PackerInRussia
    Participant

    No wonder there have been times when they struggle in the secondary. Someone should let them know that they can play one more guy back there. Could revolutionize their defense.

    #133491

    PackerInRussia
    Participant

    By the way, I didn’t see a spring game thread, so I guess this is as good a place as any. I watched the replay with one eye. Looked like a lot of rain, so not the best indicator of things. I did see some good pitches and catches despite the wetness and despite what looked like good coverage.
    Anyone have any good observations from the game? (anyone watch it?)

    #133492

    Greywolf
    Participant

    By the way, I didn’t see a spring game thread, so I guess this is as good a place as any. I watched the replay with one eye. Looked like a lot of rain, so not the best indicator of things. I did see some good pitches and catches despite the wetness and despite what looked like good coverage.
    Anyone have any good observations from the game? (anyone watch it?)

    I bailed at the half but both your observations coincide with what I saw or think I saw. What was encouraging was the close, tight coverage on those routes that cost us 3 and out so often last year. Chris Ingram has some good coverage plays as did Nick McCloud. The LB’s appeared to be an up stat from last year. Without film to review it’s hard to be sure.

    Ted Roof is a much different personality than Hux. He is very vocal in a positive way with the players and I think we are going to see a different performance in our DB scheme. He seemed to be having a blast. Put Hux up in the box and let Roof handle the sideline coaching. Of course they interact and it’s not one doing one thing and the other another.

    Over all I’d say the defense as usual is ahead of the offense at this time of year. The competition for RB is going to be fierce. I was disappointed in Erin Collins performance but it’s hard to judge RB’s when they can’t cut on the wet field. A lot of slipping and falling.

    Our defense will have a different look this year but honestly we may be better overall than last year. Having 4 future NFLers on the defensive line is great but that also dictates what you do to defend. You pretty much knew what you were going to get with last year’s line. This year I expect more blitz, loops and stunts than we say last year. Grant Gibson passed the eye test.

    #133493

    Rick
    Keymaster

    Grey,
    Thanks for the posts. I enjoyed reading them.
    I love your optimism and really hope you are right about DD.

    For the record my main complaint about You had been her revenue hires and coach friendly contacts. We all knew she would get us higher in the directors cup.

    #133495

    freshmanin83
    Participant

    Looking at the stat lines for rushing seems like a few of them ran well. For those that saw the game was that 1 or 2 big runs or were they consistently running the ball.

    #133496

    Greywolf
    Participant

    Looking at the stat lines for rushing seems like a few of them ran well. For those that saw the game was that 1 or 2 big runs or were they consistently running the ball.

    From what I saw in the first half, most of the yardage was on a couple of runs. One by Will Eason and one by Nakia Robinson. Not too concerned one way or the other. Gallaspy and Person were both out and will be back in the fall.

    I couldn’t tell about his pass pro but Rhem ran hard and always seemed to fall forward. With 2nd and 3rd string lines in it is very difficult for me to tell whether the blocking was poor or the running was poor.

    Vernon Grier showed some real speed when he ran down Will Eason from 10 yards back and caught him on the 5 preventing a score. Eason is reportedly very fast. Eason easily ran the next play in from the 5. Grier returned KOs for Mallard Creek in HS. Was also on 4×100 relay team that won the national HS championship. Don’t know what is holding him back.

    #133498

    freshmanin83
    Participant

    Thanks.

    #133499

    PackerInRussia
    Participant

    There was at least one other really big run in the second half if I’m not mistaken. There were some good shorter runs and multiple huge runs where they hit the hole and just took off and didn’t get touched till the other end of the field.

    #133500

    Greywolf
    Participant

    There was at least one other really big run in the second half if I’m not mistaken. There were some good shorter runs and multiple huge runs where they hit the hole and just took off and didn’t get touched till the other end of the field.

    Thanks for the second half report. I got like the cat making love to the skunk. I had all that pleasure I could stand and headed for the house after the first half.

