Tailgating Talk: Another Hour

Last year NC State institued a poorly crafted “tailgating policy” that we described as “the worst kind of administrative nonsense – a solution in search of a problem.” We discussed it in this entry that definitely deserves your time.

Later in the year, this (really good) entry discussed the topic framed against a very approprite backdrop of – how do so many other institutions master this difficult subject of social interaction!

Now, NC State’s Technician is writing about their experience out there in the real world in Death Valley. This fantastic piece titled “Clemson has it right” focuses on the family atmosphere and environment fostered by Clemson’s administration. If only Clemson could have Jim Oblinger and Tom Stafford show them the way to proper risk management!!

You see, at NC State risk management = risk avoidance.

It is the ONLY way to insure that the University becomes a commuter school with no Wolfstocks, no lawn parties, no band parties, no post-big-win-celebrations, limited tailgating, no greek system of which to speak, no Hillsborough Street to enjoy and absolutely no social fabric to connect current students or to bridge the current student body to the alums of old. The University has done a fantabulous job of achieving these risk-free goals!! Bravo, Mr. Stafford!!

Today, we turn your attention to the only place you need to go to read a good perspective on the topic – Red & White From State. In this entry.

Unlike most ridiculous blather on the internet, RAWFS takes the time to not only highlight relevant issues on the topic. RAWFS also proposes a PLAN with real-life solutions and suggestions on how to execute the plan. Additionally, they highlight another example of an institution who has found a way to masterfully navigate this oh-so-tricky world of fellowship prior to an athletics event.

One only has to look at the University of Alabama with its twelve national championships in college football and its horde of fans, and the traditions that they have to see the difference: people there often start tailgaiting days in advance, and somehow the Crimson Tide manages to avoid many of the problems that seem to plague NC State’s administrators. Perhaps it is because at Alabama games a properly sized police presence is out in force and scofflaws are dealt with before they can get out of control. In short, in Tuscaloosa, if you get out of line, you’ll probably be needing someone to get you out of jail.

Take a look at a short excerpt from the fine book RammerJammerYellowHammer by Warren St. John:

“In the South, the Midwest, and other pockets of fan mania throughout America, it’s not unheard of these days for fans to arrive in their motor homes a full week before kickoff—to drive directly from one game to the next.”

What a big difference, both in the programs and in the way the respective universities treat their fans.

If our esteemed leaders with their Raleigh-centric, limited perspective ever decide to take a fact finding mission to Tuscaloosa…may we suggest that they swing by Baton Rouge while they are on the gulf coast.

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71 Responses to Tailgating Talk: Another Hour

  1. LRM 05/10/2007 at 10:24 AM #

    To be honest, the only time the four-hour rule was a real hindrance was for the night games when we were doing a pig or something that takes a long time to cook. For those noon games, it’s hard enough to get people out of bed to even tailgate.

    Mr. O, I agree. Only a handful would actually get out there much earlier than five hours.

  2. packbackr04 05/10/2007 at 10:30 AM #

    i have to say RAWFS did a good job. it is refreshing to see someone who has noted a problem, and then identifies a solution to the problem instead of just just ripping the oppositions anus over it. Maybe RAWFS should run for an elected position, because none of my elected officials seem to get it. elephants and donkeys alike, they just bad mouth each other and bad mouth the way things are without any clear plan or idea of how to make it better. not trying to get policitcal. it just made me think how refreshing it was to see RAWFS and SFN not just make a blanket statement about how poor the tailgating situation is, but they have offered viable solutions to the problem at hand. bravo gents, bravo

  3. packbackr04 05/10/2007 at 10:31 AM #

    again sorry for the social commentary, politicians just rub me the wrong way.

  4. whitefang 05/10/2007 at 10:32 AM #

    Actually having attended football games at many different venues around including Clemson, UVa, SC, UNC, Wake, GT, etc I think State has an advantage in tailgating over some since the stadium is not in the middle of a major college campus with the ever-present parking problem at universities.
    As far as police cost it is not negligible. On the other hand, I am on the board of a charity that puts on an event every fall that requires a lot of police help (large bike ride). The police balked at first due to the “budget”. Fortunately the city council forced a study to be done on the economics of bringing people in from out of town for an event like this vs. the money they spend and it was very favorable to the event. A big college football game of course dwarfs this event of 1000 people, but I believe tailgaters spend a heck of lot more money per than bicycle riders.

  5. LRM 05/10/2007 at 10:33 AM #

    I was lucky enough to tailgate at The Grove last season. The Grove itself is very small and cozy and there are no cars allowed. You pull up, unload your tents and tables, and then park your car elsewhere; otherwise, most tailgaters spread out over a large area away from The Grove.

    Vaught Hemmingway holds 60k, and there were perhaps twice that many tailgaters. They may be a snooty bunch, but they were easily the most friendly and charming people I’ve tailgated with. I realized right away what we lack in charm outside C-F we make up for with our intensity.

