Davis Won’t Play for State

Since most of the readers of StateFansNation (“The graduate level NC State Website”) are a little more experienced in the real world than the readers of other sites…let’s play a little “real world” hypothetical this morning —-

Let’s assume for a moment that you own a company.

One of your account officers makes a key sale for the company. In the sale the new client signs a contract committing the client to provide certain services for the next four years. You are restricted by law to having less than fifteen clients at any one time, so the commitment of the new client is very important.

After the new sale is signed, sealed and delivered and you have begun making arrangements and planning around the new client, the account officer who signed the deal accepts leaves your company to accept a new job with a competitor.

The new client, who signed his/her contract with YOUR COMPANY – not the account officer – suddenly claims that they are uneasy with their agreement and would like to take their business elsewhere.

Question: As a prudent manager of your business, do you allow the new client to freely ignore his commitment and simply waltz into the horizon without exercising any of the penalty clauses availability to you in the signed contract?

FORMER NC State recruit, Larry Davis, has decided to forego his commitment to NC State and join Seton Hall and their new coach, Bobby Gonzalez. (Link)

In the summer of 2005, the 6-foot-3 shooting guard who played at New York’s Christ the King High School committed to N.C. State, the first school he had visited.

“I really don’t know coach Lowe,” Davis said. “He’s not going to be here in June. It’s just not good going into a new thing like that, not knowing what you’re getting into.”

Davis is a nice player who barely averaged 14 points a game in high school and was barely ranked around the #100 HS players in the country. A case could be made that if Larry Davis is playing signficant time for NC State in three or four years, then our program isn’t where it will need to be or where we hope that it will be.

The big issue around this situation now is NC State’s (yet to be determined) decision to grant Davis a full release or a partial release where he would be required to sit out a year before becoming eligible to play at Seton Hall. In recent years, the NCAA has been more lenient in allowing petitioning players to transfer without having to sit out a year.

But…from NC State’s perspective…Is there really a choice here?

OF COURSE State should only grant a partial release and make the kid have to go through the NCAA’s appeals process to be allowed to play immediately.

From State’s selfish perspective:

* The kid didn’t even afford Sidney Lowe the opportunity to meet with him face to face. (Does Seton Hall really have that many other kids right now to whom they are trying to give this extra scholarship?)

* Also, it was pretty evident, even mistakenly printed in local newspapers in New Jersey, that Seton Hall was illegally contacting Davis long before NC State granted him a conditional release to talk to other schools.

It is UNACCEPTABLE that NC State would support this kind of behavior from the kid and from Seton Hall by just rolling over and being complicit in this bullshit.

But, there is a lot more to this and Larry Davis.

Human beings react to incentives; give someone enough incentive or disincentive and you can create the behavior that you desire. (See Freakanomics). NC State MUST be smart enough here to signal to Dan Werner or Dennis Horner that DISINCENTIVE EXISTS FOR THEM TO CONSIDER BACKING OUT OF THEIR LETTERS OF INTENT.

Most schools do NOT give kids that sign with them a change of heart because of a coaching change a full release. NC State should not either. If they want to go so badly, then let them all know that they will have to go through the hassle, the time and the process and deal with the NCAA for a full release.

Basketball Recruiting General NCS Basketball

95 Responses to Davis Won’t Play for State

  1. Dan 05/26/2006 at 5:25 PM #

    “Human beings react to incentives; give someone enough incentive or disincentive and you can create the behavior that you desire. (See Freakanomics). NC State MUST be smart enough here to signal to Dan Werner or Dennis Horner that DISINCENTIVE EXISTS FOR THEM TO CONSIDER BACKING OUT OF THEIR LETTERS OF INTENT.

    Most schools do NOT give kids that sign with them a change of heart because of a coaching change a full release. NC State should not either. If they want to go so badly, then let them all know that they will have to go through the hassle, the time and the process and deal with the NCAA for a full release.”

    Lol. The coaching staff has been in place for a few weeks, and some people are already second guessing them and, basically, screaming at them. Lets not prove the pundits right.

