Fowler, Sendek, Amato and the GSR (Updated @ 1:15pm)

NC State is currently tied for the worst record in the Atlantic Coast Conference football season as the program heads towards its longest consecutive streak of non-winning seasons since the 1950s.

The Wolfpack has been picked to finish 12th out of 12 teams from almost every imaginable source for the upcoming basketball season continuing a twenty year period that has seen the Pack program earn an ACC Tournament seed better than fourth a single time.

SFN has consistently highlighted statistics that paint the Wolfpack’s overall athletics program at the very bottom of the Atlantic Coast Conference, and most recently blogged this set of statistics that indicate the Wolfpack has one of the worst departments in the entire country amongst our peer group of other BCS programs.

Continuing on that theme, the NCAA’s Graduation Success Rate numbers are being released and NC State finished last overall in the ACC by this measure as well.

For the four academic years beginning in 1999 and running through 2002, Duke graduated 97 percent of student-athletes.

During that time, the University of North Carolina was fourth in the ACC with a Graduation Success Rate of 87 percent and North Carolina State University came in 12th at 69 percent. State had a GSR of only 45 percent of basketball players and 57 percent of football players.

Those numbers place us 9th in basketball and 11th in football in the ACC.

What is GSR?

Division I Graduation Success Rate / Division II Academic Success Rate

The NCAA Graduation Success Rate (GSR) and the Academic Success Rate (ASR) were developed in response to college and university presidents who wanted graduation data that more accurately reflect the mobility among college students today. Both rates improve on the federally mandated graduation rate by including students who were omitted from the federal calculation.

The GSR measures graduation rates at Division I institutions and includes students transferring into the institutions. The GSR also allows institutions to subtract student-athletes who leave their institutions prior to graduation as long as they would have been academically eligible to compete had they remained.

These numbers were for the four academic years beginning in 1999 and ending in 2002. For a point of reference, NC State AD Lee Fowler’s first year at NC State was 2000. These student-athletes would have been graduating between 2005 and 2008, so this represents the most accurate and relevant data available. Additionally, this would have given Lee Fowler five whole years to revamp the academic program if he saw any problems when he was first hired.

The numbers for basketball represent players recruited, coached, and mentored by former Coach Herb Sendek who was thought by most everyone (especially his friends in the media) to do an outstanding job of prioritizing academics and graduating players. In football, these numbers are from classes recruited by Mike O’Cain and Chuck Amato with Amato directing the program in most of the years these student-athletes spent in Raleigh. In the end, Chuck Amato actually graduated players at a higher rate than Sendek during these years which is completely unexpected based on the perceptions and reputations of the two coaches.

When looking at the old federally mandated rates (counts kids that leave the program, but not kids that transfer in), Sendek’s numbers look even worse. Sendek’s numbers of 45% GSR drop all the way to 25%. So only 25% of players recruited by Herb Sendek during these years actually graduated from NC State. The NCAA averages for basketball were a 64% GSR and a 48% Fed Rate.

For Amato and the football program, the drop in the Fed Rate wasn’t nearly as significant (57% GSR vs. 49% Fed Rate). Also, the numbers for football were much closer to the NCAA averages of a 67% GSR and 54% Fed Rate. So if you were recruited by Chuck Amato and arrived on campus, then you were almost twice as likely to receive your degree from NC State than if you were recruited by Herb Sendek.

Despite these numbers, Herb Sendek is one of 7 coaches that sits on the Basketball Academic Enhancement Group that was formed to “develop strategies to enhance academic performance and graduation rates.”

Unbelievable.

Of course, nobody in the media who continues to write about NC State’s former basketball coach will pay any attention to these numbers.

AD Lee Fowler was quoted today in the Raleigh News and Observer:

Leger said N.C. State already has data showing that graduation rates moving forward are going to improve significantly. N.C. State athletic director Lee Fowler said that men’s basketball players transferring out of the program almost seven years ago had a big effect on the graduation rate released Wednesday.

First of all, nobody is blaming Sidney Lowe for these numbers. These numbers reflect directly on LEE FOWLER’S PERFORMANCE. How in the world does he live so far from reality that he doesn’t remotely recognize that this is about HIM?!

SFN Comments
Lee Fowler sleeping_napping_LFI apologize for confusion here as I am a little unclear on some things. As we previously quoted, “The GSR also allows institutions to subtract student-athletes who leave their institutions prior to graduation as long as they would have been academically eligible to compete had they remained.”

But, “N.C. State athletic director Lee Fowler said that men’s basketball players transferring out of the program almost seven years ago had a big effect on the graduation rate released Wednesday.”

