Shocking – Lee Fowler Still Doesn’t Get It

Lodged deep within the N&O’s write-up of the upcoming Wolfpack hoops season (all WTNY, all the time, just like the buffoonish duo of Fowler and Lowe want it) is this little gem from Fowler’s always jabbering mouth:

Too many times, loyalty’s a one-way street. Fans want the coach to be loyal to them, but they’re not loyal to the coach.

Pardon my language, but this is the biggest crock of shit Lee Fowler has ever served up (and that’s really saying something). It’s a perfect microcosm of his asinine philosophy – by being “loyal” and almost never firing anybody, no matter how weak the results, he believes he will get “loyalty” in return. That is, should one of his coaches turns out to have a clue, they’ll stick around and not seek other jobs or ask for a raise. Seriously – that’s how this man “thinks.”

Assuming you have an IQ above room temperature, you understand that 21st century college athletics is a big business, not a “Mom and Pop” operation. Hell, that’s been true for almost fifty years. And no, Lee, the vast majority of fans (again, with the room temperature vs. IQ caveat) don’t want loyalty. They want results. And frankly, I expect the ones that get those results to be paid commensurately with what they deliver. That’s why I have been a paying member of the Wolfpack Club since the day I graduated – so that we have the resources to attract and keep winners.

Of course, you can imagine what kind of coaches are attracted to the “no pressure, we just want loyalty!” ground rules. That’s right, coaches who can’t hack it on the open market. Where winning brings financial reward, and losing brings a pink slip. The most determined, driven, and ultimately successful coaches aren’t worried about failure. They don’t need Clueless Lee’s security blanket. And that’s why Wolfpack athletics will be stuck in a seemingly endless cycle of mediocrity.

We learned last spring that at least one major donor values having a golf buddy over leadership that strives for championships. And apparently the other heavy hitters who feel otherwise don’t feel it strongly enough to draw a line in the sand. You and I can’t change that sad state of affairs, but you can stop enabling this twisted regime.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

09-10 Basketball AD & Department Coaches NC State Administration Sidney Lowe

123 Responses to Shocking – Lee Fowler Still Doesn’t Get It

  1. Cardiff Giant 11/12/2009 at 11:32 AM #

    What’s amazing are the high numbers of mentally donkey-punched types on the PPride boards who see absolutely nothing wrong with this comment, or even approve of it. It must be Stockholm Syndrome.

  2. Khan 11/12/2009 at 11:40 AM #

    “One more item. Some say that Fowler doesn’t listen. I have emailed and called Fowler’s office at times with complaints and have always received a response.”

    Did your response go something like this?:

    “Thank you for your comments. God bless and go Pack.”

  3. choppack1 11/12/2009 at 11:46 AM #

    hball – on a personal level – it’s great that he does that.

    However, I have never, ever heard him acknowledge the undeniable fact that NC State fans have a very rational reason to be pissed off.

    When was the last time we won a conference championship in a revenue producing sport – specifically football, men’s or women’s basketball or baseball?

    The truth of the matter is that if we were good in men’s basketball or football – and we had let’s say, just won 4 championships in those sports alone since 1987 – I think Lee would be shocked w/ how reasonable some of would become and how much less toxic the atmosphere would be.

    Finally, I’m not a big fan of a stupid word like “loyalty.” Loyalty should be a two way street…And let’s face it, Lee has been rewarded by NC State for his loyalty. TOB and Sid have been rewarded for theirs?

    When do the fans get payback for their loyalty. Heck, I think the fact that when we played UMd, we still had over 45K speaks alot to the “loyalty” for NC State fans.

    But what’s in the Lee fowler regime for us?

  4. Rick 11/12/2009 at 11:48 AM #

    “hball, fwiw,

    I too, took the comments as a general statement about fans

    I really dont see any problem with the article”

    If you look at these comments in a bubble then you could take them that way. When looked at from a historical perspective with LF then IMO there is only one way to look at them. LF has a history of disdain for the very people paying his salary.

    At the very least he should know enough not to say anything that could be misconstrued. He is either an idiot or a zealot.

  5. Wolf74 11/12/2009 at 11:53 AM #

    To me, it appears Fowler has a problem with fans. Probably that stems from the fact that fans have expectations of the sports programs they support and he evidently does not. Because of this it also appears that he like to take given opportunities to get in his jabs at the fans.

    This I can understand because if I were as poor at doing my job as he has been, I would be trying to deflect any observations from myself to whatever or whoever I could. When he finally finds another school that will give him a job, is run out of Raleigh, or retires, it will be years too late.

