Amato on “Hot Seat” Talk

Here’s the write-up in the N&O. Excerpt:

When asked after practice Monday if he felt like he was on a “hot seat” in his seventh season, Amato quickly replied, “Why should I? No. Why should I?”

Amato noted all the improvements to a renovated Carter-Finley Stadium, noting, “That wasn’t there five, six years ago.”

Then there’s his record. Amato is 46-28 overall in six seasons, with four wins in five bowl games. He is 23-25 in ACC play.

“To build a program you’ve got to win it within the state first,” he said. “And in this state, there are five Division I-A schools. Check the records in the last six years. The second-winningest school in this state has won 30 [UNC]. That’s five a year. We’re two [victories] shy of winning eight a year.

Amato also compared his bowl record to that of the other programs in the state over the past 5 years, but Chip Alexander pointed out a pretty significant factual inaccuracy.

So, what are we to make of this? For one, the fire in the belly is good. The pride in getting the new facilities up and running is well justified. That said, there is alot about the statement that I very much don’t like. And as a proper disclaimer, I am certain that other SFN bloggers don’t necessarily share my opinion. See this link for a very vibrant, healthy discussion triggered by a different point of view.

I really, really dislike so much emphasis on how NC State compares to Duke, UNC, and Wake – consistently the three worst teams in the conference. One would certainly hope that we are better than that. It’s a bridge too far to claim hot seat immunity for not being in the bottom quadrant of the league – certainly over the long haul, such a position is untenable. Just as certainly, the bar is not set by being better than O’Cain (any more than it was for Sendek to just be better than Les). That almost goes without saying – if Amato hadn’t been better than O’Cain, we wouldn’t even be having this “hot seat” talk – he’d be fired already (well, at least under any AD not named Lee Fowler). Long-term (over, say, 7-10 years) we are going to expect more. Fair or unfair, that’s reality.

What is also reality is that our momentum as a program has slipped. Over the past 2 seasons, Amato’s ACC record is 6-10. Over the last 3 years, it’s 10-14. Is that fireable? Probably not. Is it something to brag about? Certainly not. All of the past 3 seasons can be fairly characterized as underachieving, even based on reasonable standards. We did win bowl games in 2 of those years – against arguably the worst bowl participants (Kansas and South Florida) each season. Again, there’s no shame in that, but not really something to crow about. It is, at minimum, an unfortunate failure to capitalize on the special Gator Bowl season. Which is why the next two seasons are critical – it’s time to see a spark of overachievement, or the pattern will be impossible to ignore.

By expecting more – believe me, I understand that the new ACC is tough. There will be ups and downs. Hell, I am even willing to accept that the strong, deep “middle class” of the league means that some years will end in records of 2-6, or even 1-7. But we need to at least periodically compete for at least the division title, and occasionally find ourself in the title game. After all, there are lots of solid teams in the Atlantic Division, but only one bully – Florida State – a team that Amato has had good success against. Having our guanateed annual “rivalry” game against the second weakest program in the Coastal Division (UNC) should also give us a competitive advantage against every team other than Wake, which obviously faces much greater barriers to success than its schedule.

Am I saying Amato is (or should be) on the hot seat? Not really. Ultimately, it’s really just a matter of semantics, because Lee Fowler would rather shoot himself in the groin with a nail gun than hire another revenue sport coach. The whole Sendek fiasco means that Amato can go 2-10, and do his press conference without pants. He’s not going anywhere. That said, it most certainly is fair to ask questions about the status of the program, and to cast a skeptical eye until we see a better product on the field. It could happen this year, or it could happen next year. But Amato needs to produce it, and we (as State fans) need to see it. The honeymoon days of blind optimism are over, and the lingering (if fading, and definitely less prominent) “Cult of Chuck” mentality seems a bit deluded.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

'06 Football Chuck Amato General Media NCS Football

54 Responses to Amato on “Hot Seat” Talk

  1. Wulfpack 08/22/2006 at 7:21 PM #

    “We (the fans) need to accept some of the blame. I’m sorry, but the booing Amato endured on a national stage was embarassing and certainly feeds the dragon. I think the vast majority of State fans support Amato and think he can still be the guy – but we can’t afford to have another repeat of that Thursday night – regardless of our record or our performance on the field.”

    Right on. That was highly disrespectful — a total embarassment to our university. Have some class. It doesn’t do anything to help the situation, just compounds it.

