Did You Really Think the Akron Line Would be -10.5?

'06 Football General50

First of all we don’t gamble, we look at the lines when they are released to get a feel of what Vegas thinks of an upcoming game. Personally, I thought that the line would be NC State-3. So I was suprised to see that NC State has opened as a 10.5 point favorite. For NC State to win by more than 10 points we are going to have to “open up the playbook” and unleash the “lethal forward pass”. Couple other ACC games this week: BC 1 pt fav. over Clemson and VT 11pt favorite over UNC.

'06 Football General

50 Responses to Did You Really Think the Akron Line Would be -10.5?

  1. Mike 09/05/2006 at 10:05 AM #

    I am happy with a W too. BUT……………If your kid comes home with a C on his/her first test, you know there is still time to bring it up to an A. But in the mean time, you still get on him/her to pull it up to an A.

    Only 1 Div-I team threw for fewer yards than we did. The longest pass was the 14 yards to Blackmon, and it was a swing pass that DB made the yards. So what if the receivers were freshman, playing against a D-1AA team should have been a good opportunity to give them experience.

    Following that philosophy, we will give them their first true test against FSU or BC? Give me a break. And for those who said we were ahead in the 2nd half and did not need to pass, did not want to run up the score? We won by 13 points, and at one point in the 2nd half, we were up 16-10. One possession game! That is one silly fumble, a Jay Davis TD pass, muffed punt, or other catastrophe from being down. We did want to control the clock, but to pass this off as an excuse for a no passing game is absurd.

    Yes, I am happy with the W, but I want an A student not a C student. Still time to bring up the grade, but you know I am going to push the kid to study and make the A.

  2. redfred2 09/05/2006 at 10:27 AM #

    Brought over from earlier thread:

    That’s all I’ve been saying. If anyone thinks Stone got a taste of of what’s in store in near the future on last Saturday, they’re sorely mistaken. The time to gamble on your quarterback and allow him to make mistakes is right now and early on in the game. Otherwise, they’ll only be magnified tenfold when facing the likes of FSU. How will his confidence even survive the first quarter against a bunch of blurs swarming the all over the field on the Seminole defense.

    You said it earlier, the kid hasn’t faced anything like it in his 6-1 career.

    I say the first two offensive sets against Akron should have about four pass plays called, and the pass should be used regularly throughout the first half. Then after that, let the chips fall where they may.

    Just to add, I think everyone is happy with the win, and the penalty story was a definite positive for the coaching staff.

  3. noah 09/05/2006 at 10:37 AM #

    I have very serious doubts that Schaeffer could have been academically eligible here.

  4. BoKnowsNCS71 09/05/2006 at 10:46 AM #

    I’ve seen A games in the past where we lost. I know we all want excitment and a better team but we got what we got right now and a W is as good as an A to this blind horse.

  5. choppack1 09/05/2006 at 11:24 AM #

    “I think the criticisms of Trestman are absurd. As are the delusions of “We weren’t trying to tip our hand, so we kept things simple.â€?

    No, Marcus Stone is awful and we wrung every drop of ability out of him that was humanly possible on Saturday and he still only threw for 36 more yards against a 1-AA team than I did.”

    Noah – Something is amiss somewhere. Before Greco transferred, we were scheduled to have 4 QBs here. Is Stone the best passer of the group? Did he outperform Greco and Evans in practice?

    I don’t know – perhaps it’s Amato’s decision, but 36 yards passing is pretty bad – and quite frankly, concerns me more than a little bit. If we had thrown say 12 times and completed 8 of those for 80 yards, I would have been pretty happy. But barely 50% against Division 1AA and averaging what – 6 yards per reception – that’s gotta change.

    I don’t know where the blame lies – and quite frankly I don’t care. I just think we may have a pretty big problem going forward unless our passing game improves dramatically.

  6. BJD95 09/05/2006 at 11:31 AM #

    There’s really not much point in having or participating in a blog if all you want to read/type is “Woo-hoo, we won!” and “Oh damn, we lost!” I think it should be SFN’s mission – and hopefully what makes this an interesting blog to visit – to provide fair, critical analysis. That will necessarily sometimes include discussing positives related to a tough loss, and negatives to a win.

