Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

Yes, that sucked. We went into Chapel Hill, played poorly to start…then clawed our way back to a small lead with all the momentum in the world. Then we crapped the bed down the stretch on the way to a blowout loss. A B+ effort by the Pack wins that game easily…and we didn’t even come close. One high profile individual didn’t even bring his D- game, or in all probability, multiple lobes of his brain.

But this team is still on track to go 11-7 and land no worse than a 6 seed. We CAN still be a very dangerous team in the post-season. This was ONE horrible game, at an inopportune time. After all, losing to a blue (especially light blue) hurts way worse than a clunker in Winston-Salem. We can’t let it beat us in Tallahassee and Atlanta, too.

Let’s also talk about coaching. Yes, I did (and still do) criticize his re-inserting Calvin, when the Purvis/Buckets/Zo/Woo/Talibeard five were clicking on all cylinders. But I do understand that it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. We absolutely NEED Calvin in Calvinistic form, or you can spend time outdoors with your family this March. He’s essential. You can’t lose him. You need him to feel he still has the coach’s and his teammates’ trust.

And let’s remember how to be nuanced. Mark Gottfried is not primarily an in-game strategist. He certainly has his moments (he was a maestro at Clemson, when so many players were out of synch), but his strengths are primarily as a recruiter, motivator, and mentor. ALMOST NOBODY is an expert in all phases. Roy Williams is VERY similar, though with a different temperament. He also gets critized sometimes as “sucking” in-game…when really, it’s just not his BEST skill. He’s a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer. Not saying MG is THAT…but he still has plenty of ceiling, and can succeed as who he is. Saying “he’s no better than Sidney Lowe on game day” and such…that’s just nonsense. We all take things too far in the heat of the moment, but I have seen that enough that I want to nip it in the bud.

Let this also be a general plea for moderation and critical thinking. It’s ok to criticize, and point out things that annoy us. Nobody should criticize other fans for not being 100% butterflies and sunshine. But it’s silly to go overboard in the other direction, and act like our basketball program and even this season are somehow lost cause dumpster fires. They’re not. Kids, I went to NC State from 1991-95. I know a dumpster fire when I see one.

Our coaches and players need to feel the sting of this rivalry loss, but they also need to learn from what happened and be better for the experience. It’s all still right in our hands.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

12-13 Basketball Big Four Rivals Mark Gottfried

171 Responses to Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

  1. Whiteshoes67 02/24/2013 at 12:13 PM #

    For me, I’ve come to expect the inconsistency from Leslie. Seen it too many times. I realize Brown had double digit assists yesterday, but he got outplayed by a freshman. Same thing happened against Smart early in the year and several other times in conference play. For me, we go as he goes, and when he doesn’t get around screens or stop the ball, and he doesn’t attack off the dribble enough in transition or the halfcourt, we struggle. Plenty of blame to go around yesterday, not just Leslie. We flat out laid an egg and were still in it with 6 minutes to go. Lost composure down the stretch, which has happened several times at the end of the game.

    Last year’s run at the end of the year was really attributable to ratcheting it up on the defensive end of the court and getting major contributions from Leslie. I don’t see the defense really improving significantly, and I’m skeptical about the other element. The NCAA will be all about matchups. If we face somebody who is athletic, tough defensively, and efficient on offense, I think we get bounced in round 1 or 2.

  2. wolfpup44 02/24/2013 at 12:17 PM #

    I went back and watched the hi lights of the 1979 state UNC game in Raleigh. An improbable comeback and a game we should have won, but once again our head case that day Clyde Austin got pick pocketed by a forward, Dudley Bradley to end the game on a slam dunk. I never felt we had a chance yesterday due to the overwhelming numbers and the UNC confidence. They don’t have head cases, just bad nights. Only coach with winning record against UNC……Case. Also on a coaching note, Sloan had 4 returning starters from the 74 team and we could not win the conference in 75. How did that happen? I see some talent with Warren, Purvs and Lewis, but not one and done talent. Purvis can be a liability some nights thinking he is back in ugh school. I have yet to see him either pass or convert on a 2+ on 1 break. He generally gets fouled and misses 2 FTs. So where does this leave us? We are in the top of the league in scoring, rebounding, assists, three point shooting, etc….but you cannot win when you turnover the ball, miss FTs late in the game and go for he steal with 5 seconds on the clock, foul shooters beyond he arc……..in the MD game if Leslie blocked out Len and not tried to go over his own man’s back for an impossible block we would have won. We find ways to lose. FTs at the end against UM. Big time players make big time plays. To win championships you must be able to win close games performing the basics. Big disappointment this year. Still high on Gott. He can recruit!