    I propose a Tailgating Taskforce funded by the WPC to go around the country and tailgate at various stadiums on our off weeks. I’ll volunteer. Anything for my beloved alma mater.

  6. MadWolf92 05/10/2007 at 10:36 AM #

    It generates some extra revenue for Raleigh and NC in the form of the fees paid for uniformed officers (I’d *imagine*) and undoubtedly for the fairground parking lot.

    And while not directly, it does indirectly generate revenue for NC State in that pleasant atmosphere => more donations and tickets sold.

  7. Mr O 05/10/2007 at 10:46 AM #

    Didn’t I see the number of $1500 per game for additional police thrown out by this committee?

    If that number was correct, then $1500 divided by 10000 parking passes equates to an extra $.15 per parking pass or about $1 per season.

    Wouldn’t it have been easier just to raise the price of the parking pass by a couple of dollars to cover the additional security? Raise it by $25 and I don’t think it would have been much of an issue. Why did we make this so complicated?

  8. old13 05/10/2007 at 12:01 PM #

    I thought that college professors were supposed to be thinkers. Shoot, Barnie Fife could have come up with this one (and it pretty well fits with most of Barnie’s ideas, too!) This whole approach gives the impression that the NCSU administration thinks they are running some kind of gigantic elementary school. I’m not sure I’d want to trust anyone with this approach to helping my kid grow up! Afterall, the college experience IS supposed to be about more than academics alone, isn’t it? At least that’s what my mother, a teacher, told me when I left for State. Maybe the administration should just close down all the extra activities and make NCSU a “for eggheads only” school!

  9. CaptainCraptacular 05/10/2007 at 12:04 PM #

    This hasn’t been mentioned so I’ll bring it up. If College Game Day wants to come to your stadium (something we haven’t had to worry about since Rivers left) and you have a night game or even a 3:30 game, they are going to be broadcasting in front of tailgaters and fans a lot longer than 5 hours prior to kickoff.

    Do the rules in place now allow for that situation as an exception? Or do we tell ESPN thanks but no thanks, we don’t want the game day exposure. Our school’s draconian tailgating committee doesn’t want people to be out there getting drunk too early.

  10. lush 05/10/2007 at 12:14 PM #

    “it is refreshing to see someone who has noted a problem, and then identifies a solution to the problem instead of just just ripping the oppositions anus over it”

    hear hear!! no more anus ripping!

  11. Girlfriend in a Coma 05/10/2007 at 12:19 PM #

    Almost without exception, people in the lots 5+ hours early are older “big-tailgate-setup” types who are not the drunken “element” this stupid rule aims to impact. The administration has created a time restriction that does nothing (literally) to stop a drunken shooting incident during gametime, which was the precipitating event for the rule in the first place.

    As others have said, several hours before kickoff there are relativly few people in the lots at all, and there are ZERO security or drunken “issues” with that small “big-tailgate-setup” contingent. Therefore, the rule, by definition, only impacts law-abiding folks who are responsible tailgaters. Congratulations to the Administration for threading that needle!

    How about shut down the “zoo” Trinity student lot (which has been done) and *heavily* patrol any student or “general public” lot.

    By the way, that Trinity student lot was an absolute disgrace before it got shut down. IMO the students, in letting it get that bad, are as responsible for these problems as the Adminstration. Anything that out of control is going to cause a huge reaction.

  12. highonlowe 05/10/2007 at 2:04 PM #

    I’ve always assumed the Athletic Dept. foots the bill for troopers and policemen. Does anyone know if that’s correct?
    I know that Lowe’s Motor Speedway contracts HP officers for a specified time period at $25/hour. Although LMS is privately owned and C-F is pary of a public university, I would imagine it’d be similar.
    If NCSU wants more patrolmen, all they’d have to do is pay for them.

  13. packpigskinfan23 05/10/2007 at 2:56 PM #

    CapCraptacular- very interesting thought.

  14. LRM 05/10/2007 at 3:07 PM #

    No matter what rules you make, there will always be morons that cause problems. I can say that because my friends and I used to be those morons all too often in the old student lot and on the fairgrounds.

    Then something remarkable happened: that natural process called growing up.

    For all the reasons I hear for regulating this or that, I just don’t see those problems anymore out there; or maybe I’m not paying attention. I guess my friends and I are too busy cooking out, having a few beers, and enjoying good company to give it any thought.

    As long as there are 19-22 year old college kids, we’ll have no shortage of idiots — it’s been like that for thousands of years.

    They’re the lunatic fringe of tailgating. And we all know that the lunatic fringe gets ignored.

  15. RedTerror29 05/10/2007 at 3:12 PM #

    It isn’t illegal to drink beer at tailgating in NC. It is illegal to drink liquor.

    A shortened tailgate doesn’t prevent mass drunkeness. Go check out the student tailgate at WCU if you don’t believe me (3 hour limit).

    This is more about the appearance of addressing a problem than addressing the problem.

