In Defense Of C.J. Leslie

12-13 Basketball83

Leslie Celebrates Win over DukeIt seems that most State fans are in agreement that this season’s basketball team (while they had a good season and expectations were perhaps a bit too high) underachieved. The other constant seems to be a lot of criticism for C.J. Leslie.

After last year’s Sweet Sixteen run, there were signs of Leslie’s maturation. There was a SI story that SFN wrote about in August that featured AD Debbie Yow’s involvement with Leslie. This was also evident when the two had a nice little moment after the Georgetown win (mentioned in this SFN entry).

Then there was the win over #1 Duke at home where Leslie scored 25 points and had a big assist after the game, rescuing wheelchair bound student Will Privette during the court storming and the pair were featured on The Today Show where he represented himself, the team and the university well.

Seems like things were going pretty well for C.J. Leslie at that point after beating the Dookies. Sure, he still had his moments here and there. But there were signs of his off-season maturation, he had scored in double figures in every game except the Oklahoma State debacle, had only fouled out of one game (OK State again), dropped 25 on the #1 team in the country and had the awareness to help out a fellow student in a sea of court stormers.

So what went wrong?

Here’s my opinion of when things changed – when Lorenzo Brown turned his ankle at UVA. With our point guard out of the lineup, I think Leslie tried way too hard to put the team on his back and completely screwed up his game. While he may not have gone about it in quite the right way, I think it’s still admirable that the guy tried to step up.

In the 3 games Brown was out of the lineup, Leslie averaged 18 points and 10.7 rebounds while shooting 57%. But, going back to my theory of trying too hard, he also averaged 4.3 turnovers per game. This is also the point in the season when it seemed like Leslie started to force the ball in the paint against double teams, resulting in turnovers and travels from switching pivot feet more than Ron Kelley. And because he was forcing the action, he wasn’t getting the benefit of the doubt from ACC officials. And we all know that ACC officials wouldn’t have any preconceived opinions on player tendencies to begin with.

So now Leslie is dealing with the team losing some games, bad habits creeping into his game and no love from the officials. And as the season went on you saw Leslie getting more and more frustrated with the officiating (as did plenty of State fans). When he starting forcing the action Leslie probably lost what little benefit of the doubt he had from ACC officials. But when legitimate fouls weren’t being called, Leslie was obviously frustrated and rightfully so.

I’ve read countless times where people complain that Leslie isn’t coachable. But it seemed to me like down the stretch, a lot of those bad habits in his game were scaled back. After a 6 turnover game in Chapel Hill (after which Coach Gottfried called him out in public), one of multiple games with 4 to 7 turnovers a game, Leslie never had more than 3 turnovers in the last 8 games of the season. He started looking for his jump shot more and going straight up with the ball more rather than picking up his dribble, switching pivot feet and forcing the ball up inside against multiple defenders. It even seemed like he cut down on the 1 or 2 obvious goaltends he would commit every game.

And even though the kid messed his game up trying too hard and then made an effort to fix some his problems, I’ve read nothing but criticism. And to be fair, he’s not free of blame on how the season ended. He could have been a little more composed with the officiating, played better defense and hit more free throws.

But I’m not sure C.J. Leslie deserves the level of criticism he’s been getting. SFN linked to a N&O story on Leslie trying to roll with the criticism. I haven’t ventured on the Pack Pride monkey boards much after the Temple game so I can only imagine what has been said there, but here on SFN (where I like to think folks have a little more common sense) I’ve read comments that if Coach Gottfried goes to UCLA he should take Leslie with him, comments that neither Leslie or Brown should be welcome back on next year’s team and plenty of people that just want him to leave.

While he absolutely has his flaws and plenty of room for improvement, C.J. Leslie is the most physically gifted NC State player in the past 20 years, an All-ACC performer putting up 15 and 7 and everybody wants to throw him out on his ear. I find that kinda sad.

