Updated “State of the Program” Thoughts

wilee

OK, dark side – you win. Last night’s disastrous effort pushed me over the edge. Taking a cue from Sidney Lowe’s motivational techniques and substitution patterns, I will not order my thoughts logically and just throw crap against the wall to see what sticks:

– Sidney Lowe has clearly lost this team, for the second year in a row. That’s completely unacceptable, and could be a program destroyer.

– Sidney Lowe not only put a shell-shocked Javi Gonzalez into a tie game cold midway through the second half, but also did so without a secondary ballhandler on the court with him. Gee, who could have predicted three straight turnovers (though somehow the boxscore only lists two) in that situation? I was mildly surprised that no crazed fans charged the court to set themselves on fire in protest.

– Julius Mays kept State in the game during the second half, but don’t read too much into it. Against a more disciplined opponent, he won’t be able to run around for 30 seconds, then get an open lane or pull-up jumper. And he still finished the game with no assists.

– The “effort” lineup that worked against FSU for about 10 minutes in the second half will not be able to stand against better competition. Even against the Noles, it was weak defensively and on the glass.

– By the “consecutive ACC losses” measure, Sidney Lowe is now the losingest coach in NC State history (hat tip, SFN commenters)! That’s saying alot from an institution that once employed Les Robinson for six long years. Congratulations, Coach!

– I’ve said this many times privately, and nobody has ever contradicted it – the only staff member that seems to have any clue about “nuts and bolts” college coaching is #3 assistant Pete Strickland. That’s just pathetic.

– When Lowe was hired, I told numerous friends that the great thing was that “limbo hell” was over – Sid would likely be a smashing success, or an abject failure. Looks like I was right.

– Fellow Hindenburg program Georgia Tech comes to town on Saturday. One team has to win, the other starts worrying about a Bob Wade-like season. State would actually be lucky if the crowd is small – otherwise, the ESA will be full of very angry people.

– I watched last night’s game late on DVR (my wife and kids claimed the HDTV that was recording the game for that awful American Idol show). I sent an e-mail to fellow SFN bloggers with about 9:30 to go and State down 1, saying that even if State comes back to win, this was one of the most poorly coached games I had ever seen. I apologize for not being there live with you on the blog – misery loves company.

– Want to feel even worse? In bad economic times, I think it’s fair to assume that the purse strings of the big money donors are much tighter. I’m not sure the money is there to chase off Fowler and Lowe, much less to throw money at a decent coach for what looks like a very major rebuilding job. Thus, I don’t see any rational reason to have so much as a scintilla of hope.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

08-09 Basketball General NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe

162 Responses to Updated “State of the Program” Thoughts

  1. VaWolf82 01/14/2009 at 2:26 PM #

    What you’re referring to is someone with blind faith who expects a new season and new players to magically fix everything. If you think I’m that dumb, then …

    I’m sorry that I mistakenly put you into that category; but there are plenty of people that still live there. What’s even worse than putting blind faith in new players is putting blind faith in players that we’ve already seen…and there’s plenty of that going around as well.

  2. Wulfpack 01/14/2009 at 2:29 PM #

    “within his system”

    What “system” do you speak of? I see no semblance of anything remotely associated with a system. We

  3. rswilli2 01/14/2009 at 2:35 PM #

    Is Fowler the one evaluating the coaches after the season? I would assume so, since he is the AD. What is it he’s not seeing? If Coach Lowe is deficient in personnel management, the daily activities involved in running a college program, whatever, shouldn’t Fowler have given him whatever he needs to get up to speed? After all, Fowler knew damn well that Lowe had no experience whatsoever in running a college program.

  4. wufpup76 01/14/2009 at 2:36 PM #

    No worries, Va –

    I understood the point you were trying to convey … I should have expounded upon my point a little further in that one post … ^^^Way up there 🙂

  5. beer03 01/14/2009 at 2:39 PM #

    Who knows what the hell is going on? – too many variables 1. Old, bad players. 2. New bad players. 3. New mediocre players with no experience at this level. 4. A coach who doesnt inspire, has personality clashes with players, and substitutes using a random number generator. Can this work out? WTF knows? My guess is not any time soon – approximately equals no, due to the average frustration level of the fan base.

    Lets just hope the next search is done properly = the real search starts a month before the public one and real candidates are isolated out of the public eye = Fowler can’t be the AD.

    I give up, just pass the booze and the gun and lets play Russian Roulette.

  6. JeremyH 01/14/2009 at 2:42 PM #

    let the blame game begin…

  7. Gene 01/14/2009 at 2:45 PM #

    “Comparisons to Duke Football? Saying they don’t deserve to put on the jersey? Serious ideas of boycotting a program to make a point?”

