Recent Football Recruiting Rankings

Chuck Amato Football Recruiting General49

After Saturday’s debacle (and we aren’t talking about the announcers) we needed to spend our time on some relevant analysis. We didn’t have time to include Boston College or Maryland, but I think that they would fall on the Clemson/Wake Forest side of the equation

…Talk amongst yourselves…

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Chuck Amato Football Recruiting General

49 Responses to Recent Football Recruiting Rankings

  1. GoldenChain 10/23/2006 at 9:17 AM #

    1st, Amato is better with his talent than Bunting is his. 2nd, I always considered T Bowden the CtC of South Carolina however this year he’s proving me wrong. Nevertheless, State has out-recruited Clemson yet has underperformed them. 4th, We need to hire Wake’s coach away from them! One of my sons went to the Groh football camp this summer and his staff is top shelf.

  2. Micky McCarthy 10/23/2006 at 9:21 AM #

    With Clemson’s facilities and upsurge, its a safe bet that they won’t hover in the 20s or 30s in recruiting anymore. They are going to kick ass for years to come. They could easily own the ACC for the next decade like FSU did in the 90s.

  3. Dan 10/23/2006 at 9:27 AM #

    The 2003 year was a good class no doubt, but the thing I dont like about the Scout.com rankings is how heavily quantity is weighted. Look no further than UNC’s class last year.

    For example, in 2003 the average ranking for NC State commits was 2.86 stars and we were ranked 9th. Clemson’s average commit was 2.83. We just had way more commits.

  4. primacyone 10/23/2006 at 9:31 AM #

    I know Wake is playing with a substantial number of redshirt seniors this year that were recruited in 2001. I believe similar numbers exist for Clemson.

    Give CTC the recruits from 2003 that left early for the NFL plus an experienced QB and you have a completly different outcome IMO.

    I know SFN did not put forth an opinion in this thread, but I would not put forth the opinion that the above numbers don’t mean a whole lot for NCSU’s record this year.

    I would put forth the opinion that Wake will be playing with a lot of Redshirt Juniors and Seniors again next year, same with Clemson. But they will both loose a much larger number of seniors than we will.

    I like the way we things are shaping up for this year. I was one of the one’s that was only expecting a 5-6 year this year and was looking to build to next year. Don’t get me wrong-I am still pissed we lost to Akrin and Marlyand, but I am even more hopeful about next year now becuase we appear to be improving in both the starting QB positon and those inline to for the starting QB position.

    If we had our starting seniors from the 2003 class, with a record closer to Wake and Clemson.

  5. RAWFS 10/23/2006 at 9:33 AM #

    T Bowden got a bona fide solid D1 OC and look what it did for their program. I heard him on ESPN Radio Saturday talking about it, and it appears that he’s turned the corner down there. The way it looks this year, Clemson is on their way and their incoming class will on reinforce that. The important Bowden in the ACC would appear to be no longer be Bobby.

    As for “owning the ACC the way FSU did” — let’s not get carried away. VT, Miami, even FSU will have plenty to say about that, and the Wake Forests, the NC States and Marylands will spring upsets on the upper tier from time to time as well. There is a lot more parity between teams in the upper two-thirds of the ACC than there ever was when FSU was running off that string of byes against league competition.

  6. Spin Wolf 10/23/2006 at 9:33 AM #

    Recruiting rankings aren’t an exact science, but you can find some generalities worth talking about. What stands out to me is that the 03 class was ranked 9th in the country (whether they were 9th or not is a whole other ball of wax, but at the very least we can say it was a very good class, full of natural talent) and yet here we are at 3-4 in the year that the 03 class should really be coming into their own to impact the program.

    The fact that they aren’t, is my prime reason why Amato should go. He doesn’t get the most out of his players because he tries to rely on their sheer athleticism instead of teamwork and discipline.

    Grobe on the other hand, reminds me a lot of Dick Sheridan. He gets the most out of the least, and I would be happy as a clam if we could go back to the days of 3 and 4 loss seasons being the norm with decent bowl games. We don’t have to be Top 10 in my book, but can do far better than the mediocre product that Amato is responsible for.

    Having said that, we’re screwed because we have athletic leadership that doesn’t strive for excellence. Look for 5 to 7 win seasons being the norm until Amato decides to hang it up. He’s pushing 60, so maybe that will be sooner instead of later. 8^)

  7. Mr O 10/23/2006 at 9:45 AM #

    Which recruits were in the 03 class that was ranked 9th?

    Our main issue in recruiting has been at QB and unfortunately that position has killed us for two and half years. Personally, I think we are playing very close to our talent level. I don’t see the staff getting more or less than what they should be getting out of our players.

    Grobe is the hot coach right now. Where was all the talk about Grobe the last two yeas when he went 4-7?

    Jeff: I know that you like referencing that record…but, to be fair…the talk about Grobe’s abilities existed 2 years ago just as it does now. This is nothing new. 4-7 at Wake isn’t a horrible record. Particularly a couple of years off of a bowl win vs Oregon. Most people have always thought Grobe is a fantastic coach. It isn’t like this talk is just starting.

