Get It Back

SFN Note: We wanted to thank ‘Spin Wolf’ for submitting this fantastic entry to our email at [email protected]. This entry perfectly crystallizes what Wolfpackers over the age of 35 who grew up in the area have been trying to convey to younger generations for years and the feeling that we all share about the future of NC State Basketball now that Sidney Lowe has come home.

“This is what N.C. State does. Throughout history, we’re a basketball school that pulls off big upsets.”

– Brandon Costner, Saturday, February 3, 2007

To many, Saturday, February 3rd 2007 will signify the Wolfpack’s first win over the hated Tarholes in many, many tries. It will be the date that Coach Sidney Lowe bested Coach Roy Williams in their first match-up. It will simply be the date we beat Carolina.

To me, this day is much more. It is the day when I got my beloved Wolfpack basketball team back. Fans whose memories may not go back as far as mine may be puzzled by this comment. Let me explain.

I grew up in the 1970’s and 80’s. In those days, State-Carolina was THE rivalry and Duke was merely an afterthought. We’d watch the ACC Tournament in school on Friday and then almost get into fistfights over whose team was better. Dean Smith was well on his way to earning his status as a legend of college basketball, but there was certainly no great divide between the two programs.

And most true Carolina fans knew that. It was accepted that when State and Carolina faced off, you’d better bring your best game, no matter who was favored, because it was going to be a war. While Dean Smith kept Carolina in perennial Top 10 status and went to numerous Final Fours, NC State was able to keep the pace with both ACC and NCAA championships.

Younger State fans and current students should chew on this: As of 1990, State and Carolina were TIED in the number of national championships won at two each. In ACC championships, Carolina had a whopping one title more than State for virtual parity.

How did State coaches Sloan and Valvano manage to keep Dean Smith feeling the wolves’ breath on his back? Save for the legendary teams of 1972-1975, State never had as many blue chip players. But both coaches had the ability to coach Wolfpack hoopsters into playing beyond themselves. This ability to accomplish more with less (as opposed to less with more..cough..cough..) is the legacy of NC State basketball. At the time of Coach Valvano’s resignation, NC State HAD TO be included in any discussion of great college basketball programs.

And yet for most of the last 17 years, NC State had let that legacy crumble. We had a program that played to the level of talent we had, sometimes less than that, but rarely more. And as a lifelong Wolfpacker, I felt like the program I grew up cheering, loving, and yes – fighting for, had died. We didn’t have the ability to get hot and pull off a run in the tournament. If we beat Carolina, it was because CC Harrison turned into Kobe Bryant for two hours or because Matt Doherty couldn’t coach.

Saturday, Coach Sidney Lowe changed all that.

Lowe coached our extremely thin team to give 110 percent for 40 minutes and match a bench full of McDonald’s All-Americans shot for shot. Coach Lowe knows the legacy of NC State basketball and is instilling it into our players daily. The red jacket, bringing back prominent players of the past, switching up non-conventional defenses are all signs that Coach Lowe knows how to emulate his predecessors and accomplish more with less.

Carolina is still an odds-on favorite to go to another Final Four this year. I’ve still got State penciled into the NIT. But on February 3, 2007, I saw a program that played with tenacity and emotion to overcome tremendous odds and beat our arch-rival. I saw a program ready to embrace our storied history. This day will always be the day that I got my Wolfpack basketball team back.

About StateFans

'StateFansNation' is the shared profile used by any/all of the dozen or so authors that contribute to the blog. You may not always agree with us, but you will have little doubt about where we stand on most issues. Please follow us on Twitter and FaceBook

General NCS Basketball Tradition

114 Responses to Get It Back

  1. Woof Wolf 02/05/2007 at 8:22 PM #

    rockwolf:

    I agree about the fans being satisfied with mediocrity. I was really ticked when we didn’t get rid of Herb in 2001. The only thing in the last seventeen years that upset me more was getting the NCAA bid the next year. I knew when that happened we were going to have him for four or five more years.

    I really respect Herb for finally understanding that he was overmatched. I can not ever forgive the people who didn’t know that or couldn’t pull the trigger five or six years ago.

    It’s not about making it to the big dance. It’s about being good enough to win the big dance. Don’t get me wrong I would love for the kids to get there this year. The sense of achievement and the experience would be great for them and the staff.

    We should get to the place in two or three years where making the NCAAT every year is almost automatic. Anytime you don’t is a really lousy year. Making it and losing in the first or second round is not a great year.