  2. Sam92 05/26/2006 at 6:16 PM #

    if we don’t give Davis the release, we look like pigs picking on a high school kid

    down the road, when a red hot recruit is torn between n.c. state and another top program, having punished a kid for wanting to de-commit after a head coaching change will hurt us

    this is one of those situations where we have the right, but we shouldn’t exercise it

  3. redfred2 05/26/2006 at 6:52 PM #

    ^Wulfpack

    I am not flip flopping in the least. I expect the rules to be the rules. If someone wants to break them they should be punished. On the other hand if someone forego the rules and wants to give up all of the part that a body of universities has put together to specifically to protect them, I say BS.

    Go ahead and right the next five years off as rebuilding and forget about it.

  4. redfred2 05/26/2006 at 7:12 PM #

    I’m not thinking straight, and I am not thinking about the young kid’s future. You guys are right, NC State could not hold a candle to what this kid can expect at Seton Hall, we shouldn’t even bother trying to convince them otherwise.

    That is because we are keeping the kid’s best interest in mind of course.

  5. metrowolf 05/26/2006 at 7:12 PM #

    What State should do:

    1) Grant the kid a conditional release.
    According to the LOI, the candidate EXPLICITLY acknowledges that he is signing WITH THE SCHOOL, not the COACH. The candidate may request for release due to hardship, but again the LOI EXPLICITLY states that a change in coach is NOT an acceptable reason. There is a nebulous out “for other reasons” and, as I understand it, that’s what sometimes is claimed.

    2) Request that the NCAA investigate Seton Hall
    If indeed SH violated recruiting rules, remember here that Sid can’t talk to players until he passes the NCAA exam, then Seton Hall should be sanctioned.

    What will happen: Absolutely nothing
    State’s in a no-win situation here. If we do anything less than a full release, the same vultures who wrote negative article after negative article will castigate State for picking on some poor defenseless kid who only wants to play ball. Never mind that he (and his legal guardians) did not live up to their agreement(s) (more than just the LOI), AND that SH cheated. Doesn’t matter. If State DOES give the kid a full release, those same pundits will mock State for losing their coach, getting a loser coach (not my sentiments), and losing their players.

  6. Rochester 05/26/2006 at 10:03 PM #

    It’s called a “conditional release” for a reason. There’s a condition. The condition was that the kids would wait and meet Sidney, then decide. That’s not asking too much. I think if they met that condition and decided they really wanted to go elsewhere the full release was a formality. Davis didn’t meet the condition. I don’t want to be hard on the kid, because I acknowledge he is a kid, and God knows what I’d have thought when I was 18. He’s not necessarily to be singled out or made a case of. But if that was the condition he should have at least played along. He didn’t. I say make him sweat a little, then cast him loose. We don’t look bad in the end and we don’t keep someone locked up who didn’t want to come to Raleigh. But four years from now, when we crush Seton Hall in the first round of the NCAAs, don’t feel sorry for Larry.

  7. packman2006 05/26/2006 at 11:37 PM #

    It wouldn’t be the NCAA investigating any possible violations. They would only be violations of the LOI program, and they would enforce them (by doing such things as kicking SH out of that program). As to Lowe, he can talk to the parents of the players or he can talk to the players if they call him, but he can’t directly call them himself. So he hasn’t broken any rules. The request he made was to be able to speak to the kids directly. And I agree that we should enforce it, but I don’t think that we will.

  8. vtpackfan 05/27/2006 at 12:26 AM #

    Hopefully Davis, Towe, and Strickland can meet with Lowe, or atleast get some direction on this issue and make a public statement. Even though the common denominator from NC States former and current baketball happens to be the AD, we can’t expect him to be ahead of this.

  9. redfred2 05/27/2006 at 1:04 AM #

    “down the road, when a red hot recruit is torn between n.c. state and another top program, having punished a kid for wanting to de-commit after a head coaching change will hurt us”

    GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK!

    Going totally by the rules is now considered to be PUNISHING a kid. Asking a kid to go through the proper channels is something that will come back to hurt NC State.

    Once again, why did T Ferguson sit out for a year?

    This is why, everyone was just following the rules as they were written, and for the purpose that they were written. Following them to a tee, like they were meant to be. There were no bad guys anywhere in the picture.
    The rules were written to protect both sides. I do not think that one side asking the other to live up to their side of the agreement, in the proper timeframe that is allowed, is anything but proper.

    I’ll tell you what, lets stop keeping score, no more fouls or penalties, and declare everybody a winner from here on out.

