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What is it about my reasoning that you disagree with? Explain to me your point of view.
Your reasoning makes perfect sense, it’s your conclusions I didn’t agree with. š
BTW Have you been following the NC State Football By The Numbers ā Post ODU Edition? Some good stuff buried in there.
If we canāt get pressure with the front four, then weāre going to have to try some different things, or live with teams just cruising down the field. We really need to get stops.
ryebread,
Likewise the respectful discussion is great.
Now to business. We have given up too much yardage and too many points but nobody has cruised down the field and IMNSHO nobody will. I assert we will put the correction in and it will make a difference.
Maybe we ARE in a manner of speaking trying different things, things you and I don’t see. I hope you don’t mean abandon what we have been working on since spring practice and start a bunch of blitzes and stunts. A very revealing comment was overheard, Doeren to Huxtable, at or near the half of the ODU game. Hux asked Doeren if there was anything else (adjustment, whatever) he wanted to try. Doeren said “Get them in the right technique.” As you know, ‘technique’ in that context is defensive coach-speak for how the D Linemen line up on the opposing linemen. Over simplified we are talking lining up on the left shoulder, nose on nose, and the right shoulder.
At this time we don’t know if adjustments and coaching will make the kind of difference we need. My understanding is we have gone from basically a nose on nose technique to a shoulder technique. Sounds simple but it’s not. One technique may different techniques and responsibilities than the other. Unless we are in the meetings and on the practice fields we will never know what’s really going on. If we want to be nationally relevant here, we have to train our guys in the most advanced techniques. (I hate it that technique has 2 entirely different meanings here.)
Often when switching from one skill technique to another, failure comes before success. Poor technique is usually easier to execute and the habits are hard to break. I had rather have our players experiencing some failure now and possess higher level technique later than have moderate success now and have a cap on our growth.
The hardest thing I’ve had to do with these guys is trust the coaches and listen to them and not myself. My football knowledge is not on the same scale with that of Doeren, Nielsen, etc.
1.21 Jigawatts,
I wish I knew how to give you a heads up that I was going to do a counterpoint type response.
You say, “Who knows what theyāll do against State but I have to base my reasoning on something and 2 games isnāt much, for both teams.” Well hell, there’s not much to base a counterpoint on either. š When I said ‘I donāt agree with some of your reasoning…’ I didn’t say you were wrong. Until we play a few games more games, how will we know either way?
I’m involved in a discussion with Ryebread, Tuffy2 and foose on the ODU stats thread. The counterpoints and differences in opinions stated enhance the whole conversation — actually being cause for deeper explanations of some great explanations of what may be going on with the Wolf (Wildcat) and more by foose. My intention here was to provide the another point of view possibly enrich the conversation in this thread.
If I misinterpreted or failed to take into account some point or points made, I apologize as I had no such intention. Otherwise, thank you again for your excellent preview of the USD game.
Greywolf
āKan a poon rash?ā
Why, yes. Under many conditions it most certainly kan.
Mr.DOG, I think you and I are thinking about the same ‘poon’ but I’m not sure about the others.
Thanks for the work on the preview. I don’t agree with some of your reasoning but hey, we don’t have to agree do we?
I think our road record before these coaches and huge number of sophs and frosh got here is really of no consequence to them. I can’t see Doeren wringing his hands saying, “Woe is me. Our road record sucks.” Just like our winning 5 in a row didn’t bother *nc.
I hope Taggart plays with 2 tight ends the whole game. Bring a crowd together at the line of scrimmage. Running lanes are far more available in the spread than in a tight formation.
I disagree with the Bulls having an advantage over our offense but like I said, so what that we disagree. Just because MD turned it over 6 times doesn’t mean we will.
Again thanks for the work and thought you put into this post.
This should be required reading before posting comments about NCSU offense.
3) Take advantage of the unprepared or inattentive.
If the defense isnāt paying attention, if the MLB or defensive signal caller isnāt too astute, if the defense is wearing down, a quick no-huddle into the wildcat with the QB spread wide can catch a defense unprepared and a quick gain can be made. This could be a quick call signaled in from the sidelines or maybe even called in the huddle before the previous play.
Or potentially, the defense is so caught up in adjusting to their wildcat responsibilities, they forget the basics. Imagine an OLB or CB quickly going through their mental rolodex of responsibilities as the offense lines up in wildcat. Heās transitioning from base offense to wildcat, and then the ball is snappedā¦ Then the defender is immediately faced with the single back and the motioning slot running an option run right at himā¦ in a fraction a second, heās thinking āoh @#!$t, do I have the āQBā or pitchman? In base, Iām supposed to have the QB, but this aināt base and that aināt their QBā¦ no wait, thatās the slot as the pitchman so that meansā¦ oh *@#!, there they goā¦ oops, sorry coachā One mistake -> BOOM, big play.Ever wonder how a big-time team’s defense could be so off in it’s coverage of a particular play? This is it.
