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extreme social conservatives == …ists of all colors
I actually don’t believe that.
Regarding the hate crime spike – that’s absolutely something to keep an eye on. A lot of what I am seeing here in the news is unsubstantiated and cannot be substantiated, and some of it has already been proven to be untrue.
Still, I am watching it. I don’t want to live in a country ruled by bullies on any side of the aisle. (And they exist on both sides, some of them are commissioners of the NBA, NCAa and the ACC.
And this is also why media bias is so harmful and dangerous. Living here in North Carolina – I can tell you that the way the media has handled the bathroom issue and the legislature in general, is borderline maliciously partisan. It is literally so bad, I have a hard time believing anything that can’t be substantiated
Now, at a time when they need to be believable, there no more than someone who has lied to me several times on the past…they may be telling the truth , but I have zero confidence in them.
I may not agree with everyone….but am proud that we WP’ers seem to have the intelligence to “READ and THINK” … THAT was a COMPLIMENT….I also have a better understanding of where folks are coming from…and I respect that….and hope that they, rhetorically, feel the same way as I do.
B’rer ‘Roo, et al…
Feeling the same way and thinking the same way are not always the same thing…
We can disagree and still like each other…I’d like to sum it up this way…
“It’s the grace and courtesy that only come with age”
and it’s most always what happens when diverse and mature people take the time to get to “know each other”.
It’s almost always good… even when the outcome is not what one wants.
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!shut down Planned Parenthood which helped set off an HIV outbreak
I am sure there is another side to this story but even if it is true how is it Pence’s fault people are screwing like cats in heat? Misplaced blame is a hallmark of the left.
Rick, there is another side to this story. You and perhaps many other folks assume that HIV is primarily a sexually transmitted disease (thus it’s the fault of all those sinners screwing in Indiana.) When Gov. Pence and the state legislature reduced Indiana’s health care expenditures, they effectively shut down Planned Parenthood’s operations in Scott county. Yay for the conservatives. Unfortunately, there was an unintended consequence to this socially conservative victory. Planned Parenthood was the only provider of HIV testing in all of a particular Indiana county (Scott Co.) This resulted in a public health blackout regarding the recognition of the spread of drug use related HIV and of course sexually transmitted HIV. That lack of available testing and consequently no data, resulted in an explosion of costs in the acute care of HIV cases in that county and across the state of Indian as other care facilities became involved in the care of the growing HIV infected population. That created skyrocketing healthcare costs for the state. All that was in the name of social and fiscal conservativism. Sometimes little victories lead to great losses.
Thank you for the information. I still don’t know the whole story (i.e. why they cancelled PP) but I don’t see how you can blame Pence for other people’s actions. I was raised that actions have consequences. When I make a mistake I don’t blame other people. It seems society is slowly changing where everyone wants to blame others instead of taking responsibility.Does it suck that people caught HIV? Absolutely. Does it suck that health care costs skyrocketed? For sure. Could it have been avoided? Yes (I bet you and I differ on how it could be avoided). But is it Pence’s fault? No it’s the fault of the people that do risky activities. I guess we will not see eye to eye on this. Maybe its generational.
extreme social conservatives == …ists of all colors
Heart of the problem. One side thinks the other is a bunch of “ists”. The other side is sick of being called an “ist”.
BLACKLIST RULES! Roo, we’re gonna have to get together sometime and have a cold one. I bet you’d like that book Tender Warrior, it is probably right up your alley. More than once in reading it I’ve become very uncomfortable in “where I sit” if that makes sense.
Smarter than the average bear
Conservatism is and was stuck and modern liberalism has run amok. Hence the result.
As said previously, I have very little confidence that our country, collectively, will be in a better situation four years from now. I’m not one of the loonies about to jump off the ledge over Trump’s election; similarly, though I despise Clinton, I wouldn’t have jumped off the ledge had she been elected. My two hopes are that the country isn’t more divided and facing more problems four years from now, and that there’s a political realignment. Neither of the two parties own my allegiance anymore, and the third party quacks are equally as incapable.
Yogi’s comments on HB2 were factual….and also reflect a diverse position. I assume that all know the history of Charlotte’s ill advised City Council and Mayor’s actions. Charlotte has borne the brunt of the rebellion. My son, of the well informed and high intellect “Dark Side” of the political spectrum was here this past weekend.
