2007.03.20_ Big Dose of Bytes

The last week or so has been very good for NC State. We’ve blogged a ton of items and hope that you will take some time to scroll through the blog and make sure that you haven’t missed anything that of interest. Just this weekend we had almost a dozen entries that looked forward and looked back.

Even though we have been quite busy, a lot of comments/observations have fallen through the cracks. The following are some quick bytes that haven’t been shared since the ACC Tournament:

* Much is being made about the ACC’s poor performance in the NCAA Tournament. Although I think the ACC was the most competitive and deepest conference in America (as highlighted by the RPI), the conference’s failure to advance more than one program into the sweet sixteen does not surprise me. We were very deep this season, but it was never a secret that we lacked the “star power” at the top of the league to advance a lot of teams deep into the tournament.

* Despite the league’s struggles this season, you can always turn to history boost the ego. Dave Glenn logged an entry focused on the ACC’s dominance of the modern tournament history that will make you feel better. Just a couple to wet your whistle:

The ACC’s all-time NCAA Tournament winning percentage (.674) is significantly better than any other conference. The Big East (.625) is second, the Big Ten (.621) third and the Pac-10 (.609) fourth. Nobody else is over 60 percent.

Since 1980, when the NCAA lifted its limits on the number of participants per conference, the ACC has had just one losing season in NCAA Tournament play (5-6 in 1987) and has a success rate over 66 percent. Again, nobody else is close.

Since the field expanded to 64 teams in 1985, the ACC has had 111 teams in the NCAA Tournament, about the same as the Big East (116). Yet the ACC has 221 wins in that span — 35 more than the Big East. The Big Ten has had 124 participants since 1985 yet has 42 fewer wins. The SEC, with 110 participants, has 61 fewer wins. The Pac-10 has less than half as many NCAA wins as the ACC in the modern era. Since the Big 12 formed in 1996, it trails the ACC 96-72.

The ACC has won three of the last six (50 percent) national championships, with three different teams — Duke in 2001, Maryland in 2002, and North Carolina in 2005. The league also has won six of the last 16 (37.5 percent) NCAA titles, and eight of the last 25 (32 percent).

* UNC-CH had to play ABOVE their normal game to beat us in the Atlantic Coast Conference Championship. That’s a compliment, folks.

* The selection of Brendan Wright over Brandon Costner as the ACC Tournament’s MVP was ridiculous. I realize to the victor goes the spoils, except that I remember in 1983 when NC State won the NCAA title and yet Akeem was the Final 4 MVP. I guess only NC State gets a shaft like that.

* It was interesting to hear that many, many VT fans were pulling for UNC in the ACC. Tells you that they are indeed a newcomer and don’t understand basketball in their new league. I had heard that many VT folks were ‘VT football fans but UNC basketball fans’ – guess that was true.

* If I could have chosen the (non-Big Four) team for NC State to sweep this season then it would have been Virginia Tech. As I said in a comment on February 1st:

As likable as Seth Greenburg is, his propensity to publicly comment on NC State’s coaching situation (Herb Sendek) last year really rubbed me the wrong way. He talked A LOT on Fox Sports radio, etc about the situation in Raleigh and was too critical of Wolfpackers for my liking. IMHO, he would have been better served to have kept his mouth shut. In 2005, Greenberg defeated a deep and experienced Wolfpack coached Herb Sendek in their first battle in Cassell Coliseum. In 2007, Greenberg lost a thin and inexperienced Wolfpack team coached by Sidney Lowe. I guess I don’t blame him for loving Sendek so much.

* One of the biggest winners of the last two weeks has been Dennis Horner. The kid is making some clutch shots and is learning how to create his own shot more easily in the flow of the offense. Costner is a given, but Horner will be a critical role player over the next few years.