  3. Rick 02/24/2013 at 12:35 PM #

    “Folks on this board should start supporting our team if they are a true fans.”

    We are not going to question people’s fanhood.

  4. TheCOWDOG 02/24/2013 at 12:59 PM #

    Absolutey, Ricky.

    How ’bout intelligence? We can still question fan intelligence. Right?

    🙂

  5. highstick 02/24/2013 at 1:03 PM #

    I guess “true fans” have to be idiots? Wow!

    Anyway, my Red Blazer is now back in the closet on restriction. I did get to wear it twice this year, but is only worn when we have a winning streak going against the Holes in basketball(even though only 1).

    Hopefully we get another shot at them and all of our players show up with their hands up and heads screwed on straight…

  6. vtpackfan 02/24/2013 at 1:07 PM #

    I feel solid to the core about my loyalty to the Red and White to State. Haven’t ever thought or stated that this has been a “wasted opportunity” or a season.

    I like this team, a lot. Buckets is turning it on and TL should see many more minutes from here out ( Zo post game mentioned fatigue, Gott stated they been resting him at practice=TL gets more time on the floor or Gott just missed the boat on that-c’est le vie).

    Purvis seems the only question down the home stretch. What’s his role to be? He has somehow, someway managed to go from starter, to a core 6-7 man rotation guy, iinto Vandenburg status. I know freshman are in for a huge adjustment but his case just seems ultra unusual.

  7. swamppack 02/24/2013 at 1:14 PM #

    “The best friend you will ever have is one who will shoot it to you gun barrell staight”.
    The best fans are the ones on here shooting it gun barrell straight.
    Our Pack still has a losers mentality and excuses of WTNY and the year after that will do nothing but feed that sorry attitude.

  8. TOBtime 02/24/2013 at 1:21 PM #

    Thank you Rick. Nobody is questioning anyones “fanhood” by pointing out the obvious but there are some serious questions to be asked after yesterday.

    If Leslie won’t pass with 3 guys on him why is he on the court? Is it really bad of the other players to give him the ball knowing he might atttract attention? That’s stupid. Any good player attracts attention. What a good TEAM PLAYER does is recognize the mismatch and exploit it by getting his open teammates the ball. But lets play devils advocate and say there are chemistry issues between Leslie and Wood. Does that mean you can’t play defense Calvin? If so then Purvis, for all his freshman faults, is a much better defender and could probably use the time on the floor in preparation for next year.
    Rationalizing and justifying should only come from the hole.

  9. mak4dpak 02/24/2013 at 1:31 PM #

    Beat BC/GT/WF/FSU, and hopefully other teams will help us out with UVA and UNC, and we finish 3rd. But first and foremost win out, and play every game like it is our last. Watch our 6 points disappointment be a beast at home Wednesday. Perhaps we should hang a sign in the lockeroom when we are on the road, that says “Welcome to the PNC.”

  10. eas 02/24/2013 at 1:38 PM #

    I am certainly not throwing Gott under the bus. We are night and day better with this staff. That being said there 2 things that he can’t get right……

    1. Defense – it is horrible what else is there to say.

    2. Rotation – I don’t care how much I love Gott as a coach you HAVE to sit a player (CJ) that is clearly playing bad. CJ is super talented and can put points on the board when he is playing team ball. I haven’t seen him play team ball in MANY games. I am not throwing CJ under the bus but rather just stating the obvious…..he is killing us right now (maybe not always but right now). Team Chemistry without him in the line up is much better right now. Don’t know why but it is. You have too be a blind man not to see this.

    In addition, Tyler Lewis? He struggled for a few minutes on D yesterday but has CLEARLY shown he can play with much better as well as larger teams. Leave the kid in and let him run the dang offense!!!! His lack of playing time yesterday is a mystery.

