Moving Forward in 2008 Hoops

Ever since I decided to write off the 2007-08 season as a learning experience for Sid and staff, things have continued in their perilous course. Clemson and UNC each went on huge scoring runs to finish off the Pack at home, leaving us at 4-8 and on the outside of the NIT bubble. I don’t feel any worse about the status of the program because it’s exactly what I expected – otherwise, I never would have published the “writing off” post.

So, where do we go from here? It’s certainly possible that NC State loses out and ends its season on ACCT Thursday (with a losing record overall). It’s probably equally likely that the Pack ekes out 2 more wins, and maybe gets to ACCT Friday, setting up a certain NIT invite. Although the former sounds awful (and the thought of enduring such a stretch makes me cringe), there could be a silver lining.

A “disaster season” would make certain that no staff member or player takes any shred of validation or ego into the offseason. It will be absolutely clear that their attitude, offseason conditioning, and overall approach need a serious overhaul. No consecutive post-season bids to hang one’s hat on. No sliver of respectability. No hiding from the cold, hard truth. No delusions about being “that close” or “we were just unlucky.”

One needs only to look back to the disaster that was his 5th season. Although most of us hated the Princeton system, at least it was unavoidable that something major had to change – and it did. NOTE: This is not free license to turn this into a Sendek thread – just illustrating how disaster can be the impetus for change.

We have to accept that this team is not going to come together. 2 more weeks of practice won’t help much. The awful chemistry apparent through the entire season won’t be fixed at this late date. Players won’t magically get into shape, either physically or mentally. Yes, I’d like to watch another NIT run – I’m a junkie, and I want to see more (and better) Pack hoops. But I don’t think it would do anything positive for the program.

Please don’t create strawman arguments – this is a way to find a silver lining only. I don’t want NC State to lose out. I certainly hate the thought of Gavin Grant’s season ending like that. I will watch every game, and I will cheer for unexpected victories. if we get an NIT bid, we certainly should accept it.

Just some food for thought as the week comes to a close.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball General NCS Basketball Sidney Lowe

89 Responses to Moving Forward in 2008 Hoops

  1. RAWFS 02/23/2008 at 12:11 PM #

    Let me add this tale to illustrate what I said above. When I was a young buck many years ago, I was a starter on state champion baseball team in Georgia. We weren’t that much more talented than the other top teams in the state but we were a lot tougher when push came to shove. We never, ever gave in, and the second we started to even think about it, our coach, a grizzled old-time bastard we hated at the time made it an impossible choice.

    That all started in the fall for those of us who didn’t play football or basketball. Across the street from the high school was a huge hill that had a church cemetery at the top of the ridge — so it was known as Cemetery Hill. It had a a dirt road with a 300-400 foot altitude change as it completed the loop. This was in the Ga. foothills, so it was pretty steep up and down with a flat part in the middle. A tough ass run, let me tell you. Anyway, we were expected to run it before school and after. If you didn’t you might not make the team, no matter who you were, no matter how good you played. On top of that, we had all sign up for Weightlifting class and follow the regimen laid forth. Again, failure meant you might not be on the team. And we were indeed being watched to make sure we did what we were told to do. That went on for a few months before we ever picked up a baseball.

    When preseason started, more running — suicides and gassers. Puking was allowed. We all did. We all hated it. And then we ran some more. It started getting easier and easier because we were all used to it.

    By the time the season came, even if we trailed, we knew we would manufacture a win late because the other teams would wear out before we did. We KNEW that. We made it happen. Our pitchers lasted longer, our outfielders were just as crisp in the 7th as the 1st and we made a lot less mistakes than the other guys. Part of it was physical, most of it was mental.

    And one other benefit of going through that hellish regimen: we all united in hating “the old man.” It was us vs him and then during games it was us and him versus the world. We policed ourselves because we were terrified that if we didn’t, he would do it for us. That was not a good option.

    We finished out the year with the trophy and the accolades. At our banquet the Old Man teared up in front of us, our dates and parents and families and told us he’d never been prouder in his life because whatever he gave us, we did what we were told to do. And more. It was one of the most gratifying moments in my life.

    Ten years later was one of the saddest moments in my life when the boys all got back together to bury that mean old bastard that we loved like a Daddy. He was tough, but he taught us how to be tough. He taught us how to be organized, to stay sharp and most of all, to believe in each other against a common foe. That was exactly what we needed to get through a baseball season with a great record. And it sure helped in life too.

    Bottom line, the Old Man was a better friend than any so-called “player’s coach” I have ever heard of. He was honest, not patronizing. If you messed up, he didn’t pat your butt and tell you it was ok. He blessed you out and made you never want to do that again.

