Wake Enters NCAA Tournament Discussion; State Mired in Point Guard Mess of Our Making

We set the stage in this entry last week that unless someone started claiming some scalps that the ACC would only have four participants in this year’s NCAA Tournament.

Wake Forest’s big win yesterday over the Duke Blue Devils is exactly the kind of statement and scalp that the Demon Deacons needed to propel themselves into the conversation. If the tournament started today the Demon Deacons would probably still be on the outside looking in…but the Deacs are a lot closer than they were before Sunday’s game.

As if NC State fans needed any further salt in our wounds, the play of Wake’s freshman point guard, Jeff Teague, continues to dazzle the league and underscore the importance of having a stud at the key position.

The play of Teague also underscores the price that NC State is paying for very poor talent evaluation at the position. The Wolfpack’s coaching staff obviously ‘out thought’ themselves over the last couple of years as they amassed three commitments for the position – Farnold Degand, Marques Johnson, Javier Gonzalez – while choosing to pass on names like Jai Lucas (Florida) and Chris Warren (Ole Miss).

Warren has been so spectacular that he has a whole list of articles in USA Today that are ‘tagged’ with his name. Last week Warren earned his third SEC Freshman of the Week honors

The Orlando, Fla., native poured in a career-high 26 points at Arkansas on Saturday, his fourth 20-point performance in league play. He single-handedly kept Ole Miss in the game, scoring 18 points in the second half, including 11 straight for the Rebels in the stretch run to cut a 12-point Razorback lead with just under three minutes remaining to a three-point edge with 51 seconds left in the game. The lightning-quick rookie drained six three-pointers (6-of-8), dished out five assists and made three steals in the game.

Warren ranks sixth in the SEC with 18.4 points per game in league play and ninth with a 16.4 average in all games. He also ranks third in assists and three-pointers in all games.

The 5-foot-10, 170-pound guard already seventh in school history with 64 three-pointers made this season, while his 345 points scored are sixth-most by a freshman in the Rebel program’s history.

Additionally, Lucas’ consistency at Florida led the Jacksonville newspaper to feature him last week.

The 5-foot-11 Lucas is averaging 2.4 assists per game, but in SEC play, that number jumps to 2.8 per game, and his 16 turnovers in 10 league games are the fewest among UF’s starters.

That’s proof of Lucas’ good decision-making, according to Donovan.

“He really tries not to turn it over, and generally the biggest problem when you have young guards that are freshmen like that [is] there’s going to be a lot of turnovers,” Donovan said. “So far, they’ve done a pretty good job of taking care of the basketball and understanding that, ‘You know what? If I don’t make the right play or I miss the right play, I’m better off holding onto the ball than I am throwing to somebody and getting it turned over.”

As BJD stated in this significantly important piece last week – Coach Lowe’s job may very well rest on the recruiting class that signs with NC State this coming November with no recruit more important that Raleigh’s very own John Wall at the point guard position.

But, allow me to add a little more to that while noting the obvious – if State lands wall and Trevor Ferguson does not graduate out (forget his ‘playing status’), then the Wolfpack will literally have SIX of THIRTEEN scholarships tied up in players who can play point guard if needed – Wall, Degand, Johnson, Ferguson, Gonzalez and Julius Mays. That is absurd. So, in addition to what State needs to sign in November, the program also desperately needs to do some ‘restructuring’ of scholarships allocation and spacing.

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07-08 Basketball Sidney Lowe

171 Responses to Wake Enters NCAA Tournament Discussion; State Mired in Point Guard Mess of Our Making

  1. Noah 02/18/2008 at 3:54 PM #

    “what do you have against Javi?!”

    Personally? Nothing. I just don’t think he’s any good. I think he’s a miserable shooter and not much of a playmaker.

    Grabbing a couple of loose rebounds that bounce long your way doesn’t make you athletic.

    As far as BB IQ goes, watching him try to beat the Clemson press — I’d have to disagree with you.

  2. happypackdad 02/18/2008 at 3:56 PM #

    dang Rick, give him/her a break

  3. choppack1 02/18/2008 at 4:09 PM #

    “losing Grant will hurt a lot, but the other “parts” SHOULD improve.”

    Yes, but last year, one could have rightly said, “Losing Atsur will hurt a lot, but the other parts SHOULD improve.”

    Of course, the “other parts” didn’t improve. Somehow, the “other parts” are actually worse as a sum than they were last year.

  4. gcpack 02/18/2008 at 4:09 PM #

    I agree with you happypackdad. Rick seems more interested in insulting people whose opinions he doesn’t like rather than just stating his view and leaving at that.

