Home › Forums › All StateFansNation › The last 24 hours haven’t been stellar for Mark Gottfried
- This topic has 151 replies, 45 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 1 month ago by Wufpacker.
04/28/2015 at 10:15 PM #85845MPParticipant
^ Watch out youz, somebody might wag their finger atcha.04/28/2015 at 10:24 PM #85847ancsu87Participant
This is why the title makes a difference. It gets picked up on webpages giving the totally wrong impression about the situation and state of our program.
http://sportspyder.com/teams/nc-state-wolfpack-basketball/news04/28/2015 at 10:54 PM #85848AdventurooParticipant
OK….my turn…..since everyone has weighed in.
First….the Title, how can I put this delicately, SUCKS!
Next….it is pretty appropriate…..look at the Magic Shirt. That was the one that we got our butt whipped many times in. But, it was also the one that Gott was wearing when we whipped VILLY….so it is a mixed bag. I do NOT like the photo.
As to Gott, it is grossly unfair. He has been out on the road and trying to locate some “Talent” for us. Tonight at the Coaches Caravan (Wake County), he talked rather directly about Lacey’s defection. He was candid and stated that Trevor will be “swimming upstream” and that it is TOUGH to make the NBA. However, he did further comment about how he has called his buddies in the NBA and is trying to get Lacey some “publicity” so that he will have a better shot. Right now, Lacey needs PR. He also talked (WRAL has an interview that is almost word for word what he said to the crowd) about how the college landscape is changing…and the need for the NCAA and the NBA to make some much needed changes.
He briefly touched on Kyle. Talked about Henderson.
So, I think that the rank and file are in his corner and this headline looks like it could have come from one of the Monkey Boards where the posters have their Captain America PJ’s and under them, their Wal-Mart UNC undies.
After listening to the interviews tonight and also the “STATS” on how we have gone fro #89 to #22 (but that changes daily) in the Director’s Cup standing….I was really proud (again) of my Wolf Pack…..and the differences between US and the pretend Student-Thug-Aletes down the road is striking.
GO PACK….don’t always agree with GOTT…but this is a bit of yellow journalism….04/28/2015 at 11:03 PM #85849
– Title: Probably a bit leading. Even “The last 24 hours haven’t been kind to MG” would be a little more balanced. I’m not going to criticize because other fan bases would and do say worse, but I do understand how some would get their feathers ruffled.
– Kirk’s coach obviously wants to open a Kentucky pipeline. Who wouldn’t? All the coaches want to move up in the ranks. Heck, a coach like HWSNBN might even hire him if they thought he could deliver multiple players.
– I’ve read Kirk’s recruiting has blown up recently since he reclassified. NC State got the commit because we were the biggest fish. Of the local programs, I think WF may have been on him earlier.
– No need to knock the grades issue. He’ll get into Kentucky regardless. He may get into NC State regardless. The whole student athlete thing is a joke anyways.
– As for the whole thing, we loved Amato when he pulled something similar and it was “life in the fast lane.”
– The reality is that there are very few “bigger fish” than NC State, so we’re not used to this. Imagine how every small major or mid-major feels on virtually any local recruit that they identify early that suddenly blows up and ends up at a high major? We’ve just happened to run up against a lot of bigger fish this year, and we don’t have immediate PT to offer as a key enticement.
– If you don’t have the stomach for 17 year olds constantly changing their minds, don’t follow recruiting. I don’t follow football recruiting and probably will stop following basketball recruiting. Wake me up 3 weeks before the season when we know who is actually going to lace them up.
– Arch: I’m not one opining for him. If the stars align, great. If not, then so be it. Having said that, I don’t think he has a “new job.” The last I read he’d signed an extension at Dayton.
– GoWolves and others: Please don’t define all those who question the direction of the program as miserable humans and bad fans. We saw far too much of this during the HWSNBN years. Just because people don’t agree with your view, doesn’t make them miserable people. They want good things for the program just as much as you do. They just don’t agree with you on what’s best for the program.
– When I see stuff like this, I know we’re in the HWSNBN wars, but part 2. It has clearly started. The camps are forming. The wagons are circling.04/28/2015 at 11:04 PM #85850freshmanin83Participant
They say women who hang out together have their cycles sync up. That is the only explanation I can come up with for the whining about an innocuous title.
lol who loves ya baby04/28/2015 at 11:33 PM #85853ancsu87Participant
I agree with all but part of ryebread’s comments. I don’t see how we could have a HWSNBN part 2 yet. Not saying if might not rightfully get to that in years 5 and/or 6. However after year 4 I don’t recall HWSNBN going to 4 NCAAT and making 2 Sweet 16. The program when he took over may had less talent but the chaos it was in when Gott took over evens that out. At this point in time if you want to stop the rebuilding then staying on board with Gott and bring positive are the best options as I see it. Until the staff and Gott show me a reason to indicate they ain’t still aiming higher than what they achieved already then I can’t bitch and moan too much04/29/2015 at 12:00 AM #85854TexpackParticipant
Nitwits are, on the otherhand, perennials.
