Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

Yes, that sucked. We went into Chapel Hill, played poorly to start…then clawed our way back to a small lead with all the momentum in the world. Then we crapped the bed down the stretch on the way to a blowout loss. A B+ effort by the Pack wins that game easily…and we didn’t even come close. One high profile individual didn’t even bring his D- game, or in all probability, multiple lobes of his brain.

But this team is still on track to go 11-7 and land no worse than a 6 seed. We CAN still be a very dangerous team in the post-season. This was ONE horrible game, at an inopportune time. After all, losing to a blue (especially light blue) hurts way worse than a clunker in Winston-Salem. We can’t let it beat us in Tallahassee and Atlanta, too.

Let’s also talk about coaching. Yes, I did (and still do) criticize his re-inserting Calvin, when the Purvis/Buckets/Zo/Woo/Talibeard five were clicking on all cylinders. But I do understand that it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. We absolutely NEED Calvin in Calvinistic form, or you can spend time outdoors with your family this March. He’s essential. You can’t lose him. You need him to feel he still has the coach’s and his teammates’ trust.

And let’s remember how to be nuanced. Mark Gottfried is not primarily an in-game strategist. He certainly has his moments (he was a maestro at Clemson, when so many players were out of synch), but his strengths are primarily as a recruiter, motivator, and mentor. ALMOST NOBODY is an expert in all phases. Roy Williams is VERY similar, though with a different temperament. He also gets critized sometimes as “sucking” in-game…when really, it’s just not his BEST skill. He’s a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer. Not saying MG is THAT…but he still has plenty of ceiling, and can succeed as who he is. Saying “he’s no better than Sidney Lowe on game day” and such…that’s just nonsense. We all take things too far in the heat of the moment, but I have seen that enough that I want to nip it in the bud.

Let this also be a general plea for moderation and critical thinking. It’s ok to criticize, and point out things that annoy us. Nobody should criticize other fans for not being 100% butterflies and sunshine. But it’s silly to go overboard in the other direction, and act like our basketball program and even this season are somehow lost cause dumpster fires. They’re not. Kids, I went to NC State from 1991-95. I know a dumpster fire when I see one.

Our coaches and players need to feel the sting of this rivalry loss, but they also need to learn from what happened and be better for the experience. It’s all still right in our hands.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

12-13 Basketball Big Four Rivals Mark Gottfried

171 Responses to Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

  1. Ed89 02/24/2013 at 6:01 PM #

    “I have UNC outscoring NC State, 62-37, in C.J. Leslie’s 30 minutes on the court. State had UNC, 28-14, in the other 10 minutes.”

    This – what Rochester said on Page 1. Also, check Bluelena’s post on page 3. I’m starting to think the rash of transfers in not just on the coach’s. At some point, some of these players may have just said, “I can’t play 2, 3, or 4 more years with certain “teammates””. CJL plays selfishly. I clearly saw him not attempt to rebound on several plays. Once he missed 3 of his first 4 FT’s, then 5 of his first 6, he gave up. Pure and simple. He quit, and it was 4 on 5.
    Next game starters:

    Brown
    Purvis
    Wood
    Warren
    Howell

    Lewis first off the bench. CJ is becoming a cancer, and he can correct it, but the team better start coming first. Any team that takes a chance on him in the NBA will have the advantage of being able to send him directly to the NBDL. I just don’t think all the transfers are Gott’s fault. I’m starting to think CJL had a part in Painter, Harris, and Davis leaving…possibly TDT, Raymond, and Bubbleguts, too. And I think Wood was “extremely” close last year. CJL needs to screw his head on…he’s costing himself ALOT of $$$$ at the next level.

  2. highstick 02/24/2013 at 6:14 PM #

    Opportunity is not lost, BJD…but wanna bet on a major turnaround?

  3. john of sparta 02/24/2013 at 6:32 PM #

    Wood would make lots
    of Lira and Italian girls
    AND retire in Tuscany
    with his shot.

  4. Ed89 02/24/2013 at 6:46 PM #

    I still think we win the ACCT. Whether we are a 3, 4 or 5 seed. I think I may actually prefer a 5 seed. We’ll beat BC or Wake or GT, beat UVA on Friday (the Thursday game will actually help us), then beat Miami on Saturday. The other semi will be UNC/Duke, and we’ll beat either one. I have this feeling that CJL is going to realize the err of his ways, become a team player, and we’re going to gel down the stretch.

