No post season of any kind for Wolfpack

08-09 Basketball General102

Despite all the frustration that many State fans are currently expressing — it is weird to think that had the Wolfpack just hit a couple of missed free throws in the last minute of games against Marquette, Florida and Virginia Tech that we would have been guaranteed an NIT bid and would have entered the ACC Tournament on the NCAA Bubble. Think about that.

It’s the ‘little things’ that make all the difference – and items like free throws, defense, general fundamentals and organizational professionalism are the ‘little things’ that this basketball program needs to improve upon with no time to spare.

Lee Fowler may still believe that he ‘knows basketball’, but he evidently doesn’t know anyone that can get his basketball program into any of the three secondary basketball tournaments being played this year.

NIT
Link to ACCNow

It wasn’t a surprise that the Wolfpack wasn’t invited to the NIT. There are actually some pretty good matchups in the NIT.

CBI
The College Basketball Invitational (CBI) – which saw Tulsa defeat Bradley to win year’s inaugural tournament – felt as though it would be natural fit for State’s season to extend. (Link) But, the Wolfpack failed to make the CBI field that included, Stanford, Richmond, Charleston, Troy, St. John’s, Oregon State, Houston, Green Bay, Vermont, Wyoming, UTEP, Northeastern, Nevada, Wichita State, Boise State & Buffalo.

If only those Athletics Directors ‘knew basketball’!

CIT
The new CollegeInsider.com Tournament will not include the Wolfpack. The website for this tournament discusses the event and includes the following that would explain how nothing but mid-majors comprise the field.

Eligible Teams:
Participating teams must finish the regular season with a winning record against division I opponents. Teams whose conferences have less than fifty-percent (50%) of their teams participating in the NCAA and NIT tournaments will be given higher priority for selection into the CollegeInsider.com Postseason Tournament.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

08-09 Basketball General

102 Responses to No post season of any kind for Wolfpack

  1. Noah 03/16/2009 at 8:58 AM #

    I’ve never understood the “you have to give a coach five years” argument.

    Remember in Fletch when Chevy Chase is posing as an airline mechanic? He’s supposed to look over some part on the nose of the plane and he wanders back to look at the luggage compartment.

    Right now, we’re the two idiots wondering why we were told to prepare a fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil, gauze pads, and ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Quaker State.

    When Lowe was hired, he had a TERRIBLE record as a head coach. Since coming to NC State, he has a TERRIBLE record as a head coach. The only difference is that in the NBA, you don’t get to play Lipscomb.

    When you find yourself in a hole, what’s the first thing you do? Everyone over the age of about 12 knows the answer to that question.

    (Hint for those 12 and under: It’s not “wait five years to address the problem”)

  2. Rick 03/16/2009 at 8:59 AM #

    “This is the best thing that could have happened. The last thing we needed after this abortion of a season was some sort of pseudo-validation for Lee Fowler & Co. that this is a program “on the rise.”

    Agreed
    I had no desire to see some of our players play again.

  3. Rick 03/16/2009 at 9:03 AM #

    IMO next year is the do or die year for Sid.
    I am not saying he will be fired. I am also not saying that I have confidence in him.
    What I am saying is if he does not show something next year we will be in the dreaded death spiral (I know BJD thinks we are already there but I feel the end of this year pulled us out of it). He needs to show recruits he can coach. He needs to show them he understand substitutions.

    If not he will never get over that hump.
    Even if he fails next year I do not see him being fired as Fowler is still there.

  4. James 03/16/2009 at 9:09 AM #

    “Since it’s the end of year 3 and we can talk about coaching a little more, I’ve been curious what Jeff’s feeling on all of this are? I remember him wanting Sendek to be gone after year 3, yet here we are and Lowe has a worse ACC record?”

    Jeff didn’t support getting rid of Sendek at the end of year three. So you are flat out wrong there.

    Also, regarding Jeff’s analysis, the first four points still could happen under Lowe. Like any projection though, his was based on the assumption that the coaching search would be handled in a competent manner. We all know that it wasn’t.

  5. Str8Pack 03/16/2009 at 9:10 AM #

    It’s always the same thing. “I Hate Lee Fowler”. Look its not just that guy that makes decisions on what goes on. The reason we have not beeen successful is because we were constantly outcoached. We have talent on our team. Certain rotations seem to work well at times during the season and then Sid would just go to something differrent. ANd holding the ball getting conservative when you are clicking just because time is running down!!!!!Wow that costs us a couple. Let me just say that I am not a Sid hater. I think in time he can be a great college coach and he is a descent recruiter if he could just win some games. BUT, the only way Sid is gonna become better is by coaching college games and living and learning. We will just have to wait and see where he learns at. This is Sad. Keep pimpin that Red Jacket Sid. I feel ya

  6. Tom 03/16/2009 at 9:13 AM #

    “If” anyone wants to defend Sidney Lowe to continue as BB coach, please provide some examples of his stellar coaching/recruiting ability that actually won some games. IMO, he is always outcoached. The other ACC coaches would like to keep him around. It is like stealing candy from a baby – so easy. ENOUGH is ENOUGH. We do not have to settle for “when good enough is good enough.”

