Fowler & HSSS Crew Wrong, State Not Capitalizing on Carolina’s Exodus

Last basketball season when Carolina, Duke, and Wake Forest were spending the entire season ranked in the Top 5 of the country and NC State was struggling to squeeze into the NCAA Tournament for the 3rd time in our “great” 4 straight appearances, one of the more credible members of the Pack Pride community posted a great thread about a conversation that he had with Athletics Director, Lee Fowler.

The poster’s comments about his conversation with Fowler, and the resulting thread that followed were fantastic (I just wish that Pack Pride had saved it). The crux of the conversation centered on Lee Fowler’s comments that he expected NC State to have a better 2005-2006 basketball season because most of the other teams in the conference were going to be worse.

If you are someone who has to perform in your job to meet certain goals, or someone with standards of excellence or who has generally been successful or classified as a “winner” in your life, then you immediately understand how sad and ridiculous that amazing “management philopshy” is.

If you are someone who is generally loser and always finds a way to blame things outside of your control for your lack of success, then you are scratching your head right now wondering what is so wrong with Lee Fowler’s “plan” to make State a successful basketball program.

The comments & perspective that Fowler shared with the donor – and with others at the time – served to help write one of the next chapters in the Herb Sendek Sunshine Squad Manual:

“Just continue to construct future success propositions and proclaim them as if they are fact. Continue to hold firm to the irrational predictions no matter how much historical records and performance would lead a thinking human to conclude otherwise. Then, hope that in the years that the ACC is down, just like the year State finished second in 2004, we can have a pretty good year that you can then point to as all of the other teams cycle back through to their huge seasons.”

Well, after State’s loss to Carolina today, the same poster chimed in today on Pack Pride recalling Fowler’s comments:

Last year, when I talked to Fowler, he told me we would be much better this year when the Carolina, Wake and Duke Players went pro. When you have a strategy of your improvement on competition getting worse you have exactly what happened today.

Congrats the the Tar Heel Freshman that kicked the crap out of our team. Wonder what Fowler’s strategy will be now that their freshman are better than our seniors.

Keep up the great work Fowler!! You are the best AD Carolina ever had!

General NCS Basketball

109 Responses to Fowler & HSSS Crew Wrong, State Not Capitalizing on Carolina’s Exodus

  1. VaWolf82 01/08/2006 at 2:01 PM #

    It would take a miracle for us to catch one of those two programs as long as they have coaches like Roy Williams and Coach K. Its just reality folks.

    Where was Duke when K took over? Did Dean have a head start on K? It doesn’t take a miracle, just the right coach.

    Did V ever catch Dean? No, but he did win:
    2 Reg Season Titles
    2 ACCT titles
    1 Sweet 16
    2 Elite Eights
    1 National Championship

    Catching Duke or UNC is not the goal. The goal is to have a BB program that obtains meaningful milestones and accomplishments…regardless of who is or isn’t in the conference.

  2. scott 01/08/2006 at 3:21 PM #

    if the “pinnacle” is just making it into the NCAA tourney, you’re happy. If you dare hope for (or expect) more, well….. Herb’s “best start” veteran team gets their butts whipped by the inexperienced Heels, who lost their top 7 scorers from last year.

  3. PACDADDY 01/08/2006 at 5:18 PM #

    First off…Jeff…I read your pregame entry and said “nice read”…it was excellent.

    I never attack you guys personally(at least I don’t mean it that way). I think you and VA want what’s best for NC State, or you guys wouldn’t spend the time you do on this site. I happen to sometimes disagree with your tactics and many times the quality of some of the info provided that’s presented as “factual”, when it is “opinion”. You’ve attacked me on more than one occation. You guys try to make me out to be some “crazy fringe” fan.

    WE lost to UNC…it sucks…I’m upset…I have to face many UNC grads on a daily basis…but it’s not the end of the season.

    VA…you can’t have it both ways…you can put the accomplishments V had every time you want to respond to HSSer’s, but in what context are you responding?

    You claim head to head is an indication of being “competitve” with a program, then you rundown the end of season accomplishments V had.

    Every fan agrees…V was competitive with UNC in the 80’s…but he beat them 7 times in 10 years…never swept UNC and only had over 50% record once(’83). What I’m saying is we can lose to UNC and still have strong seasons and be “competitive”.

    This is an honest question…what would you rather do…finish ahead of UNC in the ACC or beat them and finish behind them? Personally…I’d prefer the both, but if I had to pick one, it would be the former.

