In Defense Of C.J. Leslie

12-13 Basketball83

Leslie Celebrates Win over DukeIt seems that most State fans are in agreement that this season’s basketball team (while they had a good season and expectations were perhaps a bit too high) underachieved. The other constant seems to be a lot of criticism for C.J. Leslie.

After last year’s Sweet Sixteen run, there were signs of Leslie’s maturation. There was a SI story that SFN wrote about in August that featured AD Debbie Yow’s involvement with Leslie. This was also evident when the two had a nice little moment after the Georgetown win (mentioned in this SFN entry).

Then there was the win over #1 Duke at home where Leslie scored 25 points and had a big assist after the game, rescuing wheelchair bound student Will Privette during the court storming and the pair were featured on The Today Show where he represented himself, the team and the university well.

Seems like things were going pretty well for C.J. Leslie at that point after beating the Dookies. Sure, he still had his moments here and there. But there were signs of his off-season maturation, he had scored in double figures in every game except the Oklahoma State debacle, had only fouled out of one game (OK State again), dropped 25 on the #1 team in the country and had the awareness to help out a fellow student in a sea of court stormers.

So what went wrong?

Here’s my opinion of when things changed – when Lorenzo Brown turned his ankle at UVA. With our point guard out of the lineup, I think Leslie tried way too hard to put the team on his back and completely screwed up his game. While he may not have gone about it in quite the right way, I think it’s still admirable that the guy tried to step up.

In the 3 games Brown was out of the lineup, Leslie averaged 18 points and 10.7 rebounds while shooting 57%. But, going back to my theory of trying too hard, he also averaged 4.3 turnovers per game. This is also the point in the season when it seemed like Leslie started to force the ball in the paint against double teams, resulting in turnovers and travels from switching pivot feet more than Ron Kelley. And because he was forcing the action, he wasn’t getting the benefit of the doubt from ACC officials. And we all know that ACC officials wouldn’t have any preconceived opinions on player tendencies to begin with.

So now Leslie is dealing with the team losing some games, bad habits creeping into his game and no love from the officials. And as the season went on you saw Leslie getting more and more frustrated with the officiating (as did plenty of State fans). When he starting forcing the action Leslie probably lost what little benefit of the doubt he had from ACC officials. But when legitimate fouls weren’t being called, Leslie was obviously frustrated and rightfully so.

I’ve read countless times where people complain that Leslie isn’t coachable. But it seemed to me like down the stretch, a lot of those bad habits in his game were scaled back. After a 6 turnover game in Chapel Hill (after which Coach Gottfried called him out in public), one of multiple games with 4 to 7 turnovers a game, Leslie never had more than 3 turnovers in the last 8 games of the season. He started looking for his jump shot more and going straight up with the ball more rather than picking up his dribble, switching pivot feet and forcing the ball up inside against multiple defenders. It even seemed like he cut down on the 1 or 2 obvious goaltends he would commit every game.

And even though the kid messed his game up trying too hard and then made an effort to fix some his problems, I’ve read nothing but criticism. And to be fair, he’s not free of blame on how the season ended. He could have been a little more composed with the officiating, played better defense and hit more free throws.

But I’m not sure C.J. Leslie deserves the level of criticism he’s been getting. SFN linked to a N&O story on Leslie trying to roll with the criticism. I haven’t ventured on the Pack Pride monkey boards much after the Temple game so I can only imagine what has been said there, but here on SFN (where I like to think folks have a little more common sense) I’ve read comments that if Coach Gottfried goes to UCLA he should take Leslie with him, comments that neither Leslie or Brown should be welcome back on next year’s team and plenty of people that just want him to leave.

While he absolutely has his flaws and plenty of room for improvement, C.J. Leslie is the most physically gifted NC State player in the past 20 years, an All-ACC performer putting up 15 and 7 and everybody wants to throw him out on his ear. I find that kinda sad.

Personally I want him to stay. I can’t imagine his NBA draft status has risen after this season so I’m not sure he’s ready for the pros. And if you’re like me, you’ve loved seeing Richard Howell blossom in his senior season, getting the most out of his potential. I would love to see C.J. Leslie do the same in his senior season. It’s unknown if he would ever put it all together as a senior but I’d like to see him have the opportunity.

But if I’m C.J. Leslie, I go pro. I wouldn’t blame him one bit. Why deal with no respect from the fans and the officials here in Raleigh for free when you can go get paid in the NBA.