  7. Str8Pack 03/16/2009 at 9:20 AM #

    He never coached a college game before. Rome wasnt built in a day but our fans were sure destroyed overnight. Everyone is right about us (Pack Fans) always whining about some excuse. Suck it up. Sid needs time and hopefully that is what they will give him. Besides who is gonna replace him? Larry Harris?

  8. packof81 03/16/2009 at 9:23 AM #

    I am relieved this season has come to a merciful end. This year’s performance has been a complete embarrassment.

    Attention to details has been lacking all season and little improvement has been evident. For example, free throw percentages started low and stayed low until the end, perhaps even getting worse. That tells me the players were not working on free throws. It seems to me that’s one of the easier things there are to fix. But it didn’t happen this season. It didn’t happen last season. And unless substantial change is made, the safe bet is it won’t happen next year either.

  9. whitefang 03/16/2009 at 9:25 AM #

    The BOT could force the change just like they did on Amato even if Fowler isn’t going anywhere. They could tell him to sit down and shut up. Then hire a search guy to do the job. Of course the trigger has to be pulled on Lowe first.
    We ARE in the death spiral. Recruits are changing minds, students are apathetic, tickets are not being ordered, money is being withheld (Same thing is going on to the north – Va – by the way). Is there some remote possiblity the pilot pulls us out of the death spiral? Of course, but it is so remote I think it is time to bail out of the plane before it loses anymore altitude.

  10. Noah 03/16/2009 at 9:27 AM #

    Sid needs time? To do…what? Figure out that point guards are important? Figure out that taking third-string transfers from crap teams is a bad idea?

    What chapter of “Coaching For Idiots” is he on now? The one that tells you that strength and conditioning is a good idea? He hadn’t got there as of last year.

  11. ktoh 03/16/2009 at 9:30 AM #

    No ,3 years is plenty ,and we have seen enough.
    No, you clean house, and let the new coach pick his staff.
    If Sid gets another year ,it will be another 10th-11th-12th place finish. Pull the plug and move on.

  12. Noah 03/16/2009 at 9:30 AM #

    Is there some remote possiblity the pilot pulls us out of the death spiral?

    A skilled pilot can recover a plane that is in serious trouble. But even skilled pilots will fly a plane into the ground in that situation from time to time.

    Lowe is not a skilled pilot. He’s not even a pilot. He’s some guy who walked from the back of the plane and said, “Hey! 25 years ago I was a passenger once on a plane that didn’t crash.”

  13. Mike 03/16/2009 at 9:34 AM #

    It’s funny how many better coaches are out there, knocking our doors down to come coach in the ACC. Some coaches would look at this as a challenge, and some would look at it as a no-win (pun not intended) scenario. Barnes and Calimarislime turned us down, and I dont beleive either of them were looking for anything more than a big raise. We dont know who else Fowler contacted – I am sure there are names he contacted that turned us down that we never heard about. Yes, he screwed up the search, but you dont know what was done behind the scenes and who he was in contact with.

    Perception may be reality here – perception is we ran off a good man. Reality is we insiders to NC State basketball know better. But that perception in the marketplace does have some clout. Reality shows that once again, a team in a weak Pac10 with top talent struggles in the big games and chokes away a game that they should have won going away. The only difference in that team and several State teams is the color of hte uniform (and the fact they have 2 NBA players, including a lotto pick and we had none).

    I wanted Mike Montgomery way back when and I was probably the first person to being him up, but I dont have the time to search the archives for this fact. But let’s look at other names thrown about on here:

    Gillespie – has KY out of the tournament for the first time in 18 years. If you cant win at Ky in a weak SEC……. Ky has many more recruiting advantages than NCSU and the ACC is far more difficult league.

    Sean Miller – they finished their year 5-5 in the last 10 games, losing to powerhouses such as Charlotte, Richmond, and Duquesne. I remember watching them get rolled by Dook in a game that the 18 point final score was not indicative of the pasting they took.

    Tubby – Tubby is Tubby and never could win the big ones.