  8. joe 10/23/2006 at 9:50 AM #

    How many of those UNC recruits are still there? Seems like about 50% of them are back at home working at Hardees.

  9. BoKnowsNCS71 10/23/2006 at 9:50 AM #

    I think (if you look at the WF and Clemson recruits) is that they red shirted most of their players and are playing a stong slate of experienced Juniors and Seniors (except where injuy required altering that). THey have odler, stronger, and more mature players where others are “filling in holes” with Freshmen and Sophmores — who also tend to make more mistakes, get injured, etc.

    In the case of NCSU and Va — the absence of players plays a role. See Dave Glenn’s analysis of that. UNC due to a lot of dismissals and NCSU die to NFL lure and leaving early causing us to need to fill in the gaps.

    I meant NCSU and UNC but Va has similar problem — 1/3 of recent recruits did not qualify. Team not built up to where it needs to be.

    SFN: Whose fault is it that our coach promises playing time to freshmen every year and doesn’t take a more strategic approach to talent development? This is his SEVENTH year. It isn’t like he couldn’t have bit the bullet in the past and finally started redshirting.

    In fact, he did quite the OPPOSITE just two (or three?) years ago when he ridiculously decided to gamble on the mere the mention that NCAA may allow kids to have 5 years of eligibility. Remember the year he decided to play about half the freshmen class because he was convinced that the NCAA was going to give them all extra years. How did that work out?

  10. class of 74 10/23/2006 at 9:59 AM #

    In football especially, the recruiting guru’s are totally unable to see all of the “talent” leaving their projections as very suspect at best. I would not base too much on the rank of a class or even two.

    SFN: What about 3 classes? or four? or five? Take a look at the Top 20 recruiting programs of the last 5 years and then look at the top 25 rankings. You won’t find very much variation. Why then does everyone always want to talk about the obscure exceptions as opposed to the obvious, long-term trends and correllations?

  11. 94wolfpack 10/23/2006 at 10:05 AM #

    I am no recruiting guru… But wasn’t Marcus Stone a highly rated recruit? Wasn’t Manny Lawson a “2 star” recruit? How much faith can one put into “stars”. I know by and large that a 5* recruit can be considered to be pretty darned good and obviously has performed well enough to gain national attention. However what really is the difference between a 2* and 4*? Maybe a two star wide out had a coach that emphasizes the run (think Parole (sp?) in fayetteville) or had a QB that couldn’t hit the side of a barn. That doesn’t mean he couldn’t be an outstanding wide out.

    Some highly ranked kids bust and some who were not even on the radar shine.

    And how good would the D be this year if McCargo and Tulloch and Williams were still there. To me “stars” are not a definitive measure of how good a program is or should be. Stars are a subjective measure that even Scout and Rivals have a hard time agreeing on.

  12. Cardiff Giant 10/23/2006 at 10:17 AM #

    We have plenty of “talent” as that is measured by organizations like Scout. What we don’t have is a majority of players with grit and determination that characterized the Sheridan era. Mix that with absolutely abysmal coaching, and you have the results shown here.

  13. primacyone 10/23/2006 at 10:19 AM #

    Hey.

    NCSU has just won another National Championship. The NCSU Bass Fishing team just won the NCAA Bass Fishing Championship.

    Nice to know those once die hard NCSU Basketball and Football student fans spent their time effectivly away form the the RBC and CF over the last couple of years practing.

    I’m not being sarcastic. I’m glad NCSU supports the sport, and I could not be prouder that we brought home the Nathional Title. Way to go guys.

  14. Mr O 10/23/2006 at 10:20 AM #

    4-7 isn’t horrible at Wake. But it isn’t very good either especially in back to back years. There was talk about Grobe when he first got to WS and they had one winning season, but there hasn’t been hardly any talk about Grobe for the last several years.

    Bowden was all but fired at Clemson after losing to Wake Forest two years ago. Now we have people talking about turning them back into an ACC dynasty.

    We had low expectations going into the season from most “experts”. Based on what I expected and know of our talent from watching the games, we are playing pretty close to the overall level of talent on our team. Except for some possible issues with our OC, I don’t think we are losing because of poor coaching.

    The defense played well this past weekend. Our offense out-gained our opponent for the 2nd straight week in a losing effort. We lost the last two weeks because a kicker had one of the best performances in college football history and because of 3 turnovers inside of our 20 yard line.

    As Clemson’s experience with almost getting rid of T. Bowden a few years ago, there is a fine line between winning and losing in college football.

  15. Mike 10/23/2006 at 10:22 AM #

    Come on Joe, be nice. 50% of their recruits are not working at Hardee’s. Why would Hardee’s lower themselves to that?

  16. highstick 10/23/2006 at 10:25 AM #

    Clemson, a dynasty? Never gonna happen, they’ll get greedy and end up on probation! They can’t help themselves and Bowden succeeding in this “weakest of all years” in the ACC is a fluke! You can take this one to the bank!

