The Point Guard Drought, Contextualized

NCS Basketball87

NC State’s last all-ACC point guard, as you all know, was Chris Corchiani (1990-91). Here is what we believe to be a comprehensive list of other programs’ PG representatives on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd team all-conference, in the post-Fire era:

Boston College (1) – Tyrese Rice*
Clemson (2) – Terrell McIntyre, Chris Whitney
Virginia Tech (1) – Jamon Gordon**
Duke (7) – Bobby Hurley, Chris Collins, Jeff Capel, Steve Wojciechowski, Jayson Williams, Chris Duhon, Greg Paulus
Florida State – none***
Georgia Tech (5) – Jon Barry, Travis Best, Stephon Marbury, Tony Akins, Jarret Jack
Maryland (2) – Steve Blake, Greivis Vasquez
Miami – none**
UNC (5) – Derek Phelps, Jeff McInnis, Ed Cota, Raymond Felton, Ty Lawson
Virginia (4) – Cory Alexander, Harold Deane, Donald Hand, Sean Singletary
Wake Forest (3) – Robert O’Kelley, Justin Gray, Chris Paul

* 4th ACC season
** 5th ACC season
*** Toney Douglas is a lock for all-ACC this season

The numbers speak for themselves – it’s clear that NC State has had the worst line of PG play in the ACC (ever since we voluntarily de-emphasized the basketball program in 1990). Not surprisingly, there is a strong correlation between the number of PGs on this list and the amount of success each program has enjoyed.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

NCS Basketball

87 Responses to The Point Guard Drought, Contextualized

  1. TheACCForums.com 01/30/2009 at 10:04 AM #

    Wait, am I reading it right that State has only had one that would be on this list, or was Corchiani simply the most recent one?

  2. James 01/30/2009 at 10:06 AM #

    Interesting. For Florida State, wasn’t Charlie Ward All-ACC as a point guard?

  3. GAWolf 01/30/2009 at 10:08 AM #

    We also took a 10 year hiatus during this time to de-emphasize position-specific basketball players.

    You can do the same with almost any position on the floor. Minus JJ last year, who was our even close to dominant big man? Fuller?

    What about a shooting guard who you had confidence could hit the big bucket down the stretch? Monroe?

    This is a good analysis of our obvious lack of quality play at the 1, but you could do the same for each position.

    Hodge. I forgot about Hodge. And truthfully, I know many of you will disagree with me, Hodge would have been another guy to be a quality support character on a truly great team rather than a superstar. I know his size makes it difficult for him to find a place in the NBA, but his pro career is indicative of how he just isn’t the dominant force we thought he was when he was our only weapon.

  4. wufpup76 01/30/2009 at 10:09 AM #

    It literally does speak for itself …

    Let’s hope Farnold continues he’s solid play as of late and Mays keeps coming on … They’re probabaly not going to be All-ACC, but if their level of play keeps rising and our turnovers keep going down we can be in some games

    I’ll be very interested to see how it goes tomorrow against the pressure and the double the Holes like to use once the ball crosses halfcourt … Don’t run into any traps – and if you do have a plan!!!

    Go Pack … Go Farnold, Julius, and Javi (please play well tomorrow – please please please please please)

  5. GAWolf 01/30/2009 at 10:12 AM #

    ^^ just the reminder of what we’ll see Saturday made me literally cringe. And scowl. Not howl… scowl.

  6. wufpup76 01/30/2009 at 10:12 AM #

    I believe it’s that Corchiani was the most recent one, ACCForums – though I shouldn’t speak for the author 🙁

  7. BJD95 01/30/2009 at 10:29 AM #

    Corch is our LAST all-ACC point guard, not our only one.

    The list is for PG’s from the 1991-92 season and forward.

  8. wufpup76 01/30/2009 at 10:37 AM #

    Pretty good podcast up on ACC Now about State-Holes …

    blogs newsobserver com/accnow/home

  9. Alpha Wolf 01/30/2009 at 10:41 AM #

    Surprising that Atsur never made even third team.

  10. Gene 01/30/2009 at 10:42 AM #

    Another interesting look at the state of State’s talent, since Les’ first year is the number of all conference players we’ve had, compared to other schools not just PG’s. Off the top of my head, I think it’s:

    Gugs
    K. Thompson
    Fuller
    Grundy (honorable metion)
    Hodge
    Hickson (honorable mention, maybe)

  11. oldflyingfarmer 01/30/2009 at 10:48 AM #

    I am still hoping that we are on the verge of this changing. We have definitely been left out nationally for long enough. If things continue with recruiting, I pray that we are on our way back.

  12. Daily Update 01/30/2009 at 11:39 AM #

    All-ACC shooting guards – Anthony Grundy and Cam Bennerman.

    Did Engin Atsur ever make all-ACC? He probably would have his senior year had he not got hurt. But that sort of supports this entry as far as explaining many of our issues. When he played in Lowe’s first year, we could beat anyone. When he didn’t, we could lose to anyone.

  13. UNC DonkeyPncher 01/30/2009 at 11:57 AM #

    The point guard is the quarterback of the basketball team, please see NC State’s football record without a competent QB at the helm. Enough said. Thank God for Russell Wilson, still waiting for a PG though…..

  14. Delete-Me 01/30/2009 at 12:03 PM #

    I don’t know… Devil’s advocate here, but with the exception of Carolina and Duke (possibly Maryland and GT), none of those other teams have sniffed a NC.

    You can use this information to paint any picture you want I suppose.

