Wake Enters NCAA Tournament Discussion; State Mired in Point Guard Mess of Our Making

We set the stage in this entry last week that unless someone started claiming some scalps that the ACC would only have four participants in this year’s NCAA Tournament.

Wake Forest’s big win yesterday over the Duke Blue Devils is exactly the kind of statement and scalp that the Demon Deacons needed to propel themselves into the conversation. If the tournament started today the Demon Deacons would probably still be on the outside looking in…but the Deacs are a lot closer than they were before Sunday’s game.

As if NC State fans needed any further salt in our wounds, the play of Wake’s freshman point guard, Jeff Teague, continues to dazzle the league and underscore the importance of having a stud at the key position.

The play of Teague also underscores the price that NC State is paying for very poor talent evaluation at the position. The Wolfpack’s coaching staff obviously ‘out thought’ themselves over the last couple of years as they amassed three commitments for the position – Farnold Degand, Marques Johnson, Javier Gonzalez – while choosing to pass on names like Jai Lucas (Florida) and Chris Warren (Ole Miss).

Warren has been so spectacular that he has a whole list of articles in USA Today that are ‘tagged’ with his name. Last week Warren earned his third SEC Freshman of the Week honors

The Orlando, Fla., native poured in a career-high 26 points at Arkansas on Saturday, his fourth 20-point performance in league play. He single-handedly kept Ole Miss in the game, scoring 18 points in the second half, including 11 straight for the Rebels in the stretch run to cut a 12-point Razorback lead with just under three minutes remaining to a three-point edge with 51 seconds left in the game. The lightning-quick rookie drained six three-pointers (6-of-8), dished out five assists and made three steals in the game.

Warren ranks sixth in the SEC with 18.4 points per game in league play and ninth with a 16.4 average in all games. He also ranks third in assists and three-pointers in all games.

The 5-foot-10, 170-pound guard already seventh in school history with 64 three-pointers made this season, while his 345 points scored are sixth-most by a freshman in the Rebel program’s history.

Additionally, Lucas’ consistency at Florida led the Jacksonville newspaper to feature him last week.

The 5-foot-11 Lucas is averaging 2.4 assists per game, but in SEC play, that number jumps to 2.8 per game, and his 16 turnovers in 10 league games are the fewest among UF’s starters.

That’s proof of Lucas’ good decision-making, according to Donovan.

“He really tries not to turn it over, and generally the biggest problem when you have young guards that are freshmen like that [is] there’s going to be a lot of turnovers,” Donovan said. “So far, they’ve done a pretty good job of taking care of the basketball and understanding that, ‘You know what? If I don’t make the right play or I miss the right play, I’m better off holding onto the ball than I am throwing to somebody and getting it turned over.”

As BJD stated in this significantly important piece last week – Coach Lowe’s job may very well rest on the recruiting class that signs with NC State this coming November with no recruit more important that Raleigh’s very own John Wall at the point guard position.

But, allow me to add a little more to that while noting the obvious – if State lands wall and Trevor Ferguson does not graduate out (forget his ‘playing status’), then the Wolfpack will literally have SIX of THIRTEEN scholarships tied up in players who can play point guard if needed – Wall, Degand, Johnson, Ferguson, Gonzalez and Julius Mays. That is absurd. So, in addition to what State needs to sign in November, the program also desperately needs to do some ‘restructuring’ of scholarships allocation and spacing.

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07-08 Basketball Sidney Lowe

171 Responses to Wake Enters NCAA Tournament Discussion; State Mired in Point Guard Mess of Our Making

  1. PackWolf82 02/18/2008 at 2:21 PM #

    I have questioned Sid’s substitution patterns all season…I mean some of these guys played close to the full 40 last year. Don’t take out a hot player if he’s not in foul trouble. Because us having anyone hot at any point is something we need to milk as much as possible. I think that there would be a definite benefit to leaving Javi in longer to get in rhythm like someone mentioned before. And call me crazy but I sense good things when Ferg comes in. Maybe not gonna light it up, but he plays hard with the energy some starters need to remember. I like his spark albeit a small one.

