04/16/2015 at 6:52 PM #85183RickKeymaster
’87, I swear, the theme is so redundant, from the same people, I could do it with telepathathy and auto -write!
Am I the only one seeing the irony in how many times CD has mentioned redundancy?04/16/2015 at 6:59 PM #85184mak4dpakParticipant
Hey guys I am disappointed Lacey is leaving, next year was promising. But if we wanna keep good players, it is pretty obvious we need to recruit some talented white kids, because they generally stick around for 3-4 years, even if they have pro potential. Not meant as a racist remark, but just look at the guys who leave school early, and the facts are there. All about the $$$$$$. Though there have been exceptions in both cases.04/16/2015 at 6:59 PM #85185RickKeymaster
Tau… You got this covered.
[Iraqi information minister]’Everything is fine. Nothing to see here'[\iraqi information minister]04/16/2015 at 7:09 PM #85186
Not meant as a racist remark, but just look at the guys who leave school early, and the facts are there.
You mean like Sam Dekker? I know, I know. Exceptions.04/16/2015 at 7:37 PM #85187
He will play center in the NBA, provided he gets himself in better shape. He has a center’s size and wingspan and doesn’t have the requisite quickness to play forward.
We’ll see. Not a Center’s height. Agree he likely can’t play anything but Center. Wing span does help, but scarce offensive skill. Just off the top of my head:
Marc Gasol 7-1
Roy Hibbert 7-2
Deandre Jordan 6-11
Al Jefferson 6-10
Chris Bosh 6-11
Al Horford 6-10
Nikola Vucevic 7-0
Dwight Howard 6-11
DeMarcus Cousins 6-11
Andre Drummond 7-0
Tyson Chandler 7-1
Tiago Splitter 6-11
Kendrick Perkins 6-10
Samuel Dalembert 6-11
Larry Sanders 6-11
Omer Asik 7-0
Jordan Hill 6-10
Nerlens Noel 6-11
Enes Kanter 6-11
Jonas Valanciunus 7-0
Anderson Varejao 6-10
Robin Lopez 7-0
Andrew Bogut 7-0
Marcin Gortat 6-11
Nikola Pekovic 6-11
Brook Lopez 7-0
Joakim Noah 6-1104/16/2015 at 8:20 PM #85189StateRed44Participant
Nerlens Noel is 6’9 with a 2″ boxtop. He will play forward anyway.04/16/2015 at 8:32 PM #85191
A white kid is just as likely to go pro early as a black kid, given the opportunity. Everyone likes money. People are people.
If you want 3-4 year kids, you recruit 3-star players and run a “system” like HWSNBN. Except that you don’t have enough talent or play with enough offensive freedom to win a tournament. Until you do, like Wisconsin. Then your guys start leaving early just like everybody else (it just took you way longer to build to that point).
Ain’t no magic bullet.
If we don’t bring anybody in, sure we are boned. We don’t have enough warm bodies to practice, let alone play a full season. Well, I suppose we could make it through the season so long as nobody EVER gets hurt, sick, or in foul trouble.04/16/2015 at 9:17 PM #85192VaWolf82Keymaster
Ain’t no magic bullet.
No, but recruiting ACC-level talent and filling the allowed 13 scholarships would help.04/16/2015 at 9:20 PM #85193mak4dpakParticipant
I just hope if we invest in any future transfers, we get more then one year out of them. Seems like a poor investment when they give us just one. But that is risk that is taken. Hope Lacey made the right choice, and is successful. Seems he along with 28 others made the choice for the NBA.04/16/2015 at 10:49 PM #85194TexpackParticipant
I think Lacey will play in the NBA for more than a year or two. His game is well suited for the NBA. He is very good when the shot clock is winding down which is a major plus in the NBA. If he can show enough floor game to play some PG he will last a long time.04/16/2015 at 10:53 PM #85195Tau837Participant
Just off the top of my head:
I’m impressed that you knew all of those players and their heights off the top of your head. 😉
I don’t particularly think it matters to my point, though, since Anya has a bigger wingspan than every single player you listed. In basketball, it really doesn’t matter very much how high the top of your head is off the ground. Height matters because it is typically a big factor in determining how high a player can get off the floor in good position to either defend or score, and Anya has that in spades. Being able to convert on offense or defense must follow, and that will come down to how dedicated he is at getting and staying in shape and working at his craft. His raw tools are better than a lot of players you listed.04/16/2015 at 10:58 PM #85196
Problem is…Lacey can’t really play the point in college. I started averting my eyes when he did it for us after about mid-Feb. Which means he can’t do it in the pros. And his game isn’t special enough to be an NBA 2. You have to be REALLY f-ing good to be an NBA 2.04/16/2015 at 11:21 PM #85197MrPlywoodParticipant
I have watched more than a few D-League games while keeping up with TJ’s progress. There are a LOT of guys who can light it up at that level, but can’t get to the NBA for one reason or another. The D is kind of a holding cell for talent. And, unfortunately, a place to wither away for the less talented.