    I’ve said many times over the years that fans that don’t like, or didn’t like Herb as our caoch “weren’t wrong”, because I can see the frustration we all have with restoring the tradition we once had. I want a stable winning program that “competes” at the highest level and does it with goods kids(Like UNC and Duke).

    Where I differ from the anti-Herb crowd, is their tactics and distructive way they go about it…In the past it was the fans that were saying…Herb can’t develop players” or he’s not a good tournament coach” or all we do is shoot 3 pter’s” or “he can’t recruit bigmen”…

    every years he debunks these myths, but then they continue to change…”we can’t compete with UNC”.

    I have a “great” nephew who is a big UNC fan…he likes NCSU, but his Dad(my nephew) is a UNC grad. He’s ten years old and they go to all the games…loves to :give it me” and my son when we lose. He said last night at dinner to my 10 year old son(who’s a diehard Pack fan and hates UNC), “we’ve owned you guys for the last 5 years”(keep in mind, he didn’t really pay attention to BB and FB until 5 years ago). He was talking about both sports.

    My son said…How’s that? “We have finished ahead of you in BB in the ACC every year but last season?” “We are 4-5 against you the last 5 years.” Now…I may have helped him a little bit in the stats in preparation for what I knew was coming 😉

    My point is this…my 10 year old understands what this means…he also understands the same players that won a national title, the year before, we finished ahead of in the ACC. He remembers us finishing strong that year and he remembers us LOSING to UNC at home, because we were there. Now…we can say Roy wasn’t coach..but he was!…we can say he was new to UNC players…well…he is right NOW. WE can say UNC beat us with a buch of freshman..big deadl…In Hodges first season we beat them.

    UNC has the number one class coming in next season…the kind of talent few fans ever get a chance to enjoy. Who could we hire that could compete with that type of class? I swear…you give me a name of somebody that we could bring in and compete with that type of recruiting, and I’m on your team. Herb has a solid core of players and a solid class coming in. Probably as good as anything V or Sloan would bring in, and he’s beating the ACC teams we should be beating. At least he has the last few seasons…YES..we lose to teams we shouldn’t, but so does everyone else in this conference outside of Duke(who should have lost to VT this year). UNC will lose many games this season in ACC…I don’t think we will.

    Isn’t that whats it all about?

    BTW…after my son said that to my “great” nephew, the conversation ended and we didn’t hardly year another word…Even my “great nephew” understood it. We can win big in the ACC and NCAA and still lose to UNC.

  4. JeremyHyatt 01/08/2006 at 5:24 PM #

    hopefully i am remotely on-topic, if not forgive me and allow others to read these thoughts.

    thinking about it now, State has a certain style of play, which they apply to the game, that makes them successful. Carolina the same.

    when State gets taken out of their game (e.g. showing patience, spreading the ball/floor, showing possession/ taking care of the ball, inside/out game with perimeter sharp shooters and Ced/Brack inside), score one for the other team. every possession we fail to do all of the above, mark one on the chalkboard for the opposition.

    now, if it becomes difficult to maintain the above items, especially if one of them is on the bench with 4 fouls, what do you do? generally, you must adapt your game or suffer the consequences. basketball is not played in a vacuum yes Ced gives us teeth on the offensive/defensive end that makes us the caliber of team everyone has been championing State as in the media. but is there anything we can do to compensate for his loss on the floor? maybe this contributes to the reason for the jack-up-threes-deer-in-headlights happening. it must be addresses in some form since our defense disappears, or rather isn’t effective without him.

    leave Ced for a moment, we missed critical free throws that may have had us in a good position to win, missed opportunities and wasted possessions. it was hard to watch, even Atsur missed a front end 1-1. We made 2 threes at critical junctures, but also missed 2 threes at critical junctures.

    They played their butts off but didn’t have a chance to win at the end because of fundamental mistakes/missed opps by the players, not the coaching. some of our players are not as discliplined on the court that our playing system requires: Bennerman, Grant often play undiscliplined. I did hear Herb say in a post-game talk this year, something along the lines that all he asks is that the players listen to them and use what they’ve learned in game-time. I think this hint’s at this player/coach struggle to stick with the system. Hmm. I might even agree that this is something standing in the way of success.

    if they want to learn from this loss, will it be to have a sound offensive/defensive strategy when certain players are not in the game? If not, all this talk of interchangable parts is off the mark.