That means, for the horticulturally challenged, they may go dormant, but they always come back.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t lead a horticulture.04/29/2015 at 12:13 AM #85855WufpackerParticipant04/29/2015 at 5:57 AM #85857
I’m never going to stop going after the ‘A-List’ guys,” Gottfried said. “If that means we miss and end up short-handed, so be it.”
http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article19837203.html#storylink=cpy04/29/2015 at 6:59 AM #85858
For the record I did not w write the headline.
I an tired of people focusing on me.04/29/2015 at 7:58 AM #85860TexpackParticipant
The college game has reached the point where programs almost need to hire a GM or player personnel director.
Gott made a few comments around the time he was hired that have proven to be pretty good indicators of his recruiting philosophy.
When asked about what went wrong at Alabama, he said that he had “reached” on some kids or something along those lines. I also got the sense that he was determined not to plug up the roster with non ACC caliber talent.
When asked what he learned by watching all of the games he did as an analyst, he said that the team with the most talent wins 80-90% of the time iirc. This is why he consistently goes after the tip top guys. He knows he won’t win big without them. He doesn’t want to do the Tony Bennett thing and try to win semi-big with a system. He wants great talent and he believes that in the UCLA offense he can allow that talent to shine no matter where it is on the court. I think the first four years have shown this to be true.
This approach has obvious drawbacks and risks when you aren’t UK, Duke, etc. You can see that even UK got caught nekked going into next season, at least by their standards.
Gott has also shown a really good understanding of how to play the transfer game. Alex Johnson, BSW, Des, and Lacey have all been important pieces.
If he continues to get to the Sweet 16 50% of the time his success rate will go up with the A list guys.
I like the fact that he has a consistent approach and doesn’t panic at the first sign of problems. He has certainly earned the right to play this out a while longer.04/29/2015 at 8:21 AM #85861
ancsu87: We’re in the early stage of the “wars” over Gottfried. They actually started in the middle of this past season.
When you see people fighting over a post title, calling those in the opposing “camp” miserable people, running down former HOF coaches (seen particularly around V to justify some of our poor regular season play), people focusing on the poster as much as the post because that poster is a in a “group” that they know they don’t agree with, people arguing to blindly trust in the coach and some discounting the overall value of our program against clearly identified 3rd party metrics that state otherwise, then those are the signs. Most of those are right here in this thread. If you can’t see them here, stop by the Lacey transferring thread and you’ll see them all.
This isn’t a direct comparison because HWSNBN because we’ve not had 5 years of utter failure. Things didn’t become divided with HWSNBN though during that period of failure. They became divided when we had “success” and the spin started to justify it being better than it was.
The division is more about the directional trajectory of the program, and what’s really good enough for NC State. We know when it’s clearly not acceptable (Lowe, first five years of HWSNBN), but what should we reasonably expect? Those were the HWSNBN wars, and I contend they’ve started around Gott.
I was hoping the Sweet 16 would have at least pushed them down to smoldering, but the Lacey departure and recruiting misses over the past few weeks have shown them flaring up again. If they weren’t there, you wouldn’t see the tone of the posts over the events of the past three weeks.
But hey, I could be wrong. I really hope that I am. The second 5 years of HWSNBN were my low point as a NC State fan.04/29/2015 at 8:42 AM #85862JasonPParticipant
And while cry over a recruiting battle (that we just might win – keep the faith guys!), Coach K has nearly completed Duke’s transition into the Calipari Kinntucky model…and no one says a word. As a matter of fact, K’s reloading on one year talent is better than Cal’s this offseason. So K has molded his program after a guy who’s left his last two programs under sanctions; a guy who everyone suspects of cheating – and no one seems to be asking about it. Would love to hear someone ask K some tough questions and do some investigations. Somehow I doubt that happens…04/29/2015 at 8:58 AM #85863VaWolf82Keymaster
Let me remind everyone that dissenting opinions are not discouraged…while personal attacks are not acceptable. If you disagree with someone’s opinions/conclusions address those without attacking the individual.
Whining about the mods is also frowned upon and I cleaned up several of those.04/29/2015 at 9:21 AM #85865TheCOWDOGModerator
Va: Most participants understand and respect your philosophy on the difference between attacking a position, and attacking charactor.
However, the same understanding is expected to be displayed by the Mods. No? Perhaps Keymasters might even be held to a higher standard?04/29/2015 at 9:24 AM #85866
Duke is recruiting itself. With K’s experience with Team USA, placing kids in the NBA every year, who are having solid careers, and now another national championship, it is no wonder why he is getting the top players.04/29/2015 at 9:33 AM #85867
The machine is rolling at Duke. It really started years ago with those degrees that could be earned in 3 years for basketball players out of the school of business. If they could graduate kids in 3 years while playing a D1 sport with all of that travel, they can certainly keep them eligible for a year.
I have found it interesting that K has started accepting 1 and dones. I think the talent getting stacked up at Kentucky and UNC was too much to ignore. If you can’t beat them, join them.