    I don’t expect to get to the Final Four every year. No matter how good you are it takes some luck to go all the way, but we should be good enough to most years to go into the tournament knowing we hsve a shot.

    Someone said last week that 1983 was not all luck and that we were a good team. I totally agree. Sure we got a few breaks during the run and maybe had the golden horseshoe stashed somewhere, but we flat out won those last two games. Even if Derrick’s last shot hadn’t turned into a great pass, we would have gone to OT.

    We opened the next season in the Tipoff Classic without Thurl, Derrick and Sidney and beat Olajuwan and Houston by twelve points. They made it to the National Championship again and lost to Georgetown.

    That’s where we want to be again. When we get there then we can start lookig for another ’74 team.

  2. Woof Wolf 02/05/2007 at 9:33 PM #
  3. PurplePeopleEaters 02/05/2007 at 9:51 PM #

    I agree completely Woof Wolf. This year was supposed to be our “rebuilding year.” If we’re able to win a few more games in ACC play, maybe go .500 at the best and win an ACC tourney game or two, we’ll be a heavy favorite to win the NIT. The amazing thing is that if we have a winning record in our remaning games we could end up being a 10-12 seed in the NCAA in our “rebuilding year”.

    Realistically I think this is what we should expect.

    An NIT bid this year. This is more than likely after our win against UNC.
    A run at the top 4 spots in the ACC next year and a mid to high seed in the NCAA tournament.
    A team that can compete with any team in the country on any given night and is consistently in the top 25.

    Lots of variables from now until then but we have some good pieces in place and we could have a 12 man rotation next year (barring the development of Ferguson and Lewandowski). That is amazing for a 2nd year head coach with an apparent terrible situation after herb left.

    This team is looking up and beating UNC was the first step. Man wolfpack athletics is gonna be a trip in the next few years.

  4. chilly water 02/06/2007 at 12:32 AM #

    Who wants to go into chapel brown hole and leave with a dub, how sweet would that be, sweeping carolina?? Anybody think its possible???

  5. class of 74 02/06/2007 at 6:13 AM #

    Noah:
    With due respect to your solutions on the Valvano matter, it was never in our hands to solve. Our good friends at the N&O saw to that! All the PR firms in the world could not have saved us or Valvano once the N&O decide to run front page lead articles and use their influence with UNC BOG members as well as some state politicians. You get the national media on top of that with Golenback’s hack piece and it was Katy bar the door.

    When we ceeded control of personnel matters over to the UNC BOG it was over IMHO. It was the first time in the state’s history the BOG dictated terms and conditions of personnel contracts and those conditions still exist today. They were involved with the selection of Monteith and Turner ( a UNC grad) and encouraged the Draconian procedures taken by Monteith, Hopfenburg et al. No I don’t agree with the solutions but I do agree with your conclusion of we over reacted and lost control to outside agents which led to near destruction of the basketball program.

  6. noah 02/06/2007 at 10:14 AM #

    Class of 74 — you’re completely wrong.

    Several people at the N&O have told me straight out that they thought they had a pulitzer IN THEIR HANDS the day they started covering the book. By the time they realized that the book was a joke, riddled with errors, they were already on to the real problems (the academics and the point-shaving).

    And you can de-value crisis communications work all you want. That’s exactly what the folks at State did. Your mentality and theirs are perfectly matched for one another. And that’s a deadly combination, I’m sorry to say.

    Look at Tylenol. In September of 1982, some nutbag put cyanide in seven bottles of Tylenol that ended up in stores in Chicago. Tylenol was the largest pain-reliever in the world, they had 35 percent of the global market.

    Johnson and Johnson completely shut down both the advertising and production of one of the most profitable and commonplace drugs in the world. They recalled 31 million bottles of Tylenol. Johnson & Johnson stock lost about 20 percent of its value immediately.

    The company completely overhauled the way drugs are handled and delivered. They invented the tamper-proof bottle and put seals on everything. They INVITED the media to sit in on brainstorming sessions with the R&D folks and with the corporate board.

    They put customer safety first, they were 100% cooperative with the police and investigators, they never spent ONE minute trying to distance themselves from the problem and spent all their efforts on making sure that the problem couldnt happen again.

    In a month, J&J stock had recovered and in a year, they had their market share back.

    We didn’t have cyanide-laced medicine. We had a ridiculous book and we lacked some academic discipline.