    We covered BOTH the positives and the negatives of Saturday’s game, so I really don’t get how anyone could complain that anyone is being a “whiner.” That’s just silly.

  7. Wolfpack4ever 09/05/2006 at 12:32 PM #

    There is some very insightful criticism on this blog but what’s fair about criticizing Stone for doing what he was told to do? If Stone wanted to bench himself, he should have gone deep when the play call was a possession pass.

    What’s silly is wondering how Stone will do when he plays FSU, like he’s a true freshman pining for his high school sweetheart. Stone was the QB of record when we beat FSU last year. Or did Jay come out and lead the team to that big win?

    Maybe whining is not exactly the right word for some of the gloom and doom hand-wringing here. If that is a problem for the “we” of SFN, I’ll stand down from that contention.

    Chuck credits Stone with one of the biggest plays of the game on the play Baker fumble when he ran down player going in for a score. Make no mistake about it, Stone is a football player who hates to lose. Even in practice he is reported to have “man-handled (somebody) to the ground short of the goal line after a fumble or INT — in practice no less. Stone is no Kyle Wright or (fill in the blank), but he is not the talentless shmuck he has been depicted by some folks here.

    May be I don’t know the rules of blogging, but you can count on this: I will not sit idly by while CHEAP SHOTS are taken at an NCSU player. And I am for sportsmanship in athletics contrary to the stated aversion to such an archaic way of being expressed by some here.

  8. noah 09/05/2006 at 1:19 PM #

    “Before Greco transferred, we were scheduled to have 4 QBs here. Is Stone the best passer of the group? Did he outperform Greco and Evans in practice?”

    I’d say that’s a fair assumption. Greco was recruited because of his athletic ability (his high school passing numbers were unimpressive) and Evans was basically a last-minute legacy recruit. I don’t know if he got another I-A offer.

    I don’t really care if anyone considers my comments on Stone “a cheap-shot” or not. There were multiple games last year where Stone failed to complete a pass in an entire half. His passes are just as likely to end up in the third row of seats as they are to tear up the turf like a nine-iron. He’s easily the worst passing QB I’ve ever seen in an NC State uniform since the one game where Cam Young started against Virginia Tech in 1986.

    Preston Poag and Jose Laureano had weak arms, but they could throw a 15-yard down-and-out. I have absolutely no confidence whatsoever that Stone could do that at all with regularity. Furthermore, I’ve yet to see a single play from Stone where he showed he knew where he needed to go with the ball before the receiver was open. It’s always a wait-and-react with him, which means the defense always has the advantage.

    I shouldn’t have to say this, but yes…Stone hates to lose, plays hard, gives it his all, etc…and those are all noble qualities…but they have absolutely NOTHING to do with his abilities as a passer. Until we implement the wishbone (with our OL, that almost might be entertaining), Stone brings essentially nothing to the table.

    The one thing going for us this year is the incredible weakness of our opponents and the hopes that Andre Brown and Toney Baker can run for 250 yards a game and our defense does have a few playmakers on it.

  9. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 09/05/2006 at 2:01 PM #

    The key to the line is to get half the folks to go either way. They want to make their money on the 10% fee.

    I’m sure they are looking at a mid-major that is on the road against a team on a nice run. I’m sure it will tighten if they need to force more people to take State to get the bets to split down the middle.

  10. redfred2 09/05/2006 at 3:36 PM #

    Noah

    I don’t know how you can be absolutely all over a quarterback who admittedly is not playing too well at all after a limited # of starts for a junior. But then still defending his offensive coordinator who coaches him at practice every day and all through the week. And on top of that shows no confidence in his own chosen QB during a ball game.

    Sounds like the same noise we’ve heard with regards the kids trying to play a simple game of basketball for years.

  11. noah 09/05/2006 at 3:56 PM #

    “I don’t know how you can be absolutely all over a quarterback who admittedly is not playing too well at all after a limited # of starts for a junior. But then still defending his offensive coordinator who coaches him at practice every day and all through the week. And on top of that shows no confidence in his own chosen QB during a ball game.”

