SFN’s Take: TOB > PJ

SFN has been hearing from a variety of sources that Boston College head man Tom O’Brien has emerged as a serious contender for the NC State job. As you may know, O’Brien has taken some heat from the Eagle faithful for not being able to get BC over the proverbial hump. While we agree that O’Brien may have maxed out what he is able to accomplish in Beantown, we do not believe that his ceiling would necessarily be limited at NC State.

O’Brien is supposedly willing to make a move because Boston is a pro sports town, almost exclusively. BC also has a small alumni base, which has led to good Eagle teams getting subpar bowl bids. The argument is that better bowls would lead to more recruiting momentum, as would a thriving, college-town environment – and ultimately, a chance at more success at NC State.

Of course, you might note that you could say the same thing about Paul Johnson. There is some truth to that. However, we believe that Tom O’Brien has some clear advantages over PJ – (i) BCS conference experience; (ii) has recruited at least some premium athletes; (iii) less potential to be negatively recruited against successfully; and (iv) a stronger staff (with pretty remarkable continuity).

O’Brien is no spring chicken, but young enough (58) to have a good ten year run at NC State. Plus, we already know his likely “floor” – 7-9 win seasons, which would at least get NC State into good bowl games periodically. We also think that it is reasonable to hope for greater success (contention for ACC titles) with a fresh start and a different environment to work in. Is it guaranteed? No. But nobody is going to be a sure thing here. SFN thinks that O’Brien would be a very good choice.

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General NCS Football Tom O'Brien

336 Responses to SFN’s Take: TOB > PJ

  1. jbpackfan 12/06/2006 at 1:10 PM #

    wolfpacker55 Says:

    December 6th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
    jbpackfan, what is your problem. If you are too ignorant to discuss anything but rumors then sit at home and be quiet. You have no facts to support your theory that jimbo is no longer a candidate. Shut up.

    Thanks. you seem like a real nice fellow. I’m not sure what I did to offend you, but I hope you have a Merry Christmas.

  2. Woof Wolf 12/06/2006 at 1:12 PM #

    My greatest fear at this point is that LF asked Oblinger to go Europe and hire one of their “Football” coaches. The guy at Manchester United has been getting some good press.

  3. partialqualifier 12/06/2006 at 1:15 PM #

    I am convinced that there are some people who would want Paul Johnson no matter who Plan B was. LOL! I honestly believe that if Pete Carrol, Bob Stoops, or Mack Brown started campaigning for the State job, some of you would start nit-picking the hell out of them just to have Johnson as your next coach.

  4. skywalkerdt 12/06/2006 at 1:15 PM #

    wolfpacker55’s source, dave glenn, has proven to be a very reliable source for the fan base so take him for his word that jimbo fisher as a candidate for this job is a memory. my hunch though is that the guy turns up big somewhere else and fowler screwed that one up by not at least interviewing the guy.

  5. highonlowe 12/06/2006 at 1:15 PM #

    Its not TOB’s personality I’m interested in. Its the reoccuring themes of ‘can’t win the big games’, ‘resistance to in-game adjustments’, ‘risk adverse’, ‘conservative approach’, etc.
    I think the man could do great things here and win consistently, but, I’d still rather have PJ.

  6. RickJ 12/06/2006 at 1:16 PM #

    Mike Leach on the Navy offense:

    “They run it all the time, and we throw it a lot, but in my mind that’s sort of where the differences end,” Texas Tech head coach Mike Leach said. “It’s about distribution of the ball. They make sure everybody touches the ball, and the quarterback makes good decisions about who gets the ball. Philosophically, I think we’re incredibly similar.”

  7. CaptainCraptacular 12/06/2006 at 1:17 PM #

    *O’Brien has managed to go mid level, so-so bowls. Winning a few, losing a few.*

    Didn’t do your research. BC has won 6 straight bowls and TOBs total bowl record at BC is 6-1. But your argument still works.