He and I debated some issues. What he came away with was that Charlotte had actually done a disservice to Carborro and Chapel Hill and maybe Greensboro. They had passed a “watered” down version of the infamous Houston Ordinance. I trust that folks here understand that it was soundly trounced by the electorate when the citizens rebelled and it was put on the ballot….67% or so.
YET, the “Gods” of Paypal (still doing business in 20+ countries where homosexuality is a crime punishable by DEATH), the NBA (Houston Rockets NOT told to change….remember the NFL commissioner is threatening the Redskins over their NAME), the NCAA….who SILL have several National Competitions scheduled for HOUSTON….that SAME NCAA that did NOT pull the Final Four….the list could go on.
The voters barely moved the needle on the NC GA. SO, the GA, which passed the law because the VOTERS from Charlotte and their constituency from the surrounding counties OBJECTED. WOW….what a diverse population we have. FLUSH Pat was literally a victim of the perfect storm. The Miscreants on Jones Street (or the Champion depending on your viewpoint) were NOT punished. Had HB2 Pat VETOED the bill….Political Suicide…..When he SIGNED HB2 and even expressed doubts and concerns….he was signing his own EXECUTION order.
Pat, from a Governor’s Impact should be judged far better than Mikey and Bev. He did more to return NC to fiscal reality than any one has in several years. We also seem to be creating jobs. Folks STILL want to come here.
SO, what will come of all this…? Charlotte will AMMEND or water down THEIR ordinance….keeping it in line with UNC-CH standards….or we will see a MAJOR Infrastructure Expenditure all over NC as we will create separate TG facilities.
Nationally, the DOJ will “revise” the “Executive Order” on TG. THAT was strictly a political move to try to get NC in the BLUE column for president and to chase OUT the dastardly dumb dumbs in the GA. Opps….Mistake. NEITHER happened…
Old Roy will be totally ineffective….save his power to recreate the inept and partisan Democratic machine that got us to where we are. BUT, with 5 critical positions (Labor, Treasurer, Insurance, Public Instruction, Agriculture) in the hands of DULY ELECTED officials, the Repubs have a 5-3 advantage (Auditor, AG and SoS are Dem). Quite a shift….
NOT what the Administration and the DNC and the Rev Bully Barber wanted.
It WILL be interesting….based on the majority that voted and HOW they voted to see if Rev BB continues to flaunt this. Charlotte is HURTING. Charlotte brought all of this on NC. Roy can wage a Twitter Tirade about it all he wants….but he has to tell the Mayor & CC in Charlotte to “back off”, because until they water down the Houston Ordinance, the GA ain’t budging…
NC finally figured that out….and all the lampooning just added to political ridicule.
NOW, some may take a loftier view…..lest I get accused of being some IST or IC, I have never EVER been called a Homophobic..
my mistake guys…
instead of saying…
extreme social conservatives == …ists of all colors
I should have said…
…ists of all colors == ultra-extreme social conservatives
I was really just trying not to say out loud “radical neo-nazi white supremacists”…
:>}
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Reports of children and adults being beaten and threatened for supporting Trump. I think it is wise to keep an eye on hate crimes.
shut down Planned Parenthood which helped set off an HIV outbreak
I am sure there is another side to this story but even if it is true how is it Pence’s fault people are screwing like cats in heat? Misplaced blame is a hallmark of the left.
Rick, there is another side to this story. You and perhaps many other folks assume that HIV is primarily a sexually transmitted disease (thus it’s the fault of all those sinners screwing in Indiana.) When Gov. Pence and the state legislature reduced Indiana’s health care expenditures, they effectively shut down Planned Parenthood’s operations in Scott county. Yay for the conservatives. Unfortunately, there was an unintended consequence to this socially conservative victory. Planned Parenthood was the only provider of HIV testing in all of a particular Indiana county (Scott Co.) This resulted in a public health blackout regarding the recognition of the spread of drug use related HIV and of course sexually transmitted HIV. That lack of available testing and consequently no data, resulted in an explosion of costs in the acute care of HIV cases in that county and across the state of Indian as other care facilities became involved in the care of the growing HIV infected population. That created skyrocketing healthcare costs for the state. All that was in the name of social and fiscal conservativism. Sometimes little victories lead to great losses.