* The other big winner is obviously Sidney Lowe. Some are comparing Sid’s run to Herb’s in 1997 in believe that this will put some additional pressure on Sidney to produce better results more quickly. That may be true, but I also think that Sidney is more prepared to elevate the program more quickly because of his recruiting philosophy differs from Sendek’s. In addition to his communication style with players and his inability to coach offense, Sendek struggled for his next 4 years because he effectively ignored North Carolina High School talent and opted to cash his ‘rising star’ chips on kids with no local ties like Adam Harrington. When something goes wrong for kids like these, their first instinct is to transfer as they have nothing binding them to the area or the school. This created significant turmoil and trouble in Sendek’s tenure. Coach Lowe has already shown that NC kids are an important cog in his philosophy (Johnny Thomas, CJ Williams, and even Tracy Smith). Te stability that these kids will create in addition to huge marketing boost fromt he last couple of weeks will serve Sidney well.

* Sidney became THE story over the last few weeks, which is much different than when Herb did this in 1997. College coaches are stars, they are mega-stars when they win big (Roy, K). Lowe has elevated himself in the national media tremendously over the past 4 days. His exposure and recognition factors have grown exponentionally – its not a Amex (K) or Coke (Roy) commercial, but the red jacket and Sid Lowe scored major points in the visibility factor.

* That will help tremendously in recruiting. We arent going to be stealing players from Roy and K, but many of those will at least look at Sid, and I think he’s already elevated himself to the #3 or #4 in the ACC in terms of visibility.

* Its funny, Gary Walters talked about the unbalanced Big 12 schedule on why Texas Tech got into the NCAA over K-State. I don’t give a shit about either team, but did the committee look at UVA’s unbalanced ACC schedule when they gave them a 4 seed despite their RPI that indicated they would be somehere around an 8 or 9 seed? They had the EASIEST schedule within the ACC. They completely folded down the stretch, losing to Miami, Wake and NC State in 3 of their last 4 games. (All 100+ RPI teams). Yet, they get a 4 seed? With an RPI if 52?

* Piece of advice – if you use a computer program (Yahoo, ESPN, etc) to track your NCAA Tournament brackets, ALWAYS re-check to make sure that your edits/changes have been saved properly. I made some changes to be bracket in SFN’s Yahoo Group that ultimately did not save. Of course, most of the changes would have been positive for me and would have put me tied for first place. Oh well.

* F- Wes Miller and Ty Lawson

* The ACC’s poor performance in the NCAA will hurt all of our checkbooks in the coming years. This is a GREAT article explaining he NCAA’s impact on ACC finances.

* Of course, what would a game day be without Section Six’s preview?

There is a certain amount of comfort that comes with playing West Virginia, comfort that is derived from this fact: the Mountaineers suck at rebounding just as much as we do. It’s like finding a familiar face in a foreign town. “Boy am I glad to see you!”

Those other teams, they’re tough. But not you, sweet, sweet West Virginia. Not you. You kindly offer opponents their missed shots while keeping none of your own for yourself.

When we played WVU back in early December, we had one of our best offensive rebounding performances of the season, grabbing 37% of our misses. Mountaineer opponents have posted an OR% over 40.0 eleven times this season (Wolfpack opponents have done it seven times). West Virginia has at least managed some improvement at the offensive end, upping its OR% from 21.3% to 30.4% this season. That’s still terrible, but it’s a step up from inept (and it’s better than our OR%).

With the two teams shooting and rebounding about the same in the first meeting, turnovers meant the difference. NC State turned the ball over 17 times (nine of those were Gavin’s) while WVU gave it away seven times

06-07 Basketball General

200 Responses to 2007.03.20_ Big Dose of Bytes

  1. CedarGroveWolf 03/20/2007 at 10:44 AM #

    “No, it’s your own reality, that’s all”

    which part isn’t true, unc & duke being the top 2 programs? K & Roy being the top 2 coaches? unc/duke getting 90% of the kids they want? please tell me.