TJ can practically score at will in the D but hasn’t made much of an impact for the Suns. That could be for reasons other than his skill, but the point is that the competition is fierce. And if you don’t have a guaranteed contract, teams are much less invested in you, if at all. Lo Brown finally got a contract with the T-Wolves, due to his improvement but also to Rubio’s injury. Hopefully he can stick.
Re: BJ – if he comes back with a Buckets-like transformation this fall, I’m all in. Play your ass off, help the team make a run, get some press and get yourself drafted. No hard feelings.
I don’t have ill will toward Lacey either, it’s his decision, and he was a big part of the run this year.04/17/2015 at 5:23 AM #85198wolfmanmatParticipant
Bj wont get picked. Not a chance. He cant play the 4 and really cant play the 5 at nba level. The 5 has to be able to get up and down the court, guard the post, but also defend the big guy facing up. They also need to score besides on dunks. Bj is great help defender in college, but nba you dont leave to help nearly as much. He osnt picked this yeat. He gets down 30 pounds and can run the whole game then maybe he gets next year.04/17/2015 at 7:44 AM #85199choppack1Participant
Regarding the program itself, we’ve seen the ceiling unless the d improves.
To vawolf’s point – you’d have thought that the first season and this one showed the value of having a solid pg backup (that “backup” could also be your 2g) – so its on gott that we don’t have depth at this position. We didn’t have it before lacy left either.
Part time of the problem may be gott’s playing style: if you aren’t in the starting lineup, you can rot on the bench. He initially got away from that this year, but returned to it later in the year. If things were going smoothly, kW and Lee weren’t going to see the floor.
Of course, coach k rode his iron 7 to a championship, but he basically started 2 pgs (kind of like UConn last year.)
If there are no more defections/injuries we’ll have the athleticism to compete with anyone. The big question – aside from the issue of depth – is will we take the necessary step defensively. With lacy gone our d should improve (unless Henderson is sub par on that end of the floor.)04/17/2015 at 8:25 AM #85200tractor57Participant
It would be a rare person that could turn down decent money (and maybe great) for playing a sport that has consumed most all of their life – I think most all of us would do the same. I’ll simply say I have enjoyed watching Trevor and wish his all the best.
Other than that we are having the same old “discussions” about the same old topics. Go back a year and change the name from TJ to Lacey and the threads are surprisingly (or not surprisingly) similar. Gott can’t recruit, defense is the limiting factor, no back up for point, etc. This past season showed a team can improve through the season. The program has made some gains and the question at hand is can most of those gains be maintained and built upon.04/17/2015 at 8:27 AM #85202
Duke played 8. Starters plus Amile, Plumley and Allen.04/17/2015 at 9:56 AM #85203
I honestly don’t remember anyone thinking Buckets made a mistake or had anything left to prove for the NBA. His stock was as high as it was gonna get. Only the least self-aware among us would fail to admit that all regrets were selfish in nature.
Lacey COULD have helped himself by improving his shooting percentage, defense, and PG capabilities.04/17/2015 at 10:00 AM #85204MikeParticipant
I have read the posts and bit my tongue but finally giving in.
I hate it Lacey is leaving BUT………the kid is leaving to make a living playing a game, probably overseas but still going to make more than any (or most) of us to play a game. Good for him, bad for us, but life goes on. You never know – how many times did we stand around and wait for TL to create something? We played well against MD last year without TJ for a game and we played well the one game this year TL was out.
As far as the transfers go, this is really where I have bit my tongue. I understand transfers look bad, and we can argue until we are red in the face about how transfers reflect on the coach. No one mentioned that Dook and K also average about a transfer per year and no one is saying K is finished because of one and dones.
WHY do players transfer? Or more specifically, WHY do players transfer out of NC State? Rather than the obvious of PT, let’s look at the reality of college basketball today. I read somewhere that approximately 40% of players today will transfer or leave early. While that number seems high to me, it was from a reputable source and study. In my ever so humble and often wrong opinion, players transfer because expectations were not met, and the next point becomes whose expectations?
A player recruited to a D-1 program like NC State is a high level athlete, not just a good athlete, but an elite. The kid who can light up cross town rival high school for 20 a game does not get a sniff at this level. The kid is an elite athlete, pampered at every level, but more importantly, has been told he is the man, the star, the one always put on a pedestal. Now, put that kid in college where he is equal to everyone else, and all of a sudden, now he has to WORK in practice, WORK in the offseason, and continually improve his game. As an 18 year old, pampered through school and AAU, now all of a sudden he is not starting? What are the boys back home saying? What are the parents saying? Who has the kid’s ear?
Everyone back home is saying he is getting a raw deal, he is better than the guys starting in front of him. The kid listens, develops an attitude of “you are right” and it creates dissension on the team, chemistry issues. Go back and read the posts from Nov-Jan and many here talked about chemistry issues, who had the ball at crunch time, who was not passing to who and so on.
