Survive and Advance- NC State 79, Seton Hall 73

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None of the basketball was particularly artful, and it would be a grave mistake to pronounce that the 2007-08 Wolfpack has turned the corner. However, the season is back on track, after surviving a grueling stretch of 3 games in 6 days (with Christmas in the middle). NC State had to win all three games, and win them they did. Assuming no catastrophic loss to Western Carolina, Presbyterian, or NC Central, State will enter ACC play at 11-3, which is fairly solid ground. Even more importantly, NC State has 2 quality non-home wins (Villanova and Seton Hall) for its NCAAT resume, to balance out the 2 inexcusable losses.

Neither replacement point guard played very well, but neither cost State the game, either. Johnson, in particular, had some moments where he was actually useful on each end of the floor. Fells carried the Pack in the first half, Gavin Grant in the second (with some help from Ben and J.J.). I now no longer fear complete disaster, which is a great relief.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

07-08 Basketball

64 Responses to Survive and Advance- NC State 79, Seton Hall 73

  1. RabidWolf 12/28/2007 at 9:34 AM #

    Imagine MJ posting up Lawson…..funny stuff….

  2. zahadum 12/28/2007 at 9:47 AM #

    Nice week’s worth of effort. No, it wasn’t terribly pretty, but this ain’t figure skating, you don’t get style points. And as you pointed out yesterday BJD95, the potential was there last night for a meltdown of epic proportions. Yes, we should be 11-1 at this point. But here’s some reasons I feel good going into the new year.

    1) Gavin appears poised to have an outstanding senior year.

    2) Javi and Marques aren’t going to be superstars by any means, but they will get better.

    3) Ben seems to have come out of his funk, and is playing like the Big Ben we know from last year.

    4) JJ will just get better and better. He won’t be making the turnovers in late Feb. and March that he is now. And other than turnovers, his play has been everything I could have hoped for.

    5) We finally seem to be making some progress on the rebounding woes that have plagued us for so long.

    6) Brandon really has nowhere to go but up. I think we all agree that he hasn’t played remotely at the level he’s capable of so far this year. He doesn’t have to get back to the form he showed in the ACC tourney last year, although that would be wonderful. He just needs to start playing somewhere near his potential.

    7) Same for Dennis. He came on strong at the end of last year, maybe he can do that again this year.

  3. ShootingGuard 12/28/2007 at 9:51 AM #

    Assuming we don’t lose the next 3 cupcakes…

    If we go 8-8 in ACC play, we will be in the NCAA Tourney, regardless of what happens in the ACC Tourney. Mark it down. I have no idea why anyone is debating it. I will bet anyone any amount of money.

    Is George Mason going to take our “bubble” slot at that point when they couldn’t beat ECU or Nova?

    UNO and ECU are bad losses, but, in recent years, it has become more and more common place for mid-majors to knock off power conference foes. Commentators barely shake their heads anymore about it.

    We beat a good Nova team away from home. We won a decent tourney away from home. We beat a power conf foe on the road. We are 3-0 vs the Big East, and the ACC throttled the Big11 per usual. There is no way we go 8-8 in ACC play without adding to our quality wins column, especially when we play the presumed best of the conf (UNC, Duke, Clemson) twice each. Even if we were to lose all games to those guys, at 8-8 overall, we would be 8-2 vs everyone else in the conf. Is the ACC only sending 3 teams this year?

  4. PackPT 12/28/2007 at 10:04 AM #

    why are we talking 8-8? I thought we wanted 3rd in the conf or better, and 8-8 won’t cut it. Anything less than 10-6 is not good enough, and I’m tired of not good enough.

    SFN: First, we talk about 8-8 because the obvious direction of the conversation is to discuss the minimum record needed to get into the NCAA Tournament. Why would we talk about being 10-6 in relation to getting into the tournament?

    Second, we aren’t as good as we were hoping to be at the beginning of the year. Have you not been watching this year?

    Third, we LOST OUR STARTING POINT GUARD and are now playing with two freshmen that weren’t that highly recruited. POINT GUARD. You don’t think that requires a little re-adjustment of expectations?

    With the ACC AGAIN ranking as the nation’s top conference with the teams projected at the bottom of the conference – Miami, Wake and FSU – playing better than expected…to get mad about a top 4/5 finish in the ACC with a 19-11 regular season record and an NCAA Tournament bid in your coaches second season since taking over a program with about 7 players (only 2 of which had ever played) is truly the definition of “lunatic fringe”.

  5. charger17 12/28/2007 at 10:10 AM #

    I have looked at the rpi’s and I know the next three games are all but notches in the win column. The other thing that makes me not worry as much about overlooking these teams is that we have already lost to the worst of the worst (ECU), so there should be no reason why our guys go into a game thinking all they have to do is lace up and the other team will bow out.

    With that being said, what important things should we be looking for during this warm-up stretch for the Carolina game?

