HS FBall Recruit: Butch Davis admits improper benefits to players in ‘agent-gate’? [Sunday update]

We’ve got ‘breaking news’ out of Virginia tonight where high school football player and UNC-CH commitment, Tim Scott, says that North Carolina Head Football Coach Butch Davis told him that the current NCAA investigation will not impact UNC’s future bowl eligibility…as well as a whole lot more.

Hat tip to WRAL: UNC recruit says Davis told him no loss of bowls

UNC’s most recent football recruit may have peeled the curtain back a bit regarding the Tar Heels’ trouble with the NCAA.

Upon committing to Carolina, cornerback Tim Scott tells the Fredericksburg (Va) Freelance Star that Butch Davis assured him the NCAA investigation will not affect UNC’s bowl eligibility.

“He said the players just have to pay back what they received,” Scott said. “They said it shouldn’t affect future recruits.”

The question now is whether Davis was merely offering his opinion, or if he was speaking from a position of knowledge — and there’s always the possibility of this amounting to a “recruiting promise.” But regardless, it’s an interesting quote from a recruit.

Like we did in this popular entry on Friday, let’s just approach some obvious questions this information generates:

First, does Butch Davis know for sure that UNC’s program is not going to be negatively impacted by the NCAA investigation?

If so, why can Coach Davis and UNC tell a 17 year old high school student things that they won’t share with the rest of the world?

Over the last two weeks Coach Davis and the entire athletics administration at UNC-CH have refused to speak to the press or answer any questions on the item until Davis’ previously scheduled appearance at the local Pigskin event on Thursday where he said basically nothing.

The University was even were caught in a half-truth (many call it a lie) on the issue when the News & Observer took the time to receive a statement from the NCAA that directly contradicted the lying position the University had been publicly spinning. In this entry we shared:

There are an increasing number of voices speaking with insight and intelligence about the subversive role and influence of agents, many from schools currently under investigation. None of them is coming from Chapel Hill. So far, Little’s father has said more about the probe than anyone at the university.

“I don’t know what Coach Spurrier and Coach Saban were told. … They may be under different circumstances, different directives, they may have had different people from the NCAA talking to them,” Kirschner said. “I don’t know. I do know what we were told, and I know what direction the NCAA gave us.”

In an e-mail, NCAA associate director for public and media relations Stacey Osburn wrote, “The NCAA does not prohibit the schools under investigation to comment to the media, however, they are advised not to make any public comment that could hamper the investigation.”

Anyone notice the difference in Kirschner’s explanation of UNC’s silence and the actual email from the NCAA’s Stacey Osburn? Kirschner says they aren’t talking per the request of the NCAA, yet the NCAA told Decock that anyone can talk as long as they don’t hamper the investigation.

Is Kirschner confused? Or is he purposely being dishonest? It may be in the best interests of UNC to have remained silent, so why not just state that it is UNC’s policy not to discuss these matters until they reach some sort of resolution?

Easily the most important news and questions that evolve from Scott’s comments would be that if Davis said, ‘the players just have to pay back what they received’ then the UNC-CH coach would appear to be admitting that (1) multiple players (2) received improper and illegal benefits.

WOW!! Multiple players receiving major illegal payments and benefits from sports agents! and, no major penalties to follow? only pay back the money?

This obviously opens up quite a pandora’s box of questions from any NC State University supporter older than (approximately) 35 years old.

In the late 1980s, it was supposedly proven that NC State had a few basketball players ‘illegally’ generate income that probably totaled a few thousand dollars from selling some of their sneakers and free tickets to basketball games. For this ‘major violation’ the University lost its exceptionally popular basketball coach, Athletics Director and Chancellor on our way to NCAA probation despite an unprecedented letter written voluntarily by the head of the NCAA’s investigation exonerating and praising Head Basketball Coach, Jim Valvano.

Yet now…the University of North Carolina could have multiple players accept major gifts and cash from illicit sources that could total over a hundred thousand dollars and the only penalties and discipline will be that the money will get paid back. And, please note that the only money that will get paid back is the money that can be been proven. Imagine how much is out there that will never be proven?

Makes total sense to me. Unfortunately.

One last quick question — if these kids didn’t initially have the money needed to take these trips and buy these gifts…then, how in the world are they going to simply ‘pay it back’? Seriously. If they didn’t have the money to begin with, where are they going to get it now to ‘pay it back’? Maybe some of those nice, supportive UNC-CH alums can find a way to step up and help like they apparently did for Wayne Ellington while he was helping Carolina win ACC and National Basketball Championships.