    Even in the student section, it’s a very small segment of the population causing problems. More uniformed police officers will take care of that. As I mentioned before, an insane amount of alchohol is drank by the students at WCU before games, and underage drinking tickets are unheard of except on the off chance the ALE are in town, but incidents are few and far between, because of the uniformed police presence. The series chain of events that led up to the shooting could have been stopped at any point by a visible police presence.

  16. redfred2 05/10/2007 at 5:34 PM #

    Um, RedTerror29, from what I remember, most students in Cullowhee live out their four years of college life, *DRUNK*. It’s been a long time since I visited there, but they use to anyway.

    Back to the tailgating, if paying for more enforcement is a problem, and I know it might sound a little like a compound, but dress some officers in more casual atire, and put them out in plain view on mobil platforms with red and white NCSU canopies to make it look a little less threatening. It might even make the overall grounds look more festive for football, if done right. Have signs that read “Law Enforcement Assistance”, then the early arrivals and serious tailgaters, the “big-tailgate-setup” contingent as ‘Girlfriend in a Coma’ called them, could get to know the officers in their areas, and maybe even let them know if others are getting out control.

    It may sound goofy, I don’t know, but having one officer up high were he can see, and more importantly, up where a whole bunch of folks can’t help but see him, would eliminate any need for more officers.

  17. highstick 05/10/2007 at 6:42 PM #

    Let’s see now, we’ve got Jethro running the Athletic Department and now Barney running security. Guess old Barney’s gonna “nip this tailgating in the bud”. Yep, “nip it in the bud”!

    Might we say that the Admin at State is really out of touch with the rest of the world? Why not just let the folks tailgate, prosecute those that get out of hand, and quit trying to be politically correct about every move. If State wants to have a big time football program, then act like it rather than catering to the “wine and cheese crowd” of Raleigh.

  18. redfred2 05/10/2007 at 8:12 PM #

    “quit trying to be politically correct”

    I hope everyone already knows that I’d much rather see a cow, wearing a tailored RED blazer, made of fine American textiles, if they’re available anywhere now, rather than a wolf as the NC State mascot. But I can’t really blame the wine and cheesers for anything, it’s all of the wannabe’s who get my goat.

    I think if ever there was a crowd who COWered to, is more guilty of, and is probably the ultimate prototype and poster child for, beginning over a decade and a half ago in the year 1990, it is overtly politically correctness run amuck, of the crowd who were in charge back then, and their clone-like predecessors, who are now the mainstay in Raleigh.

  19. john of sparta 05/10/2007 at 9:18 PM #

    NCSU has some valuable property to sell.
    NC is selling Dix Hill…..so, following the road
    to a “commuter school” is economically viable.
    the football and basketball facilities have been
    outsourced just like WFU.
    WFU=ACC champs.
    NCSU is on the right road.
    how about parking/tailgating?
    Mo money Mo money.
    do i hear “time-share”?

  20. brown pelican 05/10/2007 at 11:44 PM #

    visit any sec stadium—any big ten stadium—ok exclude northwestern—and see what tailgaiting is and should be—if we propose to develop a ‘big-time’ football atmosphere to correspond to the investment in facilities that we have made—then—it is the duty of the administration to provide the opportunity to create a game day atmosphere that builds the intensity and enthusiasm for wolfpack football that we all desire—the problem with excess alcohol consumption—a moot point if the administration does their job and becomes solution focused—until we embrace that attitude—we will be pretending to desire to become ‘big time’ in football

  21. Mr O 05/11/2007 at 9:42 AM #

    Even SEC schools are cracking down on tailgating. Georgia, UT, Notre Dame, and others have all made changes.

  22. PackBacker001 05/11/2007 at 9:52 AM #

    “I think if ever there was a crowd who COWered to, is more guilty of, and is probably the ultimate prototype and poster child for, beginning over a decade and a half ago in the year 1990, it is overtly politically correctness run amuck, of the crowd who were in charge back then, and their clone-like predecessors, who are now the mainstay in Raleigh.”

    Huh? That’s a lot of commas, and I can’t make out what the crowd cowered to…

  23. redfred2 05/11/2007 at 10:17 AM #

    PackBacker001, Sorry, I’m famous for incoherent post with run on sentences. I got on a roll on that post. Anyway comma what I meant to say was that the administration never stood it’s ground or even tried to show any resistance to the charges that the NCAA leveled against the program back then. They simply cowered, and no matter who has come along to join the administration since, it seems they all have been just as spineless and all-out “politically correct”, in all of their decision making, as those footsteps they were following in.

    I tried.

  24. lush 05/11/2007 at 10:32 AM #

    “I hope everyone already knows that I’d much rather see a cow, wearing a tailored RED blazer”

    you really are RED aint cha bo!

  25. redfred2 05/11/2007 at 11:26 AM #

    Well lush, I kinda went overboard to get a point across there, but I’d rather embrace the school’s history, then act ashamed and run to hide from it like most people do nowdays. It was just as much the cutting edge of technology as a lot of the computer industry is today. Why shun it to try to fit in with the wine and cheese that was developed at NCSU?

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