Thank you for the information. I still don’t know the whole story (i.e. why they cancelled PP) but I don’t see how you can blame Pence for other people’s actions. I was raised that actions have consequences. When I make a mistake I don’t blame other people. It seems society is slowly changing where everyone wants to blame others instead of taking responsibility.Does it suck that people caught HIV? Absolutely. Does it suck that health care costs skyrocketed? For sure. Could it have been avoided? Yes (I bet you and I differ on how it could be avoided). But is it Pence’s fault? No it’s the fault of the people that do risky activities. I guess we will not see eye to eye on this. Maybe its generational.
Rick, I have no qualms about assigning personal responsibility to the folks who get HIV or get high using shared needles and become infected with HIV from those dirty needles. I suppose we can blame most of the world’s ills on a lack of personal responsibility. However, regarding the overall care of our citizenry, I suppose we have to choose as a society what we are willing to tolerate socially and fiscally. Our society has to make a choice on what it will do for the folks who are poor, uneducated, ill-advised, smart but making poor choices, or unlucky in circumstances. Do we treat all of them as pariahs and ignore them until they die? Do we jail them for not conforming to the ideals of our society? Do we provide some basic services like a social safety net of some sort? Does any of this fit what we want our country to be? I personally think we are better people than we have been advertised to be and we have proof of this written into our constitution and its preamble. That still leaves open the question of how do we take care of our citizens? I prefer to be hopeful that the unfortunate among us can rely on an established and reasonable level of care offered by our local and federal governments that “promote(s) the general welfare” of our citizens.
I’m going to close with this post and bow out because there are many real life things that need attention. Just some quick points:
– Don’t view myself as 1%er. Thus why I said the point that I might be defined that way. Some would say I am. I would argue that if you looked at my home, vehicle, clothes, diet, hobbies, work hours, having kids in public school, etc., I’m much more middle class. It’s just really expensive where I live so the salaries “look” high. In reality, the buying power that my wife and I collectively have (both working) is lower than I had when I lived in Raleigh (with just my income). If that’s 1% then so be it. If I pay more taxes as a result, so be it.
– Strongly for environmental protection. I was going to amend my original post to add that in, but the edit button wasn’t working.
– See sustainable energy as a huge issue facing America (top 4 with the debt, a national water movement infrastructure, and educating the next generation). I think the anchor of our energy policy should be nuclear, solar, wind and hydro. I recognize all have their own considerable environmental concerns and some may actually be worse than fossil fuels, but I think they’re the right approaches and right messages. I’ll admit my affinity for nuclear is linked to those in the industry (regulatory) who have convinced me. There are real draw backs to solar, wind and hydro, but I’m still for having a solar panel on the top of every house, business and being the roof of every car. It’s out there for “free.” We just need to harvest it and we need our best minds focusing on doing that in an environmentally safe way. The same goes for wind and hydro. Oh yeah, all roofs need to be white (or a light shade) in certain regions and black (and a dark shade) in others. We shouldn’t be tearing down mountains or polluting our watershed to get some cheap fossil fuels.
– On the debt, the only way to solve it is to raise taxes while cutting spending. The problem I see is that neither side really wants to make those hard decisions (and both of those can be very tough sells).
– I voted in my local elections to raise taxes and voted for taxes that will impact me more than those with lower incomes. Ironically I might benefit from GOP tax cuts, but I don’t think the country wins. I think the GW Bush tax cuts were one of the worst things his administration did. If someone is serious about dealing with the debt, they’re not cutting taxes. They’re cutting out loopholes and write offs and looking at the corporate tax structure to raise the tax base.
– On the spending side, it is going to be painful to do what I feel must be done. NC made some tough choices. I just ask that choices be looked at holistically with ripple impact analyzed. Services that are preventative and avoid costs down the road need to be prioritized. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and I see that every single day in my job. Money should be spent on public works type projects long before it is spent on things like the military or hand outs.