No one at the NCAA is ever going to ask questions about Duke and K. K is untouchable and now has the weight of USA Basketball and the US Olympic Foundation behind him.
Our only hope is that he eventually gets bored and retires. My gut says he’ll be coaching well past his prime because his ego won’t let him do anything else.04/29/2015 at 9:56 AM #85868VaWolf82Keymaster
However, the same understanding is expected to be displayed by the Mods.
As rye has quite elegantly elucidated, the battle lines are slowly but surely being drawn. Some have already given up hope and others refuse to acknowledge that any issues exist. Disagreeing without rancor is a difficult line to walk. But navigating that thin line should be the goal of any intelligent conversation…and I’m not really interested in participating in anything less.
Within about six months of him being forced to retire, I had the “pleasure” of getting screamed at by Admiral Hyman G. Rickover. He was a controversial figure, but absolutely nailed it with his definition of responsibility.
“Responsibility is a unique concept… You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you… If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible.”
Many discussions run aground because there is no common ground on exactly what to hold the coach responsible for. But for me, this is quite simple. The good and the bad from any college program begins and ends with the head coach. He/she gets credit/blame for wins/losses, running a clean program, etc. He/she does not deserve any “credit” for finishing second in a recruiting battle. In recruiting, second place is merely the last loser. Winning a recruiting battle is “good”…but doesn’t mean anything until it translates into wins/losses. Transfers and transfer rates might be interesting to track, but doesn’t necessarily mean anything in the larger context. Just like signing three McD AA in the same recruiting class didn’t really pay huge dividends for State.
In the larger context, all stats should be used to explain the final score/record. If your “data” doesn’t do that, it might be interesting to discuss but it doesn’t really mean anything. If we focus our conversation on meaningful facts/observations, then it might be easier to walk the line between disagreement and being disagreeable.
BTW…for the life of me, I can’t figure out why anyone would be offended by the thread title. Is anyone saying that Gottfried had a “good 24 hours”?04/29/2015 at 10:08 AM #85869
BTW…for the life of me, I can’t figure out why anyone would be offended by the thread title. Is anyone saying that Gottfried had a “good 24 hours”?
My recent experience is anything deemed “negative” is criticized and attacked. No matter the basis for the statement or the logical support it has.
And I agree about the comparison to the Herb wars.04/29/2015 at 10:27 AM #85870OutWestWolfParticipant
I would say that Gottfried had a very normal 24 hours in what is currently the landscape in D1 BB. And, the fact is the title is loaded with other negative insinuations based on the “loss” of a 5 start recruit and some competition over another. And, I think some of the readership here thought that a silly premise and felt compelled to call out what is a DIVISIVE headline.
Perhaps what your getting at is there is just no space on this site for calling someone out whose got a quick trigger to bash the leadership.04/29/2015 at 10:39 AM #85871
Perhaps what your getting at is there is just no space on this site for calling someone out whose got a quick trigger to bash the leadership.
But where is the “bashing” you refer to?04/29/2015 at 10:58 AM #85872
I don’t see bashing. What I see is some raising legitimate concerns, while others don’t want to hear it, or will just wait and see. If you read the article I posted above, it is clear Gott knows he missed this time around.04/29/2015 at 11:14 AM #85873
I don’t see bashing. What I see is some raising legitimate concerns, while others don’t want to hear it, or will just wait and see. If you read the article I posted above, it is clear Gott knows he missed this time around.
That is the way I see it as well. I understand the wait and see viewpoint. Gott has done some good things here but he has also missed some good opportuniteis as well. What I don’t get is people getting so mad about legitimate concerns (players leaving, seven scholarship players etc). In the end it is all about winning and all we are doing is keeping ourselves busy discussing the minutia of the process.04/29/2015 at 11:22 AM #85874WTNYParticipant
This is why the title makes a difference. It gets picked up on webpages giving the totally wrong impression about the situation and state of our program.
Thank you and well said.
SFN not only reports news/opinion, it also can make news.04/29/2015 at 11:29 AM #85875primacyoneParticipant
…..“I don’t pay much attention to people that are dialing ‘911’ right now,” Gottfried said.
When Gottfried was hired, he said he would go after the best players, regardless of the other schools recruiting them, and he has been true to his word.
“I’m never going to stop going after the ‘A-List’ guys,” Gottfried said. “If that means we miss and end up short-handed, so be it.”
Gottfried has built a talented roster – six of the seven players were rated in the top 100 of their respective classes coming out of high school – but has fallen short in some recent battles with Kentucky (Julius Randle), North Carolina (Kennedy Meeks) and Duke (Ingram).
“It’s not necessarily the guys you lose in recruiting that hurt your program,” Gottfried said. “It’s the guys you take that aren’t good enough. Those guys hurt your program.
“For us, we’re going after the top guys and the guys we believe that can help us compete for an ACC championship or a national championship. I’m not going to do anything different.”…
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article19837203.html#storylink=cpy
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