Is Fowler Talking Lavin?

About 4 or 5 years ago when Lee Fowler was still relatively new to his position at NC State, a friend of mine whom Fowler knew well had the ‘pleasure’ of spending some time with Fowler. We will call my friend, Mr. X.

(Quotes are paraphrases here since I am only relaying a story from a friend).

Once while having a casual conversation, Fowler hypothetically asked Mr. X, “If Herb wasn’t the coach at NC State, who do you think would be a good replacement?”

Mr. X was excited by the opportunity to have the conversation and casually responded with the obvious fully expecting Fowler to already understand, “I don’t know. I think that most NC State fans think Rick Barnes is a real good fit. State fans have always liked Barnes.”

Imagine Mr. X’s surprise when Fowler responded, “Rick Barnes? The guy at Texas? Hmmmm. I don’t know much about him.”

Mr. X then went on to explain a little about Barnes is NC roots, and his time at Clemson, and of course his standing up to Dean Smith.

After these comments, Fowler then threw out, “What about Steve Lavin? I’m impressed by Steve Lavin and think that he’s getting mistreated at UCLA.”

(At the time Lavin was stil the head coach at UCLA. Despite making 6 straight NCAA Tournaments and five sweet 16’s, Lavin was ultimately relieved of his job after 12 years on the Bruins staff his first losing season (10-19) in 2003. Of course Fowler thought that Lavin was being mistreated; Fowler would have given Lavin a job for life)

When I was told of this story years ago, I just shook my head in horror (and fear) that Lee Fowler may one day execute a coaching search for what will end up being the most important hire in NC State Basketball history.

However, in light of this exchange, you can imagine how unsurprised I was whe Pack Pride’s “Coaching Scoop Update” included a picture of Steve Lavin this morning.

I am going to refrain from saying too much more about Lavin. But, you can take a peak at this link for a little more perspective.

I will leave you with just a couple of general thoughts related to the topic:

(1) Fans have a very bad habit of simply taking a coach’s overall record and latching on to it as if it would be transferrable to other jobs. Steve Lavin had one of the five best basketball jobs in AMERICA. His numbers look generally pretty good when you look at them without framing them against the backdrop of his resource base.

But, UCLA is UCLA…with little competition on the west coast; not to mention that Lavin inherited the program not too long after they won a National Championship. You need to analyze coaches in comparison to what they have done with their resource base. Lavin managed to go 10-19 in this sixth season (whatever happened to building a program?) .

(2) Lavin has been trying to get back into coaching every year since he was fired by UCLA. Nobody has hired him. There is a reason for that. Even more troubling is the fact that despite Lavin’s experience as a top assistant coach at Purdue during Gene Keady’s best seasons, Purdue chose not to offer their job to Lavin when Keady announced his retirement a couple of years ago.

In the end, NC State needs to pay special attention to its brand management (which is something that Lee Fowler’s acceptance of poor performance and years of arguing with the fanbase indicates he can’t comprehend.) Why would NC State want to hire any coach that couldn’t get the job done to the standards of other schools?

Post-script – Read the first comment below for some statistical nuggest of Lavin’s “achievements” while at UCLA.

General NCS Basketball

69 Responses to Is Fowler Talking Lavin?

  1. db321 04/07/2006 at 11:01 AM #

    ^ I sincerely hope you are wrong! From what I’ve read so far, Brady is the biggest question mark among Gillispie, Haith, and Brady.

  2. SaccoV 04/07/2006 at 11:04 AM #

    My personal preference is Gillespie. I hear that he’s the son of the ficitional Chief Gillespie from In the Heat of the Night. Good choice.

  3. 74brickyard83 04/07/2006 at 11:06 AM #

    “I’m starting to think it’s going to be Brady. He’s a good coach, if a bit weak on recruiting. Hopefully the NC State brand will help him a bit in the recruiting department, and we’ll be able to take off in the next few years.”