– I tend to be like Rick mentioned earlier in the thread. I think the government works best when NO party has things lined up. A little gridlock forces compromise which is the foundation of our system. I’d be as wary of the Dems lining things up as I am of the GOP’s current situation.
– I don’t think that NC has been run that well at the state level for a long time, regardless of which party has run it. It’s been filled with corruption and wasteful spending, but I tend to think those are things that come with governments. Some things have been done well because the population has increased, but there are some consistently poor things like education and significant gaps between the haves and have nots that have been true since my childhood. There’s also been constant friction between the state government, Charlotte and Wake County, as well as a disconnect with some of the poorest areas at least as long as I can remember. Time and again the state has tried to flex its muscle with respect to Charlotte and Wake county, and it has always seemed to me to be a bit of a proxy battle where the rural areas are trying to get back at the cities who “are too big for their britches.”
– Oh yeah, the hearth of my family is actually in rural, poor, eastern NC. I’m not some Charlotte Providence/Latin kid with this opinion.
– I’d imagine that we’d get along swimmingly if we all got together and had a few beers. We may not have voted the same way, or have exactly the same view on how to get there, but I think we all want what is best for the country.
– To that point, I think we all want the best from the Trump administration. Here’s to hoping that we’re better off four years from now collectively than we are today.Oh yeah, and Go Pack!
radical neo-nazi white supremacists
THAT is a scary bunch.
Growing up in the deep south I was exposed to the KKK. Even at a very young age I could not bring myself to see their purpose. My grandparents raised me and my grandfather had several blacks who worked for him. Never once did I see him treat them badly or allow others to do so. I was probably one of the few kids who had black friends long before school integration in 1970. The were the children of his employees and I did see the pain of their lives as blacks. I knew all too well the “separate but equal” mantra and knew it wasn’t equal. As another point in my life I have a cousin who has been homosexual since we were young kids. We’ve been friends forever and what he is is not as important to me as who he is. That being said I have never been an “ist” that I know of. My grandparents were tough, and always expected me to do what is “right”, and the older I got the the more I was expected to figure that out on my own, and that there was always a price to pay if I made the wrong choice. I am aware that my views of what is right do not coincide with others but I am a product of my grandparents and I always thought they were pretty good folks. I did not protest in the 60s/70s and felt those who were destructive were wrong. To me they are as much of a menace as the KKK. Neither far right or left serves the needs of the many.Smarter than the average bear
^My grandfather and Yogi’s grandpa were neighbors…
I didn’t ‘no nuttin’ ’bout seggration until I was ’bout 10 yrs old…
I thought the reason the black children my age went to their schools was ’cause they were closer to their homes…
One saturday summer night when I was ’bout 14 – 1968 or 69… Granddaddy and I went for a ride in the truck after dark… which was a rare thing to do at night… he said he wanted to show me something…
We went up the road ’bout 5 miles, came to a big field with a bunch of pickup trucks and folks standing out in the field.
I watched the cross burn… then we drove on home.
He nor I ever GOTT out of his pickup truck.#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!I realize that I lived in a sheltered world. Raised outside the Football (2A) capital of NC. There were separate schools….that did not change until after I left and headed to NCSU.
Interesting thing, history, if you can find it before someone rewrites it.
like leaving our the FIRST black Supreme Court Justice from the new billion dollar Black History Museum….but finding a prominent place for the person that testified against him. Coincidentally, the lead Senator in the hearings had two brothers. One was President. One was the USAG. Funny thing…they got some guy named Hoover to keep tabs on a Doctor from Atlanta. And they released all sorts of “Wikileaks” about him….NONE too flattering. Same Senator, as well as older President brother, made WJC’s skirt chasing look like a preschool flirtation.Some folks do NOT remember that it was Isenhower that brought in the 101st Airborne (Ugly folks to tangle with) and then nationalized or federalized the Arkansas National Guard (violating States Rights). He used them to make sure that a few minority students could safely attend Little Rock HS. Remember the political affiliation of George Wallace?
Folks still quote the revered Senator Byrd, a HIGH KKK Leader (I guess his strengths as a political leader and someone that could be trusted were first recognized in that role….despite his sheets). It was the SAME Senator Byrd that prayed to God and voted NOT to punish the Impeached WJC by removing him from office. I guess the option of having Al Gore as our president helped sway that. Like James Comey, he SURE messed up the polls and his vote and reputation changed the Press’s already reported outcome.
