Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

Yes, that sucked. We went into Chapel Hill, played poorly to start…then clawed our way back to a small lead with all the momentum in the world. Then we crapped the bed down the stretch on the way to a blowout loss. A B+ effort by the Pack wins that game easily…and we didn’t even come close. One high profile individual didn’t even bring his D- game, or in all probability, multiple lobes of his brain.

But this team is still on track to go 11-7 and land no worse than a 6 seed. We CAN still be a very dangerous team in the post-season. This was ONE horrible game, at an inopportune time. After all, losing to a blue (especially light blue) hurts way worse than a clunker in Winston-Salem. We can’t let it beat us in Tallahassee and Atlanta, too.

Let’s also talk about coaching. Yes, I did (and still do) criticize his re-inserting Calvin, when the Purvis/Buckets/Zo/Woo/Talibeard five were clicking on all cylinders. But I do understand that it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. We absolutely NEED Calvin in Calvinistic form, or you can spend time outdoors with your family this March. He’s essential. You can’t lose him. You need him to feel he still has the coach’s and his teammates’ trust.

And let’s remember how to be nuanced. Mark Gottfried is not primarily an in-game strategist. He certainly has his moments (he was a maestro at Clemson, when so many players were out of synch), but his strengths are primarily as a recruiter, motivator, and mentor. ALMOST NOBODY is an expert in all phases. Roy Williams is VERY similar, though with a different temperament. He also gets critized sometimes as “sucking” in-game…when really, it’s just not his BEST skill. He’s a sure-fire first ballot Hall of Famer. Not saying MG is THAT…but he still has plenty of ceiling, and can succeed as who he is. Saying “he’s no better than Sidney Lowe on game day” and such…that’s just nonsense. We all take things too far in the heat of the moment, but I have seen that enough that I want to nip it in the bud.

Let this also be a general plea for moderation and critical thinking. It’s ok to criticize, and point out things that annoy us. Nobody should criticize other fans for not being 100% butterflies and sunshine. But it’s silly to go overboard in the other direction, and act like our basketball program and even this season are somehow lost cause dumpster fires. They’re not. Kids, I went to NC State from 1991-95. I know a dumpster fire when I see one.

Our coaches and players need to feel the sting of this rivalry loss, but they also need to learn from what happened and be better for the experience. It’s all still right in our hands.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

12-13 Basketball Big Four Rivals Mark Gottfried

171 Responses to Hole-mageddon Post-Game Semi-Rational Discussion

  1. PoppaJohn 02/23/2013 at 9:01 PM #

    CJ is not going anywhere in the pros.
    He’ll get drafted because of his freakish physical abilities, but he is not strong enough to assert his will against a pro. So he won’t be able to score consistently. He can’t stop anyone defensively. He doesn’t rebound well. I give him three years and a couple of teams, and he’ll be selling insurance.

    He doesn’t know it, but this is the pinnacle of his career and he is wasting it.

  2. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 9:06 PM #

    I don’t see Calvin having a solid pro career either. He is a tweener and doesn’t do anything particularly well. Not strong enough in the post. Not much range that I have seen. Probably a mid to late second round pick from what I understand. His stock has definitely plummeted this year.

    Howell and Brown can have very good careers IMHO.

  3. DrWuffette1day 02/23/2013 at 9:07 PM #

    Wood and Brown should be locked out of the Dail Center for a week.

    Whenever Calvin gets publicity (this week sportscenter & earlier with the GMA interviews), Brown and Wood ice him. Jealousy. Glad I’m not Gott.

    Right now, I don’t have sympathy for any of them and will be glad to see Lowe players gone if they are going to continue with this nonsense. Wood needs to keep his mouth shut. Dumb move for one of our smartest players on the team.

    It’s already obvious what’s going on. He’s being a complete and utter d-a$$ feeding the press and making the situation worse. He knows better. To me, this is not caring. Not caring about winning. Not caring about the team. Loser-mentality. Bench him. Heck, don’t let him get on the bus. Leave his butt in the hole.

    Poor Gott. If you’ve got a decent record and a real chance to be in the top tier of the ACC, do you “work around” this loser culture and play your “best” players possibly infecting your freshmen OR do you bench the malcontents and dummies while playing Howell and the freshmen knowing that your record isn’t going to be as good?