  2. packgrad93 02/18/2008 at 2:44 PM #

    “What was unnecesary?”

    you bashing Skip, & the name-calling.

  3. 44legend 02/18/2008 at 2:45 PM #

    fergie usually gives us a boost, but he is a little weak…if he’s not hitting a shot, he should probably sit.

    M. Johnson gives us nothing, he should go to Div. 2.

    Fells should have his shot set up 2 or 3 times in the first few possesions. No idea why he passed when down 6 with 30 seconds…just not a heady player at all.

    We might be better when this whole group of Sen. through Sophs moves on.

  4. choppack1 02/18/2008 at 2:58 PM #

    “That’s one reason it’s a bad idea to talk about letting him go so soon. Another reason, which has been stated before, is that even if he were the wrong choice for HC, other coaches would not want to sign at a school that didn’t even give him a chance to begin with. It should take at least 3 years before we start to even think about switching coaches, and 4 before we actually do it IMO. ”

    I think in many cases it’s understandable to give someone 4 years. However, if we don’t make the tourney next year, we should let him go. Thus far, there’s just not a lot of evidence that Lowe is worth keeping around for that 4th year.

    This doesn’t mean that I don’t think that Lowe can’t coach or that I don’t think he can get the job done. I’m just saying that if next year we don’t see some serious improvement and if this year continues to collapse – NC State needs to make a change.

    Historically, NC State waits too long to make changes. We kept Les Robinson around 2 years after he should have been fired. (He actually RESIGNED). We kept MOC after his back to back 3-8 seasons. We kept Herb after his 5th year. The only coach we acted sufficiently fast enough for was Amato. While you’ll hear coaches trot out names like “Beamer” and “Coach K” – in most cases, it doesn’t take 4 years to “turn a program around.”

    Aggrivating our current situation is that we have no past for which to judge Sidney fairly. His previous HC experience for the NBA stunk – but it was w/ expansion teams. He has no college experience. I do think it will be very hard – if not impossible – for Lowe to recruit high school kids for his 4th and 5th class if he hasn’t had any success.

  5. wufpup76 02/18/2008 at 3:00 PM #

    ^i agree, packwolf82 … the entire complexion of the first half of the clemson game changed as soon as hickson and gonzalez came out after the first tv timeout

    of course, when clemson went zone later in the half we had to play fells at the point w/ fergie at the 2 b/c neither gonzalez nor johnson knew what to do against it

    it’s kind of all moot, though … we’re just not that good of a team … as disappointing as it is, clemson is a better team than state this season and it was a hell of an effort by our guys in the second half to come back and take the lead saturday

    disappointing ending, of course, but hopefully efforts like that will continue

    with the point guard issues we’ve had, costner having a subpar season, inconsistent team efforts, player regression (in some cases), i really think it’s quite amazing that we’re anywhere near the “bubble” (though it’s starting to “pop” big time if it hasn’t already)

    this is just not a good team … there’s some individual talent, but a good team they’re not, regardless of preseason expectations … i love them, but we’re just not that good

    i’m as upset as anyone about the state of our season and, moreover, our program, but am more than willing to see what coach lowe can do with it in the next 2-3 seasons

    if by some miracle we win a few games we shouldn’t in the coming weeks and actually make the ncaa tournament then we’d all be fairly happy wouldn’t we?

    hope we don’t get embarassed wed. night

    go pack 😉

  6. Rick 02/18/2008 at 3:09 PM #

    “you bashing Skip, & the name-calling.”

    What in the world are you talking about? I said the current coach is better. How is that bashing. I will stop name calling the minute you quit responding to my posts with “uh uh” or “unnecessary”. You are pathetic.

  7. Rick 02/18/2008 at 3:09 PM #

    “you bashing Skip, & the name-calling.”

    What in the world are you talking about? I said the current coach is better. How is that bashing. I will stop name calling the minute you quit responding to my posts with “uh uh” or “unnecessary”. You are pathetic.