    Although I don’t understand how or why any State fan could be upset with TOBs record if it applied here. Our best season since Sheridan was 11-3, and we had a chance to win each of those 3 losses. Even with Sheridan, his best seasons at State had 3 losses (source: http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/coaching/alltime_coach_year_by_year.php?coachid=2131)

    There’s nothing wrong with wanting to dream higher than 9-3. But why is the detractors opinion so grounded in the perception that TOBs ceiling is going to automatically be 9-3 no matter what? TOB has BC on the verge of breaking that ceiling. The games they lose they haven’t lost by much, at least this year. Also, about losing to ranked teams, BC was 3-1 against ranked teams this year. They beat VT, Maryland, and Clemson when they were ranked and lost to Wake. I firmly believe that one year very soon TOB will have BC (if he stays there) in the BCS. I don’t buy the 9-3 ceiling at all, and even if 8-4 were his average record at State that would put him in Sheridan company.

    Personally, I would be very happy with either TOB or PJ. As for Fisher.. WHY WHY WHY in the world cancel the interview. If he’s not on the A list, so what? Don’t burn the bridge with him before knowing for sure you have an A-lister all wrapped up. What happens if the A-listers fall through? Then we are stuck without an option in Fisher because we burned the bridge. Amazing. Words fail me.

  8. skywalkerdt 12/06/2006 at 1:20 PM #

    i can answer your why did we burn that bridge in two words- lee fowler. he failed to learn from the basketball search. how confident was he that he had calipari signed sealed and delivered? until there is a name on the dotted line i say don’t trust that good feeling about someone else being good to go too much.

  9. partialqualifier 12/06/2006 at 1:21 PM #

    I find it interesting that while Paul Johnson is denying that he has spoken to NC State about the job you have these words from LSU OC Jimbo Fisher:

    “That’s a heck of a job, a very, very good job. I’d be interested. How could you not be interested in that situation?”

    Hmmmm. Who sounds like they want it more?

  10. Spin Wolf 12/06/2006 at 1:21 PM #

    I’ll be the first to admit that I’m no X’s and O’s guru, but I read a link on Pack Pride about Johnson’s flexbone (or whatever it’s called) offense and I don’t mind saying it got me excited.

    I think that when you’re not a “name” program, you have to use a certain amount of innovation and the flexbone certainly fits the bill. I believe that one of SFN’s concerns over PJ was that he has never recruited at this level.

    Neither had Dick Sheridan and State was his first “big” job. My point is this – if you can be near the top of the country in rushing stats each year at Navy, it ain’t about the players anyway – it’s coaching.

    In a nutshell, I don’t think it’s a big risk that PJ hasn’t worked at this level yet. It’s all about risk versus reward. TOB can probably average 7-8 wins a year here, but that’s probably his plateau. Due to his innovation, PJ has the potential to accomplish more.

    But in the words of Dennis Miller – “That’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.” 🙂

  11. CaptainCraptacular 12/06/2006 at 1:21 PM #

    Wolpfack, saw your comment after posting mine (took me a while to get that post entered). GMTA.

  12. wolpfack 12/06/2006 at 1:21 PM #

    I know one thing, if TOB and PJ dont pan out for whatever reason, Fowl-up full and well deserves to be fired for his incompetence…not interviewing someone on your B-list and seemingly burning a bridge in the process is just plain Duh-umb…

  13. REDforman 12/06/2006 at 1:21 PM #

    anyone know if tonight’s bb game is on tv, it’s not on accselect

  14. 98st8 12/06/2006 at 1:23 PM #

    Tom O’Brien makes me yawn and want to go to sleep. Boring… and I think the recruits are thinking the same thing. Someone please tell me a coach out there that had above average results at one school, then left, and had much better results at the new school. It doesn’t happen. We will get the same results as BC has gotten over the last several years. For those of you that are happy with that…that is dissapointing. I want somebody like Butch Davis who says to Carolina fans “If you want to go to the Peach Bowl, then I am not your man” We are a better footbal school than they are. Tom O’Brien gives us the frickin’ 4th place bowl. That sucks, we deserve more. This reminds me so much of the basketball search now… we are now throwing out average names and trying to pump them up to make ourselves feel better about the situation. The situation sucks in my opinion if TOB is the guy. If we are getting so much “interest” from all over the place, then why are we talking TOB?