One of the hardest things in life is going from “the man” to one who has to pay his dues and wait his time. Kids today are not willing to do so. We live in an society that demands instant gratification and college basketball is no exception. I could go on but have rambled enough.04/17/2015 at 10:27 AM #85205MikeParticipant
New post to tack on to the previous. let’s take the case of Kyle. At 6’9″ in HS, he had a huge advantage over his competition and could probably score at will. He did not have to play D because his size was a dominant factor, likely going against a guy 4-5 inches smaller on most games. He could get by with D simply by being bigger and his weakness was not exposed.
This is a kid who STARTED 18 games this year as a sophomore, but started 25 as a freshman. It’s not like he did not have an opportunity to show what he could do. When he lost his starting position, we started playing better as a team. Freeman did a great job on D, rebounding, and being a glue guy. Kyle sees his time diminishing, so what is he thinking? He better score more – after all how can coach keep him out of the game if he is scoring? So he shoots almost every time he gets it, sometimes scoring, sometimes not, and taking bad shots. Meanwhile, getting toasted on D and rebounding, the case for more PT is not being helped. At this point, there are 2 choices – keep shooting, or work my butt off in practice to show I can play D and can rebound.
We dont know what happened in practice. We dont know what his attitude was – was he sulking or was he supporting those working harder? Maybe the lesser playing time was a result of practice time or an attitude adjustment wake up from the coaches.
I am sorry to see Kyle go, but let’s look at the future. He spent 2 years here, and wants more PT (who doesn’t). So he is leaving, and how much PT will he get next year? Oh yeah, NONE because he is sitting out. If he goes to a similar D-1 program, history will repeat itself with the same issues and nothing is resolved. If he goes to a smaller school D-1AA, the talent level is such that it wont make a big difference. A D-2 school, and then he really falls off the radar.
So what has he gained by leaving? Nothing, except maybe a reputation that he ran when the going got tough. Lacey is leaving for the pros because he sat out a year and is 23 and will be 24 next year as a senior – better get out now while I can. KW will be in the same situation, a 5th year player for his 2nd year on another team. Learning a new system, new coaches, and trying to fit in chemistry wise are not benefits.
The best solution is to wake up and look in the mirror and put in the effort it takes to improve your own game. But back to my previous post, the kids today are not willing to do that – they have never had to. They dont know how to. And most of all, the “people” they are listening to are giving them bad advice, filling their heads with what they want to hear, not what they need to hear. This is why kids are transferring, and many here want to blame Gott?
Examples – Lewis (dad), Purvis (mom and AAU), Harris (dad) Raymond, TDT, Harrow, and the list goes on. Rare, very rare exceptions does a transfer play out well. We GOTT very lucky with Lacey and Turner but for the most part in most cases a transfer is a lose/lose for the old school and the new school. Kids transferring is not always a reflection on the coach – I would say in most cases it is a reflection of the kid and his “supporters”.04/17/2015 at 10:29 AM #85206
^ You are most certainly desribing, to a T, TAFKAWBS from the 2013-14 season. I really never heard much about Angel of Death being that way on the wolven bench last season, but I’m sure he was at least thinking he could be the man elsewhere. That part is basic human nature 101, amplified by the AAU culture and modern “my kid’s shit doesn’t stink” parenting.
I honestly don’t mind a kid striking out for what he perceives as a better opportunity elsewhere. These are unpaid athletes, after all (YMMV about that, but I buy the exploitation argument to some degree). But I certainly DO draw the line when it comes to undermining the coach and stirring shit within the locker room, which is why I am still pissy about TAFKAWBS and the handful of people who still romanticize and pine for him on occasion.04/17/2015 at 10:34 AM #85207
I will say this about transfers – sometimes the fit is just bad. Who is really mature enough to make such a firm and life-altering decision at 17? Or even earlier? And sometimes there is a coaching change, so even if the kid DID make all the correct due diligence, it’s out the window now.
Which is why I am not opposed to transfers as a rule, you just have to be careful. The number and impulsivity of them is a problem that I do indeed blame on AAU culture and shitty parenting, as I noted above. But I wouldn’t want to overreact and start handcuffing kids to programs, either.04/17/2015 at 11:28 AM #85209tractor57Participant
All I ask of the athletes is to go to class and to be a positive influence on the team. Many of our previous transfers did not do the latter. I ask of the coaching staff is they provide the teaching and tool for our players to excel. If a player decides he/she would be better off at some other place I’m ok with that.04/17/2015 at 1:35 PM #85231choppack1Participant
I don’t see how you can blame kids for transferring if they believe they have a better opportunity elsewhere. I have no idea why lacy or Henderson or Turner left but you can bet they didn’t want to stay. Its like a failed marriage – there are likely 2 sides to the story – but time will indicate whether it’s someone who should never be married or if the person has “improved” as a result of the change.
However, I think its crazy to blame a kid who is clearly “not part of the long term plan” – for leaving.
In my professional life, if I can get a better wage and opportunity, I am leaving of I don’t believe that staying will be rewarded.04/17/2015 at 2:09 PM #85234WolfanaticParticipant
I’m old and my memory ain’t what it used to be, but who has transferred out of State since Gott arrived, that has gone on to be an impact player or all conference 1st or 2nd team at another D1 school?
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