    On another note, frankly I don’t care what the Heels do with their guy. Our ambitions ought to be far greater. Now ff only we could beat those guys…

  2. Micky McCarthy 08/22/2006 at 9:20 PM #

    It sickens me to the core losing to Carolina the last two years. We win those games (as we should have) and we go 6-5 with a bowl in ’04 and 7-5 last year in the regular season. Our 2 year combined league record would be a respectable 8-8, we’d outright own the state in recruiting, and none of this hotseat talk would be going on.

    WE MUST BE THOSE SONS OF BITCHES THIS YEAR, OR HE DESERVES TO BE ON THE HOTSEAT

  3. redfred2 08/22/2006 at 9:40 PM #

    Wulf

    I quoted you earlier,

    “our standard for a successful season is to qualify for a bowl game. Ok, great, Kansas and UConn and UNLV have those same standards.â€?

    (or NC State, and blah, blah, blah, in basketball)

    now this,

    “frankly I don’t care what the Heels do with their guy. (my favorite part>) ***Our ambitions ought to be far greater.*** Now ff only we could beat those guys…”

    Is that the same Carolina, the one that we shouldn’t really worry about even competing with in basketball? I forgot, that long time rivalry between the two close neighbors was built on, and has always been about, football.

    Again it’s football season, yet the people who think about the basketball program exactly same way you do about the football program are considered… hell, I have no idea what you consider us. I have never seen anyone be so boastful about middle of the road in one program, and absolutely demanding better of the other. It’s two sports programs playing under the same NC State University, but held to totally different stands.

    In a word, inconsistency.

  4. JimValvano 08/22/2006 at 10:22 PM #

    Amato is not any better than O’Cain. Here is the proof.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/769/story/343258.html

    I want to get better. After all the “improvements” demanded by Amato upon his hiring…it is only fair to expect “improvements” from Amato.

  5. redfred2 08/22/2006 at 10:23 PM #

    ^different ‘standards.’ typo number 4,678…and counting

  6. choppack1 08/22/2006 at 11:36 PM #

    [quote]And for the record, choppack1, the fans are not to blame for having reasonable expectations of a much-hyped program in a stadium they just paid for. Your support for Chuck is fine but your reasoning is crazy. I’ll bet you wrote the same speech about Les Robinson a few years ago. It was crazy then and it’s crazy now.[/quote]

    Well – you’re showing that you don’t know what you’re talking about and you have also failed to read between the lines.

    1) Anyone who knows me or has seen my posting history knows that I probably actually go overboard criticizing the poor man when it comes to what he did to NC State basketball. But you know what – I never heard him or Herb so lustily booed as I heard Amato booed that Thursday night.
    2) My main area of criticism was the booing of Amato – especially on a national stage. There was no way anyone who saw that could come away thinking good things about NC State – and guess what – it gave that army of idiots all the amunition they needed to attack Amato. This has nothing to do w/ where you stand on him as a coach.

  7. Devon162 08/23/2006 at 1:01 AM #

    I respectfully disagree. I think the fans have a right to boo Amato. What other recourse do they have to express their (quite legitimate) frustration? I see your point that it could hurt recruiting and make our fanbase seem “ugly” to the media. But you know what? Screw the media – they hate us anyway.

    And our recruiting seems to be fine, it’s the coaching once they get here that isn’t up to par. I guess it depends on your allegiance: to the fans or to the perceptions others have of our program. With Lee Fowler in charge, a record that almost perfectly matches O’Cain’s, and thoroughly unmet expectations, I see the fan’s booing as legitimate, regardless of how it makes us look to outsiders. We can agree to disagree. What do you think needs to be done for our program to compete in the ACC?

  8. johnny 08/23/2006 at 1:25 AM #

    JV “Amato is not any better than O’Cain. Here is the proof. ”

    Nice find–very interesting. Considering MOC had to sell pictures of planned improvements for years and CTC was given these improvements
    and an open check book to hire staff, makes one wonder what MOC could have done if he had been given what CTC was given.

  9. Lock 08/23/2006 at 4:12 AM #

    I’m by no means taking a stance yet in the keep-or-drop argument on Amato…but it is interesting following the Cowher job situation while keeping this in mind as context.

  10. Mr O 08/23/2006 at 7:29 AM #

    The season starts in less than two weeks. By the fifth game, we should have a pretty good read on the season, so why not just wait it out and try and have some fun?

    Southern Miss, Boston College and FSU back to back to back should give us a good idea where we stand.