  2. chris92heel 03/20/2007 at 10:46 AM #

    Cocaine use was prevalent in the 70’s among athletes. It wasn’t a ‘black’ thing.

    UNC didn’t recruit Costner hard. Roy did try and recruit Simmons, but it was too late when he got here. Not sure what Doh was thinking on that one.

  3. primacyone 03/20/2007 at 10:46 AM #

    1) There is really no coaching comparison between the 1997 ACCT run and the 2007 ACCT run. Both groups of kids stepped up, but as far as the actual coaching goes – two completly different scenarios with no comparison. I will say this, we did not run the not the princeton offense in 1997 and we will not run it in 2008.

    2) Florida, Tenn, Kentucky, and Alabama went hard core after JJ Hickson and he’s running with the Pack. USoCal and OKSt. went hard core after Tracy Smith and he will be running with the pack. All of those schools were pushing to the last day for both of those recruits and they are running with pack. I’ve heard that UNC put on a giant push and full court press for CJ prior to our comitment, but he will be running with the pack. I would think it say’s something about the fundamental intelligence of these kids that they recognized what Sidney Lowe brings to the table that early.

    3) There are 24 college teams still playing basketball and the Pack is one of those teams – and we have no bench and an injured point guard. Give Roy our team, would he still be playing ball?

    4) It wouldn’t be a shocker if we beat UNC AND DUKE again next year. When is the last time you could say that? When is that last time they feared us. I can tell you this – when we came back from down 16 against UNC in the ACCT – they were not shocked, they were scared.

    5) I picked every team in the sweet 16 on my yahoo bracket, but that dang yahoo didn’t save mine either.

  4. CedarGroveWolf 03/20/2007 at 10:46 AM #

    “I don’t care where the players come from. Just get good players and get results. It’s a bottom-line business!”

    exactly. Herb could have gotten his playerss from the moon, if he’d won more it wouldn’t have mattered.

  5. westwolf 03/20/2007 at 10:47 AM #

    Where’s that image of the road showing two choices?

  6. CedarGroveWolf 03/20/2007 at 10:48 AM #

    “Not sure what Doh was thinking on that one.”
    Herb got in way early on Ced. I guess you think if Doh had wanted Ced he’d gone to unc.

  7. cedarblockhead 03/20/2007 at 10:53 AM #

    Here is the reality

    UNC and Duke are levels above us and we can not hope to compete on their level. They are the bestest coaches ever. Just ask Fowler he knows basketball better than all of us flunkies and he had admitted it publicly.
    They get 91.1% of the players that they want that we also want as long as the player is not lefthanded. Then it is 91.2%.

    Listen to my truth and believe it and you will finally understand. Just like I told you if we had given Herb a few more years he would have gotten us to that glorious promised land. This year is proof of that. Look how succesful his players have been.
    If they had been running the Princeotn offense (as they were recruited to) then they would have averaged about 82 ppg while shooting 57.6% from the field. It was the “destiny” year this year.

  8. westwolf 03/20/2007 at 10:54 AM #

    Primacyone–that is an EXCELLENT post. You’ve absolutely hit the nail on the head.

  9. choppack1 03/20/2007 at 10:55 AM #

    RickJ – A former Carolina fan or still one? You seem to be really up on all of their recruiting….There’s a lot of gray in recruiting. One thing about a Carolina fan, they’ll tell you that any kid that signs w/ another school either couldn’t get in to school or they didn’t want him.

    Dean did recruit Washburn. Kenny Williams – a former Deano recruit – was so bright, he never even graduated from high school. If Noah says that Dean wanted Thompson, I believe him. I suspect he wanted Walker – because he had a golden boy rep, was a good shooter and a McD AA.

    I don’t know if Dean recruited Rodney, but he was a Top 25 talent, so I would have been surprised if he didn’t at least contact him.

    Whatever…what is important is that as you correctly stated – you don’t need to beat UNC head to head win a national championship or even beat them. There are a lot of good basketball players out there, but you can only use so many scholarships.