    I guess we all know the answer. Gott is a competitor.

    Brown was my favo player too. Dang. No positive leadership.

    Insane running is not a bad answer. Atleast, the upper classmen can center their pettiness at the coach.

  4. TheCOWDOG 02/23/2013 at 9:09 PM #

    Thanks, Alpha. That dichotomy is exactly what I mean.

  5. motorhead 02/23/2013 at 9:14 PM #

    As frustrated as we are I can only imagine how Gott feels. I suspect this is what Wood was implying (and he shouldnt have). Gott had the buy in late last year and turned things around to a sweet sixteen run. It was late February last year, after the Clemson loss, so it can happen again. But I am not all that optimistic. I love what they are doing on the recruiting trail though and the program is on good footing.

  6. john59 02/23/2013 at 9:15 PM #

    I like your comment and agree, the coach has been a plus for me so much I’m going to but ACC tickets and I think we will do great.

  7. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 9:17 PM #

    One minor point of clarification, Alpha. NBA Draft is only 2 rounds.

  8. LRM 02/23/2013 at 9:18 PM #

    @DavidCMorrison
    Wood, on what went wrong: “I don’t think it’s fatigue. It’s a couple other things.” Like what? “I’m not allowed to say.”

  9. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 9:20 PM #

    Ok, so somebody is boning somebody else’s GF. We’ve been through this before. Get over it, fellas.

  10. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 9:24 PM #

    CHAPEL HILL — C.J. Leslie apologized to his teammates at halftime of Saturday’s loss at North Carolina.

    The N.C. State junior forward had six turnovers as the Wolfpack fell behind 34-28 at the half.

    “He said it was his fault and he was going to make up for it,” N.C. State guard Lorenzo Brown said. “He tried to do his best but it wasn’t working for him.”

    Leslie did not talk with the media after the game. Brown said Leslie knew that he struggled.

    “He just had a bad game,” Brown said. “I had a bad game and he had a bad game. We’re going to get in the gym and work on that.”

    http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/23/2702464/nc-states-leslie-takes-blame-for.html#storylink=cpy

  11. motorhead 02/23/2013 at 9:26 PM #

    Bad time to have a bad game.

    I think back to the video of them getting into the dance. The elation, the camaraderie. They got along. I dont think that would happen with this team.

  12. JeremyH 02/23/2013 at 9:29 PM #

    I said this would be tough good, and it was. Give UNC credit, they came in with a gameplan and played really solid defense that helped cause some of the turnovers. They took us out of rhythm and it worked. With our short bench we rely on our three freshman and they don’t play we’ll on the road. As to Wood’s quote, keep that stuff in house. Unless someone’s girlfriend is involved its still fixable. Also look at the bright side, we’re still in the top half of the ACC. I’m ready to start seeing neutral site games and maybe some without ACC refs that always allow hacking if Leslie and Howell.

  13. Wulfpack 02/23/2013 at 9:34 PM #

    When your star player performs as badly as he did, for all the world to see, it is kind of hard to hide it. I mean, you are going to be asked about it. Gott was asked about it. Lo was asked about it. Wood was asked about it. I mean, how do you not address it? He played like crap, everybody knows that. Hopefully, he doesn’t put his tail between his legs and gets serious about things. Enough of this bologna. Show us what you are made of.

  14. motorhead 02/23/2013 at 9:36 PM #

    Oh and how about the Deacons????

  15. Rochester 02/23/2013 at 9:40 PM #

    Tweet by David Morrison of Greensboro News & Record:

    I have UNC outscoring NC State, 62-37, in C.J. Leslie’s 30 minutes on the court. State had UNC, 28-14, in the other 10 minutes.

    That pretty much sums up what I saw. I’m not sure I get the criticism on here of “Lowe’s players.” Howell plays his ass off and better be a 1st team all-ACC selection. We clearly can’t win with Zo. And Scott Wood is the best shooter in the ACC and played his heart out today from what I saw. That leaves one guy, who posted a mind-boggling plus-minus today.

    Calvin is like a flashy shortstop who makes unbelievable diving plays on balls in the hole, then boots the routine grounders and strikes out with the bases loaded. Give me someone steady but unspectacular at the 4 and I bet we see a different W-L record.