    Capel – he is Dookie and doing very well at Oklahoma. How much of that is dependant on one recruit who will be gone after this year? He turned around VCU, and deserves credit, but no way he leaves Oklahoma.

    Grant – walked into a good situation at VCU. They were 24-9, but lost to ECU, Delaware,and UNCW. Some bad losses there, and if this guy were here and had those losses, the gripes and complaints would be loud.

    Purnell – supposedly has turned Clempsun around, but has he? Another late season swoon and they are in the same boat as always down in SC. Weak non-conference schedule and a 16-0 start makes for optimism, but at 23-8, that is 7-8 over the last half of the season, including a loss to UVA and to GTech in the tourney.

    Haith – where did Miami finish? Sid has owned Haith. Enough said.

    Jerry Wainwright, master of media darling UNCW a few years ago, went winless at DePaul. Enough said.

    What am I trying to say to those still reading this far? EVERY coach has flaws and bad losses. The grass is not always greener on the other side. Just because Coach A won at so and so, does not mean he will have immediate success at another school, including NC State. There is no perfect coach. Heck, even UNX fans are complaining about ol Roy, and frankly, with the talent they have………..

    Folks, we had no talent. The little bit of talent we had were Costner and Fells, and I think enough has been said about them to say it all. So Sid should have recruited better. He lost one class completely and was late getting started on his 2nd class. By the time he was hired, most of the big boys were already committed. Sid looked to the future and lined up the guys he could to get the right talent here. Did he waste scholarships? Maybe. Marques Johnson? He needed some players and took a chance. Did it work? No. Lew – did it work? You can’t teach 7’2″ and was a project but worth the risk. Javi? Jury is still out, but that one might work.

    Is Lowe the best coach? No. Is he the right man for us? Maybe. I think as a coach/strategist/X’s and O’s, whatever you want to call it, he is pretty good. I admit he struggles with chemistry and player management, but this can come in time, and chemistry may be better next year through addition by subtraction. We can get rid of Sid, but when we do, we will bring in someone else that has their own issues and areas for improvement. And do you really want Jed finding that guy? This team showed improvement in spurts, and this team was picked to finish 12th. We finished 10th in a strong ACC, which is better than expectations (not ours of course but where the experts thought we should be). We did not lose any games we were supposed to win. There are no “A” grade coaches willing to come here. There are some good “B” coaches who would come here, but they may not be an upgrade. Dean, K, Roy, name your coach – they will all tell you it’s amazing how much better of a coach they are with talent. I have seen Sid outcoach other coaches but the talent level (or lack of) hurt us. Sid lost Wall, Cousins, and Favors, but HE HAD HIS NAME ON THE SHORT LIST. I am not saying I wanted any of the three – jury is still out on them as people. Dump Sid now and we can get a good coach, but in doing so, you set the program back another 3-5 years. Our best chance of turning this around is sticking with Sid and giving him the chance to succeed.

  14. BJD95 03/16/2009 at 9:37 AM #

    I do think we’re still in the Death Spiral. I started to hope I was wrong for awhile, but our double bed shitting against Maryland and Leslie making good on his de-commital threat have convinced me that we are still in it.

    However, the focus should still be on what happens first – Fowler MUST go. The new AD likely would (and should, unless an obvious fit like Gillispie is in play and definitely ready to sign with us) give Lowe an evaluation year before pulling the trigger. And I am fine with that.

    Just tossing Lowe would be a band-aid solution to a systemic problem. I apologize for not making that more clear yesterday.

  15. wufpup76 03/16/2009 at 9:46 AM #

    Noah, you are a funny dude. (I mean your jokes are funny, not anything disparaging.)

  16. Rochester 03/16/2009 at 9:47 AM #

    BJD, you hinted at three potential awful headlines this offseason. Leslie was the first. What are the other two?

    BJD – I didn’t think it would be interpreted that way. I just figured everyone would have “Leslie de-commits” in their mental Top Three, so it was a way to give folks a fair warning without saying “Leslie is going to de-commit” at that point in time. No, I’m not waiting for 2 other shoes to drop.

  17. Wolfpack_1995 03/16/2009 at 9:52 AM #

    Can someone start another “Death Spiral” Thread?

    Last time the thread seemed to have a reverse placebo effect and things starting going well for us.

    Just asking! 😉

  18. packer74 03/16/2009 at 9:52 AM #

    Season over, thank goodness.

  19. newt 03/16/2009 at 9:54 AM #

    This is the second time I’ve seen NC State let its basketball program fall back to square one when it didn’t have to happen.

    On the bright side, I am actually seeing evidence from James Oblinger’s office that there is such a thing as school pride at NC State, and I think some recent moves from the administration may lead us to improved performance across the board in athletics.