    Spring games results need to be taken with a grain of salt. Until the video is broken down, you can’t tell a lot about the quality of the play. “not getting touched” doesn’t sound good for the depth of the D assuming the 3rd and 4th lines and backers were in.

    #133501

    revdmills75
    Participant

    I was at the game and even stayed until the cold, wet end. Overall looked pretty good. I’m a huge football fan, but don’t know nearly as much as most on here since I never played. But, either our offense is gonna be phenomenal or our pass defense is horrible. On a wet day, our runners were regularly tackled for loss or short yardage while Finley picked apart the secondary. Coverage looked pretty good, like others said, but lots of big pass plays given the weather, and several others that almost connected.

    #133502

    Greywolf
    Participant

    I think the impact of the spread/hurry up teams are greatly exaggerated. For every Oregon under Chip Kelly, there are a half dozen Syracuses under Dino Babers. Yeah, they play fast but they shoot themselves in the foot as often as they do something good with their tempo, and that tempo on offense leaves their defense dead tired. A lot of those tempo teams end up giving up lots and lots of points. One could argue it is due to more possessions and plays, but their per play and per possession defensive stats are pretty bad.

    Rye, The “hurry up” offense doesn’t mean you necessarily have to snap the ball “in a hurry.” but that you hurry to the LOS and be ready to snap the ball. This prevents defenses from substituting in situational players. We do it all the time as do some other teams.

    The defensive personnel are on the field without enough time to sub. Good, well coached defenses switch alignments, etc., but the OC and QB know the personnel they have to work against.

    There are advantages to the quick snap with the hurry up offense that have nothing to do with getting in a lot of plays or tiring the other team. Defenses have to make their coverage calls and any line or blitz packages without a lot of time to communicate these sets and schemes. We all have seen blown coverages by good football teams caused by confusion about who was covering what both with passes and runs.

    Before we discard the 4-2-5 notice that Green Bay is in essense using the basic concept of the 4-2-5 with Josh Jones as the hybrid defender. That won’t last forever. Some smart OC will figure out how to negate that.

    #133503

    Greywolf
    Participant

    Grey,
    Thanks for the posts. I enjoyed reading them.
    I love your optimism and really hope you are right about DD.

    I write for my own enjoyment. Nice to know somebody reads them.

    For the record my main complaint about You…

    I hope this is a typo. 😉

    #133531

    ryebread
    Participant

    Rye, The “hurry up” offense doesn’t mean you necessarily have to snap the ball “in a hurry.” but that you hurry to the LOS and be ready to snap the ball. This prevents defenses from substituting in situational players. We do it all the time as do some other teams.

    The defensive personnel are on the field without enough time to sub. Good, well coached defenses switch alignments, etc., but the OC and QB know the personnel they have to work against.

    Yep. I totally get this. Line up fast, freeze the personnel and work a match up advantage. I’ve not charted how many personnel substitutions actually happen on a play by play basis in college football. My sense looking at snaps played charts is that there is a lot less substitution for the middling BCS team than many think, but I could be wrong. I think most of the rotation happens on the DL.

    It also works both ways. The offense is also equally locked into their personnel. Have the 4 WR set in and it’s 3rd and 2, then is the call to throw it, run the QB and risk injury? Do it wrong and you’ve got a quick 3 and out, which a LOT of these up tempo teams end up with. It only takes a couple of 3 and outs for a high tempo team to get off track and get blown out, particularly if they’re putting their tired defense back out there.

    Also if that WR runs a 30 yard route and the has to sprint back to line up fast, then they’re gassed as well. Teams will end up pausing on the line, and everyone kind of gets a little breather. I get that the quick line up is about the personnel groups, but people tend to think that the defensive guys are the only ones impacted.