    Purvis = Nervous. He is struggling right now.

    Again contrary to what some may think MANY of us are NOT throwing Gott or CJ under the bus. However, if Gott watches continues to watch the tape of these games he has to see CJ is just not in a good groove right now. Let him “rotate” off the bench a little more until he figures it out. And for goodness sakes let Purvis rotate on a 3 guard rotation (Lo, Lewis and Purvis). Lewis has to see more minutes to help Lo. Plus he (WBS) has shown he has no problem running the show. The team respects his play as well.

    Figure out a Defense or hire an assistant who can! Sit players that make turnovers and are lazy/ball hogs.

  11. ADVENTUROO 02/24/2013 at 2:28 PM #

    Not quite the perfunctory Jimmy V. 23 Hr recluse or self pity period, but close…..all comments are interesting…if not entertaining…..and that includes MOI!

    Beginning to think that Wood did state, without stating, what is going on. Couple that with Gott’s comments about Richard can’t get all the rebounds and using the “Calvin” word several times. This is NOT Gott’s style in interviews or opened ended questions. I sense a bit of coaching frustration.

    Can that be turned around before the next game? Probably not. I have (GOD FORBID….that anyone actually realized that) personality deficiencies that were identified when I was a tweeny. Try as I might, some things NEVER change. DNA, Environment, whatever has no impact.

    Leslie has some issues…..he SEEMED to be past them…..maybe Debbie needs to order him a Subway sandwich WITHOUT a cookie and see if she can unscrew his head, reseat the mother board and the cable connections and then screw it back on…..but that might take a shink a lifetime to fix.

    This team is NOT the 57 & 1 team of Sloan’s. This team is NOT the 1983 team of destiny (last year’s look more like that than this year). We have a LOT of talent. The reporters, as much as we think WE know more, realized that. The talent has NOT gelled into a team. Maybe that is Gott’s fault? Maybe that is the Team’s fault? Maybe the Team ought to do a Code Red (Few Good Men) on Calvin…..THAT has straightened out a lot of folks? Maybe….Maybe….Maybe?

    If you want some theraputic reading, I am about half way through David Thompson’s Skywalker. Can NOT help but do some comparisons….

    We do NOT have the talent that that team had…..but THEY gelled…..they recognized DT as the leader and worked FOR him to get points. OUR team does NOT seem to work FOR Calvin….it seems like his wanting to be on a Highlight Spot DOES cause some tensions.

    I do NOT think that him picking up the guy casued isses…..but him wanting to do a double back flip and then a reverse in and out of his orifice one finger DUNK is NOT impressing them.

    Finally….Wife and I did our predictions about the rest of the season and read and re-read the tie breaker rules. It does NOT look pretty…..

    UNC needs another LOSS (Duke?). UVA needs 2 more losses…..oh, BTW, we do NOT need to LOSE another game. We probably have 5th ACC seed sewed up, but need others to mess up so we can slither up a notch.

    As to the NCAAT, we are probably a solid 6 seed…we were a 5 with a shot for 4, but we shot ourselves in the (FTB).

    Unless Calvin reads Skywalker and has a Come to CASE/SLOAN/VALVANO conversion and turns into “Mr. TEAM before SELF” MVP and unless Gott does a Vulcan Mind Meld with Jimmy V. (now that WOULD be a scary mind to get into)….then we probably will not be playing on April 8 in ATL…..but, you never know…..this is about the time that Whitt came back in and said…”throw me the rock…..I’m gonna HIT” in 1983…

    EDIT……quick thought. I remember Gott pulling Calvin several times last year and talking about ” highlight films and loving Calvin and sometimes it was necessary to sit him on the bench beside him and express his love “up close and personal….”. That was on one of his radio shows when someone asked WHY he made some personnel changes….MAYBE showing Calvin some “LOVE” might be in order again….but I am NOT paid the big bucks or have the NCAA D1 coaching experience to make that call.

    GO Pack….

    PS….Black Uni index is unreliable. LBSTI is also out of calibration….but Gott looked sharp!