For Lee Fowler’s explanation to be accurate, the only way that transferring could have a negative impact on our GSR is that the transferees left in bad academic standing and would have been ineligible to compete if they stayed at NC State. So – if his comments are accurate – apparently a lot of the kids that transferred were not academically eligible which also is NOT a good sign for our academic support system and Fowler’s department.

The only other potential explanation for Fowler’s response is that he doesn’t know or understand the math of how the GSR is calculated. In that case, someone at NC State should probably inform “Coach Fowler” that the GSR was created due to complaints by coaches and athletic directors that counting transfers was unfair — so transfers are NOT counted in the GSR as long as they leave in good academic standing.

Either of these explanations are a tremendous embarrassment to North Carolina State University. But…then again…we’ve gotten pretty accustomed to embarrassments, haven’t we?

Obviously the University is not embarrassed enough since Lee Fowler continues to keep his job en route to finishing his 10th year ‘leading’ the NC State Athletics Department as one of the highest paid employees at NC State and holding his Chancellor’s Award for Excellence

As most average NC State alums often say…“ONLY AT NC STATE”. Now, shut up, pull out your checkbook, and keep giving.

ACC AD & Department Chuck Amato Editor's Picks General NC State Administration NCS Basketball NCS Football Non-Revenue

42 Responses to Fowler, Sendek, Amato and the GSR (Updated @ 1:15pm)

  1. choppack1 11/19/2009 at 2:07 PM #

    two thoughts here:
    #1. Fowler’s thoughts/quotes here once again indicate that this man is nothing, if not consistent in his ability to miss greater points and has absolute failure to serve as an asset to this school. Every day he keeps his job is either an indictment of the PTB at this university or can only be justified if in fact he knows something so utterly scandalous that this university would be given a death penality or extenisive probation to either football or men’s basketball.

    #2. As PM 97 notes – we should probably figure out where NC State ranks in terms of actual student body graduation rates to the rest of the ACC schools. The football graduation rate, for example, isn’t necessarily horrendous on its face. Now, if NC STate is in the top half of this ranking or firmly entrenched in the middle – it’s certainly an indictment of our athletic department and 2 key programs.

  2. jondehart 11/19/2009 at 3:07 PM #

    How do these ratios compare to the student body as whole ? NC State’s overall grad rates are usually lower than the student athlete ratio .

  3. LRM 11/19/2009 at 3:11 PM #

    “Wolfpack sports: taking the S out of GSR.”

    61, it sounds like we’re taking the G out of it, too!

  4. foz 11/19/2009 at 3:57 PM #

    Not specifically on topic, and I mentioned this on the forums earlier, but Taylor Zarzour on 96 Rock really ripped LF this morning concerning this graduation stat and the poor winning percentage of Wolfpack sports in general. He literally (and adamantly) asked why LF still had a job – echoing much of the sentiment proliferated by SFN. So my question, could this be the beginning of the press actually catching on and admitting what is really happening (or not) at NCSU?

    edit: In case you didn’t hear it, it was mearly a commentary, not an interview.

  5. GoldenChain 11/19/2009 at 4:03 PM #

    Guys, guys, guys.
    You are totally missing the point.
    Jed has achieved one thing that he deserves a big Xmas bonus for: CONSISTENCY!!!!!!!

    If you can’t compete at the top, you can certainly scrum at the bottom!

  6. StateFans 11/19/2009 at 4:20 PM #

    foz,

    Fowler must not go on Zarzour’s show nearly as much as he goes on Ovies & Gold’s show as those guys would never allow silly things like objective assessments and integrity to what is right get in the way of their personal relationship, and therefore their access to Uncle Jed.

  7. TheCOWDOG 11/19/2009 at 4:39 PM #

    Packpowerfan: ” Cowdog, do you have any thoughts on the comparison of student-athletes in the typical “rocks for jocks” academic path to more difficult majors? ”

    Interesting question. On one hand, I knew quite a few really intelligent engineering student athletes. However, it’s nearly impossible for the greater number of jocks to even entertain course studies as Vet School, Pre-Med and, let’s say, Physical Therapy. Any course work requiring extensive labs are darn near out of the equation.

    I was planning on P.T. myself early in the recruiting process.
    That ended promptly at Carolina when I was told that no football player had ever completed the coursework. Never. They wouldn’t even entertain the idea. Even lil’ ole Ithaca College shook heads. Ha! And I was gonna play 2 sports?

    Clearly, there are majors that are anti college athlete and next to impossible to garner an undergrad degree in 5 to 6 yrs.

  8. MrPerfectionest 11/19/2009 at 10:16 PM #

    ROFL, we’re even being told “wait until next year” regarding something only tangentially related to the performance on the sports field.