    I’m not sure I see how the NC State brand would help a coach’s recruiting. I was hoping a coach would come in with strong recruiting to help counter the dook/unx magnets. I thought Barnes cited recruiting difficulties as one reason he didn’t come here.

  4. booman group 04/07/2006 at 11:08 AM #

    got this off the blog on 850.. sure hope we don’t go the Brady route:

    “On a sidenote, AD Lee Fowler spoke with NC State’s Student Senate last night. Technician has the story (3rd Floor ‘Spoon, Holla!), including an interesting exchange during the meeting:

    Midway through the forum, Fowler took out his phone and said he had received four messages since he arrived at the chambers. He said he needed to check to make sure it wasn’t his 16-year-old daughter calling.

    “Does anyone know what area code 225 is,� Fowler said.

    As it turns out, “225″ is an area code used in Baton Rouge, La., and the area code for Louisiana State University.”

  5. site admin 04/07/2006 at 11:13 AM #

    If we have to go “down market” then we would support Gillispie over Brady 99 out of 100 times.

  6. SaccoV 04/07/2006 at 11:28 AM #

    I was going to make a joke about the Brady Bill and a wheelchair but thought it in poor taste.

  7. scoots 04/07/2006 at 11:37 AM #

    I too would prefer Gillispie, who has a shorter but, in my opinion, more impressive record than Brady. Aside from Brady’s nice run this year, his overall performance has been very mediocre & we’ve had enough mediocre recently. That is, if we can’t get (or won’t go after) “A” list guys Calipari & Tubby.

  8. booman group 04/07/2006 at 11:42 AM #

    I thought those two guys (Calipari and Tubby) were still on the short list. What happened to cause Folwer to change direction, so it seems, and pursue Brady? I hope it’s not because of what LSU did to Duke and UT in the NCAAT.

  9. db321 04/07/2006 at 11:47 AM #

    ^ LMAO. I’ve heard Calipari is still on the short list, but is being examined closely as to whether he should be officially considered. I think Tubby is no longer under consideration. I’m not sure if that is because of his performance, cost, or interest.

  10. GAWolf 04/07/2006 at 11:48 AM #

    I’d rather have Gillespi or Brady over Lavin. I’m still praying for Calipari, though. Please, oh please land Calipari. Otherwise, things will get even worse for the University throughout the national media.

  11. GAWolf 04/07/2006 at 11:51 AM #

    No Tubby. I knew his sons when they were at UGA and I watched many a UGA game on the front row by slipping into the empty Colliseum through the athlete’s trainer entrance. I was never impressed with Tubby. Ever. I can see why UK fans think he won his NC with Petino’s leftovers. It’s the truth.

  12. Jason2413 04/07/2006 at 11:57 AM #

    I don’t want Brady. His team is stocked with backyard players, we need a big time national recruiter. Let’s face it, any elite caliber players in our backyard are going to be recruited by UNC and Duke, we need someone who can knock heads with them.

    This is also why I was not completely sold on Barnes, and am currently skeptical of Gillespie. Haith at least seems to have the recruiting track record to go with a national approach. He’s pulled in some good players at Miami, not the easiest place to recruit to. Most of his **** players according to Scout are from Florida, true, but he’s brought in one from NC and one from Ohio also.

  13. Jason2413 04/07/2006 at 12:02 PM #

    Crean was contacted and said thanks but no thanks. According to Taylor Zarzour I believe, but it was in a news article I read.

  14. scoots 04/07/2006 at 12:06 PM #

    Just look at Brady’s record. Only 99-87 at Samford, including 3 losing seasons & 3 winning ones w/ best overall record of 19-9. Prior to this season, he was only 140-102 in 8 years at LSU. He had a great year (28-6) in 2000, but dropped back to 13-16 in 2001 and did no better than 21-11 or 20-10 w/only 2 NCAA appearances in the 5 years after 2000. Compared w/ Herb’s 63-26 at Miami & 191-132 at NCSU, I’m not sure he would be a significant improvement.