I don’t know how many people will agree with me, based on a lot of the previous comments I’m guessing not many although I’m hoping there’s a few that agree. And I might be way off on all this, I have no knowledge of any of the team’s internal issues, I only know what I’ve seen on the court. Like Dennis Miller always said: Of course, that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong.

About WV Wolf

Graduated from NCSU in 1996 with a degree in statistics. Born and inbred in West "By God" Virginia and now live in Raleigh where I spend my time watching the Wolfpack, the Mountaineers and the Carolina Hurricanes as well as making bar graphs for SFN. I'm @wvncsu on the Twitter machine.

12-13 Basketball

83 Responses to In Defense Of C.J. Leslie

  1. Khan 03/26/2013 at 11:35 AM #

    WV, I agree with most of what you said. One thing to point out, is there is a difference in pure athletic ability and being a top tier basketball player. Leslie is clearly in the upper echelon of athletic ability, but he is not a top tier basketball player, for whatever reason. Maybe it’s as you mentioned — he tried too hard. Maybe he doesn’t have a great basketball IQ. Maybe he doesn’t have the mental toughness he ought to have. Maybe he doesn’t have the maturity he needs. Maybe he’s just not a leader. Maybe none of those things are true.

    Whatever the case though, at the end of the day, he was not consistent throughout the year. And based on the level of athletic ability he possesses, it did not translate to the kind of consistent contributor you would expect from someone with his level of “physical ability and talent.”

    His entire career here has seen the same continuing problems that we saw this season. I don’t know the reason. But at some point, your star players learn to play like star players on a consistent basis. If they don’t, then I would argue that they might not have been star players to begin with.

    All that said, he has been a crucial memeber of a short-bench team and he has had some very bright moments. I think he tries. But if you compare the results from “effort” between he and Howell, I would say that Howell made the most out of his talent and effort and CJ did not. I don’t know why. But there are probably a lot of other ingredients that go into being the man than just physical gifts, and I believe that’s where CJ’s trouble lies.

    If he comes back, I hope he can develop a jump shot and learn to shoot free throws. I hope he can completely eliminate the need to goal tend (which, as you pointed out, has been reduced). I hope he can quickly recognize the double-team and find the open man, which I’ve seen some improvement in. I hope he can develop into a consistent defensive-minded player. And I hope he can avoid playing frustrated, because it’s hard to be successful playing frustrated.

    If he can improve in those areas, he can be a superstar at the college level and probably have a pro career. If he can’t, then he’ll continue the up and down play that has plagued his career, and he will likely not find much opportunity in the NBA.

    Whatever his decision is, I support him and I wish him the best.

  2. gumby 03/26/2013 at 11:41 AM #

    The only point in WV Wolf’s entry that I disagree with is the Dennis Miller quote. Dennis Miller is far too arrogant to admit he could be wrong.

  3. theghost 03/26/2013 at 11:54 AM #

    you make some interesting points – nice post.

    I understand the frustration of some folks with CJ’s game, and sometimes his attitude, but unless there’s a case of revolt or purposeful sabotage (see Monteith, Larry), I will always pull for and wish the best for all those who choose to wear the red uniform. Let’s reserve the derision, ridicule, and ill will for our true enemies.

  4. Pack Mentality 03/26/2013 at 11:54 AM #

    Both Hickson and Lorenzo Brown have been more physically gifted. Unless you’re talking about a wide open dunk.

    EDIT: To really be physically gifted in a basketball way I believe that you should be able to knock down short jump shots as opposed to always having to go in for the layup. If he actually were the most physically gifted in the past 20 years, wouldn’t that suck that he’s only the 3rd or 4th best player on this year’s team. Also, Courtney Fells was very physically gifted who just wasn’t that great of a basketball player. He doesn’t get the accolades for just being physicaly gifted.

  5. Pack1998 03/26/2013 at 12:00 PM #

    CJ is a stud – would love to see him play from the wing a little bit though. I think at the NBA level he has to be an inside / outside guy.

  6. triadwolf 03/26/2013 at 12:01 PM #

    Khan – Great post, and I think your thinking applies beyond just CJ.

    I don’t agree that most of CJ’s issues this season began when Zo went out. He was our team leader in TO’s before that happened. I hope he comes back, but I have concerns:

    One thing that really stands out to me is that CJ has basically not changed his body in 3 years. One of his biggest problems is lack of bulk and strength. He is not a good jump shooter and we all know about his foul shooting. This tells me that in the off-season he works hard on the things he likes to do, but doesn’t work hard on the things he needs to do, well, because it’s work; the other stuff is fun.