  12. ldr of the pk 75 02/24/2013 at 2:42 PM #

    Offering opinion or a critique of a game or a player isn’t giving up on or selling out on the team. The commonality of this thread and of our season is in the things that continue to be issues. Lazy play,questionable defense, FT shooting, etc. It isn’t wrong to question these characteristics, especially this far into a season of promise as this one held.

    A graphic near the end of the first half showed us to have 12 turnovers and UNC 2. It went on to mention points off turnovers. There no less than 4 or 5 absolutely lazy passes picked off by the Heels for uncontested slams, in the first half. There’s 10 pts right there. We continue to be a poor FT shooting team when it counts. Howell was killing it on the boards first half. And, we go into the half down a couple. And, so it goes.

    Chemistry and attitude issues between players is also being brought up here. Isn’t that a management issue, much like a parent with a child? It’s up to the boss to explain roles to players and hold them accountable. Bad attitudes, for whatever reason, cannot be allowed to screw up a team chemistry. That’s when you do whatever it takes to get the prima donas attention, including bench time, long bench time.

  13. DrWuffette1day 02/24/2013 at 3:05 PM #

    Mr. Dog,

    I understand and it’s a good offense. The problem is the #1 defender would follow the ball in after the #4 high post entry pass. Our #4 would square to basket. Our #5 was covered. #1 is behind #4 – not in a forward passing lane. #2 was stagnant on the wing with a defender (a defender who would be the 4th defensive man if our #4 decided to dribble).

    That means #1 is open in a non-passing lane and #3 should be open on the opposite wing. I think #3 was not in a passing lane. This is odd because Buckets got 31 points – coming weak side rebounding last Tues. I think he was a little happy and crashed the boards to early this game. Side note: #3 only had 5 offensive boards. WBS did a better rebounding job at the #1 slot. That isn’t good with our shooting percentage coupled with the attention that the other guys are receiving coupled with the fact he’s about a foot taller than WBS. Not a good game.

    What I saw yesterday was# 1 driving down the lane (way, way too much), trying to find a passing lane for #5 or kicking it out to a covered #2 when/if the defense collapsed (it didn’t), further squeezing the defense, and then have to shoot a junk shot. A pass to #2 would have been a turnover the way they were all over Wood. A pass to # 5 would have been magical but tough to thread the needle – passing lane issues. Our #4 crowded our #1 by following him to the boards. Arrrgh.

    The defense should have been spread out more with another legitimate outside threat besides our #2 by our #3.

    Because that didn’t happen, the very quick defense was able to collapse and then rebound.

    Predictable outcome. It was a bad day.

    Agreed Mr. Dog, touch passes from the #4 back to #1 for a quick shot would have opened it up a little but #4 has been trained to square up and evaluate. #3 should have also been more available and that would have loosened up #5. Otherwise, #4 really didn’t have many passing options. The whiners need to get open and quit standing around ! I would actually love to see #2 set a pick for #5 in a blue moon.

    Outside threat from #1 or #3 would have also been beneficial. Our #2 made some shots that were just amazing but we need more outside production.

    It is interesting to see WBS vs Brown in the lineup….he heads down to where # 2 “sits” and makes his entry passes from there. Having said that, Brown is much more efficient on the break. Yes #1 is still my #1 but #1 laid a big ol #2 in the hole yesterday.

    BTW, are you questioning my fan intelligence? 🙂

  14. DrWuffette1day 02/24/2013 at 3:15 PM #

    Today Rick shows toughness. Greeeeeeeaaaat. Where were you yesterday when your team need you pal? 😉

    (I’m very superstitous.)

  15. tuckerdorm1983 02/24/2013 at 3:17 PM #

    well I believe in Mr. Gott and he will move us in the right direction. We may have gotten ahead of ourselves last year. Expectations were too much.

    Deficiencies
    1. No premier big man (knew this all along)
    2. No bench (knew this as painter and johnson left)
    3.Three freshman of which two needed to produce. They have kinda of and then not. (well it would help if all three could play like seniors
    4.Scott wood is a single dimension player (to slow a foot to get around anybody so he must shoot off screens)
    5. CJL. We all screamed with joy when he announced he was returning, now we are hoping he leaves. The young man screwed up on the first couple of plays and that upset him and he could not get it back together. He needs to see a sports psychologist or take some Beta Blockers or something to get him out of a funk. 6 points and 6 turnovers. (no one saw this coming)

  16. TheCOWDOG 02/24/2013 at 3:51 PM #

    “BTW, are you questioning my fan intelligence?”