    And that’s what Sidney Lowe needs to do — within reason. He should watch Tom O’Brien and the way he handles his kids closely and learn from a master. To hell with this “have fun” crap. You have fun after a win. You scratch and claw and gut it out before and during.

  2. wfpk99 02/23/2008 at 12:19 PM #

    This is certainly not the first disappointing NC State team that I’ve ever had the opportunity to pull for. However, I do not remember a team like this one who consistently gives up during games. Guys stand and let the opponent drive through a lane you could put a semi through for a slam and don’t even seem to care. There’s no one during time outs who yells at anyone. I know yelling doesn’t exactly equal constructive pumping up, but it’s certainly better than what we have currently. (Have you ever seen Drew Neitzel and Izzo in time outs? That’s working out pretty well.) The most shocking thing is that with several alums on our bench including our head coach that it seemingly is accepted. There are several times where Sidney should have gotten one of those strategic technicals (Greg Paulus’s kicked ball, anyone?) in order to make his team know that he cares intensely and they should, too.

    I have been a State fan my whole life. I had the privilege to get my education there and experience all that is State. Rushing the floor at Reynolds, seeing us beat FSU in football when that was still shocking, watching our women’s team qualify for the Final 4…but the biggest thing that defines State for me is that even when we haven’t had a ton of talent (and that is more often than not), we play hard and take pride in the name on the front of the jersey.

    I would rather you win, but even if you’re going to lose, DON’T YOU DARE QUIT ON MY TEAM!!!

  3. choppack1 02/23/2008 at 12:25 PM #

    RAWFS – YOu’re right about Coach K and Dean, but that was a different era. While Coach K struggled early, I think that even then, he was about hustle and toughness. I remember my next door neighbor was a big Duke fan, and he had a bumper sticker that said, “Kryzewski’s kids will never quit!” We laughed at the time because they were so awful.

    Coach K also was a head coach before and prepped under Bobby Knight. Sidney Lowe prepped in the NBA.

    We’ll see if Sidney can learn in 2-5 years what it takes most good coaches 10-15 years to learn.

    Regarding the length of time, can we really use that as an excuse. Thad Matta and Bruce Pearl have had pretty incredible results in a short amount of time.How long did it take Billy Donovan to get rolling at Florida? Roy turned things around pretty quickly at Kansas. Barnes turned things around quickly at Texas. More and more these days, if you can’t turn it around early, you probably can’t turn it around.

    This isn’t like the atmosphere that Dean and Coach K inherited where it took time to build a program. Nowadays, you’re lucky to have elite talent 2 or 3 years. As a result, you better be able to coach up your talent quickly or develop guys who are highly regarded or lightly regarded, but likely 4 year guys. The early returns don’t look good on either count.

  4. Fenrir 02/23/2008 at 12:36 PM #

    my opinion… i think that the football(the chest)program and basketball(current)programs both boil down to disipline. in football we almost always did somthing to brake our momentum an fire the other team up. don’t get me wrong chuck did what he was hired to do. go to carter finley look at the stadium and look at the murphy center. that will always be the house chuck built, to me anyways!current basketball same thing we as a team do stupid stupid stuff. where does the blame lay is the $64,000 dallor question. first and formost is coaching everything rises and falls on leadership. i’ve seen nothing change from game to game. silly rotations, starting player that have no desire to play and alot of whistling. and me standing in front of the tv screaming obscinities ranting like a lunatic. this team is not was not prepared to compete in the acc. jeez these guys show flashes of what they could be but never are. i have said befor there is something completly wrong with this team. if it is descention amongst the troops. i suspect jj won’t be back next year. he’ll grab a paycheck and move on. i like lowe. he is in his second year and we have all made coparison as to what k did his first years and this coach so on. i will give him time but if i see this next year it will be hard not to turn. chuck could motivate and make guys think they were bullet proof but only for big games. sid is still an unknown and i don’t know if he has the ability to be an acc coach. and that is the whole point to it all ACC coach. some caoches are not acc quality they maybe great or good pac 10 coach but will never be the upper echelon on tobacco road. this is the toughest place/league to play. the learning curve for acc is accelerated, you don’t learn here.

  5. Canis_Lupis 02/23/2008 at 3:13 PM #

    I believe the ACC and other leagues would be better off if they rotated referees between the conferences at years end. That way there would be no bias when a certain light blue team played other teams.

  6. wolfpackpassion 02/23/2008 at 7:21 PM #

    I do not want to see state tank it in but they just might!
    the stress of having to win out and hope for aonther in acct to get them to 20-12 would be extremely bubble. but that would mean this team being consistant.
    But the acc overall is very weks even though rated as the best.
    unc/duke are locks and clemson too but what has happened to maryland and no wake is fourth?
    v tech fifth?
    with clemson on down to virgina having 5-9 losses in acc play makes it hard to guage how good these teams are! Not very.
    but i hat the nit, it only leads to false hope and this team has alot of that.
    any word on how our 2008 2009 recruiting classes look like?