    Comparisons to Duke football are highly appropriate. It’s been 12 years, since I moved to the northeast and only hardcore fans of college basketball know we exist thanks to the five years Sendek took us to the NCAA’s.

    Otherwise no one takes our belief we “deserve” to be a premier program seriously. We’re an after thought in basketball discussions. If you say you went to college in North Carolina and love college basketball you either went to Duke or UNC; we do not exist.

    We’re just a few more last place finishes from being Duke football, which showed some signs of life, but by and large has been irrelevant over the past 40 years.

    In terms of our irrelevance, we’ve crossed year 20 and are showing no signs of it changing.

    Duke fans have realligned their expectations with the existing reality: as long as the football team can win some games and not be a total embarrassment, they’re doing good.

    It’s only a matter of time before we come around to that way of thinking, because I wasn’t born in April of 1974 and was 8 years old in April of 1983 and wasn’t following college basketball at at that age.

    All I know is varying degrees of disappointment. Soon all anyone will know is varying degrees of disappointment in our basketball program, unless something changes soon.

    I believe Sid really wants to win, but I don’t think we’ll get enough players in here fast enough to turn things around before he wears out his welcome.

    ********

    Regarding boycotting, I think something has to be done because our the performance of our team sports – revenue and non-revenue – is very underwhelming and has been for a long time.

    It’s just not basketball we need to deal with, but to demand excellence across the board.

    As things stand, those in charge just don’t seem to get it. Shaking up the status quo with regards to contributions may be our only way to send a message as fans.

  8. buttPACKer 01/14/2009 at 2:56 PM #

    chiefjojo,

    re: “TOB’s free pass for two mediocre seasons” to paraphrase; TOB has shown real, tangible improvement is almost every area, whereas Sid has actually begun go backwards.

    also, Sid’s coaching is questionable at best, but ridiculous most often. The decisions he makes court-side during crucial moments have proven–beyond doubt–that he is in over his head, and the general malaise that surrounds this program is evidence of problems from bottom to top.

  9. Old School Wolf 01/14/2009 at 2:56 PM #

    ” nothing sharpens the senses like one’s impending demise.” Can’t remember where this thought comes from but do think we need our creative constructive criticism to continue generating ideas for Sid (and the media writers) that he should consider before we have another completely lost season.. As I posted last night, I haven’t given up on this year’s team and will not until the seniors or the team quits. We’re going to find our Saturday if either has happened. My advice/constructive criticism for Sid ( gleaned from ideas here and other boards) is as follows. We ( going to say we instead of you since we are all in this together) lost the team last year. We got them back over the summer. This year we seem to be overcompensating by trying to keep everyone happy with playing time in most every game. Many of us in the stands think we are playing too many people in the still critical parts of the game. Having so many options doesn’t mean you should use them. Pick the 7-8 best players we have. Explain the rotation to everyone. We’ll keep the team together by winning some games, rather than by trying to keep the team together by letting everyone play in most games.

  10. rswilli2 01/14/2009 at 3:04 PM #

    Old School, I agree with you. I think Coach Lowe is trying so hard to avoid a mess like last year that he’s gone way overboard in giving minutes to every warm body on the bench. Sorry, but some of these guys just have no business on the floor, and that’s just the breaks.

  11. Justin Gainey 01/14/2009 at 3:08 PM #

    ^ OLD School Wolf
    I agree. This isn’t church league basketball. You don’t have to play everybody. Who cares if someone sits the entire game and doesn’t play, if we win, and that’s what it takes, so be it. Quit trying to be friends with the players and start being their coach!

  12. mwcric 01/14/2009 at 3:17 PM #

    I wanted to real all of the passionate, intelligent posts here from the real Wolpfack fans, as this blog always brings them out. But there’s just too many – and I can’t decide if that’s good or bad, given the subject matter. My point – sorry if this has already been said.

    What is making this year extra-bitter, IMO, is the rest of the Big 4 all camping out in the top 10 since the start of the year, as well as State’s official relegation to the “who cares?” pile of college teams, demonstrated by the fact the Pack, when they do manage to play on national TV, get stuck on ESPNU. Here in Richmond, VA I’ve had exactly one opportunity to see State play this year – the Florida game on CBS.

    Those two factors alone have churned up a feeling in me that I have NEVER felt in 37 years on this Earth regarding NC State athletics – apathy. Complete, utter apathy.

    I don’t care what happens to Lee Fowler. I don’t care what Sidney Lowe does. I haven’t the slightest bit of curiosity about Derrick Favors’ presser tonight or where John Wall will go.

