Dienhart: ‘Expect a breakout this fall’

A couple of years ago we highlighted various media exercises where Tom O’Brien was garnering praise and high rankings. It may be worth some of your time to do a little surfing.

As you can see from some of the previous links, Tom Dienhart was writing for The Sporting News in the past. Today, Dienhart writes for SI.com and has reprised his rankings of ACC Coaches. (Link)

You have to give Dienhart major ‘props’ for exhibiting a trait with which that most media members struggle mightily – consistency. Two years ago, Dienhart ranked Tom O’Brien #3 in the ACC…and, without any reason to make a change…he does the same thing this year.

1. Jim Grobe, Wake Forest
2. Frank Beamer, Virginia Tech

3. Tom O’Brien, N.C. State

There are few better coaches in the nation than the perpetually underrated O’Brien, who thrives on running a smart, disciplined program. He was 75-45 at Boston College from 1997-2006. Unappreciated in Chestnut Hill, O’Brien is starting to turn around the Wolfpack, going 11-14 in his first two years. He was at his best last fall, when he rallied the Wolfpack from a 2-6 start to four consecutive victories and a bowl trip. Expect a breakout this fall.

4. Paul Johnson, Georgia Tech
5. Butch Davis, North Carolina
6. Bobby Bowden, Florida State
7. Al Groh, Virginia
8. Ralph Friedgen, Maryland
9. David Cutcliffe, Duke
10. Dabo Swinney, Clemson
11. Randy Shannon, Miami
12. Frank Spaziani, Boston College

Note that Dienhart – whose list includes some interesting tidbits and rationale for each coach – ranks David Cutcliffe in 9th position. This is a rationale departure from ESPN’s Heather Dinich’s love for Duke’s coach that we discussed in this related entry from last year that you should check out.

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83 Responses to Dienhart: ‘Expect a breakout this fall’

  1. turfpack 04/13/2009 at 10:19 PM #

    I attend the NCSU scrimmage Thursday and 3hr practice on Saturday last week.
    All I can say is I was surprised by the defense-its personnal and speed.
    The offense was more polished in practice than I thought it would be.
    Players-offense #9 Barnes(Damn!!!what talent!)#22Baker(starting to look like the old #22)#84(caught alot of passes-damn big kid)#13Owen- looks faster than last year-caught some nice pass in practice.The O-line working their asses off- is going to be a beast,#8 Gennon(Has all the throws-also a alot quicker than I imagine-look very good)
    #16(thursday only)knee not bothering him-1st play form srimmage completed about a 35yd pass to Spencer-Raining -offense looked a little rusty(or defense looked that good?).
    Defense-#56LB Nate(Damn!JUST DAMN!What a good player!)#7LB Sterling(looked very good-big kid)#35Manning(Had some problems covering-maybe knee related-got fustrated few times-but working hard)D-Line Big and quick- very impressed #90Mageo#11Augustin#49Cash#91Kuhn#98Mckeen.Secondary-really good players-#28 Byers#20 Ellis#21Morgan#4Walker#32Simmoms-Coach Reed working their ass hard.
    Overall was impressed with this team in spring practice-THINGS LOOKING GOOD BOYS-READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL!

  2. Astral Rain 04/13/2009 at 10:50 PM #

    8-4 would be a season to be real happy about. 7 wins to me is acceptable. I’d love to see something more magical. I don’t think this is going to be 2003 though.

    As for those rankings, I think TOB at #3 is about right, given who #1 and #2 are.

  3. wolfpackdawg 04/14/2009 at 7:23 AM #

    Let me please add that I don’t give a Huckleberry Hound’s ass what Sylvia Hatchell thinks about our women’s basketball coaching search.

  4. Packman02 04/14/2009 at 8:08 AM #

    THREAD-JACK ALERT: (Sorry if this has already been posted)

    Not sure if anyone’s seen the updated UNC System Salary data, but the CLT Observer has it posted (I’d imagine the N&O does as well, but I, personally, never visit the site).