    He has been forcing things since he got here, well before Zo got hurt this season. I cannot remember one pass in his career out of a double/triple team to an open shooter. With someone like Wood on your team that can shoot lights out but has trouble creating his own shot, that’s inexcusable. I will say that his interior passing has improved this year, but wasn’t there for a lot of games.

    Like I said, I’ll welcome him back, but I have major concerns and think there needs to be a very focused and rigid off-season improvement plan and a few film sessions reinforcing basketball IQ or unselfishness – whichever is the problem. Maybe his drop in draft status will be the thing that gets him focused on the right things to truly improve.

  7. Pack85EE 03/26/2013 at 12:16 PM #

    Great post WV. But still so many negative comments from the gallery. I did not know NCSU graduated so many psychology and basketball experts. Give this 20 year old kid a break. Hopefully he will work on his weaknesses but I’m damn glad he played for us.

  8. rtpack24 03/26/2013 at 12:16 PM #

    I met CJ at one of our practices and was pleasantly surprised how nice he was. He walked up to me after the practice and introduced himself and thanked me for coming to their practice. During that practice he played and worked very hard. Now what he does at every practice I have no idea. The kid does care and I believe he loses his focus during games. I am pretty sure both he and Brown are gone. People need to keep in mind these guys are young and have a lot of pressure on them. Whatever Calvin does I wish him the best and will remember all the good things he did.

  9. Pack Mentality 03/26/2013 at 12:21 PM #

    Even though I would prefer him to go pro, I am not so adamantly opposed to him coming back. There could be worse things than having your 3rd or 4th best player return, as long as he understands that he may not be good enough to start next year depending on how well the new big men can shoot, rebound, and pass out of a triple team. If sitting the bench doesn’t ruin team chemistry, I’d love to have him back.

  10. jvbeat 03/26/2013 at 12:26 PM #

    WV, Your thoughtful and balanced commentary has brought me out of lengthy lurkdom. THANK YOU for this post. Now I can quit arguing with others and just direct them to this. And since it is my first comment, I feel compelled to thank all those who post here; SFN keeps me sane and crazy all at the same time. Go Pack!

  11. JustinRWright 03/26/2013 at 12:27 PM #

    Thanks for writing this… I think there should be an addition that CJ Leslie basically got fouled every time he made an offensive move and got the call about 30% of the time in ACC play. I definitely couldn’t blame the guy for getting T’d up a time or two but he should’ve used better judgement at FSU. I’m not going to take the time to watch every game back but it sure seemed like at least half of his “turnovers” or “bad shots” were the result of being body checked by slower defenders with no call. Leslie is a very good player with some flaws like every college player but fell into the whipping boy category for some reason.

    EDIT TO ADD: I think people are going to be surprised just how good Leslie is in the NBA when they will make that call with regularity. Kid’s spin move is lethal and his first step and ballhandling will get him by a lot of NBA PFs.

  12. DC_wolf 03/26/2013 at 12:33 PM #

    WV, a well done & well-deserved defense of Calvin who, lord knows, has taken his share of criticism (by none other than me, who declared he would often “disappear on some of the biggest stages”). I’m a big fan of Calvin / CJ & still remember how excited I was when he declared for the Pack – boy, did Sid need SOMETHING to go his way – I like watching him play & agree w/you he has as much, if not more, talent as any NCSU recruit the past couple decades.

    However, I tend to agree w/ Khan’s post up above – his 1 consistency is his inconsistency; if you don’t grow into a reliable force by your junior year (with LOTS of playing time) you probably won’t magically your Sr. season. You say you’d like to see Calvin bloom his senior year the way Howell did, but I see entirely 2 different approaches to the game: call it determination vs., I don’t know, inspiration? Rich always brought his lunchbox to work but Calvin often times brought a fuse looking for that spark. As for next year, you don’t often see a player come out & say he’s putting off the pros TWO years in a row…

  13. wolfbuff 03/26/2013 at 12:36 PM #

    This is a very good objective, albeit limited, view of CJ’s season. It did seem to turn at some point, and then spiraled. I can understand how that could happen – maybe for a game or two. And, from all accounts, he seems to be a genuinely nice guy. I don’t know him so will make no judgements about his character.

    It is disappointing that he didn’t take many, if any, steps forward with his game this year. Disappointing probably more for him than us fans combined. And there are certainly things said on this thread that are also true – that he didn’t seem to show any leadership, that he sulked, that he didn’t play defense, that he didn’t let the game come to him. Those things contributed to the length of the spiral, as much as trying/caring too much contributed to the spiral itself. I sincerely hope that he learns from these experiences and goes on to have a great career, whether or not that is in sports. I believe he will.