    If the NBA doesn’t want him I hope we move on without him. Love the highlight reel dunks, but they don’t make up for games like this.

  16. motorhead 02/23/2013 at 9:46 PM #

    I dont see any way that Leslie is on the team next year.

  17. choppack1 02/23/2013 at 9:47 PM #

    I don’t necessarily blame Calvin. Brown had some awful passes and defensive lapses too.

    As for gott, he has a track record… to me he has a lot to prove when it comes down to confidence in his abilities long term.

  18. coach13 02/23/2013 at 9:51 PM #

    brown and Leslie to NBA = addition by subtraction. For all their good and talent their mental lapses and “pop up” i quit attitudes kills this team.

    We will have 3 So, 4 Fr and whatever the transfer is. But maybe coaches can coach and not worry about fragile minds.

    I will pull hard for this team but I am not optimistic. Maybe something will happen and they will surprise me.

  19. LifeLongWolf 02/23/2013 at 9:55 PM #

    Y’all need to calm down. This is the best coach and the best team we’ve had in a long time. We aren’t a dominant team, so we are gonna lose some. This is much more enjoyable than recent teams, so lighten up!

    Also, don’t forget these are college kids, still figuring out how the world works. They are learning how to deal with other people and their own emotions and all that crap. Hell, how many of us performed well in chemistry lab EVERY freaking time? I sure as hell didn’t make 100% on every assignment. Give ’em a break. Honest critiques of performance is expected. This off the deep end analysis based on rumors and speculation is just stupid.

    Also, integrating freshmen and upperclassmen doesn’t always go smoothly. I expect us to be fine come March. Maybe not win it all, but perform well and get beat only by better teams.

  20. bluelena69 02/23/2013 at 10:11 PM #

    I am quite convinced the rumors coming out of the Dail Center have significant merit. I have noticed for some time that there is a certain player who doesn’t appear to have much rapport with the rest of the team. Its not Warren or Purvis–who have been questioned for being sources of possible chemistry issues. Its not Wood and it damned sure isn’t Howell. Brown seems to have a more or less decent relationship with the team.

    Leslie is the one who clearly doesn’t seem to interact with or have much rapport with the rest of the team. No one smacks him on the ass after a good play and he often seems alone out there.

    I think its becoming clear that this team has real chemistry issues and I think everyone is starting to wisen up to its true source. I have seen it said that Leslie forments jealousy in Brown and/or Wood. This is off-base I feel.

    Wood and Brown have either sacrificed for this team and/or have turned out to be at least as good as possible with the talent they were given. Leslie on the other hand is a complete enigma…a prima donna even. With each game that passes, I regretfully become more convinced that he is a cancer on this team.

    Thus, I don’t think one can label what Wood and/or Brown must feel as “jealously.” Rather, I am sure they are fed up with all of the accolades and attention CJL receives only to see him doing little to live up to them. The coaches have obviously spent a great deal of time glad-handing this enigma and everyone has to deal with it. I am sure it is getting really old by now. Despite all of this extra nurturing CJL mandates, no one can be sure if he is going to decide to show up or not. It would piss me the fuck off if I watched it every day and I am sure most here would feel the same way.

  21. choppack1 02/23/2013 at 10:12 PM #

    That is fine lifelong and you are right… we shouldn’t be sweating selection Sunday… but long term, some of us consider the past, others don’t.

  22. MISTA WOLF 02/23/2013 at 10:13 PM #

    “He doesn’t know it, but this is the pinnacle of his career and he is wasting it.”

    By far the best point I’ve ever seen made on here involving CJ. Beautifully stated Poppa John. Calvin is going to spend a year in the D-League before going over seas to play for some Czech Republic team where he is paid with bottles of vodka.

  23. TheAliasTroll 02/23/2013 at 10:15 PM #

    Are we seriously talking about how we’re going to be a better team if we lose Brown next year? Seriously? That kid will be starting on an NBA team someday. Get real.

  24. Avid109 02/23/2013 at 10:20 PM #

    The team is having chemistry issues, huh?

    This reminds me of one of the years that I was at State. It was the 1986-87 season. There were many problems (remember Kenny Drummond?), but it did have a bright spot near the end.

  25. Afterglow 02/23/2013 at 11:02 PM #

    Is it me or does the background really make it difficult to read things?

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