  17. choppack1 10/23/2006 at 10:29 AM #

    “What we don’t have is a majority of players with grit and determination that characterized the Sheridan era. ”

    I don’t think that’s fair at all. Our players have tons of heart, and all evidence I see indicates that our kids work hard all year long. What they do is make too many mistakes. This isn’t a problem of effort, but rather execution….I think I’d say the same about our HC.

  18. Dan 10/23/2006 at 10:39 AM #

    “Clemson, a dynasty? Never gonna happen”

    I have no idea if they can become a dynasty, but who else in the ACC is actually improving as a whole besides Clemson? FSU, Miami, UNC, VT, NC State, Uva, Maryland are all on declines. BC is staying steady. Wake is getting better, but how long will Grobe stay there and where is their ceiling? Calvin Johnson leaves GT next year. Duke sucks in Back To The Future II. Who is going to beat the Tigers?

  19. packpigskinfan23 10/23/2006 at 10:44 AM #

    I think Clemson has something good going on down there, and are going to be among the stronger forces in the ACC for quite a while.

  20. JT 10/23/2006 at 10:52 AM #

    The ACC is totally mediocre. The plan to lift up other teams through osmosis from VT and Miami has backfired. The expansion has hurt the sense of tradition, stretched out the bball tourney sites and actually made the sense of football prestige drop. Now we KNOW ACC fball is half-assed.

    State football is indicative of this trend. Beat a declinging FSU program, a decent BC team, then lose to Wake and an awful Maryland. Whether recruiting ratings are skewed or if CTC doesn’t develop talent or if he recruits in an unbalanced manner, state just isn’t good. Decent yes, but not good. Seems like bball under Sendek without the insanely boring sense of integrity (integrity doesn’t have to be so boring, but Sendek made it so).

    That sums up the ACC as a whole, except for UNC which is horrible. And Duke is simply Duke.

  21. choppack1 10/23/2006 at 10:55 AM #

    I think it’s too early to call the expansion a failure. I think the expansion had to be done and we picked historically the best football schools in the SEC.

  22. choppack1 10/23/2006 at 10:56 AM #

    …sans WVa – who didn’t meet our academic standards. They also aren’t on “the coast”

  23. JimValvano 10/23/2006 at 11:11 AM #

    Part of our problem coming into this year is the over-recruitment of Florida. We go down to Florida and pick up the scraps from Florida St., Florida, and Miami every year and then we expect to be able to compete with these teams with the players they didn’t have a scholorship for. The state of Florida’s recruits are always a little over-rated, but maybe rightfully so as the state has supported three top-tier programs for years. The kids we get from the sunshine state do play hard for us against FSU because they got snubbed, but they don’t understand or care as much as they should about beating our long time ACC rivals and in-state rivals. We need to bring our recruiting base back in…we’ve only landed 1 recruit from the state of South Carolina since CTC took over. We need to recruit in the traditional ACC country for the majority of our players so that we can get guys that understand the traditional rivalry games and get amped up for these games. Sure, its okay to focus attention on special recruits, but it’s hard to build a true contender out of scraps. I do have to point out that our defense has been pretty good since Philip left and that our offense has lacked a good coordinator and leadership. Maybe Tommy Bowden is on to something down at Clemson…hiring a coordinator. Maybe if CTC would start fighting to keep assistants like Doc Holiday and give up some of his massive salary to keep guys like him with the program then we wouldn’t be in such a predicament.

  24. partialqualifier 10/23/2006 at 11:22 AM #

    Dan made a great point about recruiting rankings. Sometimes you can be rated ahead of another team based soley on the number of signees. For example…Five 5-star palyer gives you a rating of 25. 13 2-star players gives a 26. In the end, who actually recruited better?

    Another problem with rankings is they arent position specific. For example, most of States best recruits have been on defense. I think we would all agree that side of the ball has been pretty damn good the last 3 years. State has also done well at running back…and besides a bad case of fumble-itis the last 2 weeks those guys have done OK. Where we have not recruited well is O-Line and QB…which happens to be the main reason we have struggled the last couple of years. So throw the rankings out the door. Hell you can have a very high ranking if you recruited 10 5-star DE’s, but just how good would the rest of the team be?

  25. Wulfpack 10/23/2006 at 11:26 AM #

    I’ll echo the thoughts about this being a laugh-job of a football conference. Let’s start with FSU — they blow. Time for Bobby to go, end of story. And then you have the disgraces in Blacksburg and Miami. Really, it’s Clemson, GT and BC, that’s it. All other teams are average at best. That’s not good for a conference of our size.

    One thing I haven’t heard mentioned is the dismal play of GT against Clemson this weekend. A total collapse.

    I don’t know, it just kind of sucks we can’t take advantage of a piss poor year in the league. When Wake is battling for a class A bowl bid, you know the league simply blows.

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