  8. Noah 02/18/2008 at 3:12 PM #

    “Historically, NC State waits too long to make changes. ”

    And how…again, we’ve fired ONE basketball coach in the history of the program.

  9. packgrad93 02/18/2008 at 3:12 PM #

    RPI is currently 60, not good.

  10. Trip 02/18/2008 at 3:14 PM #

    The greatest part about Wednesday night is that if there was ever a best time to beat Carolina in all of our suck, this is it. I believe everyone of Carolina’s starters are injured in some shape.

    http://www.wral.com/sports/story/2450449/

    “Lawson will not play against NC State”

    I hate to beat a team because of injurys, but hell, it’s happened to us enough in the past that it’s about time that we win one based on the other teams injurys. Hansbro has been imposing his will on feet issues, Ginyard is hurting all over, and QT has the flu currently.

    It’s gonna be a dirty game, but honestly if we can’t beat UNC at home on wednesday with the amount of injuries they have, we never will this year or even next barring Lawson/Hansbro leaving.

  11. packgrad93 02/18/2008 at 3:16 PM #

    “The coach they have now is much better than the one they lost. He teaches defense.”

    just not necessary, or true for that matter. Skip was a hell of a coach & had the program set up to suceed with his recruits. I know you can’t help yourself, you’re so used to negatively commenting about coaches.

  12. Greywolf 02/18/2008 at 3:29 PM #

    LRM
    Feb 18th, 2008 at 10:06 am
    Johnson transferred here because of his lack of playing time at Tennessee. There was obviously a reason for that. Why was this not apparent to anyone on our staff?

    LRM, While your questions seems to indict our staff, the answer might not. There are players riding the pine behind outstanding players who could possibly be outstanding given a chance to play. Obviously with internet, oops, I mean 20/20 hindsight, Johnson is not one of those.

    LRM: It’s absolutely an indictment against our staff. These guys evaluated Johnson and gave him a scholarship based on their evaluation, and they have to be held accountable for mistakes because they’re going to get the praise when things go right. My problem with same-tier transfers isn’t isolated, because there’s always a reason a kid isn’t playing.

    choppack1
    Feb 18th, 2008 at 10:08 am
    One reason I’ve defended Javi here is that there is evidence that he’s trying – AND – he’s fought injuries.

    And he’s got some fire in him. It’s actually easy to see why Sid offered him. What’s not to like about someone who plays above his God given talent.

  13. nycfan 02/18/2008 at 3:31 PM #

    A few disconcerting stats (ACC games only) for the Pack:

    * Scoring Margin: -8.3 (last in ACC)

    * FG% Defense: 47.5% (last in the ACC; only 2 teams, UMd and GaT, average shooting over 47.5% in ACC games, so ACC teams are bettering their shooting average against State)

    * 3FG% Defense: 41.4% (11th; no ACC team averages 41.4% 3FG in league play, though 1st place BC is close)

    * Rebounding Margin: -4.2 (11th)

    * TO Margin: -3.45 (11th)

    * Offensive Rebounds: 9.9/game (Last)

    Most of those stats (except TO Margin to an extent) are not PG issues, they are defense and hussle issues. State’s offensive stats tend to be in the top half of the league, it is on the defensive side of the ball that State is struggling in league play. The lack of rebounding for a team that mostly plays man-to-man defense, that has three quality (or formerly quality) big men and two very tall and athletic wing players is particularly gauling.

    I’ve watched a lot of State games this season and I am STILL not certain whether it is lack of effort, poor execution or poor coaching, which probably means a little of all of them.

  14. BJD95 02/18/2008 at 3:32 PM #

    If Lawson doesn’t play, we have a decent shot to stay within 10-15 points. Yay.

  15. boonami 02/18/2008 at 3:33 PM #

    well Wake is definitely great at evaluating talent and recruiting by what they have now, coming in, and what they had (Josh Howard/Chris Paul). I could over look all of our inadequacies if we just played hard. Look at last night.. both teams played hard.. win or lose. It’s an attitude we don’t have and that starts with coaching.