    Hilarious.

    I’m witholding my $300 commitment for season tickets and LTRs and will continue to do so until the performance on the field turns around. They can lock me out of the season tickets, I’ll just by them cheaper at the gate so long as the performance on the field is dreadful.

  9. Gene 11/19/2009 at 10:40 PM #

    “Comparisons like this should also look at the schools graduation rate. Let’s face it, NC State has never really focused on graduating everyone. Duke and UNC-CH pretty much guarantee that you can get a degree, getting accepted is the hard part.”

    PackMan97, I think that’s one reason Duke and UNC have better graduation rates: there admissions standards are higher.

    As a land grant college, we are not about toughening up our undergraduate admission requirements to the level of UNC, but our academics are just as challenging.

    So you end up with worse students coming out of high school entering just a difficult academic setting. The end result is a higher number of wash outs.

    I wouldn’t say NCSU is just letting anyone in to make a buck or focuses less on graduating people than UNC-Ch. As a land grant college our mission isn’t to be as exclusive and elite as we can possibly be, so we do give people, who would not have gotten into the elitist most exclusive schools a chance. It’s just a bigger problem than the university that not everyone is ready at 18 to take advantage of it.

  10. Spooler89 11/19/2009 at 11:07 PM #

    I am neither a Fowler fan or detractor, but who would take this AD job that would meet the approval of posters here?

  11. papackman 11/20/2009 at 8:09 AM #

    I forwarded the statistics from post – “Monday morning in Wolfpackerville or NC State is 8-35-2 in all fall sports” using the mail address [email protected] and I asked “ Don’t you find the following statistics disturbing” I received a reply two days later stating “Yes, I do find this disturbing !!” I didn’t expect a reply at all. No big deal.

    I’m not saying the chancellor personally answered this email. My point is that somebody read and answered the email. This could be an avenue to keep the discontent of the Wolfpack nation under the nose of the chancellor. Kind of like a protest outside the chancellor office, only coming from his inbox. If the mails are kept professional and constructive, it may make a difference, or this may be wishful thinking.

  12. wolfonthehill 11/20/2009 at 9:25 AM #

    For the record, I started sucking at “giving money” almost exactly one year ago… and will continue sucking at it for the foreseeable future.

  13. wolfonthehill 11/20/2009 at 11:32 AM #

    “I am neither a Fowler fan or detractor, but who would take this AD job that would meet the approval of posters here?”

    The other 11 AD’s within our own conference would ALL be a step up, based on the on-field and classroom performance that we’ve got going.

    Except for them, no one.

  14. PackMan97 11/20/2009 at 11:37 AM #

    *** “PackMan97, I think that’s one reason Duke and UNC have better graduation rates: there admissions standards are higher.” ***

    I don’t doubt they are higher at UNC-CH and Duke for the general population. I certainly know that state is far less selective (perhaps due to a smaller applicant pool?).

    However, I’m sure admissions for football and basketball players are very similar between the three schools. Yet, both Duke and UNC-CH graduate football and basketball players at a rate fairly close to their overall graduation rate. This just smells fishy to me.

    Personally, I’d be worried if at schools like Duke and Carolina their athletes actually graduate at a HIGHER rate than their student body in general especially given the time demands and high school transcripts far below the typical attendee.

  15. bradleyb123 11/20/2009 at 12:03 PM #

    ^^^ “I am neither a Fowler fan or detractor, but who would take this AD job that would meet the approval of posters here?”

    Anybody. Just about anybody.

  16. PackMan97 11/20/2009 at 12:48 PM #

    Ron Wellman would meet with my approval, but I doubt he’d take the job 🙁

  17. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 11/20/2009 at 7:55 PM #

    Please, if I hear anymore about gods-forsaken graduation rates. UNC is a liberal arts school with many ‘athlete-friendly’ majors. Who knows what Duke and Wake do to graduate players these are private schools so it doesn’t really matter and it is none of anyone’s business what they do, except maybe the NCAA and ACC.

    NC State has a problem because the largest colleges at State require brilliant people. How many atheletes are looking to go into Bio-Chem, Nuclear Engineering or maybe one of those easy BS degrees in the College of Physical and Math Sciences, Textiles, Design or Vet Med?

    Not to mention a huge divide between adminstration, faculty versus those in athletics.

    OH and could someone at NC Stae give Mr. Corn that has been to 400 consecutive games a seat in the damned Vaughn Towers. This man is still climbing stairs to the top level and down to take a piss.

    Chancellor Woodward please give Mr. Corn a lifetime pass to you private box.

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