ACC Went 6-4 This Season Against God’s Conference

Some odds and ends to fill the time before the Wolfpack tips against Davidson Saturday and bowl bids are finally settled:

The Big Lead: Head to Head, The ACC Beat the SEC This Year

We all know the Pac-10’s a joke. And everyone thinks the ACC is a joke.

We compiled the season-long stats, and if our math is correct, the ACC won six of the 10 games head-to-head with the SEC this season.

Not so bad for a conference that has been talked down all year across the landscape of college football.  Fact is, the problem with the ACC is one of balance and also the lack of a clear-cut pair of great teams to marquee the conference in the national media.  In other words, the ACC has no football equivalent of basketball’s Duke and Carolina ranked in the top ten year in year out to make the rest of conference look better.  FSU, Miami and Virginia Tech are supposed to be those teams, but they haven’t stood out and have a bad habit of losing to the rest of conference fairly regularly since expansion.

In fact, which conference has the highest rating from statistical guru Jeff Sagarin? The Southeastern?  The Big XII?  The Pac-10?  Nope:

      CONFERENCE          CENTRAL MEAN    SIMPLE AVERAGE  TEAMS

   1  ATLANTIC COAST      (A) =  79.07      78.88  (  1)     12
   2  BIG 12              (A) =  78.37      78.50  (  2)     12
   3  SOUTHEASTERN        (A) =  75.67      76.39  (  3)     12

Interesting. Maybe the sorry ole ACC isn’t so bad in football after all.  Perhaps if the conference had a decent post-season this year, folks would notice.

There’s one place where the ACC can’t compete — at least for now — and that’s in coaches wives.  Up in Knoxville, they’re pretty geeked about Layla Kiffin, who’s married to new Vol helmsman Lane. It’s kind of hard to argue on that point, I’d say. And don’t even try to tell me that if Dawn Bunting’s husband still ran the show in Tar Heel Town things might be different.

'08 Football General

16 Responses to ACC Went 6-4 This Season Against God’s Conference

  1. SaccoV 12/03/2008 at 5:28 PM #

    Thanks for this post, Alpha. This conversation has been an interesting one with some other less-informed fans of other schools, including the SEC.
    1) I’m not sold entirely on statistics, even the vaunted Sagarin. Since polls are inherently based on previous poll position and/or the previous season-ending polls, IMO there is no exact data on establishing rankings. I’m not sure exactly, but I believe at least six teams this year were ranked in one poll at the time NC State played that team (Wake, Clemson, BC, UNC, USF, ECU). By season’s end NONE of those teams were still ranked. Not writing this to disparage this year’s football team and the amazing 4-game stretch to become bowl eligible, I’m just uneasy about using poll rankings to determine which conference is better.

    2) The Big 12 earns an easy #2 position on this scale given that four teams in ONE HALF of the conference were ranked in the top-12 during the same week while playing each other in conference play. This is no different than when the SEC had Alabama, Florida, Georgia and LSU all in the top-15. Either way, with Georgia’s rocky play all year and LSU’s fall, it’s obvious the SEC and the Big 12 benefit in terms of rankings from pre-season hype. Sagarin’s own ratings has 5 Big 12 teams in the top-13 of this ranking. Nebraska makes 6 in the top-30. If they play each other in conference, obviously their ranking will be higher (BTW, the Huskers didn’t even play Texas or Oklahoma State this season).

    3) This ranking system is the only part of college football that fans loathe, and rightfully so. The rankings system makes no one a winner, and everyone a loser.

    Sorry to ramble, great topic as always.

  2. EverettBeez 12/03/2008 at 6:50 PM #

    Nice post, I was thinking of this on my way home at lunch, and bang there it was.

    On a side note, PineBox Tubberville’s been canned at Auburn.
    Lots of folks down there want Butch. Rumored that they’ve already talked to Mike Leech. They being someone on that crooked Board of Trustees.

  3. Wulfpack 12/03/2008 at 8:27 PM #

    The ACC can thank Wake for posting wins over Ole Miss and Vandy and GT for victories over UGA and Miss State. Clemson got its annual gimme over South Carolina. FSU and Clemson did us no favors though with blowout losses to Florida and Bama — though we know they are clearly two of the best teams in the country, if not THE best.