Seems to be a common thread here….
My late FIL, whom I consider as much as a father in many cases, as my own beloved dad, also had black tenants on his tobacco and dairy farm. My wife played with their kids. My wife found out about segregation when she started in 4H and there were SEPARATE 4H Congresses….BOTH held in William Neal Reynolds.
My parents were not liberals…but they were NOT race haters….nor were any of their family. They were, by culture, segregated….but not violent and did not espouse hatred.
The KKK never was entwined in my life. NOW, I did (and still do) have some “rounders” as relatives in Catawba County. Many country songs have been written about their antics and other vices. I can name at least ONE Different relative for every one of Conway Twitty’s hits…..and there were a LOT of them.
One of them was a barroom brawler buddy of a guy that had a kid that I played HS football with. The kid played for NCSU for a while. Later on, I met him at an autograph session. I asked the NCSU Defensive Tackle if he had a relative by a certain name….it just so happened that the NCSU NFL Draft pick’s first initials were the SAME as my buddies father. He said, he’s right there behind you. My ex HS classmate’s father and my uncle got into more scrapes that JR and Bobby did. My uncle told me that when the fight broke out, pick the side that his buddy, the NCSU’s Great Grandfather was on because you did NOT want to fight him. The NCSU FB player was picked by some NW team and converted to a Guard and protects a BLACK QB that we watched a lot…
I also traveled extensively in the south….the south is not NEAR as bad as it was when I was growing up or when I was in Raleigh. YES, some say that the reason WHY there is no Confederate War Memorial in Jackson, NC….the ONLY county seat in NC without such….is that there is still fighting in the Potecasi swamp. Deer hunted there alot, but never heard Dixie being played at night or cannon fire.
BUT, I do resent not being able to singe Dixie. Elvis in his American Tiology will bring tears to your eyes. The “intolerance” in banning the Confederate (never had a license plate with that) is sheer RACISM. If we banned the Black Power Salute or called out the BLM folks, then I would totally concur with the “racial cleansing”. Let me know when THAT happens,
Suck it UP, Buttercup..(er, Snowflakes)
Hey now, I was born off Providence and my kids swim at Latin. They burned a cross in a field on Carmel Road not far from the club in the early 70s very close to my friend’s house who I’ve known for 40 years to date.
The last time I crunched the numbers we would have to reduce every program across the board by 40% just to break even on an annual basis. I would fill congress with CPAs and tell them to start gutting pigs. Take 25 years and eliminate the national debt in the least painful way possible knowing it will be very painful. I get tired of both parties and their bs. We aren’t going to economically grow our way out of this mess. How can we help any of our citizens with a debt knife at our throats. The politicians will run this train right off the bridge.
Fastback: I’ve got nothing against Providence/Latin kids. Some of my family members went there. I’m just providing balance that I’m far from a silver spooner or living a lifestyle that is completely disconnected from the poor, rural position. I spent week days in Raleigh and the RTP and then weekends down east, so I saw both sides.
I agree with your second point very much. The only way to fix this is to make some significant, serious and hard budget cuts. I doubt that’s going to happen. Neither party has the stomach to do it, nor are they incentivised to do so.
The same applies to Electoral College reform. Those that just won have no desire to change a system they think they’ve figured out. It did work for a long time, but 2 out of 5 elections where it failed isn’t good. Something’s clearly not right there. There are several potential solutions (ditching it completely, doing away with winner take all, redoing the allocation per state), but I suspect nothing will be done.
Given I have zero faith in the government and politicians to fix any of the actual problems, I tend to focus on the social ones. That’s where the law, judges, etc. does end up being affected.