    But – but – but he’s 6-1!! He’s going to win the Cy Young award with that great starting record! Cuz starting QBs get wins and losses just like in football. That’s why Shane Montgomery got all those saves in 1988 for his relief work for Charles Davenport.

    Why would I attack the offensive playcalling?? What playcalling has been suspect? Everyone I’ve talked to who was at the game said they saw receivers running wide open all over the place. Was Trestman out on the field blocking the view of those open receivers?

    As far as coaching goes…we’re beyond the point where coaching is going to teach you how to throw a ten-yard out. When you are in your 20s and playing at a BCS conference-school, they aren’t teaching you how to play quarterback. You’re supposed to have mastered that stuff by now. They’re teaching you how to read a masked cover-2 defense. They’re teaching you how to look off the safety and how to spot the linebacker whose dropping into underneath coverage out of the corner of your eye.

    I’m extremely critical of Stone because he’s not having a bad day…he’s just not very good. Jay Davis had the raw materials to play QB in college. He could throw it from here to there and hit the guy in stride. He had the ability to learn and process the playbook. However, he threw too many interceptions (that’s the whole “see-the-linebacker” and “look off the free safety” thing again).

    I would have moved Stone to TE or FB or linebacker two years ago. If he had a problem with it, here’s your letter of release. Go play somewhere else. And yes, I’d be starting Evans or Burke right now.

    Throwing for 36 yards against App. State is sort of like Steve Norton averaging 1.1 points and 1.1 rebounds a game — at Furman. If you are seven feet tall, and you can’t even AVERAGE a bucket a game in the Southern Conference, then the ACC isn’t the place for you. Likewise, if you can only put up 36 more yards against a 1-AA team than ME, then being a starting QB isn’t really your calling.

    It’s like I said about Jermicus Banks heading into his senior year (when he had nine career tackles)….that’s only nine more tackles than I made. One good game and I’ll catch him!

  12. Mike 09/05/2006 at 4:33 PM #

    Stone is 6-1 as a starter. I hate to say it, the 6 games he has won were on the easy side of the schedule. The one tough game admittedly was FSU last year, but Stone was not very good in that game. We won 20-15, thanks to a long run from Brown 30 seconds into the game, and a stifling defensive performance that got us the rest of our points.

    I have said it for over a year now, and I will say it again. Many of us are pointing fingers at Stone. While I have said we need to do better than 36 yards, Trestman is the culprit. I was a big Browns fan when Trestman was there, and he was awful in Cleveland. Trestman has been a bust every place he has been, with the exception of one winning season in Oakland. I said it when we hired Trestman, and have posted on several occasions saying the same thing.

    I will say what I said in an earlier post – we must throw the ball down the field at some point, and what better game than this one to try things. Cant wait until FSU or BC to try new things.

  13. primacyone 09/05/2006 at 4:39 PM #

    Anyone care to guess how many completions Miami’s Kyle Wright had the entire second half last night. Two. That’s it, and an interception.

    Miami lost trying to throw the ball. We won running the ball. Stone did exactly what he was supposed to do on Saturday – Not Lose The Game.

    If you can win a football game against anyone only passing for 36 yards and only trying to pass 3 times in the second half – that’s damn good and damn smart coaching. Safe and conservative, but smart.

    Let um bring 9 to the box. Trestman will have Stone heave one over the top when it is time. Until then, why pass when you can run?

    We don’t have great expectations. A W is a W. Get as many as you can however you can.

    I give Amato and Trestman huge amounts of credit for making the kind’s of adjusments they have made in a effort to get as many wins as possible. If Jay Davis had thrown three less times last year on specific plays we would have had been 9-3 versus 7-5. Three passes lost us two games.

