2008 NC State Football Review

 

Much like our previous breakdown of the entire Atlantic Coast Conference, today we’ll take a look at the 2008 Wolfpack with a focus on trends and issues that are likely to carry over to the 2009 version. I actually starting planning this article during the 2007 season, when I was rudely awakened to just how badly State’s talent had dropped off towards the end of Amato’s tenure. At that time I documented State’s roster by class and the Scout.com ranking from high school. Any rational review of those tables would come to the conclusion that TOB and staff had walked into a nearly total rebuild job.

Luckily, Russell Wilson almost single-handedly turned what could have been a truly disastrous season into a bowl appearance. While it’s unlikely that 2008 will be one of those seasons that people like to wax philosophical about during their rocking chair years, at least it wasn’t the complete disaster that I was prepared for.

For those that don’t like my tables, here’s an executive summary of the 2008 football season:

1) Russell Wilson emerged from no where to lead the Pack to the Pizza Bowl with wins over UNC and ECU along the way. A lightly recruited, two-sport QB quickly showed that those people that hand out “stars” on recruiting sites don’t always find all of the players that you really want on your team. Even though Russell missed several games due to injuries, he was selected as the first-team All-ACC QB….a first for a freshman QB. Anyone that doubts what Russell meant to the Pack only needs to re-watch the second-half of the Pizza Bowl to see what State’s season would have been like without him.

2) Injuries riddled the Pack starting with a spring injury to Donald Bowens and running throughout the season. As one would expect after looking over the 2007 roster, State lacked quality depth to adequately cover for injured starters. At one time during the season, State had seven walk-ons (or former walk-ons) on the two-deep roster.

3) Outside a few disgruntled BC fans, Tom O’Brien and his staff are widely regarded for getting the most out of his players. Their first two years in Raleigh has done nothing but reinforce that image for me. TOB and staff probably won’t get the recognition they deserve from the national media….but I can’t imagine that there are any State fans that aren’t excited about what the future holds for NC State football.

Now for some tables…….

OFFENSE (or the GOOD NEWS)

In looking around the internets this summer, I found a link to a new (to me) site that I want to point everyone’s attention to:

College Football Statistics

While I really like the NCAA’s web site for stats, cfbstats.com offers the option to look at the records considering only the conference games (and many other selections). This option is really useful for two important reasons:

– Looking at only conference games will tend to give a better view of the conference since the quality of OOC games vary so widely.

– As seen during the Pizza Bowl, State was a completely different team when Russell Wilson was hurt…..which coincidentally occurred during the OOC games. Thus the conference standings will show how State matched up when Russell was playing.

Side note: I frequently ridicule people who draw conclusions based on ignoring games where key players were injured. However, our purpose here is not strictly a look at 2008….we are laying the groundwork for looking ahead to the upcoming season. The backup QBs from 2008 are gone so the games that they played in provides us no useful information when we are “evaluating” next season.

Here is a look at the 2008 ACC season looking at only the conference games (and the ACC CG):

acc-fb-offenses1

Random Observations

– Remember the 24 point ceiling from past seasons?

– After rushing for a measly 67 yards against William and Mary (freaking W&M !!!!!), who would have thought that State would do so well rushing against ACC teams.

– When we flip back to the national rankings, we see that State’s offense still has a long way to go to approach national significance, but I like seeing an offense with relatively balanced results. I consider continuing this type of production one of the keys for the upcoming season (more on this later).

As I went back and reviewed the entire article, I was struck with the feeling that I am not giving Wilson (and the offensive coaches) enough credit for last year’s results. However, most of what needs to be said, has already been documented by anyone with a pulse that watched the Pack last year. Let me just say again that the offense, and especially Wilson, turned what would have been an absolutely horrible year into a bowl appearance. While there is still much room for improvement, I am confident that the offense is headed in the right direction.