    A couple of years ago Wake was muddling though a funk. Then the team experienced a terrible tragedy when their coach died…and responded by getting better and in two years becoming a top 5 team.

    It was only a few years ago that UNC’s ship finally ran aground after decades of smooth sailing and they endured a five-year stint of wandering the desert of first or second-round NCAA exits, NIT bids or losing seasons. Within a couple years’ of hiring Roy Williams they won a national title and have been living back the rarified air to which they’re accustomed.

    Meanwhile, the Wolfpack program remains mired in the post-Valvano era, having made next to no progress in returning to any form of relevancy, on a state or national level.

    This was the flagship program of the ACC. This was the program that put the conference on the map, that literally grew basketball in the Southern United States. This is the program that was clearly number two in conference royalty 20 years ago.

    When the previous regime closed up shop and moved west, I ridiculed all of the asinine columnists who inevitably would trudge out the tired cliches about unrealistic expectations, inferiority complexes and living in the past. While I tended to throw some support to Herb a little more than others here, I felt like he was never going to break through to that next level, or even felt the compulsion to try. I thought the next coach would finally be the one to complete the next journey home.

    Now, though, I think maybe the sportswriters are right. To a logical, thinking, reasoning, rationalizing human being, NC State’s two-decade funk is an utter enigma. Maryland was belly-up about the same time, and went on to a national title. Georgia Tech has played for a title. Duke and North Carolina have won multiple titles.

    State? State is still getting sympathetic words from the color commentators about how they’re just a “player or two” away from greatness or how their coach “needs a little more time.”

    Ladies and Gentlemen, it’s time to acknowledge: NC State is the new Clemson of ACC basketball, and it’s not going to change any time soon, if ever. Clemson is replacing who we used to be, and when and if they beat UNC at home and win an ACC tourney, the transition will be complete.

    You need help building a program these days from ESPN. Simple as that – just ask Duke. You need a media presence, and that means at least losing in an entertaining fashion, which we don’t. We do not play an appealing brand of basketball. We do not have colorful or exciting players. We used to be a commodity because we at least had atmosphere in Reynolds, and now that is gone too.

    This program has nothing worth watching unless you’re a diehard fan – and there are less of these cultivated every year thanks to the 20-year blues. And even then we watch(ed) almost out of a sense of duty.

    No matter how bad this season gets, Lowe will not be fired. Understand that. It’s bad decorum and public relations first of all, and even after that there’s Fowler, whose foibles have been microprocessed here. If the year completely careens out of control (last night is not a good indicator), he may have the courage and character to step down on his own, but I doubt it. He’ll probably be allowed at least five years, and it’s tough to argue against that; he’s an alum, a former hero, and again, barring anything illegal or unethical happening, it’s just the right thing to do.

    He’ll soldier on until the inevitable happens, and the cycle of inpeptitude and frustration will continue.

    Maybe the light will suddenly come on and Lowe and his players will get it, but I just can’t care anymore. I can’t. I had a glimmer of hope when State was at least in the losses at the end, but now we’re back to the double-digit implosions. It’s been too long, and there’s been too much false promise. Trust has been broken and I’m too weary to give a damn anymore.

  13. daughtry 01/14/2009 at 3:21 PM #

    Retracted my post. I am going to stay optimistic. If I can sit through Les having to finish a game with 4 players on the court, then I can deal with this.

  14. Astral Rain 01/14/2009 at 3:40 PM #

    As to the post regarding competitive fire and not wanting to go out a loser- I’m sure Chuck Amato had the same fire Sid did. He needed to be fired.

    That said, I have respect and appreciation for Chuck, a lot more then I do Herbie, I’d boo Sendek but I’d cheer Chuck.

    This year no matter what, Sid gets his last free pass.

    One name I’d be curious, if he’s not too old: Nolan Richardson? I think he’d be dying to get back into basketball, and he was a good coach.

  15. Thompson44 01/14/2009 at 4:01 PM #

    Are you the same bunch of people that were calling for Herb’s head as well? I love the Wolfpack and always will but Sid is learning, he has no PG and his upper classman suck. I think last night showed him to play his younger guys and with the addition of next years class I have no worries.
    Tough road ahead but that is what seperates Wolfpack fans from everyone else we stick with our team, so get off Sid’s case it has only been 3 years and he is playing with Herbs guys. Let him get his people in and see what happens and in the meantime have a beer and stop all the B******g.