    I only rementioned Fells because of the comment by Bennerman of running out of gas chasing fresh Tar Heels (and i wouldn’t mind seeing what a 5 star athelete looks like). One way to “adapt” to losing 1 man in a already short 7 man rotation, would be to introduce more people to the rotation and deal with the fresh legs factor. But then again, this goes back to our style of play and what makes us successful. Taking care of the ball, spreading the court, etc… which we did not do that well in this game and should be addressed first.

  5. Jeff 01/08/2006 at 6:11 PM #

    Should be bronzed:

    “No it was not just one loss. It was the latest in the incredibly long string of very winnable games against credible opponents that Herb has failed to win. It started with Herb’s first two games against Carolina in 1997, his first game against Virginia in 1997, and his first game against Wake Forest in 1997, and has continued practically unabated since then. I guess that’s why Herb keeps telling us to live in daytight compartments. It allows you to view every game so myopically that no matter how many of them are played in the same way, progress the same way, and end the same way you’ll never see the pattern, never see the commonality, never see the repetition.

  6. TVP 01/08/2006 at 8:05 PM #

    ^As for that comment, “a string of very winnable games against credible opponents that Herb has failed to win” – how does that make him any different than any other coach? Couldn’t you essentially substitute the name of any other coach for Herb and have the statement be valid? Speaking of “problems with data analysis”, I sometimes feel like NC State fans think tough losses only happen to us.

    In any case, I thought I’d point out this Andy Katz article:

    That doesn’t include losses today by Villanova (at home to an unranked team), Michigan State (by 19 to a team ranked 17 spots lower) and Boston College (to unranked Georgia Tech on the road).

    The point, of course, is that it’s January, it’s early, these things happen all the time in college basketball. Losing to UNC sucks and is infuriating but don’t overreact – I’ll take 12-2 at this point.

  7. VaWolf82 01/08/2006 at 9:15 PM #

    We can win big in the ACC and NCAA and still lose to UNC.

    This is possible…because that is exactly what V did. However, Herb has not. That’s why I also wrote:

    Catching Duke or UNC is not the goal. The goal is to have a BB program that obtains meaningful milestones and accomplishments…regardless of who is or isn’t in the conference.

    I swear…you give me a name of somebody that we could bring in and compete with that type of recruiting, and I’m on your team.

    I swear I am going to have to save this to my hard disk so that I don’t have to keep typing it out. I am not naive enough to think that blogs, internet message boards, letters to the AD or to the editor, or petitions will have any effect on the decisions made in the NC State athletic department. My entries here and on PP have absolutely nothing to do with getting Herb replaced. The large majority of my posts at PP and my entries here have been directed at a number of foolish statements continually made by State fans…usually with no attempt to provide supporting evidence.

    I enjoy watching and discussing NC State athletics and that’s what I do. I try to be as accurate as I can and try to provide facts to support my conclusions. I try not to push my predictions (we all make them) on other people. Occasionally, I try to be funny (which is often met with awkard silence)…but I am not leading a campaign to replace Herb.

  8. TheOrignalBigBadWolf 01/08/2006 at 10:12 PM #

    I’ll be happy for to tell PACDADDY that I’m an idiot for questioning Herb when he does any of the following:

    1. Goes to a Final 4
    2. Wins an ACC title
    3. Sweeps UNC when they’re actually ranked, which will likely be from here on out with Roy

    …don’t expect to hear from me any time soon. One is already out, the other two won’t be happening either.

  9. TheOrignalBigBadWolf 01/08/2006 at 10:14 PM #

    …and that’s Final Four of the NCAA Tournament, not the BCA Classic or the Hispanic College Fund Round-Robin Snoozefest.

  10. PACDADDY 01/08/2006 at 10:46 PM #

    I buy that VA…I guess I read between the lines too much. I didn’t see the last comment you made after the V accomplishment rundown, until I posted, which I can’t edit.

    I guess I always have been a glass “half full” kind of guy. I read some of the topics you have posted and thought they were unneccessay and counter productive. I rarely read this blog until your RPI entry, so I’m sure I missed many other entries you made that were of a positive nature or at least didn’t have that negative tone.

    I enjoy defending Herb Sendek, because I HONESTLY feel he is good for NCSU…in the long run we will be happy LF left him alone…just my humble opinion 🙂

    NOW…I’m not saying I can’t and won’t change my mind, if I see things go sour. I must admit…I can come across as a jerk sometimes, but I’m passionate about NCSU and only want NSCU to be seen as a postive force in college athletics.