    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/data/story/94568.html

    One interesting little nugget from this data…

    Lee ‘I know contracts and basketball’ Fowler makes $280K per year…his counterpart, Baddour, at Chapel Hill (where they actually win) makes $295K per year…

    Who yeilds the greater ROI? I’ll give you a few minutes to think that one over…

  5. Alpha Wolf 04/14/2009 at 8:52 AM #

    wolfpackdawg — please send me a new keyboard. My old one shorted out when I spit coffee in it.

  6. Noah 04/14/2009 at 9:21 AM #

    I’d laugh my ass off if Obie grew a set of cahones and told the BOT, “I’m not firing him, go ahead and do it yourself.” I just don’t see that bunch of wusses doing it. If they do, wouldn’t it be a hoot for the BOG to intercede and say, “Hold on there boys, you may have overstepped your boundaries. WE like LF being the AD in Raleigh. Heh, heh, heh.”

    Yeah. That would be…hilarious. That would almost be as funny as watching puppies and kittens get thrown into a bonfire.

  7. Noah 04/14/2009 at 9:24 AM #

    Regarding Terrell Manning, his problem is a lack of experience. He missed the last part of his senior year and all of last year rehabbing his knee. He needs reps. Lots and lots of reps.

  8. Noah 04/14/2009 at 9:25 AM #

    turfpack – Did Baker have any sort of lateral quickness that you could see? He’s got his strength back and his straight-ahead speed…but I’m wondering if he stop and start and move from side-to-side as well.

  9. packalum44 04/14/2009 at 10:09 AM #

    For those of you who label Chancellor O as a pussy…have you actually met the guy? He’s not as big a puss as made out to be. His leadership style wouldn’t be suited to the corporate world. But he’s just a byproduct of being employed in academia for his entire career. Maybe more schools need to go after Chancellor’s from outside academia if they want to shake things up.

  10. Greywolf 04/14/2009 at 10:19 AM #

    LF may be incompetent in many ways but he is also a SCAPEGOAT. UNX coaches are paid about 25% higher on an average than NCSU coaches.
    `
    It’s likely the other “second tier” schools, Clempson, VPI and FSU, salaries are 25% less than the Cocks, the Hoos, and the Gators. Although the Gators aren’t in the ACC, FSU’s situation is likely as bad. Oh, we “second tier” schools are doing OK and sometimes are really successful as we were in ’73 & ’74. (’83 if you like to think the team with the second worst record in NCAA history to win an NC in basketball is in the category of UNX or Duke) And FSU has had considerable success in football. Clempson is right along with NCSU in their fb successes.
    `
    All our glorious “expectations” for our athletic teams overlook the tremendous disadvantage at which the 2nd tier operates. Do we make a stink about it? No, we’d rather point out that our AD makes almost as much as UNX’s AD and smirk because he isn’t as successful. Sometimes we are as dishonest in our thinking and words as the Banks we like to criticize.
    `
    How would you like to seek a comparably skilled manager for your company for 25% less salary than your competition?
    `
    I am as concerned about our AD having “foot-in-mouth” problems as the next person, but for the life of me, I can’t honestly berate him because our win-loss records are below schools able to attract coaches by paying 25% more in salary. Set standards for our coaches? That haughty shit sounds good in blogs like SFN. Fire them for not finishing in the top 25% of the ACC? Fire the AD because he doesn’t clean house and replace them with whom? Coaches willing to take 25% below the going rate of other comparable coaches?
    `
    Yeah!! Tell Obie if he doesn’t fire Fowler they will. Bullshit. Tell the effing Board of Governors to authorize paying our coaches what the “flagship” pays. THAT would be something worthy of note, not firing a scapegoat.

  11. statered 04/14/2009 at 10:26 AM #

    I would be all for paying our coaches more if I thought they were worth the money. Based on our records with few exceptions I don’t think they are.

  12. Greywolf 04/14/2009 at 10:27 AM #

    “Yeah. That would be…hilarious. That would almost be as funny as watching puppies and kittens get thrown into a bonfire.”
    Noah, you may have missed the sarcasm in my post. Maybe not. But Obie standing up to the BOT or our BOT standing up to the BOG or perhaps our AD standing up to Obie would not be a fun thing to watch. puppies and kittens? Ouch.

  13. Girlfriend in a Coma 04/14/2009 at 10:34 AM #

    But LF doesn’t even have us competetive with the second tier. How do you explain that?