    Quite the opposite. Just bringing it out. You are no more a fan than I. But alas, that’s what we are. So far, you have transitioned well. I have not. Over a 35ish yr span, no less.

    Now…perhaps the single most poignant thing you bring up about State’s attack in the High Post, is the reliance, or propensity to penetrate before the entry pass. When Brown makes it happen…well good things happen.

    But that ain’t the high low. You know it, I know it. By the way, Leslie is at his best when they make the high post entry , and Howell catches him in the block before the collapse. Just way the O was drawn up.

    And that’s what I mean about fan intelligence. Not mine, mind you.

  17. Wulfpack 02/24/2013 at 4:06 PM #

    UVA routed GT today and enjoys a two game lead on the Pack with 4 to play. Bennett can flat out coach.

  18. DrWuffette1day 02/24/2013 at 4:09 PM #

    I enjoy you Mr. Dog.

    It makes me wonder whether this is part of his system (I didn’t watch him at AL) or whether he views this offense the best for his current personnel. I say this with the scenario that right now we are definitely looking at a #5 ACC ranking (the highest in years) and possibly even higher if luck rolls our way.

    That was one of my early red flags against Coach Lowe. He implemented an offense that did not compliment his personnel. He backed off of it with Atsur in the first year then returned in Year 2. He wanted to immediately change the style of play. If you don’t have horses, you can’t run and be successful.

    I see Gott as being more flexible in his offensive strategies than past coaches, specifically all of them since about ’92.

  19. DrWuffette1day 02/24/2013 at 4:12 PM #

    UVA is a problem for us. What surprises me is that they haven’t had many lapses. They have maintained their composure and discipline. I don’t like them.

  20. Rick 02/24/2013 at 4:27 PM #

    “Today Rick shows toughness. Greeeeeeeaaaat. Where were you yesterday when your team need you pal”

    If you read the game thread you would know I was at my nephew’s daughter’s baptism. In retrospect it was a much more enjoyable time.

  21. 61Packer 02/24/2013 at 4:39 PM #

    I don’t think it’s becoming a season of lost opportunities. It IS a season of lost opportunities. In a game of unranked teams yesterday, we were a 5-point dog who got our heads handed to us in what should have been our most important game of the season.

    Be realistic. We might (and should) run the table before the ACCT, but beating all of our final opponents won’t enhance our status one bit. Winning on Thursday and Friday in Greensboro will do little, either. If we make it to Saturday, we’ll again be a dog who’s expected to play like one. Even a Saturday win wouldn’t help our national standing much, and only a tourney table-run would give us a top-4 NCAAT seed. 4 games in 4 days is too much to ask from what’s become the nation’s biggest Prima Donna act this side of Texas.

    Whether any or all of the underclassmen return next season is no longer important to me. One thing I do care about, however, is those black uniforms. No, those GD black uniforms!

    PLEASE burn them!

  22. ADVENTUROO 02/24/2013 at 4:49 PM #

    Might I add that Mr. Randle, whom we seem to be courting with all of the love and affection that the NCAA will allow also seems like HE enjoys being on ESPN since he and Mama have “syncronized” his visits to the ESPN game day schedule.

    Will he have an attitude….NAW….probably just a coincidence.

    Cal is the only coach that actually seems to have the personality to deal with the big heads….Mikey has Jefferson under control….

  23. DrWuffette1day 02/24/2013 at 4:50 PM #

    JK Rick. You were where you were supposed to be and that’s a good thing. Hope you had a good time. You’re a good guy. Had some fun talking about you yesterday with Wufpacker.

  24. highstick 02/24/2013 at 5:39 PM #

    “Sloan had 4 returning starters from the 74 team and we could not win the conference in 75. How did that happen?”

    You really don’t want me to tell you, do you?

  25. BJD95 02/24/2013 at 5:42 PM #

    There is NO WAY you can call this an already lost opportunity. We are in the damned tournament. How we perform there is the most important aspect of the season, by far.

    I knew people were building things up way out of proportion this offseason.

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