Personally I want him to stay. I can’t imagine his NBA draft status has risen after this season so I’m not sure he’s ready for the pros. And if you’re like me, you’ve loved seeing Richard Howell blossom in his senior season, getting the most out of his potential. I would love to see C.J. Leslie do the same in his senior season. It’s unknown if he would ever put it all together as a senior but I’d like to see him have the opportunity.

But if I’m C.J. Leslie, I go pro. I wouldn’t blame him one bit. Why deal with no respect from the fans and the officials here in Raleigh for free when you can go get paid in the NBA.

I don’t know how many people will agree with me, based on a lot of the previous comments I’m guessing not many although I’m hoping there’s a few that agree. And I might be way off on all this, I have no knowledge of any of the team’s internal issues, I only know what I’ve seen on the court. Like Dennis Miller always said: Of course, that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.

About WV Wolf

Graduated from NCSU in 1996 with a degree in statistics. Born and inbred in West "By God" Virginia and now live in Raleigh where I spend my time watching the Wolfpack, the Mountaineers and the Carolina Hurricanes as well as making bar graphs for SFN. I'm @wvncsu on the Twitter machine.

12-13 Basketball

83 Responses to In Defense Of C.J. Leslie

  1. Hawkeye Whitney 03/26/2013 at 1:58 PM #

    CJ is still basically a kid, just like most college students. I wish him the best whether he stays or goes. His demeanor has always seemed a bit odd on the court. Most of the time, I honestly can’t tell if he’s pressing too hard or if he is being too lackadaisical. If he comes back, I think he would be well advised to simply trust his teammates and to have fun on the court. He seems to be one one of those guys who needs reminding that this, in the end, is just a game. Forget about everything for a couple of hours, play your a$$ off and have fun.

  2. Packzingo 03/26/2013 at 2:02 PM #

    Great post, agree with most points.
    What Pack fan wouldn’t want a player of CJ’s talent back? Come on folks…….. Yes, he has some things to learn but how many coaches do we employ?????? If the moneys good, go get it and don’t look back. Personnally, I’d love to see him return!

  3. Deacon Blues 03/26/2013 at 2:13 PM #

    CJ did not create the hype that set expectations.

    He is an above average college player, if he sticks around and a little more clicks, he could be a great one.

    When everyone is keying in on you and you average 15, your not bad, but you may not live up to the hype.

    I do not blame him I blame a 6 to 7 man rotation for the majority of our issues. Fix the dept and a lot of the rest of this takes care of itself.

  4. ILPackfan 03/26/2013 at 2:22 PM #

    I’m in agreement with most of the posters here. CJ’s still young, and I’m loathe in general to start getting on college players as if they’re in the NBA.

    Honestly, I think both CJ and Lo have flaws in their games that are going to require some work at the next level. Especially CJ, since he’s either going to need to bulk up to play PF or work on his mid-range game to play SF. I think Lo’s game may translate a little better out of the gate, but he’s got to develop a more consistent jumper, especially from longer ranges.

    It would be nice to have either or both back to have their experience and as a chance to work on some of those issues. But I could understand if both of them end up leaving early. That kind of money is a powerful lure.

    On the other hand, it seems like CJ and Lo are in the middle of most NBA prospect lists (depending on how many freshmen actually leave). It’s not like either one is going to be a lottery pick this year, and that may be a reason to stay.

    Anyway, I’m wishing all the kids well, no matter what their upcoming decisions may be. Go Pack!

  5. coach13 03/26/2013 at 2:25 PM #

    I’ve never been big on bashing CJ. He is what he is, a very talented (offensively) basketball player. A mediocre to poor defensive player. Yes the swats are dazzling at times but as far as every possesion sound defense? uh-uh.

    Our depth and lack of options amplified CJ’s weaknesses. I use the Temple game as a prime example. When we were busy stinking up the first half, CJ IMO played some of the worst defense. BUT on the other hand he was the only one scoring.