I’d be lying if I said I understood what Mr. DOG is saying š but I think I understand what foose is saying, plays are not always run for the expected yardage. Some are run to gain knowledge of what the defense is going to do in various situations. We fans think we know what is the best call and get upset when Canada calls a different play. We would do well to try and understand what Canada is doing in lieu of criticizing what he does looking from our limited knowledge base. This is not your father’s Oldsmobile.
Canada is reportedly one of the brighter offensive minds in college football. Even his former Wisconsin boss now at Arkansas, HC Brett Bielema, didn’t understand what he was doing sometimes. There are 2 coaches we need to hold on to besides Doeren: Canada and Veldkampt. Those 3 are gems that big programs will covet as State becomes successful. Debbie, show ’em the money.
Tuffy2, your points will be more valid as time goes by. Right now, trust Canada to know what he is doing. foose is offering an outstanding interpretation. Mr. DOG is giving a precise, condensed version of the same. Of course he’s doing it in TheCOWDOGese. I’m just holding on trying to follow it. I’m already educated 3 or 4 years past my intelligence.
I just donāt see how a team without a dominating OL benefits from a formation that doesnāt even include its best player (which to me is JB) and tips that the play is always going to be a run. I think defenses like FSU, Louisville and Clemson are going to have a field day with it.
Ryebread, Thank you for the respectful discussion you are having with Mr.DOG and foose. Since you and I started this conversation, I hope you don’t object if I step in. I’m not going to repeat what I said in my previous post but it goes with what I have to say here.
Perhaps we ARE building a dominate OL. I have little evidence except I believe in our assistant coaches abilities AND the improvement from last year. Coach Veldkampt is an important piece of the equation. I assert (there I go again) that our new recruits will become the dominant OL we seek.
Let’s be real here about the defense knowing exactly what we are doing. Often defenses know the offense is going to run and can’t do a damn thing about it. Are we there yet? Hell, no. Are we building for it? I believe we are.
Now, do what Coach Valvano told Coach Esposito to do in ’83: “Think a good thought.” š
^<br>
Neither.They are setting the building blocks of playing the 42 as a base defense.
The blitzes,the twistsā¦<br>
soon come.Mr. DOG, foose:
I’d say we are and have been doing this with the offense as well. Yes/No? Not only do we have to do it with the players, I expect Doeren and Canada are doing it to a lessor degree with the coaches — both O & D. I didn’t understand what the hell Canada was doing half the time last year. In the context of developing and building the offense what he did and does now makes perfect sense.
I’ll stick my neck way out and say that Coach Huxtable is being trained too. I assert (doing that a lot here) that Doeren saw something in Huxtable that he liked far beyond his “brilliance” as a DC. Go back to the video of Hux talking to the players and you might see it. Doeren is the man behind the defensive schemes. We will be OK defensively.
In my heart of hearts I believe Canada and Doeren trust each other and what they are up to is building something that will be far more than a sniffer at FSU and Clemson’s coattails. It takes balls and belief to go about it they way they are. I’m listening to the players and they sound like the believe as well. Recruits are listening too.
Doeren will turn out to be the best Head Coach we have ever had here. Our day is coming.
^<br>
Neither.They are setting the building blocks of playing the 42 as a base defense.
The blitzes,the twistsā¦<br>
soon come.Mr. DOG, foose:
I’d say we are and have been doing this with the offense as well. Yes/No? Not only do we have to do it with the players, I expect Doeren and Canada are doing it to a lessor degree with the coaches — both O & D. I didn’t understand what the hell Canada was doing half the time last year. In the context of developing and building the offense what he does makes perfect sense.
I believe they had a 10 yrd. sweep out of it Sat. Jet sweepā¦from the Wildcat.
And another Wolfpack First Down. š
“bad stats against weak competition is pretty much always an indication that things are going to get ugly.”
It’s already ugly but it might be a little early to declare GSU and ODU weak. Hey, I like ugly wins. š
Wanna do something really cool? Have a 64-team ācollege NFLā with divisions and centralized scheduling. But also mix in the European soccer āpromotion and relegationā concept. In addition to the āgoodā 16-team playoff, you could have a ābadā bracket to determine who gets relegated.
promotion and relegation is makes the idea manageable. The down side is Swoffy would find a way for the holes to avoid relegation no matter what.