  14. GAWolf 09/05/2006 at 4:53 PM #

    I was at the game and my assessment of Stone’s play is this: If he doesn’t get quicker with his release and better with his timing, he’s a liability to our team not only in that we could lose games but also in that he’s going to get someone killed. Several of his “receptions” were made by receivers who had to completely stop their routes and wait for the ball to arive, or who ran stop routes or curls and the ball wasn’t released until the guy had stopped, turned and clapped for the ball. By the time the ball arrived the receiver was getting pummeled.

    Mark my words, we’ll have receivers dropping like flies if he doesn’t sharpen up.

  15. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 09/05/2006 at 5:39 PM #

    Stone was 7/10 at the half. None of the passes where down field but hell no one picked up any yards after the catch either. Rivers made a career out of the 3 yard pass but he had guys that could pick up 25 yards after the catch.

  16. redfred2 09/05/2006 at 5:44 PM #

    J Davis and M Stone keep coming up as if they are one person.

    ^Can’t sharpen up on game day by handing the ball off. Like I have said a million times already and Mike just posted, it will have to happen sometime. Why not force him to try early it in the game against App St or Akron?

    “We don’t have great expectations.”

    If the coaches don’t care to, can’t force, or don’t think it is necessary for the quarterback to learn how to throw the ball downfield during real game situations, you’re damn right, we don’t have great expectations at all.

  17. Wolfpack4ever 09/05/2006 at 6:11 PM #

    Does anybody here think Kyle Wright wouldn’t trade his stats for a W. Larry Coker sure would.

    BTW I was at the game also, and after a ball was thrown, I looked around and saw other receivers “open” down field. HELLO! When the ball is released the defenders, unlike the receivers, break on the ball. Thus the receivers appear to be open. I also assume that the same “fans” who were observing Stone’s happy feet from the NEZ nosebleed seats (I could barely make his number out) were doing so with one eye while keeping another eye on each of the 3 or 4 receivers while making critical observations about… Need I go on? What the eye sees is not always what the camera sees. And the camera doesn’t lie. Chuck said he thought the defense played better as he watched than later after he viewed the film.

    No, I don’t think Stone is a great passer, but he is probably average. I like our chances with an outstanding D (ours can be outstanding) great running backs, possibly excellent receivers and an average QB who knows how to win and whom his teammates respect and will follow. That won’t get us a national champianship this year, just a respectable season and a good bowl.

    I am one who is more concerned about bloggers who turn a QB who’s team won the the game. Why? For starters it is used against us by rival recruiters. “Hey kid, want to see how the State fans turn on you when you are struggling?” It is a shame that those of us who feel it is important to INTERPRET 39 yards passing as a total disaster, also think it is important to publicly crucify the kid before he has a real chance to show what he can do.

  18. noah 09/06/2006 at 9:06 AM #

    Get over yourself.

  19. redfred2 09/06/2006 at 9:55 AM #

    I’m sure Coker wishes Wright could have completed a just one or two more in the second half. Especially in a nationally broadcast primetime event, against a top ten team and in state rival, one with possibily the best defense in the country, in a game where his team lost late, by three points. But the FSU defense shut down those options down for him.

    I don’t hardly equate the IAA Appalachian State Mountaineers defense with the abilities to limit an offensive coordinator’s options on quite the same level as the Seminoles defense. Maybe some of you guys do.

    We’ll find out soon enough.

  20. Wolfpack4ever 09/06/2006 at 3:14 PM #

    redfred2: At any level offenses are behind defenses the first of September and each coach has his priority list of what needs to be worked on. Sorry if my thoughts were interpretable as “IAA Appalachian State Mountaineers defense with the abilities to limit an offensive coordinator’s options on quite the same level as the Seminoles defense.” I was simply pointing out what App was doing that made long balls more risk than the dinks and screens we were attempting. And that many here were advocating Stone sucks because he and his coaches elected not to be stupid about throwing into coverage.

    I hope BTW that more teams put 9 in the box against our run offense: While the short runs may suffer it makes in all the more easy to break one all the way if you can pop it. I’m sure Blackman licks his chops with nine in the box when he gets a screen behind a good WR block.

  21. BoKnowsNCS71 09/06/2006 at 3:24 PM #

    The line has moved to 10.