2:20pm Sunday afternoon
Imagine this…we’ve got yet another flip-flop in a story related to the UNC-CH’s agentgate?!

The N&O has a follow-up on this story that you can read here.

Tim Scott, a cornerback from Stafford, Va., said he was told by assistant coach Charlie Williams that UNC’s bowl status would not be affected by the NCAA investigation.

Scott, reached by phone on Sunday afternoon, said Williams also talked to him about the punishment for the players involved in the NCAA investigation. He clarified a Virginia newspaper report from Saturday that attributed the quotes to head coach Butch Davis.

“Coach Williams said the players involved would have to pay back what they received and it wouldn’t be an issue for future recruits,” Scott said. “I didn’t talk to coach Davis about the NCAA investigation.”
Williams is UNC’s receivers coach in his fourth season. He previously coached with Davis at Miami and also in the NFL.

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31 Responses to HS FBall Recruit: Butch Davis admits improper benefits to players in ‘agent-gate’? [Sunday update]

  1. tuckerdorm1983 07/24/2010 at 11:21 PM #

    here we go

  2. The Captain 07/24/2010 at 11:59 PM #

    Guys – there is another article (on Fredericksburg.com written by ADAM HIMMELSBACH) linked below that says UNC is using a video of Lawrence Taylor to recruit players. I’ll be the first to say that LT is probably being framed on the rape charges (which should be reduced to solicitation of prostitution) but why would a University as academically superior as UNC use a player who didn’t graduate to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes? Can’t wait for the pointy head professors at UNC to get a hold of this one.

    Link to entire article

    Scott received a scholarship offer from North Carolina on March 13. Five days later, he visited the Chapel Hill campus, inviting his grandmother, Joanne, to join him and his mother. The family’s hotel room was filled with Tar Heels paraphernalia….

    Scott later watched a team highlight video at the football facility that included clips of Hall of Fame linebacker Lawrence Taylor, a former Tar Heel, persuading recruits to join the program. Three months after Scott’s visit, Taylor was arrested and charged with raping a 16-year-old girl.

    As Scott toured the facility, a coach pointed out the team trophy case, but Scott did not notice the trophies. “In the case they had all the things the players get at their bowl games,” he said. “The iPods, the sneakers, clothes, posters and stuff. I didn’t know they got any of that.”..

    Scott said that on Monday, Tar Heels coach Butch Davis assured him this probe would not affect North Carolina’s future bowl eligibility.”He said the players just have to pay back what they received,” Scott said. “They said it shouldn’t affect future recruits.”

    In the future, provide a link and short quotes; not the entire article. Copying and pasting an entire article most likely violates the copyrights of the original article.

  3. tjfoose1 07/25/2010 at 12:43 AM #

    Another major issue, I think, that you did not mention is that Davis is purporting to know the results of a still ongoing investigation into his own program.

    He either does not know and is lying (or purposely misleading the recruit,at best), or he does know, which in my opinion, is the more serious violation as far as NCAA rules are concerned.

    That is, unless it is somehow ok for the coach of an investigated program to be informed of the results and consequences of said investigation while it is still ongoing.

    So, I guess if true, this is evidence that ‘the fix is in’.

    Either way, this does not reflect well as to the quality of the character of Butch Davis. No matter what the truth is, he’s either a proven liar or a proven cheater, or both.

  4. Wufpacker 07/25/2010 at 12:52 AM #

    Don’t know how true this will ultimately turn out to be, but it is pretty much what I’ve been expecting so I won’t be shocked.

    How will they pay it back? Are you serious? Whomever was responsible for the “loans”, as I’m sure they’ll soon be called, will be more than happy to report them as having been repaid for some sort of future consideration. Perhaps right of first refusal for professional representation?

    One hand washes the other. The wheels on the bus go round and round. Same shit different day (era).

  5. wufpup76 07/25/2010 at 2:55 AM #

    Go ahead and cue up the “You’re taking a KID’S words out of context!” defense … Or even the “You’re basing this on what a KID is saying!?” defense.

    Bah …

    I’m glad we’re not letting this just die and go away like so many would prefer happen.

  6. travelwolf 07/25/2010 at 4:15 AM #

    Just stop getting my hopes up. It’s like in the 1920’s when the gangsters owned the cops in Chicago – Carolina will never get prosecuted for anything like this – it was someone else’s fault. Don’t you know that they own the media and the NCAA enforcement practically? Why do you think that you have to make all this noise to finally get one article in the N&O.

    I hope I’m wrong.

  7. JeremyH 07/25/2010 at 4:48 AM #

    he is just reassuring the kid, he can’t know.

    when this done, I would be interested in a comparison of the violations and punishment with similar instances involving other schools.