    Of course, more confidence and consistency from the PG players. But what particular things do we really need to focus on before Carolina?

  6. Sweet jumper 12/28/2007 at 10:11 AM #

    I think we are better than 8-8. The key will be stealing a couple of wins that are not expected and not losing any more games to lesser teams. We cannot play down to the level of lesser competition again this year, but we have to find a way to raise our level play to compete with superior competition. In Sid we trust.

  7. StateFans 12/28/2007 at 10:15 AM #

    ignore kevinrose…his inability to comprehend conversations won’t be tolerated here. Because we discuss and analyze things that transpire on the court is NOT ‘criticism’ of our coaches. His posts that are value-less and indicate a lack of rational thought will simply be deleted.

  8. RickJ 12/28/2007 at 10:24 AM #

    We jumped over 40 spots in the RPI with last night’s win and currently sit at 41.

    Looking at the schedule, there is a decent chance Miami will still be undefeated when they visit the RBC for our first ACC home game on January 19th.

  9. StateFans 12/28/2007 at 10:29 AM #

    ^ My general hope was to be generally “Top 50” in the RPI heading into the ACC. We are at a nice place where we can get an NCAA Tournament bid by generally ‘holding serve’.

  10. Lunatic Fringe 12/28/2007 at 10:34 AM #

    I agree with the sentiment of many that MJ will end up being the eventual starter. I believe the fact that he started the second half and was in the game during the closing minutes is evidence of that.

    I really did not like the 3 game cupcake schedule prior to UNC, but it is a blessing in disguise for our PGs to build a little comfort & confidence.

    Gavin and Fells did have great night, but really impressed how Ben and JJ were able to sneak in with double-digits despite having just average nights offensively.

    They did not have a good night protecting the ball (4 or 5 turnovers from trying to dribble through a crowd), but at least they were fouls resulting from them being aggressive going toward the basket. I am more frustrated by fouls where they are double-teamed and they throw it away.

  11. Lunatic Fringe 12/28/2007 at 10:38 AM #

    One other thing, my fingernails are taking a beating from these close wins, but we are learning how to win them in the clutch. I find myself repeatedly saying “just give it to Gavin” with about 2 minutes left in the game. 🙂

  12. StateFans 12/28/2007 at 10:47 AM #

    kevinrose,

    if you haven’t figured it out yet — something about your posts rubs us the wrong way. do yourself a favor and improve your value or simply stop posting stuff that you KNOW will be deleted to only then complain about it being deleted. Not to bright

  13. PackPT 12/28/2007 at 10:49 AM #

    I know we LOST OUR STARTING PG to injury….but these expectations came when we LOST OUR STARTING PG to graduation after last year. 8-8 is ok but I’m tired of pulling for that. Who has Miami played? Isn’t Clemson still Clemson? And won’t 10-6 also get us into the tourney? Think higher people. Yes 8-8 bare minimum but who’s pulling for bare minimum?

  14. StateFans 12/28/2007 at 10:53 AM #

    Nobody says they are pulling for the bare minimum. they are simply DISCUSSING the bare minimum necessary to get an NCAA Tournament bid.

    Hell, why are you ONLY pulling for 10-6? Most people are PULLING for 16-0!

    If we are 10-6 we easily secure an NCAA Tournament bid.

    There. Your portion of the conversation is over as there is nothing left to discuss in that scenario.

  15. charger17 12/28/2007 at 11:01 AM #

    Looking at the ACC portion, here are my thoughts based on what the ACC has done so far:

    1. We must win the six games of GT, FSU twice, VT, Mary, and WF at home. These six games are four home, two away — MUST WINS!

    2. That leaves us with four “bubble” games: home to Miami, and away at BC, Vir, and WF. We need to win two of these!

    3. Then the six games to UNC, Duke, and Clemson are where we either have to make up for bad losses or (my preference) shoot for something better than 8-8.

    Any thoughts?

  16. Par Shooter 12/28/2007 at 11:04 AM #

    I really like how the last 3 games have battle tested this team. We have been in close games with pretty good teams that like to play tough, physical ball. All 3 of these games reminded me of games against middle to lower ACC teams. Winning close games like that can breed so much confidence and I think we saw that last night. To me we looked much more comfortable in the last 4 minutes on the road than we did just a week earlier against Davidson at home.

    It is these types of games that I was clamoring for during the previous admin. Not Ky or UCLA or Arizona. But top mid-majors or mid-level major conf teams. We learned a helluva lot more in these 3 close games than we did getting our ass handed to us by MSU. It’s good to sprinkle in an elite team or 2 per year but it’s these types of games that can teach a team how to compete and win against good teams.

  17. Sweet jumper 12/28/2007 at 11:04 AM #

    charger17, I agree. It would be nice to use those UNX, Duke and Clemson games to improve on 8-8. Hopefully, we learned our lesson with ECU and UNO and will not have to make up for any more bad losses.