  11. 4PackinMB 08/23/2006 at 7:40 AM #

    Cowher = AD???????…hmmmmmmmm

  12. Wulfpack 08/23/2006 at 7:50 AM #

    ^Red,

    Yes, that is the same Carolina we should strive to compete against in basketball. I do not want to get into a whole other debate — this is about Amato and the football program. All I know is that I have seen a very steep decline in the football program in the past few years. You could argue that at times we haven’t even been “mediocre” in football, given his losing record in the ACC, or the bowl-less season. I respect your comments and can certainly see your point. At the same time, it is my subjective belief that we were headed in the right direction on the hardwood. None of this really matters today — what matters is tomorrow and I and most other Pack fans want and need to see some improvement from the Pack on the gridiron.

    On a side not, take a look at this:

    http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/retro-collegefootball0608.html

  13. vtpackfan 08/23/2006 at 8:45 AM #

    Cowher putting Chuck on the hotseat, I’m still ready for Cowher to push Fowler out. The Steelers owners (Rooney) don’t generally like to pull out their wallet. Could it be that Cowher might have liked what he saw from the Barnes and Calamari incident. I think the general message here is the what ever the expectations, and how much or little somebodys going to crow, little difference in the staff make up and overall record will be made.

  14. GoldenChain 08/23/2006 at 9:31 AM #

    It’s been said before and will be said dozens of times in the next two weeks: if App State can pull off the upset then I look for Chuck’s fortunes to head south quick just from attendance and fan support.
    Don’t think it can happen? Is this App team better than the Furman teams that beat us? Is this Pack team more talented than the ones that lost to those Furman teams?
    50,000 fans booing the coach every time he’s shown on the jumbotron or runs on the field can’t be ignored forever.
    Hopefully it won’t and for some reason I’m actually beginning to feel better about our football fortunes.

  15. primacyone 08/23/2006 at 9:33 AM #

    Devon162^^

    I don’t know about the rest of the readers on this blog, but I would prefer you take your website promotion elsewhere.

  16. redfred2 08/23/2006 at 11:10 AM #

    Wulf

    I appreciate you comment and will say that subjectively speaking, from my viewpoint anyway, the two programs have closely paralleled recently, with football holding a definite advantage in player development and future success.

    Not knocking you for the link, that was interesting, but that is same kind of grading scale that says Michael Jordan was the greatest player in ACC history. It just wasn’t true by a long shot. What they do once they leave college does not have one thing to do with they did when they were there.

  17. Devon162 08/23/2006 at 2:42 PM #

    To Primacyone,
    I’m actually on the outs with the Admin at FireChuckAmato.com but I still like their site. I like this one too. By the way, your Carolina Blue is showing. It’s telling that you don’t like seeing a site that promotes firing Chuck. I may be wrong though.

    I’m being constantly reminded (by everyone) to wait and see how the season plays out (at least the first few weeks) and I think that’s fair. I predict that by mid-season though the Fire Chuck bandwagon may be in full swing.

  18. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 08/23/2006 at 4:10 PM #

    I think we all want Chuck to do well but we may not all share the same level of confidence that he will succeed. I would keep him around unless we have a bad year and BC is interested. Short of that he is doing as good a job as anyone else that would come to Raleigh would do. Amato shouldn’t be let go just so we can go on a fishing expedition to try and find someone better.

    Amato loves the university and if he can do well it would be best for us in the long run so we should hope they have learned from past mistakes and show some solid improvement this year.

  19. JimValvano 08/23/2006 at 5:56 PM #

    I posted this a few days ago. I just wanted to see if I could get better response here. Please note that I think this is a longshot. Oh…and while we’re promoting websites…I’ve got one for everyone to check out. This site has something for all you wolfpackers that like to tailgate and I just thought some of you might be interested. http://www.carolinaglovecompany.com
    I apologize for the cheap website promotion.