Rick, 1) I have no qualms about assigning personal responsibility to the folks who get HIV or get high using shared needles and become infected with HIV from those dirty needles. I suppose we can blame most of the world’s ills on a lack of personal responsibility. However, regarding the overall care of our citizenry, 2) I suppose we have to choose as a society what we are willing to tolerate socially and fiscally. Our society has to make a choice on what it will do for the folks who are poor, uneducated, ill-advised, smart but making poor choices, or unlucky in circumstances. 3) Do we treat all of them as pariahs and ignore them until they die? Do we jail them for not conforming to the ideals of our society? Do we provide some basic services like a social safety net of some sort? Does any of this fit what we want our country to be? 4) I personally think we are better people than we have been advertised to be and we have proof of this written into our constitution and its preamble. 5) That still leaves open the question of how do we take care of our citizens? I prefer to be hopeful that the unfortunate among us can rely on an established and reasonable level of care offered by our local and federal governments that “promote(s) the general welfare” of our citizens
Great response. Let me see if I can do it any justice.
1) I was not trying to state that we should not try to help other people. IMO we as a society should be doing more so that the government has to do less (or maybe even the government should do less so that the people can do more). I was specifically responding to blaming a much more nuanced problem (as you have very aptly described) solely on Pence.
2) I don’t know the motivation for closing PP so it is hard for me to say it was a bad choice. The choice obviously had some bad ramifications but that, in and of itself, does not make it a bad decision. I also don’t know what other services were available up there. Nonetheless, I agree as a society we should help those that want help and should offer people help when they need it and IMO it should be less government and more privately driven.
3) I don’t feel the should be a “pariah” but society has certain norms and expectations. What is the balance between helping someone and enabling their problems? It is not a simple problem and is more of a case by case basis than anything.
4) I agree we are better. Even the poor in this country live a life many other countries envy.
5) Here I differ. I think relying on the government to help people makes them less likely and able to actually help someone. I don’t feel we should count on the government for many things. It doesn’t mean I don’t care. It just means I don’t think its the governments responsibility.my mistake guys…
instead of saying…
extreme social conservatives == …ists of all colors
I should have said…
…ists of all colors == ultra-extreme social conservatives
I was really just trying not to say out loud “radical neo-nazi white supremacists”…
:>}
No problem, it seemed out of character but makes sense once you explained what you were thinking.
I will say this though (not implying you bill just in general). Just because that group are social conservatives doesn’t mean visa versa just as because the KKK likes Trump doesn’t mean Trump likes the KKK.
There has always been, in the words of Carl Degler, an “Other South.” This isn’t your racist, or indifferent, paternalistic, and conservative South. My white grandfather fought hard in the 1950s and 1960s for integration and desegregation in eastern NC. He faced social backlash among kin and friend alike, damage to business, and threats of physical violence, including bomb threats and cross burnings on his property. My mother recalls that time vividly. Any hint of racial pandering and nationalistic bombast, you lose my vote. Period.
I find the voter suppression efforts by the state Republican Party and persons and organizations aligned with it over the last few years despicable. And yes, I know firsthand that Jones Street was for years dominated by plenty of Democratic turds and crooks aplenty.
I generally agree with Rye but I don’t think Electoral College reform is needed. It works like it’s set up to work. Just as the Senate and House form a counterbalance, the College keeps metropolitan areas, or a small number of heavily populated states from determining election outcomes. Democrats lost this one because they nominated a loser candidate, and the Democratic Party is out of touch with working class voters. Globalization didn’t just happen; it’s been happening for several centuries, but it’s altering elections more now in this country than ever. To say this is the most divided our country has been is just plain nonsense, but if we don’t find some true statesmen and leaders, it’s going to get a whole lot worse.
Just because that group are social conservatives doesn’t mean visa versa just as because the KKK likes Trump doesn’t mean Trump likes the KKK.
…exactly!
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!There has always been, in the words of Carl Degler, an “Other South.” This isn’t your racist, or indifferent, paternalistic, and conservative South.
My grandpa was born in 1888…. died in 1978.
ya’ll think about that…He didn’t like FDR… never signed up for Social Security — remember, it was optional at the start…
His kids were more ‘liberal’ than he was…#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!I am for doing good to the poor, but…I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed…that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.
Ben Franklin240 year old wisdom from possibly the greatest statesman this country has ever known. His words are proof positive that soc ia lism has NEVER worked, NEVER. The root of the problem with so cial ism is it will always crumble under it’s own weight because eventually those supporting it will be outnumbered by those being supported, OR lives will become so mediocre that it’s not worth living (USSR / Europe).
Smarter than the average bear
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