    Like I said, I don’t believe that Chapel Hill is unbeatable when it comes to the recruiting game unless the kid is a Tar Heel fan. Unfortunately, a lot of kids are.

  10. noah 03/20/2007 at 10:56 AM #

    “Cocaine use was prevalent in the 70’s among athletes. It wasn’t a ‘black’ thing.”

    I don’t have it at my fingertips, but I used “black athletes” for a reason. There was a survey done by a group in the 1990s of drug usage (legal and illegal) during the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s and 1980s among professional athletes. Steroids, coke, pot, barbituates, amphetimines…everything.

    It broke it down by age, race, nationality and gender.

    There were a few spikes in the gender category, but it was assumed that those were statistical anomalies and they were not getting good sample rates since there are fewer professional women athletes.

    Drug usage was pretty consistent from a racial standpoint. I remember that damn near everyone used greenies in the 1960s. But there was a big spike for cocaine usage among black athletes. So that’s why I mentioned it…

    This came up on a baseball blog over the winter. I’ll see if I can find it.

  11. BJD95 03/20/2007 at 10:57 AM #

    Ced was the rare kid who really wanted to go to NC State. My mother taught school in Brunswick County, and noticed a tall kid shooting baskets on the playground. She told him that he needed to go to NC State. Ced replied, “Yes ma’am, I hope so. I’ve always wanted to go there.”

  12. westwolf 03/20/2007 at 10:59 AM #

    98.7% of those who follow college basketball believe that State has made a tremendous upgrade in head coach from last year to this year.

  13. shellnc 03/20/2007 at 10:59 AM #

    Ced wanted to come to State. He was gift wrapped to Sendek, but milktoast did not know how to utilize the gift and he squandered the gift and poof, he got nothing from the gift.

    6-11 players aren’t meant to float around the arc. Sendek would not adapt his offense around the tools that he had. He wanted to chop down trees with a shovel and dig holes with an ax. He somehow thought this made him look like a cerebral coach, but all it did was make him look stupid.

  14. westwolf 03/20/2007 at 11:01 AM #

    ^73.9% of residence of Mebane disagree.

  15. joe 03/20/2007 at 11:01 AM #

    Recruiting a player is not the same as offering them a scholarship. Dean certainly recruited Washburn because he contacted him. I guess it’s debatable if he got an offer from UNC.

  16. westwolf 03/20/2007 at 11:05 AM #

    Yes, Dean probably contacted the most physically talented 6 ’10 guy in the nation to ask his opinion about Coke or Pepsi.

  17. westwolf 03/20/2007 at 11:07 AM #

    If Dean was willing to give a scholarship to Sheed and McGinnis, why wouldn’t he offer Washburn?

  18. noah 03/20/2007 at 11:09 AM #

    Back in the mid-80s, you got recruiting info from a very small number of places. You knew someone involved with a program, you subscribed to the quarterly ACC basketball recruiting handbook, or you listened to sports radio when they had someone on who knew what they were talking about.

    WPTF had a show called Sportsline that Gary Dornburg hosted. It came on in the evening (7 p.m. to 8 p.m., I think) and my dad and I would listen to it together.

    I remember very specifically hearing about the commitments from Washburn and John Thompson on Sportsline. This was after they had committed (Hell, they may have already signed. Had the info come via a guy running from town to town, it would have gotten there faster).

    I believe the guest was Brick Oettinger, but he said that we had picked up Washburn and that he was someone that “everyone wanted.” And then he said that we had picked up a power-forward named John Thompson.

    He mentioned that Washburn was the top recruit coming into the ACC, Duane Ferrell (GT) and Derrick Lewis (Maryland) were the next best recruits and Thompson was the fourth-best recruit.

    I have absolutely no idea what happened to Thompson. He was here for about two years, didn’t play much, but I don’t remember why. Seems like he transferred to VCU or ODU, but I never remember hearing a thing about him.