  22. primacyone 09/06/2006 at 3:37 PM #

    I don’t hardly equate a Win with a Loss. We did not have a need to pass. We had a need to run out the clock and not turn the ball over so we could get the win against a IAA team with less risk of injury.

    I’m not a big fan of “let’s pass for the practice of it because it’s a IAA team” in a real game scenario.

    And even more so I’m not a big fan of “let’s pass for the practice of it because it’s a IAA team … oh crap, we just threw 2 interceptions that were run back for touchdowns and we lost to said IAA team to start the year off 0-1 …. what the hell are you doing Amato” scenario. Been there, done that last year and lost to Wake and UNC because of it.

    Rutgers ran for 217 yards against UNC. Syracuse only passed for 45 yards against Wake. None of us want John Bunting gone from UNC(HA,HA), but we really want to beat UNC and Wake this year. We may have to pass 50 times agaist FSU and throw 5 interceptions and lose because of it, but let’s RUN all over UNC and Wake and Akron and Southern Miss and ECU and Marlyand and Virginia. I’ll take 8 wins running the football. If we can do that I’ll take the “let’s get a lead, run out the clock with some second and third team subs and get the win for the practice of it because it’s a IAA team” scenario.

    I know none of us like the Mike O’Cain play not to lose game plan, but I think this year playing not to lose is playing to win.

    Hopefully Stone will show some improvement and make us alll happy, but the level of criticism after the first game when he did exactly what he was suppsed to do is too much. He may not have been pretty, but he did not lose the game.

  23. redfred2 09/06/2006 at 5:36 PM #

    ^Wolfpack4ever

    I wasn’t intrepreting your comment in particular, I’m just saying if the coaches can’t try out a new wrinkle against App State, then who?

    ^primacyone

    I’m not blaming Stone at all, the coaches can take him out anytime they please, they must feel totally at ease with the run, it’s there, been there, the players are already there to get it done, why so many times in an OOC game. Sure, give them a workout, but save the backs for when it matters.

    You’re comparing a win against App to in-conference losses against Wake and UNC. The first isn’t much, the other two are absolutely important. What ‘I think’ we’re supposed to be doing right now is trying to develop all aspects of our game before you run into Wake and UNC again. If passing loss the games last year then it needs to be adressed early, not totally denied. Also, this is not about M Stone but any other QB as well, I’m afraid if we’re forced to pass 50 times against the FSU defense that I witnessed the other night, about 45 of them will be picked off.

    I said late last year, stick with the running game, but that was in-conference and when it mattered most, not in early season when players should be facing some challenges from the coaches as far play calling goes. Late in the game, down by three, third and 10 on the FSU 45, needing a field goal to tie, is not the right scenario to pull a play out of your keister and expect a team to pull it off under those circumstances. You have to “practice” something similar in a real game, in front of a major crowd, sometime along the way, before that do or die scenario presents itself.

  24. Wolfpack4ever 09/06/2006 at 10:19 PM #

    Hi redfred2. You say, “Sure, give them a workout, but save the backs for when it matters.” Were you aware that Jamelle Eugene played most if not all of the 4th Quarter. I’m not sure but I think some O-line substitutes were in there as well. Brown was pretty much through midway the 3rd Q and Baker too after his TD drive. Apparently Amato and Tressman thought it more prudent to use the game to develop quality depth on the O-line than assuage the fans fears of Stone’s QB ability. Amato has state his confidence in Stone. I hope to God he doesn’t start coaching the game to keep the fans off his back.

    Does anyone remember that awful yellow s–t, “Tuff Skin” we put on our feet before practice? NCSU coaches need to bath in it.

  25. redfred2 09/07/2006 at 9:40 AM #

    Wolfpack4ever

    Nobody wants anybody to coach in order to please the fans. Period.

    If and when M Stone has all of the weight resting solely on his shoulders at a crucial juncture, and possibly doesn’t come through, I really don’t want to hear anyone still blaming him for it.

    Either take advantage of the early opportunities to teach and make him play his position fully in the OOC, or pay the consequences later.

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