  15. Cardiff Giant 12/06/2006 at 1:24 PM #

    “Do you expect the efforts to be apparent? RAWFS is praising Uncle Jed for keeping the search under wraps, you’re infuriated all the more because it is not apparent what the committee is doing.”

    I am infuriated for the reasons I stated. If you can’t understand those reasons, that’s your problem, not mine.

    “Don’t you think it is better to quiet and not be apparent than to have coaches afraid to contact us for fear of being found out by their current employer.”

    No.

  16. highonlowe 12/06/2006 at 1:25 PM #

    I agree with that, crappy. I would be happy with either TOB or PJ.

  17. GAWolf 12/06/2006 at 1:26 PM #

    BECAUSE BECAUSE BECAUSE our athletic department is run by a bunch of yahoos.

    Someone I admire greatly told me that Americans should stop voting party lines and vote for the candidate that has the most real-world, business experience or else our world will continue to be run by beaurocrats who have done nothing but sucked on the government teet for the entirety of their adult lives. We see it all the time… candidates who have “great experience” because they’ve worked in government for this agency and that department but have never not once had to work hard and understand the fiscally responsible act of being accountable for one’s actions.

    AD’s are frighteningly similar. We have a (bad) basketball coach for our AD. He’s in charge of a multimillion dollar business. Does that make any sense whatsoever to any of you?

  18. 98st8 12/06/2006 at 1:26 PM #

    cardiff giant^^ I agree with you 100%

  19. wolpfack 12/06/2006 at 1:27 PM #

    ^PQ – couldnt agree more…while I know it might be a faux pas for PJ to really say anything publicly, the fact that he has been denying contact just doesnt sit well…I would much rather have the guy who openly will admit he is interested and wants the job than the one who is all hush hush about it…I want to know a candidate is excited about the job opportunity…

    ^Capt – ahmen to that

  20. partialqualifier 12/06/2006 at 1:29 PM #

    98st8: Who IS your guy?

    I haven’t watched all of BC’s games but I am going to venture a guess that O’Brein wants to win games as bad as anybody in the country. Everybody wants to win the National Championship at NC State in football, but unless you are Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio St, USC, Michigan, Miami, Florida, or FSU….8-4 or 9-3 are pretty damn good seasons. I just find it amazing that some of us were ready to throw a parade for Amato after going 10-3, and yet we rip O’Brien cause he cant do better than 9-3!!! Wow!

  21. brown pelican 12/06/2006 at 1:30 PM #

    rickj—excellent post—effective offense requires the defense to defend all five skill players and the open space that you can get them in—balanced offense does not require a set ratio of run to pass

  22. brown pelican 12/06/2006 at 1:30 PM #

    rickj—excellent post—effective offense requires the defense to defend all five skill players and the open space that you can get them in—balanced offense does not require a set ratio of run to pass

  23. 98st8 12/06/2006 at 1:34 PM #

    PQ…I don’t know to be honest with you…. why not talk to Leach or Kragthope… seems like all the big name coaches nowadays came from smaller schools or as big time assistants not from re-tread head coaches.
    Stoops OC at Fla
    Meyer–small school head coach
    Tressel-small school head coach
    Richt OC at FSU
    etc

  24. 98st8 12/06/2006 at 1:40 PM #

    and I think people were wanting to give Chuck a parade for where we all thought the program was going…not for the season. Give me a dreamer that CAN coach.

  25. GrandWolf 12/06/2006 at 1:44 PM #

    From CaptainCraptacular: “Our best season since Sheridan was 11-3,”

    Well Capt’. Seems we both are a little guilty of homework negligence. I in mistakingly misrepresenting TOB’s bowl record and you in getting the coach’s record wrong. Sheridan’s best was 9-3. Amato’s best was 11-3. Sheridan never hit double-digit wins. 🙂

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