  6. BJD95 11/12/2009 at 12:00 PM #

    Beyond taking shots at fans (that didn’t even register to me on first reading), the main crux is his apparent business model. Completely not suited to major college athletics in the 21st century.

  7. mafpack 11/12/2009 at 12:00 PM #

    A polite and intelligent conversation on Fowler, finally.

    One thing to consider, this was pointed out to me by a UNC fan that sits a cube over (yay…), is that as a public forum, both this blog and the forums specifically, are more than visible to the outside world. That world also includes our recruits.

    I would contend that those of us that frequent SFN have been nothing but positive about the recruits themselves, especially our more high profile and exciting guys like Ryan signing his LOI yesterday.

    However, I do want those that comment here to remember that those recruits see all of our posts, on every topic and post that runs here. They see the constant whining (and yes I’m referring to the whining I see here, not the well reasoned valid argument’s backed by precedent like BJD’s original post or some of the fantastic work WVWolf does) and complaining that goes on here. In my opinion, that body of work reflects poorly on NC State, it’s fan base and it’s reputation.

    Do I think Lee is a tool, of course, the man should have been removed a long time ago. Is a public campaign like this one the only way to see him removed from his position? It’s a distinct possibility. Have we tried all other options to see our school improve… maybe? That’s where I’m not sure to be honest – is there any other way then bashing our school’s reputation and our student athletes performances over and over again to see him removed?

    If not, then let the war drums continue to rumble, but if so, I’d so much rather see any other option utilized.

    I’m not sure about the rest of you guys/gals, but my frenemies over at UNX often bring up blogs like this one and the comments made here as ammo against our school and specifically against the poor quality of it’s fan base – are they just being creative or are we providing easy targets? We can point out our awesome giving and monetary support… but if our public comments are always tinted negatively, is that how we’re actually being perceived by the majority of people?

    /shrug

    Just some thoughts I’ve had for a while. Thanks again for the spot on updates SFN, seeing Ryan signing at Sammy’s yesterday was awesome!

  8. tvp1 11/12/2009 at 12:02 PM #

    BJD: Fowler’s comment makes perfect sense, actually. It’s in the context of this WTNY article. This is all laying the groundwork for excusing another terrible season.

    If you want to know why some of us are not very excited about the upcoming basketball season, look no further than the public comments of SL and LF. They are preparing the masses for another season of .500 or worse basketball, and telling us that we should have no expectations for this year whatsoever. If you criticize the poor performance (in year 4!) you are disloyal.

    How many “season preview” type articles lead with discussion of a recruit that won’t be here until the NEXT YEAR?

  9. WV Wolf 11/12/2009 at 12:02 PM #

    The guy who has gone after several other AD jobs over the years wants to lecture the fans on loyalty. Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

    Other than Herb, has there even been a coach since Ray Tanner that another school has come in and made a better offer? I honestly don’t remember, maybe there has. But it seems like the issue of loyalty doesn’t even come up because other schools aren’t interested in our coaches.

    And as far as Lee Fowler responding to e-mails, I once sent him a lengthy, detailed e-mail concerning the annual report that really took a lot of time and effort and all I got back was “Thanks for your support and comments! Go Pack!”

    mafpack, thanks for the compliment, I appreciate that.

  10. Alpha Wolf 11/12/2009 at 12:10 PM #

    MAFPack, to borrow from WV Wolf a bit, you should tell your UNC friends that before they use blogs and message boards to characterize NC State’s fans, they should look at their own boards and blogs. It isn’t like it is always peaches and cream and a 1960’s love-in at the Playboy mansion over in their world. In other words, pot, kettle, black, Heel fans.

    Other than that, your points are well taken.

  11. Pack Mentality 11/12/2009 at 12:14 PM #

    We should also remember that throwing small veiled insults at NC State fans, alumni, etc, might not be that big of a deal in a single instance. You can play it off like that isn’t really what you meant. However, over a period of time these small negative comments here and there subconsciously get into people’s head in the general public. This could mean the smart high school kid who is on the fence about choosing between NC State or another school. So yes, these comments greatly affect NC State in more than just sports.

  12. mafpack 11/12/2009 at 12:14 PM #

    Welcome WV, it’s well deserved.

    As a thought too, going off of what tvp just pointed out, did anyone else notice TOB’s change in attitude after the Maryland win? “I won’t pull another Pittsburgh on um, we’re going to celebrate the win” – I think that was his quote.

    College athletes are emotional creatures to say the least, and thankfully TOB is smart enough to change his rhetoric with his own team… which leads me to my actual point.