    You need to give it up Rick or I will lobby to have you barred from the website. I don’t log in to hear people calling each other names, the debate is nice but the name calling is bush league & doesn’t belong here.

  5. packgrad93 02/18/2008 at 4:16 PM #

    ^ agree Chop, Ben & Brandon didn’t improve from last year to this. I guess I’m hoping Sid & staff will take a different approach to the off-season work. Brandon’s confidence is his main issue IMO. Fells & Grant have improved their shooting. Horner, not so much.

  6. Noah 02/18/2008 at 4:16 PM #

    If we chart out Costner’s and McCauley’s career progression, why are we to believe that they’ll be better next year? Is my chart upside down? Because they appear to be trending in the OTHER direction…

  7. b 02/18/2008 at 4:20 PM #

    Listening to all the criticism, I bet Sid regrets that run in the ACCT now.

    We all listened to Grant, remembered the late tourney run, and drunk the Kool-Aid. I myself still have the red moustache to prove it, so I’m washing windows as much as throwing stones here.

    All you guys forget Sid was left with only 5 ACC level atheletes (maybe) and only one proven player. This wasn’t ol’ Roy left with a solid core of players. Atsur was a combo guard, Fells is a streak scorer, BC and Ben are passing PFs with little rebounding ability, and Grant was turnover machine with some dribble drive game. Yet he found a way to improve them steadily as last year went on, and everybody forgot their defensive liabilities.

    This year he lost the ONLY experienced ball-handler, and the rest of the league got tape on the other guys. They know how to defend our limited big men. Force McCauley to go one on one, force Costner to his right, and don’t leave Horner open. They have few alternatives.

    Degand WAS improving, and with him at PG we would not be so vulnerable to scoring PGs. His loss forced other guys to change their game to suppport a couple of project PGs, one of which is unathletic and the other has staggering mental lapses. Young players aren’t always ready for the immediate step up in class. I’m not willing to write off either player yet, Paulus struggled his whole freshman year and he was a 5 star recruit.

    MJ looks more like a small 3 to me, and he has shown some ability to score in the lane. Problem is, he has shown an inability to get to the lane. Fells struggles as a ball handler so he is little help, and should probably be a 3 as well. He must have a set-up man to be effective as he struggles to create his own offense.

    Good to hear the praise for J Thomas. Watched him play in a couple of Little Fours and he was a horse both years. He is explosive and plays hard, his defense and rebounding were way above par in HS, and he was a vocal leader for GDS. On the coaches show, Sid strongly hinted that we will see alot of T Smith and soon.

  8. BillyVest 02/18/2008 at 4:24 PM #

    Why would we fire a coach after two seasons?

    Because he’s making the program worse than when he got here.

    Give the man at least 4 years and then if we see the same product, you can make a move. Do it now and we’re in worse shape with recruiting than we are now and take even longer to get back to consistent winning play.

    Other than a verbal from CJ Leslie, there’s no other top 50 player committing to NCSU, at the moment. One CJ Leslie isn’t going to make or break us.

    Being mired in suckiness for two more year with Lowe will do more damage to recruiting than actually get a good coach.

    I hope I’m wrong about Lowe, but so far he hasn’t given me a lot to of positives to be impressed about.

  9. nycfan 02/18/2008 at 4:25 PM #

    *next season SHOULD be better IF JJ stays. Losing Grant will hurt a lot, but the other “parts” SHOULD improve.*

    See, this was a big part of my flawed thinking when I thought going into the season that NCSU would be 2nd in the league (that and vastly underestimating Dook). I expected to see Fells, McCauley and Costner build on their first season under Lowe, but instead all three (McCauley and Costner in particular) seem to have regressed.

    We’ve gotten to used to seeing tremendous improvement in ACC players from their freshman to sophomore seasons that it has probably created unreasonable expectations, but I thought Costner was a cinch 1st team All Conference player who was a dark-horse for POY. As it turns out, Hansbrough has improved tremendously IMO, so maybe POY would have been out of the question, but now Costner has become a serviceable player somehow. Ditto McCauley — everything great about his game, especially his great offensive IQ and passing, seems to have gone up in smoke. And Fells remains as erratic, if not more so, as ever.

    Lack of player development has been a problem at State for a while now, but I do not recall seeing two players of the caliber of McCauley and Costner regress like this. It is genuniely puzzling.