DEFENSE (or the BAD NEWS)

I pointed out the troubling trend of defensive decline before the season started last year. Unfortunately, the defensive slide continued in 2008:

declining-defense

Going back to cfbstats.com, we can pull out the numbers generated during conference games. But unfortunately, the picture doesn’t improve much:

acc-fb-defenses

In various pre-season summaries, I have read the statement that State’s defense improved “down the stretch”. In general, I hate this type of comparison because there is no effort made to separate “improvement” by State’s defense from scheduling quirks that might (and did) put weaker teams at the end of the year.

So I decided to take a look at how State’s defense did chronologically through the conference schedule. I compared each opponents “average” offensive production versus ACC teams against how that particular opponent did against State. Even though that last sentence has been reworded several teams, it still reads like mumbo-jumbo…so let’s try and illustrate what I am talking about.

Going back to the first table let’s compare the average Clemson offense (taken only from games against ACC teams) to what Clemson’s offense did against State:

vs-clemson

So from this table we can see that State’s defense would be “below average” when compared to the other ACC teams that Clemson played. So here is the same analysis applied to State’s conference schedule:

state-defense-vs-ave-offense

For me, the bottom line seems pretty obvious. State’s run defense did “settle down” and play pretty well, but the pass defense pretty much sucked all year….almost as much as the 2003 version.

If you watched any of the games last year, there were many times where the DBs lined up way off the line of scrimmage on obvious passing plays….even those of relatively short yardage. This observation was discussed in several game-day threads here and there are only two logical explanations that I can think of:

1) The State coaching staff has decided to institute an absolutely horrible defensive scheme versus the pass. OR

2) State’s coaches based their defensive schemes on the abilities (or lack thereof) of the secondary AND the ability to get pressure on the QB.

Regardless of the exact reason(s), there is clearly a ton of improvement required in the State defense.

WHY NOT US?

As we transition from a review of the 2008 season into a preview of the 2009 season, let me take a few minutes and shoot this particular “fish in a barrel”. I would not call it an “internet consensus”, but I have seen this statement posted several times in discussing the race for this year’s divisional title. Skipping over the stupidity of arguing from an admitted state of ignorance; let me summarize my reasons for not picking State to win the Atlantic this year:

1) DEFENSE…..see discussion above

2) DEPTH. A team that had seven walk-ons (or former walk-ons) on the two-deep roster during the 2008 season simply does not have the required depth to get through the “normal” injuries that usually show up over the course of a season.

3) NATE IRVING. If Nate is indeed lost for the 2009 season; it is difficult to describe just how devastating his loss is to the Pack. Nate led the Pack in interceptions and was second on the team in tackles for loss. From the first quarter of the SC game, it was obvious that he was one of those rare players that can be counted on to make spectacular plays each and every week.

Having Nate Irving playing gives State the same sort of odds that a puncher has in a boxing match. They might not win on points….but they might land the knock-out punch that ends the match. State definitely needs as many “punchers” as it can find on defense.

Frankly, State does not have many people playing on defense that have any chance of playing on Sunday when their college careers are over. Nate is one of those players and State simply doesn’t have anyone that can make up for him (if he is lost for the year). Even if the replacement plays well enough to make up for Nate, then it is likely that he would have ended up starting along side Nate if Nate were healthy…not backing him up.

ROSTER TRENDING

As I was reading one of the media previews (linked below), I noticed something strange about the classes on their version of State’s two-deep. So I parsed the roster by class and found this:

two-deep

22 players on the two-deep depth chart from one recruiting class seemed note-worthy to me (Note that this is TOB’s first real class). It looks like TOB shares my opinion of the over-all talent level that Amato left on the team.

BEST CASE SCENARIO

I don’t care too much for predictions, but I think it is worth listing those things that need to happen for State to have as good a year as possible:

1) Toney Baker and Jamelle Eugene need to stay healthy and continue the improvement in State’s running game. Both players need to hang onto the ball and help Russell Wilson once again lead State to a really good turnover margin. (Odds of this happening – turnovers: pretty good; injuries: unknown).

2) State’s OL will not be good enough to generate holes against an eight-man front….but they don’t need to. They need to play solid…open holes for the RBs and buy Wilson time to make a play. (Odds of this happening – pretty good).