    Why would LF and SL START the season with a ‘ho hum, we may or may not be good, probably not, we’ll see, ho hum’ attitude – like our own negativity isn’t it just a self fulfilling prophecy? Dangit.

    Edit:

    Alpha – very good point! And I do point back to their own Daugherty years and how quickly they turned on a coach/team that didn’t meet their own lofty expectations. Sadly they just fire back with, ‘and we were right, we got Roy, now look at the team.’ Can’t really argue there.

  13. Daily Update 11/12/2009 at 12:22 PM #

    Mafpack: You think UNC fans and their coaches use comments on message boards against us when they have the horrific results of our athletic programs to use against us instead?

    What do you think concerns football and basketball recruits more – the fact that we are in danger of finishing in last place in both sports or message boards?

    You have to be kidding.

  14. Alpha Wolf 11/12/2009 at 12:30 PM #

    MAFPack,

    Let them fire back on that, and then reply, but what about after you lost to Kansas in the Final Four? There was plenty of “Roy can’t get it done” and then to top that, that very Monday night, there was that whole hoo haw over Roy wearing a Kansas sticker on his shirt to show solidarity with the team he once coached. (I’m pretty sure some of his recruits still played there, too.)

    They weren’t exactly kind to Bunting, and they’ve climbed all over Butch Davis at times too.

    Bottom line is that Heel fans can be just as bad as anyone and just as hypocritical as anyone in their perception of themselves and others.

  15. budfox88 11/12/2009 at 12:34 PM #

    Just an observation…seems to me the quote from LF illustrates his persistent avoidance in ownership and committment to NCS. Prediction: as long as the pack does poorly on the field/court, LF will continue his analyses in 3rd party, dumping on the fans/players/donors. If our teams should improve miraculously, LF’s comments will come out in 1st party where he/coaches can accept credit. LF needs to check his own loyalty when he picks up his paycheck, I’m sure it’s not signed by either SL or TOB, or the N&O either. DICK SHERIDAN FOR AD!!!!!!

  16. pack44fan 11/12/2009 at 12:35 PM #

    Seem to recall that UNC students hung Dean Smith in effigy back in the 60’s….just saying.

  17. BJD95 11/12/2009 at 12:37 PM #

    First, the sucking is always going to be the primary detriment/negative recruiting tool. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak – and “hope” is not a plan.

    Second, EVERY SINGLE FANBASE has their share of gripes, and in the age of the internet, they WILL be voiced (truthfully, they always have been, just used to be in the form of talk radio, letters to the editor, etc.). None of this is in any way unique to NC State. What is unique to NC State is having leadership ACT LIKE our unrest is somehow novel (Did you notice the Hole AD on the radio and in the paper lamenting about his fans booing during the Thursday night home football loss to FSU? me neither.) and/or unreasonable, which turns it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. THAT is what can hurt NC State.

    Of course, Fowler and company either (i) don’t really care about that (because it provides them yet another excuse to escape any accountability); and/or (ii) are really f-ing stupid and believe they can fundamentally alter human nature on a very broad scale by their dumb assed chiding.

  18. hball57 11/12/2009 at 12:40 PM #

    To be fair, I believe Lowe has been positive about the prospects of his team. He has backed off from intimating any win totals, which I think is wise with a young team, but he has been positive nonetheless. I cerainly do not think we are the last place team in this conference.

  19. Ed89 11/12/2009 at 12:47 PM #

    “(all WTNY, all the time, just like the buffoonish duo of Fowler and Lowe want it)”

    It’s bad enough for certain mods to be so consistently negative about Fowler, but when you lump Sidney into the equation in the first sentence, it is out of line. We haven’t played a single basketball game this year, and a moderator of a STATE FAN site is calling the coach a buffoon? I quit reading after the first sentence, because it reeks of a name-calling “agenda.” I know you think your negativity and anti-Fowler sentiment gives you hits, but I quit reading after that first, unwarranted sentence. Alpha, I enjoy most all of your thoughtful posts. However, the author of this post has an agenda, and it’s a tired, old message.

    Hball57, I’m in your camp.

    On the flip side, we have now won 2 games versus Atlantic Division opponents in 3 years with our current footbal coach. Why the double-standard? Please don’t use his record at BC against Lowe’s record as an NBA expansion team coach. I think it goes a little deeper, if you know what I mean.

  20. GAWolf 11/12/2009 at 12:48 PM #

    I would just like to say I love this conversation. It’s a microcosm of so many underling debates that have occurred during my lifetime as an almost-always-disappointed Pack fan.