    I like getting to the line quickly as a strategy for the weaker team. In theory the weaker team plays their 1s a larger percentage of the game, and the deeper team does more rotation. It’s why Saban’s Alabama guys fake injuries, stall, he complains, etc.. It allows for them to sub and go from player 1A to player 1B who is fresh and there’s very little drop off there. The weaker team has to play their 1s every play anyways because when the 2s go in, they’re in even more trouble. May as well play the line up trick to stop the deeper/better team from subbing. The 1s on offense had better be well conditioned though.

    #133537

    Greywolf
    Participant

    It also works both ways. The offense is also equally locked into their personnel. Have the 4 WR set in and it’s 3rd and 2, then is the call to throw it, run the QB and risk injury? Do it wrong and you’ve got a quick 3 and out, which a LOT of these up tempo teams end up with. It only takes a couple of 3 and outs for a high tempo team to get off track and get blown out, particularly if they’re putting their tired defense back out there.

    What you say is true IF a JaySam is not one of your WR’s. Well prepared teams don’t get caught in situations you describe.

    When your offense hurries to the line as we talked about and then forces the defense to play with the personnel grouping on the field, that isn’t a quick 3 and out. The full amount of time is used the same as if they huddled, called a play and ran a play. 3 and outs are not caused by hurry up offenses.

    Regarding the WR who ran 30 yards down field, we can bring in a group of WRs who are very good. Will the defense substitute their DB and put in a depth chart sub for their starting corner. It’s a chess game and smarter OC’s like Drinkwitz put us at an advantage IMO.

    #133539

    ryebread
    Participant

    I’m not as impressed with Drink as many are. He is too pass happy for my liking and our red zone offense leaves a whole lot to be desired. Canada has a myriad of issues, but he called a better game and did it with lesser personnel and a significantly worse OL.

    #133540

    YogiNC
    Participant

    Canada has a myriad of issues

    Therein was the problem, as other teams found out. One thing I thought was Drink’s problem last year was he didn’t use Jaysam as efficiently as he could have. Dayes presence in the previous season also played into that. Nines was good but Dayes was much, much better and that allowed Jaysam to be a bigger threat since the defense had to keep an eagle eye on Dayes also. The obvious things that cause fits for a defense is more diverse weapons on offense (rules of war).

    Smarter than the average bear

    #133541

    ryebread
    Participant

    One thing I thought was Drink’s problem last year was he didn’t use Jaysam as efficiently as he could have.

    Yogi: I agree with your post. JSam is a once a decade player for a school like NC State, and kudos for the staff in his recruitment (guy was massively productive in high school). I’m not really sure Drink quite knew what to do with him last year. It may have been that JSam was just hurt much of the year so we got what we could (and he gave what he could). If that’s the case, then Drink did what he could and we’re off base.

    Canada was predictable in formation and motion, but he called a very balanced game. He put out some of the best run offenses I have seen in my lifetime at NC State, and he didn’t have “the hogs” on the OL that I think we’re building towards now. He had his weaknesses, and it was time for him to find his next pasture (and it is hard to argue that LSU isn’t a greener one), but on just calling a game with X’s and O’s, I liked it better than Drink.

    I think Drink is pass happy, but I also think he can develop a QB. That will help him recruit a QB. I’d be fine with that trade, but we’ve got to clean it up in the red zone. Right now I’m not convinced we can always run the ball when we want/have to/need to. If you can’t, it becomes tough to score inside the 20.

    One thing I do like about Drink is that he is young and will learn with experience. He also seems willing to learn and be a part of a team and culture. I am not sure that Canada was that open to input, or was that great of an ambassador for the program. It’s better for our long term trajectory if Drink can learn on the job, improve our run / red zone game and stays with us for a while.

    #133547

    Greywolf
    Participant

    Rye and Yogi,
    I have really enjoyed reading your discussion. Not many disagreements here but I do have a few comments.

    Regarding Drink being pass-happy, hard NOT to be pass-happy with Harmon, Louis, Meyers, Samuels, Hines, Emezie and Parham to throw to. Hines, Gallaspy and Jay-Sam were all banged up at times. I understand this staff isn’t inhibited about inputting in meetings. Ledford is the run game coordinator and Kitchings the RB coach. I wouldn’t put passing decisions all on Drinkwitz.