    # JimValvano Says:
    August 21st, 2006 at 7:26 pm

    This is off topic, but only slightly as it does pertain to football. Furthermore I don’t mean to start rumors or ruin the chances of my theory happening. Next I would like to say…it’s just a theory and I’m even willing to say that it is very much not likely to happen. With all that said, here goes…
    I am wondering if Chuck Amato is a lame duck. Maybe Fowler actually has a bit of a plan. I know our football team’s outlook for success is being estimated and prognosticated by many “experts� as being highly unlikely. Unfortunately…I agree. Even more unfortunately…I’m excited about it. Why? Well, I think that there are two criteria Amato must accomplish in order to keep his job. 1. Beat the Tarholes 2. Make a bowl game
    If he fails in either of these categories…he is fired. Unless he loses to the Tarholes, but we go 10-3. Now, here is where my theory gets interesting and my excitement gets justified. If Amato gets fired (yeah right…like Fowler knows how to fire anybody), then there is a coach that will be available who happens to be an alumni. This coach is highly successful and highly recognizable. Now this may just be wishful thinking, but…if the stars, sun, moon, and planets all align themselves just right…maybe we’ll go from Chuck the Chesticles to… … … Cowher the Chin! What?!? Have I lost my mind? Probably. But, think about it like this…Cowher’s contract negotiations have broken off with the Steelers and this is the last year of his contract, Jerome Bettis says that Cowher is a changed man with his recent Super Bowl victory and he expects him to get out of the NFL, Cowher’s wife and kids live in a house in…Raleigh, he would be a football coach without a contract, and he could finish his career where it started…at NCSU. This all may be absolute craziness, but I must say…the thought has been on my mind since I heard Cowher was most likely done with the Steelers after this year. I certainly don’t want to turn this into a Rick Barnes situation and ruin our chances, but I am hopeful that there is an outside possibility of this happening. Has anyone else had a thought like this cross their mind? Or am I alone on this theory?

  20. Mr O 08/23/2006 at 9:51 PM #

    Amato and his staff aren’t as high paid as people think. We aren’t near the top of the league anymore in terms of assistants pay and as far as I know the only coaches in the league that make less money than Amato are Tom O’brien and Duke’s coach.

    Additionally, while we have spent some money on our facilities, we have done most of it off of loans and revenue streams guaranteed by lifetime rights that most Wolfpack fans haven’t paid off yet. Additionally, the amounts of money are great for such a short time period, but not that great considering we put very little into the football program for so many years.

  21. Micky McCarthy 08/23/2006 at 11:06 PM #

    Adding to Mr. O’s comments, our fanbase has been snowjobbed into thinking we have the greatest facilities in all of college football. We don’t. They are top 20 competitive, but check around the SEC and you will find the total package at virtually every school sans Vandy, Kentucky, and the Mississippi schools. FSU, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Virginia, all have better total deals now and Miami has inherent geographical advantages.

    With all of that being said, our new facilities should warrant a consistent top 20 team, and we have finished a season there one time in seven years.

  22. choppack1 08/24/2006 at 9:01 AM #

    MM – Would you say that are facilities are in the Top 20? Is our attendance in the Top 20?

    As for Cowher – let’s not go through this again – why would he want to coach college ball where the rules and red tape is much thicker than in the pros?

  23. Cardiff Giant 08/24/2006 at 10:05 AM #

    “I’m sorry, but the booing Amato endured on a national stage was embarassing and certainly feeds the dragon. I think the vast majority of State fans support Amato and think he can still be the guy – but we can’t afford to have another repeat of that Thursday night – regardless of our record or our performance on the field.”

    Yes – but we were already an open laughingstock on ESPN well before the booing took place, as we all know. Secondly, the booing was the direct and proximate result of Amato’s own arrogant and clownish behavior coupled with a team that was grossly undisciplined, poorly coached, and apparently unmotivated. Those are the facts.

    That booing was a watershed moment for the Amato program. I honestly think Amato had hubrised himself into thinking that he was beloved by the fans despite his noxious habit of criticizing them after a loss – as if poor attendance at a “Walk of Champions” was responsible for Jay Davis’s poor decision-making and cheering on offense was the reason Derek Morris couldn’t stay onsides with a gun to his helmet.

    The booing, distasteful as it was, constituted a needed INTERNAL eye-opener for Amato and the powers that be – a signal that we, the fans, had had enough of his antics.

  24. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 08/24/2006 at 11:12 AM #

    As for Cowher – let’s not go through this again – why would he want to coach college ball where the rules and red tape is much thicker than in the pros?

    I would guess because he loves football, NC State and just built a 2 mil house in Raleigh. He is still young and being the head football coach at NC State isn’t all that bad a job. College ball may come with more rules and red tape and less money but no where near the media attention and stress that he has to live with in the NFL. In the NFL he is expected to win another championship at State an ACC title would be huge.

    Then again, he may choose to become the next John Madden and spend the next 25 years in a climate controlled booth. The spoils of winning the Super Bowl.

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