3) Russell Wilson needs to play as well as he did last year and hopefully even improve. Quicker decision making should keep him from taking as many hits…which will hopefully reduce the chance for injury . (Odds – pretty good.)

4) State’s offense needs to control the clock and put a lot of points up on the board. State’s best defense in 2009 will likely be its offense. (Odds – hopefully pretty good)

5) State’s DL needs to improve against the run….but most definitely needs to generate more pressure on opposing QBs. The goal would be to consistently generate enough pressure to take the heat off of the DBs. (Odds – run defense…OK; more pressure on QB – unknown).

6) State needs to find some DBs that can provide improved pass coverage. (Odds – not so good).

CLOSING THOUGHTS

Two years ago, UVA walked the tight rope and strung together a nine-win season out of a bunch of lucky breaks. A number of people have described WF’s conference title season the same way. So if you have enough pieces, then a lot of good things COULD happen if you get some breaks along the way.

If State could add small improvements in a number of different areas (while continuing to have one of the best offenses in the conference) then State COULD do the same sort of thing this year. So an 8-9 win season wouldn’t surprise me, but a 6-7 win season wouldn’t surprise me either. I’m just happy to have a FB season that I am looking forward to, rather than dreading like the last several years.

OTHER NCSU PREVIEWS

College Football News (scout.com)

Rivals.com

Phil Steele

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

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61 Responses to 2008 NC State Football Review

  1. choppack1 07/16/2009 at 5:36 PM #

    “Then where was that “solid D” in the second-half of the Pizza Bowl?”

    That’s a fair question – but I think it’s fair to recall a few things about the second half:
    Our D came out and held Rutgers to a FG after giving up some big plays early, then the offense goes 3 and out and gets a punt blocked, and takes over the ball @ the 14 where Rutgers scores a TD.

    After another 3 and out, our D makes a big play getting an INT. Then Beck throws an INT

    We had 0 1st downs in the 3rd quarter.

    I honestly believe that if our D had any faith in Evans or Beck – the result would have been different…but I think we can both agree that the D we saw in the second was the worst we’d seen since the UMd game.

    “The UNC game really skews the second-half stats. Also the first-half conference schedule was noticeably harder than the second-half schedule. Both of these facts make trending problematic. ”

    Yea, but skews work both ways. We could say that the BC game skewed the scoring average for the 1st 4 games (though it certainly didn’t do so as badly.)

    “The other three games in the second-half of the conference schedule, State’s scoring defense matched the ACC “average” defense. The passing and total defense numbers were still “below average.” State’s defense (most noticeably the run defense) did improve in the second-half of the season. But with the performance in the bowl game, it is hard to claim that the defense was ever “solid”.

    And here’s where I disagree. In the Duke, UNC and Miami games – the opposing offenses had to resort to an aerial attack against TOB’s soft zones in the second half…especially in the Miami game, we gave up a late, cheap TD- so the yardages will be higher than average.

    I’d finally add that our D was really dependent on Russell Wilson from an emotional standpoint. And in the first 4 games – you know where we can both agree that our D was awful – well, not having Nate, AMC and/or Clem Johnson really impacted us.

    “The only reason any of this matters is to determine what we should expect from this year’s defense. My conclusion is that State’s best defense will be a highly-productive offense.”

    I’d agree w/ that conclusion – especially since Irving likely won’t play. I have NO idea of what to expect, but your stats are eye-opening.

    One thing I think we should prepare for:
    TOB and Archer play zone pretty much exclusively. The defensive package is basically designed to give up short passes and keep the game in front of the defenders. I can see us have a much better record, but statistically give up lots of passing yards.

  2. VaWolf82 07/16/2009 at 7:02 PM #

    I have NO idea of what to expect

    Well at the very least, you shouldn’t be ridiculing your UNC “friends” just yet. 😉 I see the upcoming season as a series of if-thens…

    If the defense can get more pressure on the QB (either through improved DL play or by more blitzes), then the passing defense will look better.

    If someone new steps up in the secondary, then the DBs won’t have to line up 15 yards off of the ball on 3rd and 5.