    The real problem I had this year with whoever the problems were on the team is with coaching. Forget the shallow bench. A coach has to stick with his principles and put in the players who will listen, who will provide leadership and drive the “team” to be a better “team.” In the short term this may translate to fewer wins. My gut tells me that somewhere Gott lost this team by not doing that, which has probably led to (and may lead to more) transfers. And even shallower benches. Somewhere, he has to break that cycle and regain control of the program.

  14. wufpup76 03/26/2013 at 12:37 PM #

    Good article, WV.

    Though some of the criticism of CJ is warranted, I’m repeatedly taken aback by the viciousness and quantity of criticism. … Some of that does go with being the “star”, but damn.

    Anyway, all the best for CJ no matter what.

  15. JT 03/26/2013 at 12:40 PM #

    Leslie simply suffers from having so much talent that anything short of brilliance brings criticism. His game lacks two things: a solid mid-range jumper and a Howell-like mental focus. The basketball IQ thing is nuts- he generally has a high one, except when he blows his top and gets a needless technical (ex. FSU).

    My perception is that Leslie is at his best when he lets the game come to him and gets in the flow. Without more go-to moves like a good jumper he simply shouldn’t force the action; he’s almost like a brilliant complementary player when he’s at his best.

    Personally, I’d love for him to come back. Lo as well. I think it would do both some good because they could drastically improve their draft positions with a few little tweaks- from late first to lottery picks.

  16. ringo 03/26/2013 at 12:42 PM #

    I imagine Gott wants anyone back that will buy into the team. Those who can’t will probably be invited to look at other options. Hopefully they will all come back and be all in.

    that should be next years motto, “all in”

  17. Wulfpack 03/26/2013 at 12:46 PM #

    I don’t claim to know why Leslie had a bad year, but his attitude stunk and it brought the team down. His performance at UNC this year was embarrassing. He needs a change of scenery and it will benefit the Pack. I just don’t think he gets it. Time to move on and wish him luck in the pros. He will need it.

  18. WV Wolf 03/26/2013 at 12:58 PM #

    Thanks for reading. I appreciate the discussion in the comments, lots of good points being made here.

  19. partialqualifier 03/26/2013 at 1:04 PM #

    Good Write. I agree 95%. Too many college fans here treat kids like they are 10 year NBA veterans. I thought Leslie improved with his decision making and at times was even a bit too unselfish. When you are a young man who is emotional and care about what people thnk, trying too hard is sometimes a problem.

    Where I would disagree is that Leslie was a horrible defensive player. No discipline or interest AT ALL on D. Yea, he would make the amazing block once in a while, but he was horrible on switchoffs or switchouts and put Howell in terrible position all season long. He was especially bad defensively when he had to guard anyone on the perimeter (see Temple film). In all honesty, he was one ofthe worst defensive players on a team that played no defense.

  20. Rick 03/26/2013 at 1:25 PM #

    Good article.
    My only concern is it appears CJ and some of the other players do not get along.

  21. Chucks Chesticles 03/26/2013 at 1:27 PM #

    I think the best outcome is for CJ to leave and Zo to return. Yes CJ has tons of talent and potential, but at some point you have to look at the best fit for the team. Seeing as how this year was not a growth year for him, why is there reason to believe next year will be??

  22. JohnGalt78 03/26/2013 at 1:30 PM #

    Lo is gone

  23. Gene 03/26/2013 at 1:47 PM #

    ” But I just don’t think he could stand being the 2nd or the 3rd option.”

    No superstar will settle to be the 2nd or 3rd option, unless they are at the end of their career.

    Anyway, the upside of Brown and Leslie is enormous.

    Given the lack of depth we’ll have next year, I don’t see the reason to not want Leslie or Brown back.

    We need them back to have the depth to really make any kind of run. Without them we’re back to 8 players on scholarship.

  24. WV Wolf 03/26/2013 at 1:52 PM #

    Rumors on the Twitters are that both Brown and Leslie are gone.

  25. Gene 03/26/2013 at 1:56 PM #

    On when Leslie’s season turned: They started calling him for traveling.

    He’d get the ball on the right block and spin baseline and take a bunny-hop and make the shot.

    His game changed after that. He couldn’t adjust to how a move he’d been using effectively for a season-and-a-half was no longer legal.

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