^
Me too.“I was hoping that we would attempt to bring pressure last week with some stunting or all-out blitzes to create more an element of surprise but I could see that also backfiring”
@BrickyardMayhem
Teams generally ranked below you go all out for a win. Verses GSU and ODU just being from a Power 5 conference puts a target on our back. Those guys spent time and energy on a game plan to take advantage of any weakness they saw or perceived in NC State. Beating a Power 5 team provides something for these 2 teams attempting to build a program and rise in the FBS division.That is not the case with us. In addition to winning we need to be using these games to get ready for the conference schedule. Learning to play defense in our base D is important in our overall success. We may or may not use special preparation such as blitz packages or other wrinkles when we play conference powers or rivals. But in these OOC games I expect Doeren is using the game to see what we need to work on (practice.)
Is it smart to risk a loss to GSU or ODU for longer term goals? I don’t know. Most of us would likely say “no.” My “long term strategy” is to trust Doeren and leave the game planning and game management up to him. I will likely spend my time and energy trying to see what Doeren is doing and NOT spend my time and energy second-guessing him. I think I will learn more and enjoy the season more being this way about State football.
My disagreements will be with other commenters, not with the professionals running the football program. In that context, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that we have no team speed on defense and that ODUs QB and RBs “beat us around the corner with ease.” ODU had an excellent game plan and executed it very well. They were helped in this execution by poor tackling in space. IMO our problem on the edges was the LB not doing their job, not the speed of our DE’s.
Doeren is using more and more young players. I expect strength issues to be our main concerns as the season plays out. Strength issues will be less and less an issue as each season as these younger players mature and we get in a personnel position to redshirt on defense.
BTW all this wasn’t in response to your (BrickyardMayhem) assertion. I just got started and couldn’t seem to stop — just like running my mouth sometimes. Maybe I’m hoping that Mr. DOG or foose will step in and straighten some of this out.
Did anyone else notice that the snaps on our missed field goal attempts have all been low? I think this is contributing to smooth operators difficulties so far.
Good observation. That could cause hesitation and ultimately push the kick off to the right. Very correctible.
Some of the stuff that has worked on offense (e.g. The Wildcat) isnāt going to work against good defenses.
Nothing is going to work against real good defenses but don’t sell this Wolf, as I believe it’s called, short.
Having Dayes or Thornton in jet sweep motion with the other handling the ball puts pressures on defenses that Sherriff didn’t cause. The defense having to honor the jet opens holes that weren’t there.Hell, I like ANYTHING that puts Thornton and Dayes in the same backfield. That’s smart football. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Nichols in on that play in the future. Already Samuels is positioned to run the jet. What did I expect. DD did say we were going to run the football. IMNSHO the spread is the best running formation going. You have to honor the pass and the D is spread out.
I also think blocking ability is going to effect playing time for WRs. WR who can effectively block on the edge will play.
Rick, I know you are having a little fun with your comment but I don’t think Coach DD is the “fire and brimstone” type – not with the players. The “fire and brimstone” preaching probably has been directed to his DC and his DL coach. There’s evidence of that already. I’d also monitor the D coaches to make sure THEY weren’t delivering any “fire and brimstone” type rants.
DD’s “get them in the right technique” comment was not said in a friendly way. To those who may not know what that means, Google it. It has to do with the way D linemen line up. For example, McKeever mentioned playing some “3 technique”. Bear Bryant is credited with the numbering of the gaps. On the left side, 7 comes before 6. Coach Johnson at GT said it was that way because Bear Bryant numbered it that way and nobody has the guts to change it. š
Did you ever dig that pony out of that ā-pile?? If so, what did you name it?? My horse is named GoForAngelDust, which is what Iāll be doing if we donāt go to a bowl game this year. 1/3 of the way there!!
I hoped to find a couple of ponies in there. I found one I named “Offense.” Still looking. Hope to find his brother, “Defense.”
Tackling fuel is exactly what itās all about.
Everyone has an opinion, forgive me for facts. The guys that missed Saturday, didnāt the pryor weekā¦I was surprised, too.
When you get to this level, coaches preach tackling, they donāt teach. As a rule, ya already know how.
Yeah, Mr. DOG, but how are we going to criticize the coaches abilities if we just say, ‘The coaches need to preach tackling.’?
When I saw Logan making positive comments about NC State, I almost crapped myself. That will to win he referred to is priceless. “When the going gets tough, the tough get going.”
Those freshman mistakes we are making now will become freshman big plays as the season progresses.
4 things I am not worried about finding out:
Is Jacoby a D1 QB? Yes
Is the team well conditioned? Yes
Does this team have character? Yes
Will this team get better as underclassmen get experience? Yes3 things I am concerned about:
Do we know if our OL is ‘Studly’?
Are our LB’s up to ACC standards?
Will our secondary jell?If I were an ODU coach or player, I would be worried that the Wolfpack defense is pissed off and wanted to take it out on ODU. More worried about that than the offense continuing to improve and we couldn’t stop ’em. And as Mr. DOG said, how much is the Pack going to keep under wraps?