  15. BladenWolf 04/07/2006 at 12:26 PM #

    I just cannot believe how quickly we’ve gone from talking about “A” list coaches like Barnes and Calipari to discussing “B” coaches like Haith and Brady, or even “C” coaches like Gillespi and Lavin.

    You guys have the records and statistics down pat. So you all can see the differences. (I love this site!!)

    I knew my initial optimisim would be ill founded. I should keep reminding myself of the fine institution from which I graduated.

    However, when your freshman year was 1983… you never give up… never ever give up!

  16. Jason2413 04/07/2006 at 12:26 PM #

    Oh, I also don’t want Steve Lavin.

  17. Mr O 04/07/2006 at 12:53 PM #

    Guys, at this point every candidate we are going to look at will have some weaknesses. Barnes, Calipari and Wright were the only three candidates that 100% of wolfpackers would have been happy with.

    You got to be realistic about this IMO. Lavin has some positives as well. He was a very good recruiter and a great personality. He would need a strong X & O guy on the bench with him, but he could very well be a great head coach the 2nd time around.

    He is still very young and he was essentially a kid when he took the UCLA job.

  18. wolfydave 04/07/2006 at 1:00 PM #

    Brady has more current issues than Cal…

    he’s been rumored to be involved with this JC scandal that got the Iowa State coach canned…

  19. RAW 04/07/2006 at 1:04 PM #

    No Steve Lavin, please.

    What was Lavin’s overall record at UCLA? Isn’t it comparable to Herb’s last 6-7 years? Isn’t that what we are trying to get away from?

    It just sounds to me like all of Lavin’s positives match Herb’s positives.

    He has a nice head of hair however…

  20. Mr O 04/07/2006 at 1:18 PM #

    It is amazing how people can post statistics to prove whatever they want.

    http://uclabruins.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/lavin_steve00.html

    Steve Lavin is one of just two coaches in the nation, joining Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski, to have led his team to five NCAA ‘Sweet 16s’ in the last six years (2002-01-00-98-97). In Lavin’s six seasons as the UCLA head coach, he is 10-1 during the first two rounds of the NCAA Tournament, including an unbeaten 5-0 record in second round games. Since John Wooden’s retirement 27 years ago as UCLA’s head coach, Lavin is the first Bruin head mentor to lead UCLA to three consecutive NCAA “Sweet 16” appearances (2002-01-00).

    Steve Lavin is one of just two coaches in the nation, joining Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski, to have led his team to five NCAA ‘Sweet 16s’ in the last six years (2002-01-00-98-97). In Lavin’s six seasons as the UCLA head coach, he is 10-1 during the first two rounds of the NCAA Tournament, including an unbeaten 5-0 record in second round games. Since John Wooden’s retirement 27 years ago as UCLA’s head coach, Lavin is the first Bruin head mentor to lead UCLA to three consecutive NCAA “Sweet 16” appearances (2002-01-00).

    Steve Lavin is one of just two coaches in the nation, joining Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski, to have led his team to five NCAA ‘Sweet 16s’ in the last six years (2002-01-00-98-97). In Lavin’s six seasons as the UCLA head coach, he is 10-1 during the first two rounds of the NCAA Tournament, including an unbeaten 5-0 record in second round games. Since John Wooden’s retirement 27 years ago as UCLA’s head coach, Lavin is the first Bruin head mentor to lead UCLA to three consecutive NCAA “Sweet 16” appearances (2002-01-00).