    Jeff and even yourself come across as jerks sometimes…I guess weo d have something in common. Sometimes we sound like we’re talking down to people…my problem is I can’t write as well and you and Jeff, so I’m probably a little more direct in my response. No offense intended(Usually) 🙂

    We are passionate about NCSU…this we have in common…now we just need to find some common ground, but at least with Jeff(as it purtains to Herb), I’m not certain that is possible…so be it.

    Herb is the only one that can solve that problem, then everyone should be happy…if not…it becomes kind of sad…or pathetic.

    Guys like VCC and others will forever be left in the “pathetic” state of mind…or they’ll change there name and enjoy our success.

    ME?…If Herb tanks it and it’s clear he can’t get us to the highest level…Final 4’s and ACC Title’s…I’ll saddly state the obvious…but it’s going to have to be OBVIOUS…it’s not at this moment…until them I support him 100%.

    Message boards and Blogs CAN have an effect on recruits/parents/fans and it often trickles out to radio and newspapers. The internet is a powerful thing, and recruits and parents often read these types of sites.

    I KNOW I WOULD IF I WERE BEING RECRUITED>>>WOULDN’T YOU???HONESTLY?…didn’t that make the local news here? As stupid and meaningless as it was……didn’t that make the news? How can these meaningless sites make news, but simple blogs that actually have intelligent entries and negative positions not have some meaning?…if it didn’t, I don’t think Jeff would spend as much time on this site as he does. It influences peoples thought processes. If a knowledgable fan knows anything about NCSU(positive or negative), he can process the info and decide it’s truth or importance in the grand view of things…People who come here with a blank canvas and no knowledge of Herb, or NCSU, could find it difficult to understand what’s important and process info differently.

    If I didn’t believe this(naive or not)…I won’t spend five seconds on this blog typing, other than to simply read these entries and move on.

    Who knows…I may even do some of my own research and add an entry myself…now that would push Jeff over the edge. 🙂 Of course…for it to be worth anything, I’m still going to have to wait for another 3-4 years. I know you guys can’t wait that long, but realistically, to gather enough positve stats and show a strong consistent level of play, it will take that long…about as long as it took GW…I had to add that.


  11. Rick 01/08/2006 at 10:56 PM #

    “since the majority of the contributors on the floor were here last year in addition to Julius Hodge”

    I also keep wondering about the “most talent ever”. But that is irrelevant

    We lost to a team that returned only one player that played last year. We did our usual tank job.

    What struck me most about that game was the clips of the coaches. Every time they showed Roy he was talking to his team. He was yelling at them. He was huddled with a player that just left the game. He was turned around explaining something to a player. Every time they showed Herb he was just looking ahead.

    We are what we are. I just do not see us ever being better than a good team under Herb. I hope I am wrong but I see nothing to change that opinion.

  12. VaWolf82 01/08/2006 at 11:05 PM #

    If Herb tanks it and it’s clear he can’t get us to the highest level…Final 4’s and ACC Title’s…I’ll saddly state the obvious…but it’s going to have to be OBVIOUS…it’s not at this moment…until them I support him 100%.

    When do you expect to make this decision? [No sarcasm intended]

    didn’t have that negative tone.

    For the most part, I have simply compiled records and computer rankings and then compared Herb to the best coaches in the ACC. That’s how I make my conclusions…with cold, hard data.

    I went back through the entry “RPI and the ACC” where I concluded that Herb ranks behind GW, RW, Skippy, and of course K. In the comments section there, I asked several different times if you agreed with my conclusion or not….and you never answered. Maybe you consider my conclusion negative…I consider it unfortunate, but accurate.

  13. PACDADDY 01/08/2006 at 11:56 PM #

    “When do you expect to make this decision? [No sarcasm intended]”

    When I’m good and darn ready[sarcasm intended]

    As long as we stay among the top 3-4 teams in ACC and compete for ACC final and finish in the FINAL top 25(not the rpi cr@p)…a real poll of HUMANS that watch season as it unfolds. I’d like to see us in top 10-15 regularly during season.

    If over the next 3-4 year period, we aren’t “competing” for ACC final and regular season title, and we have to continually cross our figures during NCAA tournament selection time…I’ll change my mind.

    “I went back through the entry “RPI and the ACCâ€? where I concluded that Herb ranks behind GW, RW, Skippy, and of course K. In the comments section there, I asked several different times if you agreed with my conclusion or not….and you never answered. Maybe you consider my conclusion negative…I consider it unfortunate, but accurate.”