  16. Trip 02/18/2008 at 3:33 PM #

    Johnson was behind arguably one of the best backcourts in the nation when he went to the Vols. So yeah, it would be hard to judge him based solely on his “Riding the pine.”

  17. Noah 02/18/2008 at 3:34 PM #

    “What’s not to like about someone who plays above his God given talent.”

    A lot when all of his combined athletic talents could fit in a teacup.

    As far as Johnson is concerned, there was tape on him from Tennessee and at least one member of our staff had been responsible for recruiting him and saw him play in high school and saw him get abused at the all star camps (which were responsible for his falling rankings).

  18. BillyVest 02/18/2008 at 3:37 PM #

    If we don’t make a post season tournament, either the NCAA’s or NIT – a difinite possiblity – I have lost all patience with Lowe and hope someone fires him.

    We’ve underachieved all year and I don’t see that changing. I don’t see Fells “getting it” and becoming a dominant force, or Costner putting the work in to live up to his potential, or even a guy like Horner getting his three point shooting touch back, which actually wouldn’t be an improvement for Dennis, but rather to get back to where he was when he left high school.

    Bringing back the same guys this year and expecting improvement next year doesn’t seem like much of a plan for success, and that’s basically what we’ll be doing.

    Lowe has had his moments, but to do so little with so much talent really makes me question his ability as a coach, and not even making the NIT’s after this year would be a clincher for me that he has to go.

  19. choppack1 02/18/2008 at 3:38 PM #

    “again, we’ve fired ONE basketball coach in the history of the program.”

    And he’s the one we should have kept. Valvano could have flown straight. Heck, he didn’t fly that crooked, he was just too distracted by other things and brought in sub-par students…nothing that an incentive couldn’t have cured.

  20. choppack1 02/18/2008 at 3:42 PM #

    “I’ve watched a lot of State games this season and I am STILL not certain whether it is lack of effort, poor execution or poor coaching, which probably means a little of all of them.”

    I believe this is the second year in a row we’ve had these problems.

    People thought State would be good because of the way we finished and we were returning 4 starters from that team. Sadly, what we’ve seen so far basically this year is the team that went 5-11 in the ACC last year.

  21. Rick 02/18/2008 at 3:42 PM #

    “just not necessary, or true for that matter. Skip was a hell of a coach & had the program set up to suceed with his recruits. I know you can’t help yourself, you’re so used to negatively commenting about coaches.”

    The thread is about Wake. I beleive their current coach is better. It is NOT bashing to say so. You are stupid beyond belief (hint: that is bashing).

  22. boonami 02/18/2008 at 3:44 PM #

    ^^
    “I have lost all patience with Lowe and hope someone fires him.”

    Why would we fire a coach after two seasons? Give the man at least 4 years and then if we see the same product, you can make a move. Do it now and we’re in worse shape with recruiting than we are now and take even longer to get back to consistent winning play.

  23. packgrad93 02/18/2008 at 3:49 PM #

    next season SHOULD be better IF JJ stays. Losing Grant will hurt a lot, but the other “parts” SHOULD improve. Between Javi & Degand the point will be ok, not great, but ok. Fells at the 2 with Fergie behind. The 4 again has Ben, Costner & Smith. JJ at the 5. The question is who will replace Grant @ the 3? Thomas, Horner (hope not) or CJ? A lot of returning players, Sid with another season of learning under his belt, 2 solid frosh & 2 key players returning from injury. Also low expectations probably.

  24. packgrad93 02/18/2008 at 3:51 PM #

    “You are stupid beyond belief”
    big talk from a keyboard.

  25. packpigskinfan23 02/18/2008 at 3:52 PM #

    Noah- what do you have against Javi?! He plays harder then anyone!!! Did you watch the second half of that Clemson game?! the guy is small, but he is one hell of a scrapper. He can take a charge just as good as the best of them. You have to be somewhat athletic to get more rebonds then anyone else on the team at 5’10”!!! He makes freshman mistakes and he dosn’t have genius level bb IQ. Those are his only downfalls and I would say he is one of the smartest 2 players wearing red this year.

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