  7. Sweet jumper 02/23/2008 at 9:29 PM #

    I just watched David Thompson block Bill Walton’s shot in the 1974 NCAA Semifinal Game on YouTube. This short clip is a great example of team defense and our team and staff should watch it on a continuous loop until they understand it. Greg Lee drove by Morris Rivers, and Tommy Burleson left Walton to cut off Lee. Lee passed around Burleson to Walton. David Thompson left Keith Wilkes and came across the lane to pick up Walton and made an incredible block on Walton’s shot. Phil Spence rotated down and blocked Wilkes off the boards and was in position for a possible rebound. You cannot diagram team/help defense any better. Contrast that to the play last Wednesday when Travels beat his man and Costner did not move a muscle to help out as Travels scored.

  8. BJD95 02/23/2008 at 10:35 PM #

    I am despondently watching Memphis and Tennessee scrap for the #1 slot. In a beautiful alternate universe, Calipari kept his word and didn’t jerk us around. Or we were in the market a year earlier, and Bruce Pearl is stalking our sideline like the mad genius he is.

    Damn it all to hell.

  9. WolftownVA81 02/23/2008 at 11:03 PM #

    Don’t ask me why, but just purchased two tix to the BB game at UVA tomorow. I’ll try to take a few notes during the game to relate here later. If anyone else is interested, they still have them at the UVA atheletics page (unclaimed student tickets) and the market exchange (season ticket holder sales.) I’m not expecting much to change but hey, maybe I’ll be suprised. UVA is in as a bad a shape as we are. Not a bad team to face when you’re trying to breakout out of a slump

  10. BJD95 02/23/2008 at 11:12 PM #

    Bruce Pearl will take UT to #1 for the first time EVER. Did you know he’s a cousin of Norm Sloan? Just learned that today.

  11. wufpup76 02/23/2008 at 11:31 PM #

    ^i am a fan of pearl’s (a straight arrow w/ a lot of enthusiasm), though i’m happy we have sidney … had no idea pearl is a cousin of norm sloan – how ’bout that …

    no offense, bjd, but i am EXTREMELY HAPPY that slimy d’bag calipari is not the head coach at nc state … cheats at umass, goes to the nba, then all of a suddden a moribund memphis program is infused w/ all this talent when he gets there … not to mention two of his players have been arrested this season … no thanks … i HATE memphis, primarily b/c of calipari

    btw, did you see when fine, fine erin andrews was interviewing pearl at the half and pearl grabbed her? erin was a little taken aback … pretty funny 🙂

    so glad the vols won

    we didn’t get pearl or calipari … it all happens for a reason, hopefully a really good one 😉

    now hopefully state can get a win this wknd! … goooo pack!

  12. BJD95 02/23/2008 at 11:53 PM #

    Calipari is the kind of guy you hate, unless he’s on your side. I pulled for the Vols, too – but couldn’t help wishing we had a coach that everybody hated for being a highly successful slimeball.

    I’m just so sick of being average or worse for almost 2 full decades of basketball – with little hope on the horizon.

  13. haze 02/24/2008 at 9:28 AM #

    ^ Not desperate enough for Calipari just yet.

    Bruce Pearl would have been nice.

  14. redfred2 02/24/2008 at 3:42 PM #

    ^Sweet jumper,

    Strangely enough, I was thinking about that exact defensive stop, and help defense rotation while I was, err, well, let’s just say I was seated, and reading the sports page early this morning. Ain’t that some sh*t.

    I’ll have to look that clip up and I think that is where I see these players as lacking to the enth degree. They are too reactive and they don’t have any sense of flow, or any feel for where the ball is most likely to go on the defensive end. They’ve been over coached, or maybe it would be better to say, ‘over directed’ constantly, mainly right in the middle of game situations. They continue to be over directed and instructed in certain situations that should be second nature to a player who has reached this level. It seems to me that me rather than coaching and pounding them on the fundamentals which are sorely lacking, Coach Lowe has decided to instruct them from the coach’s box during a game, and by doing so, these kids have had the their basic BB instincts “instructed” right out of their gordes.

    He’s not the first though, ” ” had one, and a very scripted path that he did actually ‘coach’ to his players, and that method also took away some of those same very basic BB instincts that I’m speaking of. Right now, we have another coach who needs to learn that he can’t ‘direct’ something from the coach’s box that he should have been coaching in practice sessions way back before season started.

    In just his second year, Lowe should be looking back at his game films and realizing that right about now.

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