    I did answer your question. I agreed with your numbers. I then went on to tell you that over those periods we had up and downs, and Wake has had up and downs…but less. I then went on the “project” that we’ll close the gap on WF as we go forward. Prosser came in and inherited a srtrong program with many talented players, he then benefited form negative fans and got some great recruits. I just don’t think Prosser can hold Sendeks kock in the long term. I also think Herb is right where he should be in relation to GW. NOW…I know GW has done a fanastic job at Maryland, and I’m not saying Herb will win the NC…but strictly looking the numbers you put forward, they’re isn’t a great deal of difference, if you consider how often one team can catch up rather quickly on one season.

    My frustration comes in when I compared the Greenfields RPI top 25 results/records for Rick Barnes and Donovan and somehow it’s not relavant. Then went on to show just how much difference there is between number of top 5-10 teams we played compared to the number Texas and Fla actually played.

    All you guys keep saying is how the RPI doesn’t descriminate and is a consistent formula of where a program should be ranked(not subjective)..if that’s the case, I should be able to compare our top 25 record to Cleveland State and it should have the same relavance…right?

    My point is…strickly looking at RPI records isn’t the only way to determine a successful coach.

    I remember an entry Jeff had a while back that basically challenged anyone who suggested Donvan hasn’t got it done of late(I didn’t take the bait, because I agree)…well…He went 10-19 against top 25 teams in last 4 seasons…we went 13-27…well…Donovan had a better record and finished higher in polls a couple of times…but…he also played 4 top five teams during that time to our 15…is that misleading or invalid? He beat 1 top 5 team…we beat 3. In case anyone questions the 3 wins…Those 3 wins didn’t include the 2 we got from #6 GT.

    NOW..I realize he has won and SEC championship last season, but that Tourney isn’t the same as the ACC…no team outside of UK are POWERFUL every year(of course this season he’ll win it again, because the SEC SUCKS)…they were also the 4th rated conference last season.

  14. Class of '74 01/09/2006 at 6:43 AM #

    Death, taxes and Herb loses to Roy. Now those are three sure fire locks!

    They lose the seven leading players from last year and we can’t beat them, just amazing! Gosh, what will it be like next year with the “greatest recruiting class of all time” arrives on their campus!

    The next four games really will be revealing as to how we respond to this disappointment.

  15. Class of '74 01/09/2006 at 7:23 AM #

    ^”If over the next 3-4 year period we’re not competing for the ACC final and regular season title”. Give me a break, Duke and UNC have the next 4 years locked up. Herb will be in his 14th year with NO banners. That is a LOCK. If you are happy with 3rd and 4th place then you fit in very nicely in the Lee Fowler school of “we will be better because they won’t be as good “. Demand little and ye shall receive.

  16. Mr. O 01/09/2006 at 8:04 AM #

    Maryland, BC, Mich St, Villanova and Illinios all lost to unranked teams in college basketball.

    I realize that the loss is painful because of who beat us, but they pretty much played the perfect game to beat us. It is a long year. There isn’t a need to start after the AD and basketball coach after losing one game.

  17. VaWolf82 01/09/2006 at 8:49 AM #

    As long as we stay among the top 3-4 teams in ACC and compete for ACC final and finish in the FINAL top 25

    I didn’t ask the right question, but you came close to answering what I should have asked. Let me try ask another one, would you be happy with Gene Keady’s record at State?

    My point is…strickly looking at RPI records isn’t the only way to determine a successful coach.

    And no one has done that. When I compare head-to-head records with an overall winning percentage against the RPI top-50, I reach the exact same conclusion. Herb ranks behind K, RW, GW, and Skippy.

    Another relevant comparison is Herb’s record and accomplishments to every other coach at NC State, since the beginning of the ACC. Herb only ranks above Les.

  18. Jeff 01/09/2006 at 8:55 AM #

    ^ Give me a break.

    Every single one of those programs is currently considered ahead of us. Why is that so acceptable to begin with?

    Every one of those programs have had an NCAA problem in the last 25 years.

    3 of those 5 programs have made a Final 4 in the last 5 years.

    And 3 of those 5 programs have coaches who haven’t been at their school as long as Herb yet have no problem being ahead of us despite not having our resources?

    Of course teams lose individual games. The problem isn’t losing individual games…the problem is losing a series of individual games that lead one to easy conclusions:

    * Sendek is 0-5 vs Roy.

    * Sendek has a 23% winning percentage vs Carolina (INCLUDING the Doherty games) comapred to NC State’s 37% winning percentage vs Carolina before Herb.

    * Sendek is 1-14 vs Carolina coaches not fired for poor performance.

    * State is 0-2 against the only two teams currently rated better than #77 in the RPI this year.