  5. ADVENTUROO 02/24/2013 at 6:55 PM #

    High,

    What happened in 1975 is a blur….I built a plant in TN and spent most of my time on the road or starting it up or fixing the Waste Water Treatment system to keep the plant manager out of jail…..

    I quite last night in Skywalker when we won the NCAA championship. David will tell me tonight what happened…so I will tell you tomorrow. See if your memory jibes with his….

    The ONLY thing, since you might be a historian, that I wondered is how a kid raised in a three bedroom cinderblock house (10 kids) finally afforded a GTO when he was in high school. I think the GTO emerged around 1964 or so. He graduated from high school in 1971, so that would have been a 7 year old car. When he was a junior, his Gran Prix was “stolen” so he had upgraded. Maybe I do NOT want to know….but that has rousted my unquenchable curiosity…..BUT, if you know and tell me, will you then have to KILL ME?

  6. Wufpacker 02/24/2013 at 6:55 PM #

    “Had some fun talking about you yesterday with Wufpacker.”

    Rick, I dunno what that crazy damn woman is talking about. If there’s anything in that thread about you with my name on it, then I’ve obviously been framed.

  7. Rochester 02/24/2013 at 7:21 PM #

    I would absolutely bring CJL off the bench if I were Gott, until he started showing that winning mattered to him more than getting on the SportCenter top 10 plays.

  8. Wulfpack 02/24/2013 at 7:29 PM #

    Winning four games in four days will be a very tall order, considering our lack of depth.

  9. Alpha Wolf 02/24/2013 at 7:38 PM #

    Okay, this talk of the 1975 season has me very interested. I remember being as a kid at the Maryland game where they finally beat us. I was 12.5 years old. You take those things verrrrrry personally when you’re that age. And watching it still hurts.

    So if there’s a backstory, I would love to hear it.

  10. DrWuffette1day 02/24/2013 at 7:42 PM #

    Rochester, what do you do about the other two then? They have demonstrated a lack of caring too and worse than that Woo opened up to the press. (I think we’ll be ok. Gott and any coach is not going to allow this nonsense to continue.)

    Wufpacker- Not only does our team need some teambuilding exercises……you little……

    Rick- don’t listen to him. He’s been in the dessert, mark that, desert too long.

  11. Rochester 02/24/2013 at 8:05 PM #

    I love Scott Wood, despite his defensive deficiencies. I’m not going to punish him for being pissed off that someone else sandbagged his last chance to win in Chapel Hill. Maybe he shouldn’t have said as much as he said, but let’s be honest, we all knew what he was talking about before he even said anything.

  12. TheCOWDOG 02/24/2013 at 8:32 PM #

    What’s there to know about ’75? It was pretty simple.

    Rick and SF would say one thing ” Hank Nichols”

    3 technicals to go with severe foul trouble, and a guy named Phil Ford.

    For the record, I say Hank Nichols. Oh, and a guy named Phil Ford.

    Adventuroo might believe there’s an answer or two in the book. But DT doesn’t name names. I’m thinkin’ page 122, but I could be wrong. He loved us just the same, still does.

  13. Alpha Wolf 02/24/2013 at 8:44 PM #

    Cool…will go digging through Skywalker soon as I get home.

  14. DrWuffette1day 02/24/2013 at 9:08 PM #

    Woo sandbagged the team by not being a team player on the court. He has individually done some great things at the end of the game but I don’t see a winner’s attitude.

    I see a loser’s mindset with a focus on individual goals and a yappy mouth who wants to blame others. He needs to man up, play some defense for the love of all humanity, pass the ball inside, and think real hard of other ways to become more productive offensively.

    If I was Calvin, I wouldn’t want to play defense end of the court either. He’s got to guard his own man plus Woo’s man. Rarely does Wood’s man on any ACC team not blow by him at will when they are not shooting field goals. There is a reason Woo has become a semi-expert in blocking shots from behind.

    Easy on Calvin. He gets too much undeserved hostility. We are lucky to have him. Other guys need to do right, especially with what we saw on Sat.

    I’m going with we had a “bad” night: they are entitled to that every once in a while.

    I love Scott Wood too. He is clutch but he needs to fly right. These guys drive me nuts, so much potential.

