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We were ahead at the half. CU abused WBS to start the second, we couldn’t score, and it was downhill from there. Gottfried threw darts.
Gottfried’s team aren’t ever going to be much better on defense than what you see. But the offense has dropped from a top-10 offense to 75-100…Throw in turnover problems, recipe for what we see.
^And agree on the WBS/Cat conundrum, but would only qualify part of that with, “the O runs better with him” against zone defenses. Against solid man teams like CU, UVA, UNC, Duke…we’re so limited on offense, we really need someone at the PG who can attack off the dribble and finish, not just distribute.
Contrarian that I am, think this one had little to do with the post-Cuse blues. Far from an aberration, this is consistent with what we’ve seen most of the year. It was clear early in the season that we were going to struggle on offense. The only surprise for me is that now we’re far better moving the ball and attacking the zone than we are against solid man-to-man teams, possibly because we’ve seen so much zone this year. We turned it over tonight too much. Giving up 70 to Clemson is inexcusable. Credit to CU also. Brownell found a few things that worked and stuck with them, especially early in the second half.
Rick, we were never having a discussion. You’re incapable. I learned that a long time ago. But since you insist on inaccurately characterizing what I’ve repeatedly said in plain English, and there is room for debate on this topic, I’ll say it again for about the 100th time: EVERY FACET OF GAME PLAY (INCLUDING OFFICIATING) IMPACTS GAME OUTCOMES. But 1 play is just that, 1 play. From now on, I pledge to never engage in officiating debate with Prick or anyone else. We can have a officiating topic for those with whistles up their arses, and another for folks who actually enjoy discussing game play and strategy.
I generally stick to discussing how the game was played, or might have been played, versus called because it’s what you can control as players and coaches. We got called for 18 fouls, about our game average. That said, there were some cheapo fouls, and we still played well enough to win. We’re not a great defensive team, although I’m pleased with Gott’s use of zone and man. Fans like to talk about bad calls. I get it. You rarely, if ever, hear about them when you win, either from fans, coaches, or players. You remember them when you lose.
Need more production out of the middle of the lineup, 3-5. I’d like to believe austin’s offensive production was effected by innings caught, but I’m not sure I agree. Anybody know he performed this summer?
Thoughts on the new sticks in the lineup?
^I can see the criticism of the second half whistle disparity. As said elsewhere, you can generally complain about the number of ticky tack fouls every single game. The call on the Warren play was correct. Nobody I stood beside watching that game–everyone of them Pack fans–thought it was a bad call at the time or after the replay. I still don’t. But I can point to many other questionable calls.
And tobacco, the suggestion that players and coaches could improve their play and execution doesn’t suggest that you need perfection in order to win and offset poor officiating. It does suggest against quality competition, particularly the #1 team on their court, you need to limit mistakes, play smart, and execute. One call is just that, one call.
^Statefans, it’s the same counterfactual logic employed by the zebra bashers. “If they would’ve made this call, not made these calls”.. yada…yada… My argument isn’t that officiating isn’t bad or inconsistent. I think the on-the-floor call on Warren was the correct one, as was the charge that Barber drew under a minute. Seemed like a slightly late whistle on the Warren foul and a bit of indecisiveness on the ref’s part, but the foul was on the floor. We didn’t get to the line because we didn’t really attack the zone and get to the rim in the second half. Check the shot chart. We settled for jumpshots. And we’re not a great defensive team. We always get a lot of ticky tack stuff called. Last night was not unusual in that regard.
Rick, I know it’s pointless but I’ll make it as plain as I can for ya since you just don’t get it. Officiating is bad across the landscape of college basketball, possibly worse than the level of play but I’m not sure. You watch enough, you know this. You control what you can. Of course officiating impacts games. As does every other facet of play. But I reject the assertion by you or anyone else that there is a grand conspiracy to screw poor little NC State, in this game or systematically. Syracuse played a lousy game by their standards, we played good enough to win but far from perfect, and we lost. Some calls that might have gone in our favor didn’t. For my observations about why some teams supposedly get more calls than others, see my comments above. And by all means, whine on.
Really well coached teams tend to get the benefit of calls. Best analogy I can think of is Greg Maddux. If you’re around the strike zone a lot, the plate gets bigger. Same concept with basketball. The Dukes, UNC’s, Syracuse’s might appear to get the benefit of more calls. Maybe they do. Just ain’t no conspiracy. The plate is a bit bigger for them, that’s all folks.