    Athletics is about recruiting, and recruiting is largely about University image and student life. Frankly, NC State has lagged in those areas, but I see signs of improvement.

    As evidence, I offer the “Red Means Go” campaign and the Greek Village Development Program.

  20. sautz 03/16/2009 at 9:54 AM #

    James, I may have misremembed when Jeff started calling for Sendek’s head… I’m pretty sure he said at some point he said he realized Sendek should have been gone after 2.5 years.
    I may be wrong on that, but that wasn’t my point. I was curious to see what his opinion is now after 3 years of Lowe considering he has a worse statistical record than Sendek in the ACC and his old tagline about changing his mind when the facts change.
    I know he, as well as most of us, when through Robinson, Sendek, and now Lowe and I respect his opinion. To me, it’s all looking really bad right now.

  21. whitefang 03/16/2009 at 9:55 AM #

    BJD, I disagree. Tossing Chuckles was the right thing to do with of without LF as AD. He obviously was not getting it done, and I believe the decision was taken away from LF and made without him.
    I see no difference in the situation now. Lowe is way over his head. Sure he has us on the short list for some recruits, and has a decent class coming in. But the deficiences in the development of players, preparation, etc are not going away and now recruits can smell blood in the water.

  22. Rochester 03/16/2009 at 9:59 AM #

    “now recruits can smell blood in the water.”

    So can other coaches. Just like they recruited against Herb’s impending demise after year 4-5, they will be whispering to recruits now, “hmmm … Sid’s a great guy, just not sure he’ll be there for much longer, son.”

  23. choppack1 03/16/2009 at 10:04 AM #

    As I mentioned on another thread, if you are looking for a silver lining, here it is:

    Of the 7 coaches going to the NCAA, only 2 made the tournament in their first 3 seasons. Roy and Dino fall into this category.

    Coach K, Gary Williams, Al Skinner, Oliver Purnell and Leonard Hamilton didn’t make the tourney in their first 3 years.

    I don’t really want to weigh into the speculation as to why we keep on missing the mark, as I agree that it’s a cumulation of little things. The “little things” in sports are typically things that winners do and losers don’t. In football, the little things are blocking, tackling, and TO’s. In golf, it’s putting and chipping. In baseball, it’s fielding, and bunting or sac flying to advance a runner.

    We can argue all day and night about WHY these things are happening. Folks fall in 1 of 3 camps:
    *They are happening because this staff can’t coach a lick.
    *They are happening because of the recruits brought in by the previous staff are head cases and the new coach hasn’t had a chance to bring in his guys yet.
    *I don’t know they cause, but they are happening. It could be a combo of the first two, but that doesn’t change the fact it’s happening.

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, next year, if there’s a positive, we’ll get a better idea of the root cause. It is entirely possible that through the incoming class, the departure of some key players in the conference and trhough learning from mistakes, we could see significant improvement. But as it is today, if we improve, the “why” shouldn’t be important. It will only matter that we’ve improved.

  24. TomCat 03/16/2009 at 10:04 AM #

    Sidney Lowe— stepped up for NC State in the midst of the storm. He picked up the pieces of this program during a disasterous transition and a endless coaching search. He calmed the waters. We should be eternally grateful for the actions of Sid as a member of the the Wolfpack family. I respect to no end the committment he and his staff have made, stepping into the breach and working their butts off for this program. I will never utter a bad word about Sidney Lowe.

    That aside, the future of this program requires perspective. We’ve played this scenario out before- from start to finish. It was known as the Les Robinson era. The difficulty: where is the line drawn between evaluation of the performance of a head coach who laced up for the program and the evaluation of any other head coach under the same criteria. Sidney deserves the respect that comes with the path he has taken and the weight he has taken on his shoulders- but at some point there has to be a clinical analysis of our situation and a clinical decision made. While the 3rd-year prognosis doesn’t bode well I think it is too early to make that call. Any coach would be allowed to get their guys in the program and flourish or perish. Lowe deserves no less. And, like any other coach, 4 years into the program we will make that evaluation and the clock for that call starts today.

    No one player, coach, alumni or hired personnel is bigger than the university. That is the bottom line- and where our judgement will be made. Les Robinson as perspective?… Try Matt Daughtery as perspective. Enough said. I hope like heck we win 20 plus next season which entirely removes this debate from the table. If that is not the case- we respond for the program

  25. ncsufan23 03/16/2009 at 10:05 AM #

    At least Lee Fowler found one great coach when he hired Tom O’ Brien. Now he needs to do that again or he should be fired

1 2 3 4 5

Leave a Reply