  15. Ed89 02/24/2013 at 9:44 PM #

    Scott Wood is the only one who could score any points in the last ten minutes of the game. If it wasn’t for his 2 incredible 3’s that put us up by 5, we probably would have lost by 20. Sorry, Wuffette, but you are off. Either we score in transition, or we look for Wood in the half court set. CJL kept turning it over, and Lo seemingly could not take Paige off the dribble. That left one option…Wood. Just wait til next year when we don’t have that option, and Wood is gone. Without Wood we probably would have lost at home vs. UNC (2 huge 3’s during their comeback) and definitely would have lost at Clemson. 6-8 at best. We have NO ONE else that can shoot! We have the best 3 pointer shooter in the ACC yet we shoot the least number of 3’s in the ACC…why? Cuz, no one else shoots that well, doesn’t have the confidence. Purvis can, Warren can, Lewis can, and Lo can… they just rarely shoot it with confidence. That may be partly due to having a guy like Wood. If you’ve ever played basketball and you are the 2nd or 3rd best shooter, you generally are more apprehensive…than if you are the go-to-guy. Ask anyone on VT’s team…

    As Rochester said, “I’m not going to punish him for being pissed off that someone else sandbagged his last chance to win in Chapel Hill.”

  16. T-Pack 02/24/2013 at 10:00 PM #

    From what I’ve seen of this team so far this year, nothing would surprise me . . . from a trip to the Final 4, to being blown out in the first round by a double-digit seed, depending on whatever chemistry is working (or not) at the time. Perhaps Coach could impress on certain players that their draft stock and their paydays will improve on learning to pass out of triple teams rather than attempting to force things and picking up traveling calls . . . which apparently has become for refs a “known tendency” that is now being called regularly. Not even hitting two-thirds of one’s free throws even more raises the odds of forcing it inside being a waste of posessions. Time for some fatherly coaching.

  17. packpowerfan 02/24/2013 at 10:50 PM #

    Man, I hope some of you guys made it to church this morning without chunks of sky crushing you.

  18. ADVENTUROO 02/24/2013 at 11:08 PM #

    PackPowerFan,

    Did not see any asteroids, hemmeroids, or meteroids falling from the sky. DID notice there was less RED on the folks this morning, but surprising NO increase in Light Blue….well maybe NOT so surprisingly since God is not allowed on the TarHeel Campus, even though they all state that God is a TarHeel since the sky is light blue….

    ONE OTHER COMMENT…..just to get this discussion sidetracked again.

    The consensus of both THE UNC and NCSU board monkeys is that Scott Wood was talking about the REFEREES…..UNC in that we were whining about them….NCSU in that were whining about them.

    Game stats for refs were NOT that far out….really a little low…the MORE shots taken and more 3 Pt shots taken was about half the victory margin.

    Wonder if Coach will address the comment or make some OTHER comment on the radio show tomorrow night…..he does sometime wade into controversial territory…..

  19. Alpha Wolf 02/24/2013 at 11:10 PM #

    CJL kept turning it over, and Lo seemingly could not take Paige off the dribble. That left one option…Wood. Just wait til next year when we don’t have that option, and Wood is gone.

    We’ll have BeeJay Anya down low, Lewis on the wing — and he is already showing he is capable of hitting the three. Kyle Washington has shown the ability to break people down off the dribble and is a great rebounder too. Cat Barber will be able to stir the mix as an off the bench player to spell Lewis. That’s just the frosh.

    Warren is going to be stronger, a touch faster and have even more confidence as the speed of the game will be well known to him. Purvis can hit the outside jumper now, and his ability to break down a defender and drive past him should improve as well.

    What worries me is the simple fundamentals: will these guys (Lewis aside) be able to be consistent from the line late in games when front ends of 1-and-1’s are vital? Will they be able to play a good matchup man-to-man without leaving the lane as wide open as I-40 at 7am Sunday morning? Will they be able to keep their fouling under control?

    It will be a young team, one a year away probably, but one that should grow more and more dangerous as the year goes on.

  20. Alpha Wolf 02/24/2013 at 11:14 PM #

    Man, I hope some of you guys made it to church this morning without chunks of sky crushing you.

    I was over the loss quickly. I expected it, but was disappointed all the same. And so it goes.