    If neither happens….then State will need alot of offense and hope to get the ball last…ie 2003 all over again.

    Even in the worst-case defense scenario (which with the loss of Nate we’ve already started into), the good news is that there is no reason to think that any of this year’s opposing QBs will measure up to Charlie Whithurst, Matt Schaub, Chris Rix, Darian Durant, or Scott McBrien (who were all nationally ranked in the top-50 in total offense).

    Note of comparison….Wilson led the ACC in total offense last year….and his national ranking was 60th.

  3. VaWolf82 07/16/2009 at 7:08 PM #

    I honestly believe that if our D had any faith in Evans or Beck – the result would have been different

    And much like bradley’s posts, this sounds like someone looking for an excuse. After the all of the Herb years, the end of Amato’s tenure, and now with Lowe….I am just sick of excuses.

    To play devil’s advocate…
    Why did the defense need faith in the offense? They came out in the second half with the lead…why didn’t they have faith in themselves to hold it?

  4. choppack1 07/16/2009 at 10:23 PM #

    “To play devil’s advocate…
    Why did the defense need faith in the offense? They came out in the second half with the lead…why didn’t they have faith in themselves to hold it?”

    Leadership, confidence and heart.

    I play golf – played it for a while now. From my own experience, I can tell you how important confidence is on the course.

    While it doese sound like an excuse – go ahead, look at the D’s #s when RW was playing D1 opponents, then compare them to the #s when the 2 QBs played them.

    I don’t like the fact that apparently the D needed to see him on the sidelines to step it up, but I’m sure those statistics would reveal that the “D” was much better w/ #16 on the field for the offense than they were w/ Beck or Evans.

    Of course, we see it all the time in sports. Some people have that kind of impact on teams – most don’t.Heck, look what happened to Duke the one year they didn’t have Coach K.

    And the team isn’t stupid. They pretty much know no matter what they did, there was a good chance it would be undone. And well, all I can say is if you are being led by a pisspour manager, even good workers are likely to have crappy results.

  5. VaWolf82 07/16/2009 at 11:13 PM #

    I don’t like the fact that apparently the D needed to see him on the sidelines to step it up,

    See this is where excuses become illogical. RW played during the FSU, BC, and UMD games. In each game, the defense needed a stop so that State could take or keep the lead in the 4th qtr. In each of these games, the defense fell short.

    So you either come to the conclusion that the defense was pretty bad or you come up with a long list of excuses to cover the different times and the different ways the defense came up short…your choice.

  6. choppack1 07/17/2009 at 8:38 AM #

    “See this is where excuses become illogical. RW played during the FSU, BC, and UMD games. In each game, the defense needed a stop so that State could take or keep the lead in the 4th qtr. In each of these games, the defense fell short.”

    You’re right, but AMC, Irving and Clem Johnson didn’t play in those games – AND when they weren’t on the field, our D did suck – when they were, it was much better. Heck, I’ll go on record right now and say if AMC misses games against decent teams, our D will struggle.

    OTOH, when AMC, Irving and Johnson did play – go figure, suddenly our D got better.

    I think the #s support the fact that NC State’s defense had 2 seasons. I think that if Russel Wilson returns to the game vs. Rutgers, our D doesn’t give up 23 points in the second half – I’d bet my left nutt on it.

  7. VaWolf82 07/17/2009 at 9:37 AM #

    Let’s not lose the main focus of the original article…I am trying to classify last year’s defense as a springboard for pre-season projections. The only times that State’s defense looked “decent” (or average) was when the offense was scoring lots of points, everyone was healthy, and we were playing the weaker teams on the schedule…and even then, the pass defense sucked. The only game that the defense looked “good” (above average) was when UNC didn’t clean up the Vaseline from whatever they were using it for in the locker room. 😉

    So when I look at the defense from last year to this one, I don’t see an improving defense that we can expect to continue improving in 2009. I see a weak defense (with little depth), that we can expect to struggle against the better teams in the conference, whenever the few play makers on defense are injured, or whenever the offense can’t score lots of points.