  18. LRM 12/28/2007 at 11:18 AM #

    We have a short two week “break” before we get another important stretch. We open ACC play with Carolina, Clemson, and Miami — we’ve shown a lot of improvement during the most recent three-game stretch, particularly on the boards and breaking the press, but we absolutely have to eliminate the inexcusable turnovers or this will not be pretty.

  19. ShootingGuard 12/28/2007 at 11:26 AM #

    I am not “shooting” for 8-8. I want to win them all. I was just debunking the thought that we are somehow on the bubble at 8-8. We won’t be at that point.

    Charger,

    I like your breakdown. My thoughts are: (1) I think winning down at FSU will be very tough (2) we need to win two road games to insure ourselves against losing 5×8 versus Duke & UNC at home—our best chances are BC, Mary, UVA, or WF followed by FSU if those guys go out partying the night before (3) all home games are must wins unless we pick up some road wins to counter balance them (4) getting wins versus the seemingly better at this point teams such as Clemson & Miami are really important just in case Duke & UNC totally dominate everyone and leave a bunch of teams circling around 7-9 or 8-8—gotta beat our competitors for bids head-to-head…4 really tough road games out of the first 6 conf games is a terrible schedule…If we don’t get depressed after that, we could get on a roll heading into tourney play…

  20. charger17 12/28/2007 at 11:32 AM #

    I’m not too fond of our 7 day layoff going into that final game at WF. It is by far the longest layoff we have in the entire conference schedule and it could be a VERY critical game. I know the tourney is the next week, but why not play this earlier in the week?

  21. tvp1 12/28/2007 at 11:35 AM #

    Our current non-conference RPI is 43 and SOS is 72.

    For comparison, here are the non-conference RPI and SOS numbers in recent history:

    2007
    RPI = 141
    SOS = 270
    Record = 10-3

    2006
    RPI = 74
    SOS = 206
    Record = 11-2

    2005
    RPI = 123
    SOS = 259
    Record = 10-3

    2004
    RPI = 47
    SOS = 82
    Record = 8-3

    2003
    RPI = 146
    SOS = 238
    Record = 7-4

    2002
    RPI = 56
    SOS = 207
    Record = 11-2

    Even if our current numbers drop significantly (as they almost surely will given the three cupcakes upcoming) we are still likely to have a better RPI and SOS than all but 1 of the NCAA teams under Sendek. So even with the NO and ECU losses, we’re in pretty good position.

    This was the main thing that always drove me nuts about the Sendek era. Gee, what a surprise that the one year we played a non-conference schedule that wasn’t in the bottom half of the NCAAs was the one year that we weren’t a bubble team going into the ACC tournament and the one year we were seeded higher than 7?????? This sin was compounded by our mediocre at best performance out of league.

    Hopefully we’ll continue to play in legitimate neutral site tournaments and play a few road games (though not in Greenville…), and also cut down on the SOS-killing cupcakes in the future.

  22. charger17 12/28/2007 at 11:37 AM #

    I agree with your #2, Shooting. If we lose at FSU (conf. game #5), we still have “make-ups” at BC and Vir. which may be an easier win especially since we have 5 days off before the BC and 4 days off before Vir.

    When game 5 away at FSU comes around we could be pretty beat up and that may not be the best scenario for a “must win”.

  23. Mike 12/28/2007 at 12:01 PM #

    I said this in the other post, but this post seems to have taken over. One issue that concerns me is we seem to play to the level of the competition. This may be Sid, or may just be a fluke. Our teams with V did this a lot too, and we can clearly see a lot of V in Sid. We seem to step up in the big games, UNX last year, ACC tourney, but sleep through some games that should be wins (EZU, Miami last year) and I really am afraid of the next 3 that we shold win easily.

  24. travelwolf 12/28/2007 at 12:06 PM #

    mike, i’ve noticed that also about both v’s teams and this team. it’s still better than a herb team.

  25. GoldenChain 12/28/2007 at 12:20 PM #

    I liked what I heard about Johnson as he played in the 2nd half last night. He logged 23 minutes and more importantly, played down the stretch with the game on the line. Plus he had only two TO’s against that typical Big East press (and I think we’re going to see a lot of that this year). All this makes me think that Sid will work him into the starting lineup if he continues to show like he did last night.
    Another positive sign was the fact that we out rebounded a quality opponent. Maybe our big front line is coming around.
    Lastly, throughout the flow of the game different players kept stepping up. Fells in the 1st half, JJ early in the second half, and Gavin down the stretch. We are much better and difficult to handle when we have many weapons that can be used throughout the game.
    I feel like they are working themselves into being a good team and perhaps the team we all hoped they would be.
    The silver lining could be that Johnson emerges as a true clutch PG and that the early season stumbles have taken us off the radar of our opponents.

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