    What was Gott supposed to do? Bench him for walk-ons? We had/have no great options. He was what he was and gave us some great moments. He still has alot of maturing and development to do, hope he gets a chance somehow.

  6. vtpackfan 03/26/2013 at 2:33 PM #

    Just too much psycho analyst amateurism flung at, around and on the young man. I knew some things of his past- I am friends with a former Garner Road AAU coach that had him as a young teen, and there was a time where CJ was heading in a really bad way. He was never a trouble maker, just so many traits that derail many super talented youths from making it to their potential. He has really made tremendous strides and those close to him know it.

    What I saw was a bit better handle taking it up court, another post move (relied 100% on same one last year) the ability to hit the jumper from the key more often (it had been consistently an air-ball in the past) and a higher basketball awareness of others on the court. His assists don’t jump out at you and the TOs were still high, but a lot came from trying some nifty passes to Rich and others around the basket.

    That’s my defense. If Calvin or CJ decide to come back one more year and finish a degree than that’s a fantastic development. If he decides to proceed to the pro level than I’ll be following along cheering for him big time to succeed.

  7. xansbro 03/26/2013 at 3:27 PM #

    WV – without first reading the 3 pages of comments, let me sincerely thank you for this post. I’ve contemplated writing such a post for a few weeks now but assumed I didn’t have the forum cred to pull it off. I agree wholeheartedly with what you had to say.

    Sports become a dangerous thing when we invest so much into teams and individuals that our contentment in life can be thrown in the toilet when those things don’t quite give us the results we demand. Critiquing a team, coach, and individual players for the play on the court is to be expected – as it would be in any other profession (though the players are not professionals; are getting paid). However, once my own internal heart issues begin to spew forth vile that sounds much like an attack on one’s character – then I think I need to step away from opening my mouth and allowing the rest of the world hear it.

    It’s always amusing to me to see how regular posters on here relate to newbies. There’s an assumption by some that these newcomers don’t have the credibility to add to the conversation. I suppose they very seldom consider that some of those who are just now posting have been visiting the site for many years with an observant eye and listening ear. The lack of posts they produce should be little indicator of their investment in the site. It often may be a simple restraint to not spew forth the anger and resentment they, too, feel in their hearts when they get too caught up in the frustrating world of fandom.

    Like you, I see CJ’s struggles as relating to too often trying to hard rather than not enough. The effort was there on most occasions – which we were desperately looking for after that discouraging freshman season. I saw a great amount of passion from him the last season and a half of basketball. That, too, produced negative results at times.

    But listening to some fans and most media members speak, it seems the CJ or Calvin issue was always centered around whether he really “wanted” it or not. I, for one, saw a young man that really wanted to succeed for this university, for his teammates, and for himself on most nights.

    As is so often the case, the media writes a script for us and the lazy among us drink from their rusty spigots until our insides have been tainted by their negative dribble. Even in some of the games when CJ was a “no-show” – it was, at times, because he was too aggressive, too turnover-prone, and too upset about the refs calls or lack thereof. He was silenced on the bench. Yet, the inference from him playing such a small role when State failed miserably was often that he didn’t show up or didn’t care. I couldn’t disagree more. He cared too much at times.

    I’m certainly not trying to say that there weren’t times when his mind wandered on defense and his lapses cost the team dearly. I’m not saying that there weren’t times when he likely got down on himself and teammates and coaching staff and didn’t play with the fire we needed him to play with. But how many players, or for that matter any of us in our chosen profession, always give our best each and every time we show up?

    Can we not understand our own weaknesses in such a way that we extend a little more grace to those who struggle at times? I guess we can’t when we become overly consumed with a sport meant to entertain us.

  8. PackerInRussia 03/26/2013 at 3:32 PM #

    On ESPN America, they play a commercial all the time that re-tells the Will Privette story and CJ comes across really well in it. Seems like a nice person. I wish he could have done more this season, but I don’t hate the guy. I assume he’s gone, but would be happy to have him back.