    So, based on this year, I’m not so sure it is safe to assume anyone on State show significant improvement. I can certainly come up with reasons (chemistry) why this season could well be the anomaly in that regard, but it seems unreasonable to expect across-the-board improvement when we’ve seen almost the opposite results this season; but, then again, it seems that Degand, Gonzalez and Johnson almost have to get better.

    I’m also not so sure you should bank on Hickson’s return, though that should depend entirely on draft status, and after his phenomenal start, he has faded in conference play to the point that Singler may beat him out for ROY, so who knows what that could mean to NBA scouts.

    As for the scholarship crunch, it does seem like Lowe and Towe panicked a bit with recruiting when they first arrived, signing available bodies rather than resigning to taking some short term lumps while they put in the time to get involved with the ’09 and later classes. Hickson certainly runs counter to that (I would say the same about Tracy Smith from the promise he has shown but since he doesn’t play anymore, I guess not), but Bartoz Lewandowski (sp?), Gonzalez and Johnson certainly seem to be part of a long-term miscalculation (don’t know about Mays or Wood) that has left State a bit hamstrung.

    Right now, Lowe has a lot of eggs in one basket with John Wall.

  10. Noah 02/18/2008 at 4:26 PM #

    One thing we all seem to be in agreement with…Lowe’s entire future hangs on the decision of John Wall.

    Everything else is up for debate, but it all comes down to Wall.

  11. BillyVest 02/18/2008 at 4:36 PM #

    I disagree about it coming down to Wall. There’s still the 2010 class, if Lowe’s around, to nab another top notch point guard.

  12. PackWolf82 02/18/2008 at 4:38 PM #

    good call b…well said I agree totally and hope to see T Smith and J Thomas next year

  13. Wulfpack 02/18/2008 at 4:38 PM #

    “…and after his phenomenal start, he has faded in conference play”

    Hickson’s Stats

    Clemson: 13 pts, 23 reb (highest total every for a freshman in the ACC)

    BC: 20 pts, 7 reb

    Maryland: 14 pts, 9 reb

    VT: 21 pts, 4 reb

    Duke: 14 pts, 10 reb

    Hickson is a beast as a freshman, just needs to improve his passing and his weak hands. Singler may be the frontrunner but a strong finish for JJ will warrant serious consideration.

  14. Trip 02/18/2008 at 4:39 PM #

    Aren’t there OTHER pg’s than Wall in 09? I mean, he can’t be the only good one left.

  15. Rick 02/18/2008 at 4:41 PM #

    I agree that it comes down to Wall.
    Scary really

  16. packbackr04 02/18/2008 at 4:46 PM #

    that cant help you sleep at night when your future rests on the shoulders of a 17 yr old kid who is being chased by almost every major program in the country… it does not bode well for Sid

  17. Noah 02/18/2008 at 4:56 PM #

    “Aren’t there OTHER pg’s than Wall in 09? I mean, he can’t be the only good one left.”

    Weren’t there other point guards than Degand, Gonzalez and Johnson? Lowe is in this boat because he CHOSE to be in this boat. I reject the idea that it HAD to be this way.

  18. Rick 02/18/2008 at 5:00 PM #

    “Lowe is in this boat because he CHOSE to be in this boat. I reject the idea that it HAD to be this way.”

    He chose to be in this boat because he chose to coach NCSU. While I can see blaming MJ on him I cannot see how you can blame the other two. There were NO ball control guards on this team other than Atsur. He came in to the game late. he got what he could. Rejecting it does not make it true.

  19. wolfpackpassion 02/18/2008 at 5:01 PM #

    all i know that the season is sunk, when i took my son to the pre game i thought this can’t be for real. 50-43 at home against a team playing division 1 for the first time. only able to score 17 pts in the first half. the trouble signs were there and it wasn’t the point, other players upderclassmen(grant(sr/fells jr, ben m/jr)etc must pick up their games and help the freshman come along. Two games,gt and clemson javi g brought the ball up the court at the end and no one came to take the ball and clear out and lead(grant?)
    coach lowe knows he has got some talent,but their is no heart in this team. Only javi and ben m plays hard thoughout. It was a disgrace to have the 83 team who had only one star(thurl b) on the whole roster but played with true guts and heart. Whit broke his ankle for goodness sakes and came back,
    What are these guys waiting on? to be eliminated post season play/nit/ncaa/women’s nit????
    Last year this team had fire and palyed 40 of pure guts basketball. Maybe costner and ben m and fells feel betrayed by coach lowe love for jj hickson whom will be gone after a year,but still from 40 minutes a game to 15,anyone who gets on the court shoudl dive for loose balls hustle on defense and play hard nosed physical basketball. only in stretches against clemson and a couple of other games has this team done that.
    I wish costner would transfer because he has no heart. I hear injury sories and jay bilas says he is not having fun lolll. What do these guys think when they go to the nba or overseas(overseas more likely/where are you julius hodge/cedric simmons?)
    I rather cheer for a 14-17 team that killed themselve on the floor than hearing another one of g grants predictions of four losses this year, we can make it to the final four, heck we can’t win the little four, (nccu,east carolina,davidson,western carolina?)
    But alot of wolfpack club folks said it was chemsitry issues with this team.
    i think they are right.