  14. bradleyb123 04/14/2009 at 10:42 AM #

    (’83 if you like to think the team with the second worst record in NCAA history to win an NC in basketball is in the category of UNX or Duke)

    I’ve believed all along that the ’83 team was not the Cinderella everyone thought we were. We were a great team before Whit broke his foot. His absence changed everything on that team (think one player can’t make such a big difference? Imagine this year’s Carolina team without Lawson… they couldn’t even win the ACC tournament without him…) When he came back, State had a great team again, but they had the advantage of flying “below the radar”. No one knew how good we were. Did we have some luck? Sure we did. Most teams that win the national championship have their lucky moments. But we were good, too. I’m not saying we were great like Duke from the early 90’s, or the 2009 Tar Heels. But we were better than most people realize.

    I would be all for paying our coaches more if I thought they were worth the money. Based on our records with few exceptions I don’t think they are.

    Yes, but our coaching searches could be more wide open if we had the option of paying more money. We went cheap because we had to go cheap.

  15. Greywolf 04/14/2009 at 11:43 AM #

    bradleyb123
    I think we’ve been down this road before. Of course the ’83 team was a good team. But comparing Whitt, a shooting guard, with Lawson doesn’t fly. Take anyone of UNX’s other players out and sub in another McD All Am and you still have a great team. We take Whitt out and bam, there goes the team. I think the ’83 run to the NC is one of the greatest coaching jobs of all time. Great team? I don’t think so for the very argument you present.

  16. Alpha Wolf 04/14/2009 at 12:02 PM #

    How would you like to seek a comparably skilled manager for your company for 25% less salary than your competition?

    You’ll either swing and miss or you will not keep him long.

    ‘Course, you know that, Grey.

  17. bradleyb123 04/14/2009 at 12:11 PM #

    Greywolf, I guess we could look at State’s record when Whit was playing, and compare it to games where he did not play. Whit’s absence changed the chemistry of the team. Maybe they lacked depth, kinda like our football team last year. When guys were healthy, we were very good. We just didn’t get to see a mostly healthy team until the last four games of the season. Before that, key players were absent from either the offense or the defense (or both). We had no depth, so when guys were hurt, we had a bad team. I think that was true for the ’83 Wolfpack team. We just didn’t have a guy to offset Whittenburg’s injury.

    This is just my opinion, but maybe the records support me on this?

  18. Greywolf 04/14/2009 at 12:23 PM #

    Girlfriend in a Coma
    April 14th, 2009 at 10:34 am
    “But LF doesn’t even have us competetive with the second tier. How do you explain that?”
    `
    “2nd tier” refers to their relationship to other schools in their university system — UNC/NCSU, UVA/VPI, USC/CU. Your statement indicates that you think I was referring to the bottom half of the ACC. (I thought that was clear in my writing.)
    `
    Clempson and VPI are very comparable to NCSU. VPI has the benefit of having Frank Beamer coaching football for a long time. Clempson is, as someone said, going to need an archeologist to find their glory days soon. FSU is somewhat different because of they used athletics to get on the map whereas we, Clempson and VPI have been traditionally science/engineering schools with great academics.
    `
    Sometimes I wonder if this is an NCSU athletics site or an “LF sucks” site. If it’s the latter — and that’s OK — I’ll not try to have a realistic conversation concerning our severe disadvantage having to offer bottom feeder salaries and the problem we are going to have trying attract a top-of-the-line AD to replace LF.

  19. bradleyb123 04/14/2009 at 12:38 PM #

    Greywolf, I agree with you about the salary thing. But I also think LF is a bonehead and needs to be replaced asap. I do give him credit for building up our fuh-cilities, though. But that’s about all, and there’s more to his job than that.

  20. Greywolf 04/14/2009 at 12:39 PM #

    Alpha Wolf
    April 14th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
    How would you like to seek a comparably skilled manager for your company for 25% less salary than your competition?

    You’ll either swing and miss or you will not keep him long.