    In his six seasons as UCLA’s head coach, Lavin, 38, owns an overall record of 135-59 (69.6, 194 games) and a Pac-10 mark of 74-34 (68.5, 108 games). Lavin’s first contest in the 2002 NCAA Tournament was the 350th game of his Bruin career (dating back to the 1991-92 season). His win over Villanova (93-65, Jan. 13, 2001, Pauley Pavilion) was the 100th of his career and he reached that total the second-fastest in school history (142 games), trailing only Jim Harrick (136 games). UCLA’s win over Maine at the 1999 Pearl Harbor Classic was Lavin’s 75th victory of his Bruin head coaching career, reaching that plateau faster than any other coach in school history (102 games). The Bruins’ win over DePaul early in the 1999-00 season at Pauley Pavilion was Lavin’s 200th as a member of the Bruin staff. Lavin won the 50th game of his Bruin head coaching career on Nov. 26, 1998, beating San Francisco 69-62 in the first round of the Puerto Rico Shootout. His overall record at the time after that victory was 50-17 (74.6, 67 games). Coincidentally, Wooden’s record after his first 67 games as the UCLA head coach was also 50-17.

    Entering 2002-03, Lavin is No. 1 in wins and percentage (135-59, 69.6) in the nation on the chart of current collegiate Div. I head coaches entering their seventh season. In Lavin’s six years as the Bruin head coach, UCLA is 115-5 when leading at the five-minute mark and 8-2 when the score is tied with five minutes left to play.

    Lavin is the only coach in school history to win at least 22 games in each of his first three seasons at UCLA and also the only coach to win at least 70.0% of his games in each of his first three years. He’s the first UCLA head coach since Gary Cunningham in 1978 (25-3) and ’79 (25-5) to record back-to-back seasons of at least 24 wins (1998, 24-9; 1997, 24-8).

    During Lavin’s 11 years on the UCLA staff, the Bruins have won one NCAA Championship (1995) and four Pacific-10 titles (1992, 1995-97), along with 11 straight 20+game winning seasons and 11 consecutive NCAA Tournament bids, including three ‘Elite Eight’ appearances (1997, ’95, ’92) and four ‘Sweet 16’ appearances (1998, 2000, 2001, 2002).

    His NCAA tournament record through 6 seasons(11-6) was the best mark in school history of any coach in their first 6 years.

    He was also 10-2 in overtime games.

    Lavin is a lot more impressive than we are giving him credit for.

  21. Mr O 04/07/2006 at 1:29 PM #

    Hired at the age of 32 years old, he had the following record through 6 seasons:

    Pac 10: 74-34 (68.5%)

    Overall: 135-59 (69.6%)

    11-6 in the NCAAs

    10-2 in overtime games

    6 McDonald AAs

    1st UCLA coach since the tourney expanded to lead them to 5 Sweet 16s in a 6 year stretch.

    1st UCLA coach since Wooden to win multiple NCAA games 5 years in a six year stretch.

    10-1 in NCAA first and 2nd round games.

    Lavin is damn impressive for a 32 year old coach taking over a program like UCLA’s.

  22. BJD95 04/07/2006 at 1:30 PM #

    It was at freaking UCLA, for God’s sake. Rationally, you have to expect lower performance than a coach was able to provide at one of the three “gold standard” programs that can essentially sell themselves (UCLA, UNC, Kentucky).

    I mean, PURDUE did pass this guy over in favor of a hapless no-name like Matt Painter.

  23. Mr O 04/07/2006 at 1:32 PM #

    Lavin was in his 30s at the time. It is near impossible for any coach in his 30s to meet UCLA’s standards. It wasn’t like Lavin came up woefully short because they were actually one of the best programs in the country over that stretch…just not as good as what UCLA expects.

    Coaches get better when they get older. I like Lavin as a possibility myself.

  24. Mr O 04/07/2006 at 1:33 PM #

    Yes it was UCLA. And he did a good job with the program at a very young age.

  25. Dan 04/07/2006 at 1:35 PM #

    Hiring Steve Lavin would be a PR nightmare for NC State. Over half the fan base would be screaming for his head the day he signed.

    Steve if you are reading this: We don’t want you here. And this is coming from a Herb backer.

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