  9. tjfoose1 03/26/2013 at 4:24 PM #

    I agree with you, WV.

  10. bill-1956 03/26/2013 at 4:48 PM #

    Well spoken article / post. I agree completely. Best wishes to Calvin on whatever he decides.

  11. wilmwolf80 03/26/2013 at 5:11 PM #

    It is all about perception. Unfortunately, there are some fans and media members that cannot get over an unfavorable perception that they have of Calvin not “wanting it”. IMO, when we as outsiders start trying to judge what is on the inside of a person, solely based on their facial expressions and body language, that is when we run in to trouble. I have no doubt that Calvin wants to succeed. Why would he not? The success of this team ultimately benefits his future.

    Also, statistically speaking CJ had a really good year. Look at his numbers compared to Plumlee, even though they don’t really play the same position. They are very close in most categories. Plumlee was considered as a strong candidate for ACC POY by some, even up to the end of the season. Calvin was considered a disappointment. Some of that has to do with the success of each players team, but mostly it is about an unfortunate bias.

    Yes, there are things that CJ could have done better. Yes, there are some habits that he has that are frustrating. However, name me a college player that is perfect, because I have not seen one. No matter what he chooses, I will support and root for CJ. He is, and always will be, a fellow Wolfpacker, and that is good enough for me.

  12. nouveau wolf 03/26/2013 at 5:12 PM #

    ” There could be worse things than having your 3rd or 4th best player return, as long as he understands that he may not be good enough to start next year depending on how well the new big men can shoot, rebound, and pass out of a triple team. If sitting the bench doesn’t ruin team chemistry, I’d love to have him back.”

    ” his attitude stunk and it brought the team down. His performance at UNC this year was embarrassing. He needs a change of scenery and it will benefit the Pack. I just don’t think he gets it. Time to move on and wish him luck in the pros. He will need it.”

    So many posters have been able to respectfully discuss the good and bad aspects of Leslie’s game. But it’s angry, mean-spirited comments like these, with absolutely NO recognition of the special moments this 20 year-old has contributed to, that make me loathe to check in to SFN(which I do very infrequently anymore).

  13. bill.onthebeach 03/26/2013 at 5:20 PM #

    ^ noted…. traffic down across the board… at SFN…..
    can’t blame Calvin for that….

  14. Pack Mentality 03/26/2013 at 5:33 PM #

    Nouveau wolf,
    You’re the one who called out those comments. I was doing nothing but discussing my opinion of his game. Please explain how it was mean spirited, since you called me out. Otherwise, you could just disagree with it like most people on here are doing. Thanks for your response, and I thoroughly apologize if I keep you from the site.

  15. 13OT 03/26/2013 at 5:56 PM #

    Jediwolf: I hope CJ and Lorenzo both come back for their senion season. Any State fan that doesn’t is an idiot.

    Count this State fan as an idiot.

  16. nouveau wolf 03/26/2013 at 7:09 PM #

    Pack Mentality:

    I know you are a regular poster on this site. You are obviously a knowledgeable fan.

    But if you think CJ Leslie would not be good enough to start on next year’s team, you are delusional. It reads as though you are so annoyed with Leslie’s faults and, unsubstantiated, chemistry issues that “screw the guy that was part of our sweet 16 team; the guy that helped beat dook and unx this year; the guy that picked up Will and celebrated with him; the guy with whose help we came within a Reggie Johnson illegal shove to Howell’s back while Lo was out beating Miami; etc…

    A little appreciation would be nice before you say that you don’t think he could start next year, and if he does, try not to poison the team.

    Are you angry or obtuse?

    Simply put: your post contained nothing but negative, snarky, comments in a thread called “In Defense of CJ Leslie”.