Rick, where in any post did I say there weren’t bad calls, or that Syracuse didn’t benefit from questionable calls? At the end of the day, I just don’t blame officials for game outcomes, whether it’s collectively or one pivotal play. If you want to analyze every call or non-call for each game or season and argue that NCSU disproportionately gets hosed, have at it.
THat’s what fans do. Blame officials. I get it. Players, at least the good ones, might bitch but they ultimately look inwardly and ask what they could’ve done to play better. Great coaches might moan and grown, but they, too, ask what they could’ve done to better prepare and coach their team. Lots of opinions about the continuation play with Warren. That’s cool. Having watched the entire replay now, Syracuse got the benefit of a few ticky tack fouls. We got a few. Maybe they benefitted disproportionately. I can see that argument. But it still doesn’t change the fact that we committed unforced errors, turned it over down the stretch, and didn’t get into Warren’s hands enough. I believe Warren was something like 7 or 12 or 8 or 12 in the second half. IN the last 5 minutes, I think he got two shots, one of which was the desperation heave. The other was off an ill advised pass from Lewis that caromed off the backboard.
And yes, you do have to play a nearly perfect game to beat the #1 team in the country on their home floor, regardless of good, average, or bad zebras in the building.
^I saw enough to know we turned it over too much coming down the stretch, took some quick and bad shots, and didn’t get it into the hands of our best scoring option. And the zebras didn’t impact that at all, smartass. As for the continuation call, I’m with cowdog. Thought it was the right call when it was made. Thought it was the right call after seeing the replay. Plenty of questionable calls in the game on both sides. That wasn’t one.
^Refs always call “crap calls.” It’s the nature of officiating. You can’t control it. Why you focus on what you can control, as in, not turning over the ball, making free throws, not giving up second chance points, etc, and taking quality shots. The little things. Syracuse is damn good. They can afford to play poorly and still win with or without the benefit of bad or good officiating. We’re average. Not the first game we’ve thrown away this year.
Newlywed that I am, Valentine’s is a weekend event, and I didn’t see much of the game. Caught the end of the first half and the last few minutes of the second. Convenient bathroom breaks while at dinner. Bless my wife. She knew but didn’t say a word.
Needless to say, I was shocked as hell when I arrived at the bar and it was close. Credit to the team and staff for making it a game. If they’re mettle is that of a winner, and we’re truly improving, I think we bounce back and make a run. at the NCAA. Still have some games left to boost RPI and resume. The remaining games are all winnable. We could also drop every last one.
Suppose it comes from some hard lessons on the field and court, but I never blame officials. 10 turnovers against that zone isn’t bad, but the turnovers late killed us. Hell, I watched about 10 minutes, and they’re are plenty of other things to pick at besides a few questionable calls by the zebras. Bottom line, we let one slip away. That’s several this year we’ve let slip away, or had a chance to win, and didn’t. Now, must win at Clemson, VT, and at home BC and Miami; plus take either UNC at home or Pitt on the road. If we drop one of the first four, we need wins against UNC and Pitt to make a case for the NCAA tournament. I think we take Clemson, VT, BC, and Miami. Not sure if we get over the hump versus UNC or Pitt.
Count me among the VaWolf and Choppack camp. This team may not be terrible, but it’s a long way from good. GT and ND are not good basketball teams. That zone you saw on Sunday will get carved to pieces by good basketball teams. Gottfried needs great offense to offset poor defense. This team isn’t as skilled right now 1-5 on offense as his previous two. And I’m not sure he plays to its strength. They desperately need to play in transition more, which is dependent on getting stops and rebounding. Or they need to speed up the tempo with pressure, generate turnovers, or force teams to take quick, bad shots.
Its reasonable to hope this team improves. I just don’t feel like we’ve seen consistent improvement on offense or defense, and we’re midway through the season. The ACC is way down. Biggest positives so far: Dez Lee and Kyle Washington bust heir cans every night on both ends of the court, and Turner is reliable shooter, especially when he takes good shots within the flow of the offense.