  16. wufpup76 01/14/2009 at 4:11 PM #

    I don’t know Astral, I think Richardson’s best years may have passed him by … but he is (or was) coaching the Mexican National Team

    Just in general, I’d be interested in seeing a low or mid major program take him on and seeing what happens

    Mike Anderson was an understudy of Richardson’s and had good success at UAB before taking the head job at Missouri – where he’s had mixed results … just an fyi as to his coaching style and how it may would play out in the ACC

  17. Wulfpack 01/14/2009 at 4:13 PM #

    Jeff Capel – Oklahoma
    Anthony Grant – VCU
    Sean Miller – Xavier

  18. Ismael 01/14/2009 at 4:19 PM #

    what i don’t understand is how people can say “these are just 18-20 yr old kids, coach has to take some responsibility…yada yada yada.”

    This is the ACC. You look down the list of rosters in the ACC and show me another starting PG worse than our best PG AND over the last 3 years. I love Atsur (no homo) but he was hardly a topnotch PG in the ACC. But he was smart as hell and never got in a hurry AND he could shoot. Alot of the teams we play have BurgerBoys and their backups are burgerboys.

    During the first year everyone and I mean everyone except for the self-annointed clairvoyants, were praising Lowe’s “in game coaching decisions”. Go back and read the posts. He didn’t forget how to do that. So what do you want him to do after every game: “Well folks, i suck, it was my fault, i don’t know how to practice the kids, we just sit around and tell jokes at practice. But we’ll go back to the drawing board and get better….” At some point you want the coach to get publically pissed about the lack of effort, the daydream style that some of these guys get in.

    Someone said it: the starters went out, the reserves came in and kicked ass, got the lead, and like EVERY OTHER COACH in the country, you put back in your starters to seal the deal. If i didn’t know any better, i’d swear there might even be some sabotage going on. Are Costner and McCauley just not happy unless they get 38 min a game. We already know that Lowe left McCauley’s ass in Raleigh for the Toronto trip.

    I am not drinking the koolaid, i’ve sortof given up a while ago, but i find it simply emotionalism to think that we’ve actually seen what Sidney Lowe can do with ACC level talent; we’ve all admitted he doesn’t have ACC level talent at his disposal.

  19. buttPACKer 01/14/2009 at 4:29 PM #

    “so get off Sid’s case it has only been 3 years and he is playing with Herbs guys”

    but there has been NO perceptible improvement, AT ALL!–in nearly 3 years–
    THAT is the problem. . .

  20. Gene 01/14/2009 at 4:34 PM #

    ” can’t even remember the last time we out-rebounded a decent team.”

    Clemson, last weekend.

    Wulpack, the Jeff Capel’s the only one we need to persue on your list. Anthony took over what Capel built at VCU and beat Duke with Capel’s players. Miller is keeping a successful Xavier program in line with where they were for the past several years.

    “Alot of the teams we play have BurgerBoys and their backups are burgerboys.”

    Only two teams in D-1 basketball do that: Duke and UNC-Ch.

    Part of me wants to get really excited about the talented kids we have coming in, but both Fells and Costner (a McDonald’s high all-American) were very highly regarded coming out of high school and haven’t developed to their potential. Scooter Sherrill (another Mckie D’s all-American) was supposed to be the offensive weapon to solve our scoring funks.

    Other than Hodge, I can’t think of a top recruit who lived up to billing.

    I just want to hope every new kid who comes in here will be the best ever, but so far things haven’t turned out that way.

  21. Alpha Wolf 01/14/2009 at 4:39 PM #

    ^ Could the fanbase live with a former Duke player running the show here?

    And I honestly believe that Sherrill would have done well with Lowe.

  22. Gene 01/14/2009 at 4:49 PM #

    I would be A.O.K.A.Y with that former Dukie running the show here. The rest of K’s kids aren’t doing so hot in the coaching ranks.

    My biggest regret is Herb resigning a month after the season ended that guys like Capel were already hired by other programs.

  23. mwcric 01/14/2009 at 4:51 PM #

    To me, the jury is still out on Capel. Here in Richmond he was getting diminishing returns – still decent seasons for VCU, but slipping just a bit each season – and the consensus with those in the know up here was that he left while the getting was good, lest he have what happened to his dad happen to him. For those of you who may not remember, his dad had some really great years at ODU, including an upset of I think G’town in the NCAAs, was wooed by bigger programs – NC State included – stayed home and eventually lost the goodwill as ODU’s arc descended. I’ll be interested in seeing what Jeff does at OU once Blake Griffin moves on.

  24. Noah 01/14/2009 at 4:55 PM #

    Didn’t Sendek resign on April Fools Day?

  25. Gene 01/14/2009 at 5:02 PM #

    I think he did resign on April 1

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