  15. choppack1 01/30/2009 at 12:06 PM #

    I’ve never really fully bought the “the reason we haven’t been good is because we didn’t have a good PG” argument, but I do buy that the reason we weren’t “great” was because we didn’t have a “great” PG.

    Why do I say that…If you believe that PG makes the team, then you’d have to buy that of the original ACC, the standings would be (for the last 18 years)
    1) Duke – I can buy that.
    2) UNC, GaTech – it’s starting to get a little shaky w/ Tech in there.
    4) UVa – it’s starting to get real shaky
    5) UMd and Clemson
    7) Wake – I’m thinking they are higher.
    8) FSU and NC State

    Without looking at anything, for the 18 years in the ACC, I’d say the standings would probably be:
    1) Duke – +
    2) UNC – +
    3) UMd – off
    4) Wake – off
    5) Tech – off
    6) Uva – off
    7) State – +
    8) Clemson – off
    9) FSU – +

    I didn’t do the math for a deviation, but like I said, I see more of a correlation between great PGs and success, than I just good ones.
    The great ones I’d consider are:
    Rice
    Hurley
    Jayson Williams
    Duhon
    Best
    Marbury
    Jack
    Blake
    McInnis
    Cota
    Felton
    Lawson
    Singeltary
    Paul

    Now, when you look at those guys, you are not just talking about “average” success. From what I can tell you’ve got 5 national titles, several ACC titles, and tons of regular season championships. As a matter of fact, the only wwo that list who haven’t accomplished one of those three are are Jarred Jack (a championship game appearance) and Rice at BC (whom I thought about leaving off the list because he’s more of a shoot first guard.) Hopefully, Harrow can insert his name into that latter group.

  16. pakfanistan 01/30/2009 at 12:23 PM #

    I don’t know… Devil’s advocate here, but with the exception of Carolina and Duke (possibly Maryland and GT), none of those other teams have sniffed a NC.

    You can use this information to paint any picture you want I suppose.

    I don’t get it Big Dan.

    You repeated what was in the original article and then said you can draw any conclusion you want….does not compute.

    The teams with the history of best pg play have, relatively speaking the greatest history of success. Duke has the most ACC championships over this period with UNC second, I think Wake won a couple and Maryland won an ACC title and a national championship. Georgia Tech is an anomaly because Paul Hewitt is a fantastic recruiter but a horrible coach.

    So what’s your point?

  17. wufpup76 01/30/2009 at 12:48 PM #

    “You can use this information to paint any picture you want I suppose.”

    There’s some truth in that you can manipulate most stats/records to paint whatever picture you’re trying to convey, but I tend to disagree here.

    I think there is a direct correlation to regular / post season success and having a great point guard. While it’s true some never get really close to a championship (and some even still only get to the NIT), I would argue that’s mostly on the coach and/or other position players.

    When you think of teams with dominant centers / front court players that won National Championships, you’re likely to find a team that had a really good backcourt player (that usually gets forgotten or overlooked) to go with that front court player

    I would also argue that a great point guard can lead a team on a spirited post season run much more so than any other position player (for example, Miles Simon’s run w/ Arizona)

    Then again, Carmelo Anthony helped Syracuse to a National Title – and without him there’s no way they win it

    It’s an interesting subject, for sure

  18. frankiepack 01/30/2009 at 12:54 PM #

    No point Guard,No true center either. The future is looking bleak as well. Farnold and May’s nothing more than competent bench acc players.
    Last year we a’ll were talking about how Javi is improving and will step up this season.

  19. Wulfpack 01/30/2009 at 1:07 PM #

    Javi has had a tough go at it for sure this year. Degand and Mays have to have something to do with his reduced confidence. I really like the way Degand is coming along. Mays has a huge upside if he continues to improve.

    The margin is so razor thin for this team to win games. Solid PG play is a bonus against average competition and a must against the top teams, and we saw what that did for us against Miami.

  20. Wisc-Wolf 01/30/2009 at 1:22 PM #

    This gives you an idea of what a big loss Wright was when State let him out of his commitment. It was too late to get a good recruit and Lowe’s teams have struggled at point since. This also amplified the injuries to Atsur and Degand.

  21. BJD95 01/30/2009 at 1:28 PM #

    You never heard me talking up Javi last year, I promise.

    IMHO, Mays does indeed project as a backup. Over the last 2 games, Degand has been a serviceable starter. Hopefully he can play that way all of next season.

  22. BJD95 01/30/2009 at 1:31 PM #

    Wright never signed. Not sure he would have been the answer, either. His Hoyas have really struggled this year, and things I heard when he decommitted lead me to believe he’s pretty soft.

  23. WV Wolf 01/30/2009 at 1:34 PM #

    Here are some more point guard/assist stats for you.

    Corch averaged 8.4 assists for his career. Since then we haven’t had a player average over 5 assists a game in a single season.

    There have only been 6 players to average over 4 assists a game in a season post-Corch:
    Donnie Seale, 4.5 in 91-92
    Curtis Marshall, 4.3 in 92-93 and 4.5 in 93-94
    Ishua Benjamin, 4.6 in 94-95
    Cliff Crawford, 4.2 in 02-03
    Julius Hodge, 4.8 in 04-05
    Engin Astur, 4.2 in 06-07

  24. choppack1 01/30/2009 at 1:54 PM #

    Wow. WV – good find…Interesting that Hodge put up the highest assist #s we’ve had since.

    I would have liked to have seen more of Simmons and Hodge on the floor at the same time.

  25. packbackr04 01/30/2009 at 2:11 PM #

    http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/jan/29/kansas-notebook/?sports

    so…. wall is gone. can we start talking JUCO’s at this point?

1 2 3 4

Leave a Reply