Loved seeing some more zone today. Our problem is that our best 5 on offense just aren’t the best 5 defensively. Doesn’t matter if we’re in man or zone. From the start of the year, I thought the best 5 on offense would be Barber/Lewis, Lee, Turner, Warren, and one of the bigs. I loved seeing Lee and Turner on the court together with Warren and a big. That’s clearly our most consistent offense. Lee really rebounds well out of the 2 spot, reminds me of Bruce Dalrymple from GT years ago. But unfortunately, our other slots don’t rebound as well. In the zone today, rebounding nearly killed us. We got crushed on the boards. I love Washington’s energy in the zone on defense. But I just don’t think he’s solid enough in the middle of the zone. Big V is much better equipped right now.
Yikes…don’t know what happened, thought I had Bennett at 5. Would still put Laranaga and Dixon in front of him
An old timer MLB baseball scout told me many years ago that guys like Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine, both 2nd round MLB picks, would either be picked much later, or in the case of Maddux, possibly not at all these days. His point was that everybody went for the hard throwers, body types, stamina, and didn’t look at the nuances of pitching. Same is true of basketball. Everybody thinks because some 18 year old has 4-5 stars beside his name, he’s polished and a guarantee to dominate at the collegiate level, a sure 1st round NBA pick. The coaching is bad, the game is bad, the play is bad. Lots of reasons for it. But the best coaches still recruit guys who understand the nuances of the game, not only have the body types or athletic talent. They’re also great teachers.
Gottfried’s Alabama teams defenses ranked 68, 83, 79, 126, 126, 122, 98 from 2003-2009. This was the SEC. Scoring at least helps your defense get set, and he’s typically been better in that department. But when his teams don’t score, his teams are flat out bad because they simply don’t defend well enough to stay in games. After the Lowe years, I was happy to actually see our players take a few charges. But only a few. IT’s like watching the Red Sea part when the opposing team goes down the lane. Lots of watching in the half court, poor communication, poor fundamentals in general, not to mention lack of consistent effort on that end. Talibeard would’ve averaged 20+ rebounds a game last year if he’d have actually boxed somebody out. Gottfried needs a lot of pieces in place to be moderately successful. Now, he’s facing an improved ACC with the addition of the old Big East schools. I just don’t ever see him being more middle of the conference here, with an occasional outlier of a team that’s horrendously bad or sweet-16ish good.
Look at Gottfried’s track record. No surprises anywhere. There were those that said the 2011 and 2012 were missing vital pieces. That was a laugher. Those teams downright underachieved.
Those teams ranked 33rd and 9th respectively in offensive efficiency. They had five skilled players at every position and could score from every place on the floor. Now, Gottfried has interior players and point guards with little experience, and no consistent shooters. This team turns it over more and is currently 95th in offensive efficiency, soon to drop some more.
The one constant is terrible defense. Rankings of 78 (2012), 112 (2013), and now 124 in 2014 just don’t cut it. I’ve said it time and time again, that run in 2011 was keyed by much improved defense, and we still were an average to below average defensive team.
Face it, Gottfried won at Murray State against average competition, he joined a very mediocre SEC, and excelled for a few years, only to be exposed in key games and NCAA competition for his weaknesses as a coach. He walked into a lineup that 99% of NCAA coaches would have dreamed about coaching. He underachieved then. He underachieves now. Only because the depths of this program had sunk so low during the Robinson, Sendek, and Lowe eras were we thrilled to watch two straight NCAA births. I had no misconceptions that we’d be a good team this year. I thought possibly, we could be a .500 team in conference, but after seeing this team early, I thought that would be a leap. We may very well be closer to .500 overall by year’s end, if that.
Too much Barber criticism. The kid has been one of the few bright spots on the team. Inconsistent, yes, and at times out of control, but the alternative simply hasn’t been better. Not even close. Granted, I’ll agree that Lewis managed the offense well in the first half against WFU. At times this season, he’s provided a calming influence. But by and large, he hasn’t consistently given you as much as Barber. The offense has been equally stagnant, sometimes far more so, with Lewis in the game. Barber’s outside shot, though not a strength, doesn’t look that bad either. He’s nearly 30% from three on the year, only taken 29, and better than Lee, Lewis, and Buckets. I’d prefer he shoot it more. Without him, we’re probably .500 or worse.
I’ve only been critical of his team’s defensive play, questionable substitution patterns, and inconsistent effort and mental lapses, all the while recognizing that he’s better than anything we’ve had in 20+ years. But I’ll go on record saying that I think Gottfried is a shyster, a folksy two-bit hustler who doesn’t really have the drive anymore, and doesn’t really appear capable of critiquing himself as a coach. What happened to all he supposedly learned while away from the game? Win or lose, I don’t like him.