  17. FunPack 03/26/2013 at 7:12 PM #

    I want them both back. With no reservations. I agree with WV Wolf and will wish CJ and Lo the best no matter what they decide. I realize this is sports we are talking about, and unreasonable (or maybe semi-reasonable) expectations go along with fandom, but I’ve gotten better over the years at stepping back and looking at the big picture rather than stressing out over every imperfection that my teams and players have. I would encourage everyone to do this as best you can. It doesn’t lessen your enthusiasm and it’s better for your blood pressure.

  18. Pack Mentality 03/26/2013 at 7:45 PM #

    Nouveau:
    I acknowledge that he is physically gifted enough to start on an ACC team. He has played very well in some games. My opinion happens to differ from yours. I do not think he was any better than the 3rd or 4th best player on this year’s team. I do not think that he helped chemistry on the team at all, and maybe hurt it. I am allowed that opinion, right? I do not know if he would help the team next year if he didn’t improve on certain aspects of his game. That is a legitimate opinion, right? I think that he lost some games for us this year. I know that he played very well in some games too.

    Why was the big cutout of him to hold up when the other team shoots free throws? He has gotten more than his share of praise that was undeserved. Not Brown, not Howell, not Warren, it was CJ who everybody thought was supposed to be the best player and they never seemed to let up on that idea once it started. CJ believed the hype and thought he could force things and was wrong about it and it hurt the team.

    I don’t have anything against him as a person. Can I not say negative things about his playing without sounding mean spirited against a “kid”.

  19. Wulfpack 03/26/2013 at 8:04 PM #

    Gott rode him hard this year, and it didn’t work. He called him out, and it didn’t work. I don’t know what else he could have done except bench him, but that wasn’t really an option.

    I do not dislike Leslie. Don’t know the kid. But I do know he didn’t grasp what was being taught. He is supremely talented and will play at the next level. I just think he underachieved, and had a poor attitude when things didn’t go his way. If he had the motor of a Richard Howell, this piece would have never needed to be written.

  20. Wulfpack 03/26/2013 at 8:09 PM #

    And I, and many others, feel it is just time to turn the page. We have some great young talent, and it is time for them to take leadership roles. The chemistry issues are well documented. Whether you want to believe it or not, much of it had to do with Leslie. I truly believe Gott is ready for a clean slate with his guys. He tried to get through to Leslie. Worked some games and not others. He was absolutely furious after the UNC game, and called Leslie on it.

  21. choppack1 03/26/2013 at 8:39 PM #

    Great post wv wolf. The majority of wolfpack nation is in blame the player mode. (Look st posts from Lowe’s first 3 years if you want a refresher.)

  22. choppack1 03/26/2013 at 8:42 PM #

    Great post wv wolf. The majority of wolfpack nation is in blame the player mode. (Look st posts from Lowe’s first 3 years if you want a refresher.)

    I hope he comes back and continues to grow as a played and person. And personally, I want every kid who wears the nc state uniform to look back at college years and smile.

    And I want coaches and their assistants to do same.

  23. MISTA WOLF 03/26/2013 at 9:54 PM #

    “Living without you
    Living alone
    This empty house seems so cold
    Wanting to hold you
    Wanting you near
    How much I wanted you home.”
    We dont want to feel this way next year. I welcome C.J. and Lorenzo back with “open arms.” If they come back I guarantee a MF ACC championship (says this here bottle of Maker’s Mark.) Go PACK!!!!

  24. nouveau wolf 03/26/2013 at 9:57 PM #

    PM and Wulfpack,

    Thank you for the civil discourse. Certainly we are allowed our own opinions. However, if you read the posts I quoted, and then read your subsequent posts, the objectivity seems to ring a lot harder in the latter.

    Seriously, read your 1st posts and then the next ones and tell me there’s not a LOT more “Screw him” in the 1st, rather than the rational, balanced opinons that followed.

    If you think not, then we agree to disagree. Just telling you how I see it.

  25. Pack Mentality 03/26/2013 at 10:14 PM #

    Nouveau,
    After you called me angry, obtuse, and I was referred to as an idiot by another poster, I guess then I decided to be more civil. Thanks for teaching me that lesson.

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