    I remember Russell Pierre transferring to VPI and having eligibility problems. I remember Rodney Butts flunking out. I remember Walker Lambiotte and Andy Kennedy not getting a minute of playing time late in the 1987 season and making rude comments about V as they headed out the door. I remember Sean Green and Byron Tucker complaining about playing time (which was odd, considering how MUCH PT they were getting). But Thompson slipped through and I don’t remember anything at all about him.

  19. joe 03/20/2007 at 11:09 AM #

    Bob Gibbons said that Washburn would be a big problem for any school he went to – and he was right. Maybe that’s why Dean didn’t offer him. It’s amazing that Washburn made it to his 2nd year at NCSU before he left.

  20. chris92heel 03/20/2007 at 11:12 AM #

    “Herb got in way early on Ced. I guess you think if Doh had wanted Ced he’d gone to unc.”

    I guess you’re making ridiculous assumptions.

  21. cedarblockhead 03/20/2007 at 11:12 AM #

    “Ced wanted to come to State. He was gift wrapped to Sendek, but milktoast did not know how to utilize the gift and he squandered the gift and poof, he got nothing from the gift.’

    Squandered?
    He used Ced to lead us to the the 5th is a row NCAA tournament. He showcased his abilities in such a way that he was a top draft pick. What more can you want?

    The brilliance of Herb is that he used Ced in an unconventional manner. If he had parked Ced down low where he was most effective, then the other team’s big man would be there to block shots. By pulling Ced to the three point line (where he was more awkward) he kept the other center from blocking all of our layups and backdoor cuts.
    That is the beauty of the Princeton offense (or as I like to refer to it – “the offense too smart for a normal man”).

  22. joe 03/20/2007 at 11:12 AM #

    I think 30% of the callers to Sportsline would say “When is your next recruiting show?” The cohost Dick Herbert refused to talk about recruting at all and Dornburg would not talk about it much. So fans had to wait for 1 or 2 shows a month to talk about it.

    Of course now talk radio is not needed with 5000 recruiting websites.

  23. westwolf 03/20/2007 at 11:15 AM #

    ^^Yes, and Bob Gibbons said that McGinnis would be a fine addition to the modern poetry department, so Dean decided to offer.

  24. chris92heel 03/20/2007 at 11:16 AM #

    Another former listener of Sportsline here. I was a big fan of Gary Dornburg. Back then, it was the Poop Sheet, PrepStars, and the occasional talk radio guest for recruiting info. Bob Gibbons is still bitter at the internets.

    Later in the show they had another North Carolina recruiting guy who used to come on — I forget his name, but he was a black guy with a very strong black southern accent.

  25. noah 03/20/2007 at 11:18 AM #

    Something else I remember about the class of 1984….the top three guys were: Danny Manning, Chris Washburn and John Thompson (the one from Crenshaw, not the one from Tulane).

    Manning went to Kansas, of course. Washburn, we know about. And John Thompson went to LSU.

    I remember reading an article about those three in Street & Smith or TSN. It described them as having PERFECT bodies for basketball. And the writer said you could basically put their names in a hat and just pull out one at random and that would be your top guy.

    All three had varying levels of success. Manning won a national title his senior year and went to a final four as a freshman. John Williams went to the Final Four iiiiin…1986? And Washburn had a great sophomore season and had he not been the nuke laloosh of basketball, would have enjoyed much, much more.

    John Williams ended up with the Bullets and was doing very well until blowing out his knee, gaining a ton of weight and being known as “Hot Plate” Williams.

    The #4 and #5 players that year were Delray Brooks and Gary Grant. Brooks was out of Chicago and horribly, horribly overrated. He started out at IU and ended up transferring to Providence. Gary Grant was a star at Michigan and was an Olympian in 1988.

    BTW, the #1 player in the Class of 1985 was Tito Horford…father of current Florida star Al Horford.

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