    * State is 1-2 vs the only two teams currently rated better than #129 in the RPI this year.

    It is not that we lost A GAME against a good team (rival) this weekend — it is that we lost ANOTHER in a decade long series of games against decent teams (and our rivals). This is the best team we’ve had in a decade…and we are 0-2 vs teams ranked better than #77 in the RPI.

    That is the problem.

  19. Rick 01/09/2006 at 9:10 AM #

    “As long as we stay among the top 3-4 teams in ACC and compete for ACC final and finish in the FINAL top”

    We have “stayed” amoung the top 3-4 exactly one year. We have been 9-7,9-7,11-5 adn 7-9.
    How in the world can you equate that to “staying in the top 3-4 teams”? I guess if you consider one year out of nine “staying amoung the top 3-4 teams in the ACC” then you are right. Or if you consider staying to be equal to living in the same state you are correct.

  20. SCWolf 01/09/2006 at 9:17 AM #

    This game proved how Bad Sendek really is. It was painfully obvious that we had the better team. We lost because of Sendek, period. His offense is terrible. Sure, it works great against UNCG. But not against a Roy Williams team or any team with a good coach. His offense limits the athletic ability of our players. They are worried too much about passing and not enough about scoring. Remember that drive and dunk that Brackman had? He could have done that all game. So can Cam Bennerman. The spread offense opens up the floor to create drivng lanes. But we never drive them b/c Sendek wants to make a great pass and score on a cut every play. All we do is stand around and pass the ball and hope we eventually get to someone open enough to take a shot. But we never create offense by driving to the basket. Brackman did it twice, and it worked both times. I have never been a Sendek fan, and I tried to be skeptical this year when we were ranked in the top 20 b/c I know what usually happens to Sendek teams. But when we beat GW and moved up to # 12, and after listening to everyone say how good we are, I too jumped on the bandwagon and started to believe this year was gonna be different. And it set me up for a big let down just like every other year. And what really pisses me off is the people who are saying it is ok, and we will still finish higher than UNC does at the end of the year. Thats bull shit. When you have a team significantly better, you are supposed to win. I don’t mind loosing a close game to a good team. If we get beat by Duke, I won’t care so much, b/c they are a better team. But we lost that game b/c Roy Williams is a good coach and Sendek is not. Period.

  21. Mr. O 01/09/2006 at 9:30 AM #

    I think that was top a top 3 or 4 finish in three of those seasons.

    Jeff: It is a long year. Personally, I don’t define our seasons by games against UNC. We are going to lose more games this year. The season is going to be defined by our overall record, ACC record, ACC tourney performance and NCAA tournament performance.

    You can always make a case that losing this game can actually help us.

    Again, it is a long season. There isn’t any reason to get upset over this loss at this point in the season.

  22. Class of '74 01/09/2006 at 9:46 AM #

    Something else I find interesting is the full page color add on page 9 of the N&O. We are offering 4 game mini-pack, all ACC games, for $100 plus you may get a t-shirt with this deal.
    I find that to be a sad commentary on the state of this program. We can’t even fill up the RBC for WF, Maryland, BC and UVA. I think that actually says more than any post I’ve read or written regarding our basketball program.

  23. Rick 01/09/2006 at 10:04 AM #

    “Again, it is a long season. There isn’t any reason to get upset over this loss at this point in the season.”

    We lost to a team that returned one player that even scored last year. I don’t care how you spin it, it was an atrocious loss.

  24. Mike 01/09/2006 at 10:38 AM #

    Many interesting comments….but it is not another loss to UNC. It is ANOTHER LOSS in a game we should have won. Yes, other teams lose games they should have won, but this is a PATTERN. I can accept once in a while because it happens. But our pattern is what is frustrating.

    Take the colors away – tie score about 2 minutes to go. You have an experienced team with seniors and juniors on the floor. The opponent has freshman, which team would you expect to win this game? Why is it the seniors panic and the freshmen are calm, cool, and collected? And as I have posted before, this is not the first time – it happens every game at the end. We panic, the other team does not. This is coaching my friends. Yes, the players made some dumb decisions on the floor, and the coaches are not repsonsible for the decisions of the players. The coaches prepare the players (or they should) for this type situation so they don’t make dumb decisions. This is why we were outcoached. Freshmen knoew what to do at the end, seniors did not.

  25. lumberpack 01/09/2006 at 10:43 AM #

    I have said for over 6 years this man can’t get it done. He’s a nice guy, but he can’t get it done and how many years do we give him to learn?

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