  8. Pack78 07/25/2010 at 8:08 AM #

    This is incredible-Kirschner says (lies) that unx has been told to maintain silence on the investigation, and the NCAA says that anything that IS said cannot hinder the investigation, but that unx (or anyone else) is under no gag order. Then, Butchie is stating things to a recruit that implies the coming penalties are already known? If this was true, then those investigated would be wise to clam up-`hindering the investigation’. BD and Kirscner are lying a$$holes.

  9. The Dire Wolf 07/25/2010 at 10:09 AM #

    My guess is if anyone gets in trouble it will be Austin and only Austin. I wouldn’t be surprised is he doesn’t even get suspended for the whole season, maybe 3 or 4 games. Some people (teams) just always seem to land on their feet, unc is one of those teams.

  10. The Captain 07/25/2010 at 10:38 AM #

    I disagree with Pack78 as I believe UNC is being cautious and should not comment. The investigation started there which theoretically should make it worse there; thus, it’s best for UNC to stay silent as opposed to other schools who are sort of innocent bystanders.

    Here is the scenario I believe – Marvin Austin was the ringleader of the South Beach parties (instead of Mike Paulus) and the NCAA is not going to spare mercy on UNC. And, contrary to what’s been reported, I believe Marvin was posting about a South Beach trip LAST summer. I printed the tweets in January after he started tweeting about agents calling him in December and showed it to friends who were UNC graduates. Of course, the response I received was “Twitter is a bad fad and we’re ignoring it.” I bet they don’t believe that now……….

  11. MrWolf 07/25/2010 at 10:46 AM #

    From SFN: Lets be honest with ourselves…your post didn’t make any sense how one situation was different than the other.

    Additionally, that was your first post and we have no way to validate your claims as you don’t have a track record of building credibility here.

    Additionally, we have a long standing policy of not taking too kindly to suggestions of how we run our blog. Thanks

  12. packfan03 07/25/2010 at 11:15 AM #


    I think the point of several of these entries is to illustrate that Mr. Davis does know what is going on. Are you also suggesting that North Carolina was unaware of the allegations that seemingly follow the “illustrious” John Blake wherever he goes?

  13. Wufpacker 07/25/2010 at 11:16 AM #

    “Can we now reclaim SFN to be a website about STATE athletics instead of being about UNC athletics?”

    I’ve been wondering how long it would take for someone to make that statement. I’m encouraged…it was actually quite a bit longer than I expected.

    My guess is the mods will be more than happy to do that when they no longer have to do the jobs of the (alleged) journalists working at the (alleged) statewide news agencies which are located in the state of North Carolina.

    Maybe when those “news agencies” begin to cover ALL angles of ALL stories equally then sites like this won’t have to do their jobs for them.

  14. Pack78 07/25/2010 at 11:23 AM #

    The following from the Durham paper lends creedence to the idea that unx could not reasonably claim ignorance of their FB players social media activities, Kirschner or Davis:


  15. tobaccordshow 07/25/2010 at 11:32 AM #

    From the Herald article:

    “Kirschner said the players are responsible for what they put on social media sites just as they are responsible for what they say in a news conference. He said coaches, administrators and sports information directors are constantly talking with athletes about Twitter and Facebook, and freshmen receive a presentation when they get on campus. Kirschner said each sport is responsible for monitoring their players’ social media accounts.

    “I don’t think that we would want to ban kids from using Twitter and Facebook,” Kirschner said. “I think those sites are extremely popular, extremely common, and I think for the most part, by and large, I think the people that are on them are using them responsibly.””

    Ding ding ding! How can that statement be spun towards any thing but “lack of institutional control?”

    They cannot claim ignorance when it is policy to monitor these things.

  16. Wufpacker 07/25/2010 at 11:50 AM #

    “They cannot COMPETENTLY claim ignorance when it is policy to monitor these things, BUT EVEN THE MOST LAME AND UNBELIEVABLE DENIAL WILL BE ENOUGH FOR THE POWERS THAT BE”


    UNC: We have the most up to date policies on educating our student athletes about these things and what they can and cannot do under current NCAA rules.

    NCAA: Do you monitor their activities?

    UNC: Well, of course we try. But we can’t know everything everyone is doing every second of the day.

    NCAA: But if you hear rumors of improper contact, you could talk to that player, yes?

    UNC: Well, I suppose so, but we want to let our kids feel they can express themselves. And who’s to say what is real and what is just them talking big to impress their friends?