  10. tractor57 05/27/2006 at 9:29 AM #

    I admit to being a little perplexed over this issue. I really don’t want a player who could be a “cancer” on the team but I think State should defend it’s interest. That being said I really don’t have a problem with Davis sitting out a year if he decides to transfer.
    And I don’t think Seton Hall is an “innocent party” to the whole afair.
    That being said I think in the end it really doesn’t matter much (short term maybe, but long term it’s a wash).
    “You take your chance and makes your choice” (sort of like life in general).

  11. redfred2 05/27/2006 at 10:46 PM #

    “but I think State should defend it’s interest.”

    That’s all anyone is asking.

  12. Jeff 05/28/2006 at 9:24 AM #

    “down the road, when a red hot recruit is torn between n.c. state and another top program, having punished a kid for wanting to de-commit after a head coaching change will hurt us�

    Someone has to explain this to me. It makes no sense.

    I’m curious why we would WANT to be chosen by a kid who is concerned about his ability to change his mind easily in the future?

    WHAT IS BEST FOR NC STATE’S BAKSKETBALL PROGRAM?

    ^ That is all that matters.

  13. Jeff 05/28/2006 at 9:29 AM #

    Man, why does everyone want to be so hard on a young man who committed to a program because he wanted to play for a certain coach? He has decided he doesn’t want to play for NCSU so we are going to punish him for it?

    Just curious…if Brandon Costner raised his hand and decided he doesn’t want to play for NC State and he wants to play for another coach, should we also ask the NCAA to waive their rules and not make him sit out a year?

    What about Cedric Simmons? or Gavin Grant?

  14. Wulfpack 05/28/2006 at 9:53 AM #

    “Going totally by the rules is now considered to be PUNISHING a kid. Asking a kid to go through the proper channels is something that will come back to hurt NC State.”

    I’m not sure it’ll come back to hurt us. But I do think this is unfair to the kid only b/c NCSU changed the terms. The coach that recruited him left and we hired a coach that isn’t allowed to run his program until he satisfies the necessary obligations. I tend to agree that you do what is always best for NCSU. In this business, it has to be student-centered or else the student can easily turn against the coach or the team and be a cancer.

  15. Jeff 05/28/2006 at 10:55 AM #

    ^ That is why the Letter of Intent is signed with the school…not the coach. Not terms changed.

  16. redfred2 05/28/2006 at 11:34 PM #

    “this is unfair to the kid”

    That is where you are sorely mistaken. Signing a LOI is nothing to be taken lightly. The kid, his parents (adults), and his high school coach (adult) were all involved in making this major decision with him.

    People who think the way you do can denigrate a Letter of Intent down even further and make it meaningless a waste of time for all recruits and universities in the future. I like the rules and how they are set up to protect the young kids, and the university as well. I think it is a worthwhile process and it should mean SOMETHING. If not, do away with it altogether.

    Let’s water down every legal document to make some people happy, where they means absolutely nothing and so we can let people off without so much as a word.

    Lee Fowler needs people who think like you to ensure an easy road to retirement.

  17. Wulfpack 06/05/2006 at 4:04 PM #

    There’s no question what the smart, and ethical, thing is to do here. HE DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY FOR N.C. STATE NOW THAT THE COACH THAT HE WAS GOING TO PLAY FOR DECIDED TO LEAVE. Put yourself in this kid’s shoes and you might see the real issue here. Due to unfortunate circumstances, he cannot even meet with his coach. I’m sorry but I don’t fault the kid, his high school coach or his parents.

  18. redfred2 06/05/2006 at 5:07 PM #

    I don’t fault the kid, just what he was sold on.

  19. Wulfpack 06/05/2006 at 7:15 PM #

    Then grant him a release and allow him, and NCSU, to move on with life. Bitterness gets you no where. Sidney will certainly find a spot for someone else.

  20. redfred2 06/07/2006 at 4:43 PM #

    I’m not bitter at all, if the kid really decides to leave AFTER hearing all sides from NCSU, I don’t have any problems at all, and I wish him well.

    I’m just not going to thrown in the towel when it isn’t necessary or expected, and well before any competitive minded and winning program would do so.

    Am I wrong or is recruiting competition is still in play elsewhere at this very moment.

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