    ‘Course, you know that, Grey.
    `
    Alpha, I’ve got a nasty habit of only asking questions I know the answer to. 😉 It’s very difficult because of LF’s trouble with his mouth, to argue the reality of our athletic disadvantages with regard to hiring coaches. It seems that we are thinking that gouging out a shanker (LF) is solving the problem (w/l) in the long term. NCSU has been disadvantaged in this area for a very long time. Nobody talks about it (they would be fired if they did) An interesting quote from Richard Sykes in an article about Nora Lynn Finch, says that he was always “treated fairly” but until NLF became an Associate AD, the golf team road all night in vans while UNC and Duke flew over them on the way to tournaments. Recruit against that. “Come to UNX and fly or go to NCSU and drive all night. And when you get there, stay in 3rd rate motels.”
    `
    Honestly Alpha, until I started reading this site, I had no idea it was as bad as it was. UNC assistant coaches make more base salary than TOB. Across the board we lag behind “the flagship campus” by about 25%. It’s starting to really piss me off. I feel inclined to hand out a flyer at the Spring Game

  21. Girlfriend in a Coma 04/14/2009 at 12:57 PM #

    I’m not trying to be obtuse. We are dead last in the ACC in the Sears Cup or whatever they call it, and damn near dead last among BCS-conference schools nationwide. What am I missing? Schools with similar means and disadvantages outperform us consistently.

    Fowler really has put his stamp on the program. Boy Howdy!

  22. Rick 04/14/2009 at 1:50 PM #

    “LF may be incompetent in many ways but he is also a SCAPEGOAT. UNX coaches are paid about 25% higher on an average than NCSU coaches.”

    You have made every excuse in the book for Fowler and none of them ring true.

    He has “led” this program to the very pits of the athletic world. We are the worst. The bottom dwellers.
    And yet you continue to make excuses for that half wit, who gets in front of every mic within 20 miles and utters some of the most embarrassing crap ever said over the air.

    Our athletic department is a joke and even if LF is not to blame, he is the leader and the leader has to take ownership for the suckage that has become NCSU athletics.

    NO EXCUSES

  23. bradleyb123 04/14/2009 at 2:05 PM #

    Honestly Alpha, until I started reading this site, I had no idea it was as bad as it was. UNC assistant coaches make more base salary than TOB. Across the board we lag behind “the flagship campus” by about 25%. It’s starting to really piss me off. I feel inclined to hand out a flyer at the Spring Game

    You’re right, and I never thought about this much until now. I didn’t realize we were so hamstrung by the BOG regarding salaries.

    UNC assistant coaches make more base salary than TOB? Really?

    People can complain about us not competing, but how are we supposed to compete on such an unlevel playing field? That salary inequality virtually guarantees better coaches at UNX across the board.

    I say start with unloading Fowler. But then what can we do about the other part?

  24. Classof89 04/14/2009 at 2:06 PM #

    Greywolf: I don’t know what universe you’re living in, but I certainly don’t consider NC State a “second tier” institution below UNC-Chapel Hill. I can tell you that over at the General Assembly, they are both considered the flagship institutions, and whatever one gets, special pains are taken to make sure the other gets something comparable.

  25. waxhaw 04/14/2009 at 2:08 PM #

    Let’s assume for arguments sake that our current athletic performance in terms of wins is a function of the low AD salary and low coaches salary.

    That still doesn’t change the way Fowler has handled public parts of his job.

    1) Calling a large and vocal portion of the fanbase the lunatic fringe.
    2) Putting foot in mouth with the unequivocable way he stated Amato’s job was safe.
    3) Being naive enough to think he could privately handle our basketball search without leaks.
    4) Telling crass jokes on the golf course with boosters.
    5) Comments about lack of winning being related to poor facilities.

    He may not be a boob but he sure comes across as one with some of his comments. I’m happy with football and unsure on basketball but I am pissed about the way our university handles PR.

    We send out ticket order forms with instructions on how to order tickets and the friggin link to the website is impossible to find.

    We have 15 differnet logos and they change every few years.

    We NEVER spin our news. We are constantly in reactive mode and catering to the whims of dumb ass daisy picking UNC-CH journalists who wouldn’t know a football if it was crammed up their ass.

    If wins aren’t the AD’s responsibility, then what about communicating with the public? Whose job is that?

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