    I think the ACC is making some good strides and the majority of our programs are laying the foundation for better times ahead, but the conference is really struggling nationally in terms of its reputation because there is no clear cut dominant program that is a national championship contender. The SEC has two this year and it seems it’s that way every year. We have not had a contender.

    This is a very competitive conference but so is the Big 12, and there are 3 championship contenders there to our zero. Somebody has got to break away from the pack to help our cause nationally…how ’bout the Pack!

  4. wufpup76 12/03/2008 at 8:31 PM #

    Lay-la … got me on my knees

    WOW … seriously … wow … nice going, Lane

    It will be interesting to see what dominos the Tubberville firing starts off, if any … They can always promote someone from their offensive staff (he he he!)

  5. Texpack 12/03/2008 at 9:01 PM #

    As someone who eats lunch almost everyday with two SEC Alums and a Big 12 Alum this has been fun to talk trash about this week. Think about it, Ole Miss won in The Swamp but not in Groves Stadium. Not only did Wake beat Vandy, the new supposed powerhouse of the SEC this year, but Duke beat Vandy. UMd over Cal and VT winning in Lincoln also helped the cause of the ACC.

  6. GAWolf 12/03/2008 at 10:27 PM #

    Uhh. Didn’t Clemson beat USC? And hence we’re struggling with a bowl bid? I love the ACC and as a result I pull for ALL teams outside of conference regardless of sport… with the rare exception of when UNC and/or Duke fans get (way) too big for their britches.

    The bottom line: SEC football, regardless of how they played against the ACC in OOC games, really is God’s college football conference. I’ve been there, and I’ve experienced it. I’ve watched late season games in Athens, GA that otherwise would mean nothing other than their implication to the SEC championship game. To experience that, and to experience the crowd and to walk amongst those who live, breath and “be” it is something different than we’ll ever have around here.

    With all due respect, I think you’re wrong. The SEC, its fans, its aura, its tradition… it’s more than we can expect to have around here for a long, long, long time.

  7. GAWolf 12/03/2008 at 10:29 PM #

    Question: What does it take for our Athletics Department to realize it’s made a huge mistake by cutting ties with the Valvano family and the V Foundation??? What does it take? Fools. Fools, I say. We should be the #1 contributor to the V Foundation every year… if the administration won’t do it… why not the students, why not the greek system?

  8. PackerInRussia 12/03/2008 at 10:46 PM #

    I read in Pat Forde’s Forde Yard Dash article that every ACC team is in the top 51 of the Sagarin rankings. The problem is that NO team is ranked in the top 12 (possibly further down; I can’t remember). Hence a strong group of good teams, but no great teams.

  9. charlieg87 12/04/2008 at 12:00 AM #

    UNC is incredible. 35 blowout to Michigan State picked preseason the number 1 game to watch in the 40 games not to miss.

  10. MatSci94 12/04/2008 at 1:15 AM #

    The problem with comparing conferences is that people mean different things. To some people, the ‘best’ conference is the one with 2-3 really good teams. Others look for top-to-bottom strengts, etc. The middle of the ACC has been at least as good as the middle of any other conf (as far as I can remember, anyway), and the bottom isn’t *terrible* (at least this year), but our top team is vastly inferior to the SEC, Big-12, and maybe others top team. Average rankings, bowl records, and conf-vs-conf numbers measure the top-to-bottom strength, but look at the AP poll for the other way.

    I’m also not sure how much Bama’s blowout of Clemson showed how good Bama was, as opposed to how messed up Clemson was (is?)

  11. Wolf74 12/04/2008 at 7:17 AM #

    Until the top teams in the ACC are, year in and year out, in the hunt for the NC the ACC will be considered second fiddle in football. Beating the weak sisters in the SEC just doesn’t get you much press and lets face it, the SEC was way down this season. Florida and Alabama saved their bacon. Unfortunately parity doesn’t make a conference great – championships do and the SEC is at least in the hunt each season.

  12. wolfonthehill 12/04/2008 at 8:57 AM #

    The ACC is football is the polar opposite of ACC basketball.

    Basketball? Two dominant teams who grab the headlines, followed by 10 good teams, 7 of whom end up at or below .500 in the league and miss the big dance.

    Football? No dominant teams, but 10 teams at or above .500, all of whom go bowling.