    It would have been a cakewalk. Shit, I could have done the PR myself. The N&O wouldn’t have had anywhere to go. What are you going to do? Challenge the paper. Ask them up front why they won’t pay for sources, but they’ll run quotes from people who do. Ask them if they’d continue to pay a reporter who couldn’t get SIMPLE stuff like dates and scores correct and trust that same reporter to get hard things like quotes correct. Ask them why a writer who deduces something as concrete as 25,000 people attending a game at a 10,000 seat coliseum should be able to make any deductions at all about something as ethereal as the integrity of an athletic department.

    Change the story.

    YES, we’ve got academic shortcomings. Here’s what we’re doing to address them. You have to qualify out of high school, we’ll only take X number of academic exceptions. You have to go class EVERYDAY, no skips at all. You have to go to EVERY study hall during your first two years. After that, if you have a GPA above 3.0, you’re allowed to study on your own. You have to make satisfactory progress towards a degree. You aren’t allowed to keep changing your major and taking 100 level classes. We’re putting in an academic support program. We’re hiring strong tutors. We’re just as proud of our graduates as we are of our NBA alums.

    What are Carolina and Dook and Wake doing? I hope they’ll follow our lead.

    Instead, in the year surrounding the book jacket, we recruited: Doug Edwards, Derrick Chandler, Donnie Seale, Gary Mattison, Pancho Hodges and Craig Tyson — all of whom failed to qualify. Craig Tyson was diagnosed with a learning disability so severe that he was denied admission to a JUCO and later got busted selling crack in Arkansas.

  7. Mike 02/06/2007 at 11:09 AM #

    I will most likely be crucifued for saying this, but I will anyway. I think those of you who read this blog on a regualr basis know I am red true and true.

    The book may have had some embellishment but for the most part much of it was true. I was in school at the time, I knew a lot of the players, cheerleaders, friends of players, and I have other “inside” information which I cannot/will not share because I dont want to implicate the innocent. I had inside sources very few had. Yes, Simons had an axe to grind, and he did, and I was not quite inside like Simons was.

    While much of this did occur, it was handled poorly from a PR perspective. We handled it so wrong. The N&O had a lot to do with that, but the job of the media is to create the news, not report the news. Their job is to sell papers. They sold papers – it is our job as consumers whether or not we beleive the rubbish we read in the Noise and Disturber. When we consider the rag is run by UNX commies, of course they will do all they can to discredit us.

    It took longer than it shoudl have, but we are coming back. We will be a force to be reckonded with. And as I have to watch the game Weds night between ESPN College and ESPN U, they will tout this as “THE RIVALRY” in colllege bball. Duck was nothing but a blip on the radar for years – the big game around here was State/UNX, nothing else. While the media has built Duck/UNX to the hype, the players will now understand the rivalry is BACK and will be bigger to the players.

  8. choppack1 02/06/2007 at 1:24 PM #

    Noah – Interesting post. I think that most of the wolfpack nation wanted a change in the academic/character direction of our basketball team. However, most of us also wanted V leading the ship.

    As some of your posts indicate, V was often “out to lunch” when it came to personnell matters. Given the time period, academics weren’t the issue they would later become. Remember, during much of his tenure, there was no minimum SAT score to gain admission. There were plenty of programs that had basketball players who were jokes as students. Ironically, the starters on the team V’s last years – Corch, Monroe, Googs, Chuckie and Avie were decent character guys. I had classes w/ some of the players – and Chuckie always attended class and knew what was going on.

    We did have an open door policy though – and given what was going on in the program, perhaps it was too open.

    It’s a shame – after our ’83 run, there was no good reason to go after academically marginal kids. And after all V did for us, there was no good reason not to give him a chance to win w/ kids who were better students.

    As Noah rightly states – our leadership displayed a stunning lack of it. They cowtowed to the journalists and the eggheads and produced a draconian punishment that was even more damaging to our university than V’s allegations.

  9. noah 02/06/2007 at 2:16 PM #

    It didn’t help when some of the better students in the program were alienated by Valvano and left the program.

    Walker Lambiotte averaged 18 and 17 points per game against Big 10 competition and also managed to get a degree from Northwestern.