    NCAA: Yes, I can see your point. And your policies, as written, are top notch, top notch. NO VIOLATIONS. How ’bout a Fresca?

  17. tuckerdorm1983 07/25/2010 at 12:34 PM #

    BUTCH: Its all a much ado about nothing

    NCAA: Seems reasonable

    BUTCH: Yep, I told them not to do it. What more can I do?

    NCAA: Your so right. Would you like a Fresca

    BUTCH: Nah I like Fanta, you got an Orange

    NCAA: Sure and a cupcake to go with it.

    BUTCH: No cupcake, I like cheesecake. I know the best place in D.C. to get the stuff and I know some folks that will hook you up for free there.

    NCAA: No kidding

    BUTCH: Just tell them Butch sent you

  18. coach13 07/25/2010 at 2:10 PM #

    If paying back without suspensions is the only penalty out of this and I was a player or agent, I’d take it as a surrender from the NCAA to proceed with the status quo. My God, agents can tell players now “oh don’t worry, if you get caught we’ll just help you pay it back”wink wink nod nod.

    What a disaster if everyone walks away unscathed.

  19. wbnation 07/25/2010 at 3:10 PM #

    can some one please give me an instance when a player was caught being given money and gifts from an agent and all he had to do was pay it back….and there were no other penalties???

    That just seems ludicrous from the start. I can’t think of a player who hasn’t been suspended for taking gifts. We keep bantering around this stuff as though its fact. If the NCAA finds out that said players took gifts they aren’t just going to say oh just pay it back and all is well. If that was the case then why didn’t Reggie just fix the whole mess by just paying everything back..hell if it was that easy then he could have saved the school, his reputation, and his heisman.

    The way I see it is if you take money or gifts from an agent, then you are ineligable to compete as an amateur athlete plain and simple.

  20. tuckerdorm1983 07/25/2010 at 3:21 PM #

    Maybe the tooth fairy gave marvin the money. That would explain all this mess. Butch could try that angle

  21. JeremyH 07/25/2010 at 3:52 PM #

    are the violations any less severe than those of USC’s football program?

    claiming ignorance is not a valid defense in our legal system, it certainly should not be here.

    coach13, if that happens, I don’t think wolfpack fans will be the only folks “up in arms” about this.

  22. Wufpacker 07/25/2010 at 4:23 PM #

    ^ You’re assuming other folks besides NCSU, Duke, and maybe Wake fans, will even notice.

    “The way I see it is if you take money or gifts from an agent, then you are ineligable to compete as an amateur athlete plain and simple.”

    I could not agree more. That’s the reason, at least one of them, why this whole mess is going to be so interesting to watch. It SEEMS that the players involved are indefensible and that the “evidence” (quotes for effect….despite what we believe we really don’t KNOW what the evidence is yet) is incontrovertible. Will the school throw the players under the bus to save themselves in the long term? Will they try every effort to minimize punishment for players to try and keep a higher success level in the short term, thus possibly opening themselves up to even more severe violations and sanctions?

    I sure as shit don’t know, but I am interested. If the media would get off their knees (praying AND hiding, I’m sure) there might be more people that would also take an interest.

    And for me it isn’t even just because it’s UNC anymore. It’s truly interesting as a purely academic look at human behavior. But I’d be lying if I said UNC being involved doesn’t make it sweeter, LOL.

  23. Wufpacker 07/25/2010 at 4:39 PM #

    ^ You’re assuming anyone else cares. Or maybe said more precisely, cares enough to watch closely, compare what appears to be obvious with what eventually is purported as fact, and make conclusions, whatever they may be.

    Short attention spans and all; I doubt anyone other than us will notice if something looks fishy.

  24. TomPack 07/25/2010 at 5:51 PM #

    Does all of this coming from Butch Davis sound a heck of a lot like what Lane Kiffen was saying to recruits during the investigation into So Cal. He was telling everyone he could that he KNEW FOR SURE that there were not going to be any major penalties against the school and look how that turned out. Will Carolina slide by with a slight slap on the wrist? Possible…but the So Cal penalties show that it is possible for a big money maker for the NCAA to get hammered.

  25. JeremyH 07/25/2010 at 8:41 PM #

    ^^well, beyond keeping the administration in check (Fowler would still be AD if not for SFN), it appears that being a media source that demands for accountability *in general* (well at least in the ACC) seems to be a worthy task for SFN. Maybe Valvano would not have been fired had there been a SFN then? Question for the more experienced folks: Did the good ol’ boy network of NC State Univ use the NCAA violations to seize control in a fashion similar to GW using the war to seize control? (Control being money and power.)

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