    The only similarity is that, now that Duke is respectable in football, there are exactly ZERO putrid teams in the ACC in either sport… and Sagarin/power rankings are consistently reflecting this by showing that the ACC is at or near the top of the country in both sports.

    The bizarre thing is that, based on bowl/tourney appearances, the ACC appears to be “stronger” in football, but I think you’d find few people… ACC fans or not… who believe that our football is actually stronger than our basketball.

  13. GoldenChain 12/04/2008 at 11:33 AM #

    Well, let’s just take a look at this now.
    Pre-season the SEC had 4 TEAMS IN THE TOP 10 (Ga 1, Fla 5, LSU 7, & Auburn 10), plus two more: Tenn 18th, Bama 24th
    (AP polls at ESPN)
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankings?seasonYear=2008&weekNumber=15&seasonType=2&pollId=1
    Note that the ACC had 3: Clem’s son 9, VATech 17, Wake 23.

    Fast forward 14 weeks:
    SEC 2 top 10 (Bama 1, FLA 2 and GA 17, Ole M 22).
    That looks like a pretty big flop to me. Gators the only team doing as expected and Bama better than expected.
    The ACC GATech 15, BC 18 with VATech and FSU getting some votes.

    Anyway, I don’t see how any SEC fan other than a Bama fan could be happy.

    Also, if South Carolina would like a rematch I bet TOB would be glad to accommodate them.

  14. wolfbuff 12/04/2008 at 12:21 PM #

    All this talk about who’s the best conference is only good for water-cooler talks and chat boards. Conference commissioners and ADs are only trying to maximize their revenue. So, the question becomes: the schools in which conference are better off financially? Assuming all the conferences have some sort of revenue sharing arrangement, SEC and Big 12 schools are going to be better off than the ACC because those 2 conferences are getting 2 BCS bowls (which paid out $17.5 M per team last year) plus some other number of 2nd tier bowls. The ACC this year will get 1 BCS bowl plus 8, maybe 9, second tier bowls. All the other 8 (or 9) bowls added up won’t equal $17.5 M.

    So, a conference is better off (financially) with 2 BCS bowls and no other bowls. You can’t put a dollar figure on the benefits of extra practice time and bragging rights. But it ain’t much. I’d take the $35 M any day.

    The ACC dreamed of having 2 BCS teams, which is the primary reason for expansion. As stated, this hasn’t happened and isn’t likely to happen any time soon.

  15. redfred2 12/04/2008 at 9:01 PM #

    ^
    “The ACC (commi$$ioner) dreamed of having 2 BC$ team$, which i$ the primary rea$on for expan$ion.”

  16. huzzah 12/06/2008 at 12:46 PM #

    I’m a Tech fan here. I was looking up some stats online for a post on another blog and came across this site. I registered just so I could respond to Sacco and GAWolf.

    Sacco, the Sagarin ratings are based on polls only in the early part of the season. At the end of the season, like it is now, polls play no part in his ratings system. I personally believe two things — that no one system is perfect where ranking college football teams is concerned and that Sagarin’s system is as good as any other single system.

    I like the idea of a playoff. Use the BCS to seed the teams and grant at-large bids. And I’m OK with snubbing conference champions. If a team can win the Mid-Atlantic Conference with a 6-6 overall record, they should not be in the playoff at the expense of a #3 SEC team, like 9-3 UGA. I say include conference champions that meet a particular standard, say an 8-win season, or a Top-50 Sagarin rating.

    GAWolf, we may not have the SEC’s fans, auras, or traditions (especially conference-wide) but those things do not great football make. Duke is the worst team in the ACC, 12th of 12, 51st in Sagarin’s ratings. They beat Vandy, SEC’s 7th of 12 teams, possibly bowl-bound if what I read was correct, and rated 52nd by Sagarin. The ACC’s worst team is better than half of the SEC’s teams. SEC schools tend to be bigger than the ACC’s. That means more alums which means more fans. Tech hasn’t had stellar seasons in recent history, but there’s plenty of history in its program for there to be an aura. We had Heisman, for God’s sake. And all schools have traditions. SEC schools have more well known traditions, largely because the conference is so revered regardless of how good its teams actually are.

    I’m not saying the SEC is bad, but take away the top two teams and any team in the ACC can compete with any in the SEC. Reverse that and it’s no longer true.

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