    (for example)

  10. gumbydammit 02/06/2007 at 2:39 PM #

    I have to respectfully disagree with much of the criticism of the “open door” at State in the 80’s. I was a freshman at NCSU in 82-83 (no better time and place on earth to be a freshman than that year at NC State!) and the feeling I got from the campus faithful at the time was that we really didn’t care if players were dumb as bricks, as long as they won. That was way back and early (maybe) in the debate as to whether players were STUDENT athletes or hired entertainers. I heard a lot more complaining from faculty back then than I do now (and I am closer to the faculty now then back then) about academically unqualified players taking the enrollment spots for others more desirous of a college degree, but didn’t hear complaints from fellow students. Regardless, I think that the message that Jimmy V received, and heard loud and clear, was “winning is what is important, especially against UNC, and oh, by the way, try to keep them out of trouble”. Jimmy understood he was hired to win. Period. As a student, that was what I understood his job to be. The faculty did, too, though they didn’t like it.

    As for the likes of Washburn, he could have just as easily been UNC’s embarrasment as he was ours. Dean would have taken him in a heartbeat.

  11. class of 74 02/06/2007 at 3:50 PM #

    Hogwash Noah. Frank Daniels and the N&0 weren’t about to stop their pursuit of Valvano’s head for some slick PR move. Valvano was the face of our athletic department and our university, for that matter, at that time. Jim Valvano had become too large and too easy a target for the crowd that buys ink by the boxcar load. I recall my friends in the Duke administration commenting if the N&O did not succeed in Valvano’s removal the Chapel Hill members of the BOG would. I wonder why they, the Dukies, might think such a thing? Mea culpas would not have prevented what took place
    my friend. You are fooling nobody but yourself on that one.

  12. noah 02/06/2007 at 4:21 PM #

    “Some slick PR move”???

    Hardly. You don’t get it. That’s fine. I don’t really expect you to.

    The problem is that most people in charge DONT get it. No one at State did when this happened. Hell, the legal counsel at Johnson & Johnson told the board to deny any and all responsibility.

    I don’t give two ****s what some flunkie at Dook or UNC thinks he could have done. I don’t give two ****s what some idiot on the UNC BOG thinks he could have done.

    If they had followed my plan, I promise you that the BOG would NEVER have touched Valvano. They couldn’t have. It absolutely would NOT have happened. The only way they could have gotten him would have been if they had played the point-shaving card (they tried), but even the FBI couldn’t pull that off. They were on the right track and there WAS a problem, but they couldn’t prove it after their chief suspect/witness got killed.

    And it’s not like I have some magic formula. It’s not hard. This is easy-peasy textbook stuff. If NC State followed my example, no idiot state legislator would blackmail us regarding our schedule. If they brought it up in my company, I would make them cry. And if UVA followed my example, we wouldn’t be stuck with this ridiculous, idiotic and ultimately unprofitable ACC expansion garbage.

    But none of it really matters. You’ve still got a bunch of engineers who think they can handle these problems with sliderules.

  13. class of 74 02/06/2007 at 5:49 PM #

    The flunkies from Duke happen to have been the Provost and Dean of the Divinity School. And we were in casual conversation over how the situation appeared from a distance. Your plan is fatally flawed but that is just an opinion, my opinion. Just as your “plan” is an opinion, your opinion, nothing more.
    I and many others believed the N&O and members of the BOG were hellbent on getting rid of Valvano and sticking it to NCSU in the process. The past 15 years would say they were pretty darn successful, but maybe with Coach Lowe now on board the tables will turn more in our favor. And given the circumstances what better way to stick it to them than with a disciple of Coach V. Some poetic justice and symmetry in the whole affair after all.

  14. Gene 02/06/2007 at 6:44 PM #

    Jim Valvano had become too large and too easy a target

    I read somewhere that he was doing color commentary for college basketball broadcasts during basketball season, while being our head coach.

    The man was everywhere and trying to do everything. He rubbed people the wrong way and got bit by doing so many things.

    Some of the animosity Valvano got he brought on himself; he made himself a target.

    Regardless, I think that the message that Jimmy V received, and heard loud and clear, was “winning is what is important, especially against UNC, and oh, by the way, try to keep them out of trouble”.

    From everything I’ve read about NCSU athletics, academics were not always the focus of our men’s basketball team.

    Valvano inherited this attitude, from the athletics department. The biggest mistake, in hindsight, is when he became AD after Casey.

    There are other examples of coaches of big money sports taking over as AD, like Bo Schembechler at Michigan, and still coaching, but none of them had the kind of fall out from being AD and coach, as Valvano did.

    I really think Valvano wasn’t AD, if any allegations came out, he’d have survived as coach and the basketball program wouldn’t have temporarily castrated itself.

    Being AD and coach, he had no one else, who should share in the oversight of the Athletics Department’s compliance with NCAA rules.

Leave a Reply