    I think we’ll bounce back nicely against BC and then hopefully be back on track for the Tech game next weekend. I wish I could say I were more confident about our guys against a clearly inferior opponent in Tech, but the road has been a house of horrors for us this year.

  21. Tau837 02/25/2013 at 1:07 AM #

    Finally cooled off from yesterday and read the comments in this thread. I disagree with plenty of what was posted, but this jumped out above the rest:

    “Whenever Calvin gets publicity (this week sportscenter & earlier with the GMA interviews), Brown and Wood ice him. Jealousy.”

    I could not disagree more with this, and I’m disappointed to see something like that posted. Show me some evidence of this if you’re going to make this claim. I have watched every game and I haven’t seen it.

    I’ve certainly seen plenty of situations where I felt Leslie should have passed to Wood or Brown and didn’t. But I haven’t seen it the other way.

    If there is a chemistry issue on this team, IMO its name is C.J.

  22. Wufpacker 02/25/2013 at 3:56 AM #

    “Wufpacker- Not only does our team need some teambuilding exercises……you little……”

    Hey, make no mistake, I’ll backstab to save myself should the need ever arise. I’ve decided to go in the fashion of WP Bball ’12-’13. If I’m ever getting chased by zombies, I’ll probably trip whoever I’m with. 😀

    As far as this team and chemistry goes, we all have our suspicions of who/how many are at fault. Given the post game comments yesterday my opinion falls more in line with Wuffette’s…which if I’m reading correctly is CJL mopishness with a hefty dose of shutout from those surrounding him.

    But at the end of the day, our opinions are just that….opinions based on what we see outwardly. The real deal is likely more convoluted, but it really doesn’t matter. Bottom line is our guys ain’t pulling in the same direction right now. If they don’t find a way change that(and fast) and put their petty little chit aside, this season of great potential will soon be little more than a classic Kansas song.

    All things considered, I am not optimistic.

  23. DrWuffette1day 02/25/2013 at 7:39 AM #

    Tau- it’s about in-game performance and behavior patterns.

    Ed- the exact same arguments against Calvin you are making for Woo. Woo has an awesome stroke, but he is ghost most of the game, even while scoring 20. He played 38 mins and had 3 baskets in the 1st half.

    Wood makes 3’s and at a very high percentage. He shows flashes of brilliance. If you bash Calvin, bash Woo.

    It’s all about expectations. You expect more out of Calvin. You forget Woo’s even on the floor and then he sinks a couple (literally) amazing shots. He’s also clutch and not afraid to shoot when we really need a scrore.

    However, he is the 4th best player on our team. It’s the fourth best player’s job to help the top players score. Additionally, Woo’s man killed us on Sat and we were on that losing end of that individual scoring battle.

    It would have also been nice this year if we could give Woo some tougher defensive assignments in order to save Brown’s legs. Instead Brown paces himself on D but tries to make sure he doesn’t get beat and tries to mildly contest shots.

    What makes Woo fly under most of our radar is that for the most part he takes care of the ball and makes good decisions. He also provides guidance to his teammates while he’s out there to help them with match-ups. He’s a smart player – but IMHO, not as productive as he should be when you look at his floor time.

    Calvin has to create his shot which makes him look brilliant or makes him look selfish. (see above)

    I have Alpha and Wufpackers’ happy future thoughts.

  24. Afterglow 02/25/2013 at 8:06 AM #

    “Is it me or does the background really make it difficult to read things?

    What is the background I keep reading about? All I see is white, both in Windows and on Mac and in Firefox, Safari and IE9 on a Win7 box.

    Am I missing something? (I don’t do the site design, just the tech stuff, so this is a serious question.)”

    Something changed after I made the comment (at least on my computer). The background use to have a basketball floor and the writing was really difficult to read.

    As for where we are as a team and where Leslie is, I don’t think it’s that big a deal. This team will figure it out. We have some games left to play, then the ACC Tournament and on. It’s easy to be stuck in the moment but if we finish strong and Leslie finishes strong, all of this will be meaningless.

  25. Rochester 02/25/2013 at 8:06 AM #

    Early in the second half, Gott sat CJL down. We were down 10 points. When he put him back in we were up 4 points. We proceeded to blow that lead almost immediately.

    If you still believe in CJL more than the rest of us, good for you, but don’t act like we’re crazy for noticing that the team played dramatically better when he was on the bench.

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