  8. tvp1 07/19/2009 at 11:18 AM #

    Good analysis VaWolf.

    When talking about the defense, and particularly the poor pass defense, it is interesting to look back at just how thin and inexperienced we were last year. Below is the list of top 14 tacklers from the back 7 in 2007 (I’m using tackles here as a general proxy for playing time and ability).

    DeJuan Morgan
    Ernest Jones
    James Martin
    Jeremey Gray
    LeRue Rumph
    Miguel Scott
    Nate Irving
    Javon Walker
    Ray Michel
    Jimmie Sutton
    JC Neal
    DeAndre Morgan
    John Ware
    Robbie Leonard

    Let’s take that as essentially the two deep of the LBs and secondary. Of that list, only 6 of the top 14 (Gray, Irving, Michel, Neal, Morgan, Leonard), and only two of the top 8, played for us at all in 2008. When Nate Irving was out early in the year, our back 7 was playing only 1 of the top 8 tacklers from the year before. And add into that the injury loss of Clem Johnson, who ended up starting after he returned. Is it any wonder that our pass defense was putrid?

    How is the list of 2008 top tacklers (note that I left Ryan Goodman off, as I think he got almost all of his tackles on special teams):

    Ray Michel
    Robbie Leonard
    JC Neal
    Nate Irving
    Jeremy Gray
    DeAndre Morgan
    Justin Byers
    Clem Johnson
    Dwayne Maddox
    Bobby Floyd
    Jimmaul Simmons
    Dom Ellis
    Sterling Lucas
    Audi Cole

    Only returning 1 of the top 5 (Michel), 2 if Nate comes back. But we return 10/11 of the top 14 (depending on Nate). Plus Javon Walker returns. This seems to be a much more normal level of attrition, as opposed to the complete devastation we dealt with last year.

    In short, this gives me hope that the pass D will improve somewhat on a yards allowed/attempt basis, because we should not have to throw so many green players out there. Our pass D was already better than it has been in recent years at intercepting passes (4.0% interceptions). Couple this with a DL that should start 4 seniors, two of which are potentially all-ACC players, and it seems reasonable to expect some significant improvement on D, even if Nate cannot play.

  9. VaWolf82 07/19/2009 at 3:48 PM #

    Nice work. But I’m not sure that there is necessarily a correlation between tackles and coverage ability. State needs someone to stop the pass…not just tackle the WR after the catch.

    I also think that you should have left the last sentence off. There is no way that I would bet any money on this:

    it seems reasonable to expect some significant improvement on D, even if Nate cannot play.

  10. tvp1 07/19/2009 at 10:46 PM #

    ^I don’t think that there is a correlation (see JC Neal, for instance, who couldn’t cover a thing). I was using tackles as basically a rough estimate of playing time. In one of your earlier previews, you talked about how losing starters is a useful data point, but doesn’t tell you the whole story – are the starters being replaced by seasoned backups, or green freshman? In our case, last year it was the latter, particularly at LB and S. We lost basically the entire two deep at those positions from the previous year and had to play lots of true FR and R-Fr. No wonder that we struggled so much early on. The losses of Irving and Cash didn’t help, but even with those guys we were shredded by Clemson early in the season.

    I’ll stand by that second statement. To clarify, I meant significant improvement in the overall numbers, not necessarily significant improvement over how we were playing at the end of the year (where the run defense was decent and the pass defense was slightly better – if you look at the numbers on a yard per attempt basis and count the Rutgers game it doesn’t look quite as bad). Our D was the worst in the ACC last year. I see us as coming in with a mid-level or slightly worse D this year, which will be a significant improvement over last year. We’ll see what happens.

  11. VaWolf82 07/20/2009 at 9:29 AM #

    I see us as coming in with a mid-level or slightly worse D this year, which will be a significant improvement over last year.

    My hope (based on nothing rational) is that State’s defense will move into the middle 1/3 of the conference. If Nate is indeed lost for the season, then I really don’t expect it to happen. However, there is still hope that the offense can cover up our defensive weaknesses.

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