    Rye’s comment about Drink at the end of the post above says it all for me… young, willing to learn, willing to be a part of the culture, will be here for a while.

    You guys know I gotta say this: It’s all inside the culture that Doeren has created. Coaches jumping at a chance to coach here (Patrick, Henry and maybe even Drinkwitz) and coaches staying when they get here (McDonald, Kitchings, Barlow, and of course Faulkner). Cue up the “Nobody wants Hux” recording. LOL

    Somebody made a pretty disparaging remark about me if I thought snagging Roof was good. Ether of you guys got anything to say about Ted Roof and if he will be good for this coaching staff?

    #133548

    tractor57
    Participant

    The tell will come when DD has to replace his staff. Eventually that will happen as they move on – I’m glad they are here and the contributions they bring but as we know things will change good or bad. DD has done well by his staff but that will not be forever. At this point I’m happy with the program (note program and not a single season).

    #133549

    Greywolf
    Participant

    The tell will come when DD has to replace his staff. Eventually that will happen as they move on – I’m glad they are here and the contributions they bring but as we know things will change good or bad. DD has done well by his staff but that will not be forever. At this point I’m happy with the program (note program and not a single season).

    This program that you are happy with, what makes it that way? IOW what is currently good about the program and what would you change (program and not the team or individual coach or coaches} to make it better?

    #133550

    ryebread
    Participant

    Grey: Check earlier in the thread and you will see my thoughts on Roof. Solid hire. I think Roof + Hux will be better for both, much like Tenuta helped make Archer serviceable, and Archer probably balanced out “Rock” (as some GT fans called Tenuta).

    As for Drink being pass happy, his season as Boise’s OC was very telling. Go look at some box scores and watch some film. They lost a LOT of games (by their standards) that year and in the games they lost, they were very unbalanced (pass heavy). It’s not like they didn’t have the horses to run, as they clearly did (and went back to the next year). In NC State’s losses last year with Drink, we also weren’t balanced. There are clear trends.

    Drink is a disciple of Malzahn. I’ve seen him credit Gus many times. Gus is a pass first, take what the defense gives you, kind of guy. Stands to reason the padawan is as well.

    #133551

    Greywolf
    Participant

    Thanks Rye. I remember you being the one who favored Roof’s hire now.

    The tell will come when DD has to replace his staff. Eventually that will happen as they move on – I’m glad they are here and the contributions they bring but as we know things will change good or bad. DD has done well by his staff but that will not be forever.

    57, Staff replacement is not a 10 out 10 in kind of deal. DD has already had to “replace” 60% of his offensive staff and all are IMO upgrades. (replacements: McDonald, Ledford and Drinkwitz) You could say 80% since Kitchings left but chose to return.

    On the other side of the line DD has had to replace 75% of the staff. I’m not sure could upgrade our DL coach but we will know at the end of 2018 season if Patrick has is or not. Aaron Henry is not an upgrade for Clayton White but DD has hedged his bets by hiring Roof to coach safeties which I consider to be at a minimum an equal replacement and probably an upgrade.

    So what is different in Wolfpackland? For onething DD is all for the coaches having time to be with their families. He actually ran a coach out of the Murphy Center and told him to go home and spend time with his wife and kids. He was against the new recruiting period because the assistant could schedule vacations during that time.

    In contrast to Rye, I believe Dave and Hux together put the knew defense together. Contrary to many fans Hux is respected in the coaching ranks. If DD did not include his DC in the research, design and change to the 4-2-5, it was the dumbest CEO thing that DD has ever done.

    I bring this up again to illustrate the involvement the assistants have in the big picture — more than position coaches. Coaching is not a lot different from any other job in that the more the assistants have involvement in the entire process, the more job satisfaction.

    Considering DD success replacing staff so far, I’m going to put off worrying about that until he starts to fail to bring in good replacements.

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