    A few things/cliches come to mind:

    Set ’em up. Knock ’em down. It is what it is. Resistance is futile. Blind faith. The parental “like it because I told you to.” And of course, Cardiff’s excellent comparison: Stockholm Syndrome.

    You guys are just great. On both sides. For different reasons.

  21. legacyman 11/12/2009 at 12:48 PM #

    “just like the buffoonish duo of Fowler and Lowe…”

    Perhaps most of you missed this little slam at Sidney. Coach Lowe is doing a great job of bringing us back from the despair of the last fifteen or so years. Witness the outpouring of glee at the signing of Ryan Harrow yesterday…do you think all of those folks are buffoons?

  22. cooldrip 11/12/2009 at 12:51 PM #

    My loyalty lies with NCSU, and not with any one coach employed there. If Fowler’s loyalty was equally placed, we wouldn’t have these conversations about continuing ineptitude on the part of some of our coaching staffs; the desire to see NCSU succeed would have already forced changes. Fowler’s loyalty is misplaced in my view, and that’s the reason I desire a change in the AD’s office.

  23. GAWolf 11/12/2009 at 12:58 PM #

    I’d also like to say, I’m a mod and I have some modicum of hope in our basketball program. So is Daily Update. Look at the actual post on Harrow. You guys lumping all of the mods into the same boat here are just as guilty as anyone of the same offense you’re moaning about now.

    Most all of us agree that Lee Fowler is a hapless dolt. If you think otherwise, well… birds of a feather. I guess.

    I’ve talked to some of coaches who are savvy enough not to complain about their boss in public but who don’t seem to get all cheery when the guy’s name is mentioned. And that’s for a guy who they KNOW won’t fire them regardless of how poor they may or may not perform. The coaches in our department who are worth a damn… and we have several in my eyes… see Fowler for what he is: AN ANCHOR AT BEST. Those who “suck out loud” to paraphrase BJD, well they support him blindly like anyone would who has no desire to do anything but maintain the status quo because it’s the easy thing to do.

    As for our coaches, there is one I REALLY like who sometimes gets disparaged here. I do my best to counter what I personally believe to be flawed arguments by some of the other mods. But that’s the beauty of SFN. It’s a GROUP of moderators who have different opinions and who are NOT beholden, financially or otherwise, to any one particular portion of or to the entirety of our athletic department. Hence you get here open discussion… whether that be positive or negative…. about our athletics department, its teams, and their performance.

    If you want some misinformation shoved down your throats, there are places for that. The very nature of this site proves there is no “agenda.” With multiple moderators, many of who have never met in person, it’s simply not possible for such a thing to exist. If we all agree, it’s a unanimous OPINION which you as a member of the community here are allowed to agree with or disagree with. Even better yet, you are allowed to discuss that openly and freely here. I see nothing similar or even close to being on the same level to this website in the NC State sports community as far as objective and open discussion about all things NC State sports.

    There’s no hidden/paid information. You get the benefit of a large group of moderators all with various connections to NC State sports who spend way too much time CARING about what happens to it.

    If you take a step back and look objectively at this scenario, you can come to no other conclusion… IN MY OPINION.

  24. BJD95 11/12/2009 at 1:11 PM #

    Yep, we are ALL different. And we ALL will speak our minds about it.

    There is no double standard with Tom O’Brien, who I most certainly HAVE criticized this season. I will give him a mulligan for this season (the first where the program was behind schedule and failed to meet reasonable expectations) – just as I gave Lowe a mulligan for his Hindenburg Year Two. But you see, Lowe’s defenders want me to pre-emptively give him a pass for THREE CONSECUTIVE SEASONS of abject failure (Years 2-4). That isn’t acceptable to me, and wouldn’t be acceptable at almost any major D-1 school other than Lee Fowler’s NC State.

    For the record, I coined the phrase “Chuck the Clown” well ahead of the tidal wave of discontent (I call Lowe a buffoon far less frequently, although I think the shoe fits). That’s just part of my blogging style. You don’t have to like it. But I call ’em like I see ’em.

  25. GAWolf 11/12/2009 at 1:16 PM #

    And I personally am of the opinion that if TOB does not act on Archer at season’s end then I’m officially no longer a fan of his. I just simply see not other reason to ever be optimistic about NC State football under TOB AND ARCHER. However, I do still have great admiration for TOB… but it’s waning. A failure to act on Archer, he’s lost me. Even still… I’d love nothing more than if ARcher stays for me to have to get back on here and eat some crows because we lead the ACC in scoring defense next year. It just won’t happen… ever… on his watch.

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