  20. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 02/18/2008 at 5:07 PM #

    The program had been destroyed until Sid got here in the summer of ’06. There where no great players and no recruits to speak of. There where a couple guys that apparently committed to Sendek but not NC State. The previous coach was aloud to hang around to long and if Sid’s program is worse off after 4 or 5 years it may make sense to look elsewhere but remember there where no big time coaches interested in NC State so I wouldn’t expect State to go out and land a top guy if Sid leaves. Not to mention the money it takes to get a big name coach here.

  21. Noah 02/18/2008 at 5:08 PM #

    “He chose to be in this boat because he chose to coach NCSU. While I can see blaming MJ on him I cannot see how you can blame the other two. There were NO ball control guards on this team other than Atsur. He came in to the game late. he got what he could.”

    So there weren’t ANY point guards in this year’s class? or next year’s class?

  22. choppack1 02/18/2008 at 5:28 PM #

    “previous coach was aloud to hang around to long and if Sid’s program is worse off after 4 or 5 years it may make sense to look elsewhere but remember there where no big time coaches interested in NC State so I wouldn’t expect State to go out and land a top guy if Sid leaves. Not to mention the money it takes to get a big name coach here.”

    If we don’t make the NCAAs next year after making it the 5 years before he got here, we’ve got all the evidence we need that he’s not the guy.

    We may not be able to sign a big time coach, but there’s no reason we can’t sign a coach who actually has successful college basketball experience at several levels. And it can’t be repeated enough: Lowe had ZERO college basketball coaching experience when he was hired to be our coach.

    Hiring Sid was a huge gamble. If it works out, we’ve got a coach alot of kids will want to play for. If this hire is not a home run, eveyone knows it will set our program back 10 years.

  23. Ismael 02/18/2008 at 5:29 PM #

    ridiculous…seriously ridiculous commentary from some of you guys, actually most of you. “Fire Sid”. Are you some of the same buffoons who were talking about “Fire TOB!”? Yes you are. The same ones. Then TOB started winning and you are gushing, been on the the band wagon the whole time right?

    Last year, Sid coached unbelieveably, just go back and look at any of the comments from games last year, and all the sudden he doesn’t know how to coach, you fools know better?

    I wrote a week or so ago, that until the PG situation gets corrected, you can EXPECT that all of our games will be close (if we win) and we shouldn’t expect to win any of them from here on out.

    Now think back to leading duke and UMD at the half (in their buildings). I know it all fell apart in the 2nd half, but the same people that were dominating got beat, its a young team and obviously some people aren’t playing up to what they did last year. Plus this year, imagine the mental adjustment that had to be made if you are a Costner or McCauley. You KNEW you were gonna get about 35 minutes, plus there were only 6 people they could put in a game, they bonded, they played hard.

    I know all of this isn’t gonna make a bunch of dufuses feel better because they think we should be in the final four…but why has all perspective been lost?

  24. BillyVest 02/18/2008 at 5:29 PM #

    Great programs don’t get built up by hiring “big time coaches”. They hire the up-and-comer or or an assitant from the bench of a successful coach, who becomes a “big time coach”.

  25. BillyVest 02/18/2008 at 5:35 PM #

    Are you some of the same buffoons who were talking about “Fire TOB!”?

    Nope. I thought the Fire TOB talk was premature given his 10 years of prior Div. 1A coaching experience and the success he had rebuilding BC.

    There’s nothing to gauge Sid by and what he can do as a coach. The way the team has played the past two seasons, other than an inspired ACC tournament run, I don’t see anything to take away as a positive.

    If we get a PG, Sid can create enough match up problems we’ll shoot a crazy high FG percentage and win more than we lose, but otherwise the other things that need to be done, in order to win championships are still lacking. Our rebounding isn’t good and our defense is lacking.

    We hired Sid to win championships and not just show up to the dance.

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