Fowler & HSSS Crew Wrong, State Not Capitalizing on Carolina’s Exodus

Last basketball season when Carolina, Duke, and Wake Forest were spending the entire season ranked in the Top 5 of the country and NC State was struggling to squeeze into the NCAA Tournament for the 3rd time in our “great” 4 straight appearances, one of the more credible members of the Pack Pride community posted a great thread about a conversation that he had with Athletics Director, Lee Fowler.

The poster’s comments about his conversation with Fowler, and the resulting thread that followed were fantastic (I just wish that Pack Pride had saved it). The crux of the conversation centered on Lee Fowler’s comments that he expected NC State to have a better 2005-2006 basketball season because most of the other teams in the conference were going to be worse.

If you are someone who has to perform in your job to meet certain goals, or someone with standards of excellence or who has generally been successful or classified as a “winner” in your life, then you immediately understand how sad and ridiculous that amazing “management philopshy” is.

If you are someone who is generally loser and always finds a way to blame things outside of your control for your lack of success, then you are scratching your head right now wondering what is so wrong with Lee Fowler’s “plan” to make State a successful basketball program.

The comments & perspective that Fowler shared with the donor – and with others at the time – served to help write one of the next chapters in the Herb Sendek Sunshine Squad Manual:

“Just continue to construct future success propositions and proclaim them as if they are fact. Continue to hold firm to the irrational predictions no matter how much historical records and performance would lead a thinking human to conclude otherwise. Then, hope that in the years that the ACC is down, just like the year State finished second in 2004, we can have a pretty good year that you can then point to as all of the other teams cycle back through to their huge seasons.”

Well, after State’s loss to Carolina today, the same poster chimed in today on Pack Pride recalling Fowler’s comments:

Last year, when I talked to Fowler, he told me we would be much better this year when the Carolina, Wake and Duke Players went pro. When you have a strategy of your improvement on competition getting worse you have exactly what happened today.

Congrats the the Tar Heel Freshman that kicked the crap out of our team. Wonder what Fowler’s strategy will be now that their freshman are better than our seniors.

Keep up the great work Fowler!! You are the best AD Carolina ever had!

General NCS Basketball

109 Responses to Fowler & HSSS Crew Wrong, State Not Capitalizing on Carolina’s Exodus

  1. PACDADDY 01/12/2006 at 8:18 PM #

    What I meant is he didn’t do much with all those high seeds until the last 2 seasons. 2 final fours over a 13 year period for THE GREAT ROY…is underachieving…you’re the one that is wrong. We’re not talking about Kansas State here.

    I NEVER said Duke would run off Coach K. I think if another coach were to come in the program at this moment and only bring them 1 final 8 in 8 seasons, they’d run him off…you’re wrong again!

    I know Gut was ran off because of recruiting, age, and lack of success during regular season…”he was encouraged to retire”…wasn’t he?

    “Check what the people were saying in Kansas when he arrived and tell me his job wasn’t considered rebuilding”

    …I sorry…what year was it when Manning and Brown won the title…’88? Why is a one year probation such a big deal? ONE YEAR??? It’s not like they sucked. I guess you’re going to give me the “much worse than what Herb had to deal with” crap. IF HIS REBUILDING EFFORT WAS SO HARD, HOW COULD HE MAKE THE FINAL 4 SO FAST(TWICE IN 5 SEASONS) BUT THEN TAKE 8 YEARS OFF?…it’s the Kansas Jayhawks! How long did it take Pitino to “rebuild” from a probation at UK? Their’s was 10 x’s worse…in fact, Kansas barely fail out of the top 20 polls during Roys first season. YOU’RE WRONG!

    For a program like Kansas…8 years with no final 4’s is a frickin eternity, especailly when you have a coach of Roys abilities…but fans aren’t going to bust your balls when you’re finishing 1st in the worst big conference in the country and ranked in top 5 throughout the season due to a weak schedule…Were those rankings legit? Based on the NCAA results, I’d say there is a telling trend somewhere in those w/l records.

    We can keep going on and on about this and I can never win this argument, because I agree with you! Roy is a great coach…for the 4th-5th time!…I just don’t think he’s Dean or K or Pitino….but great! He’s going to have to WIN THE TITLE WITH HOS OWN PLAYERS before I put him in that class…sorry

    Look at it this way…of the highest % winning teams in the 90’s in major conferences…in order

    1…Kansas 4 #1 seeds and 3 #2 seeds…that’s 7 top eight teams in ten years
    2…Kentucky 4 #1 seeds
    3…Arizona 1 #1 seeds
    5…Duke 3 #1 seeds
    6…UNC 5 #1 seeds
    7…UCONN 3 #1 seeds
    10…Arkansas 1 #1 seeds

    Everyone of those teams won a National title in the 90’s but one…which one is that? Accept for 5 #1 seeds for UNC who won the NC and made the final 4 four more times, who was the number #1 seed more than anyone? Kentucky had 4 and Kansas had 4…

    and how many NC’s did Pitino have?…how many Elite 8’s and final game appearances? Answer…Kansas had 2 final 4’s and one Elite 8. Kentucky 8 appearances in at least the final 8…quite a difference between Pitino and Roy.

    Heck…even Arkansas made the FINAL GAME more than Kansas, with their 1 #1 seed.

    Did I mention the decade AFTER, he failed to make the Sweet 16 three years in a row! His two seasons in Kansas is what this is all about…This is way the preception of him is what it is, then the NC last season put it in stone. A title he won with the WORST COACH IN UNC’s HISTORY PLAYERS.

    There…now get over yourself.

  2. class of '74 01/13/2006 at 6:09 AM #

    I appreciate your passion on this but your wrong on several points. The only thing is Roy and K are the tops and anyone else you can name is behind those two that’s a given.

  3. Rick 01/13/2006 at 9:15 AM #

    Everytime I read a new post from PackDaddy I find some many things wrong with his logic that I stopped trying to respond.
    I wil simply repsond to this one point because it is a microcosm of the problems with your “facts” and “logic”.

    “What I meant is he didn’t do much with all those high seeds until the last 2 seasons.”
    You are criticizing him for not winning enough in the NCAA? He was in as bad (if not worse) situation than Herb and had them in a final four within a few years. How is this not NCAA sucess?
    If you do not define that as NCAA success how can you define Herb’s measly one sweet 16 as success?
    Me thinks you speak out of both sides of your mouth too much.

  4. class of '74 01/13/2006 at 9:33 AM #

    ^Thank you Rick. You expressed my sentiments exactly.

  5. PACDADDY 01/13/2006 at 5:15 PM #

    “You are criticizing him for not winning enough in the NCAA? He was in as bad (if not worse) situation than Herb and had them in a final four within a few years.”

    …put the pipe down…the comparsions between these two schools programs at the time Herb and Roy took over are COMPLETELY IDIOTIC!

    READ WHAT I SAID!!!…I’m talking about the comparisons to Dean, K and Pitino as a bit premature. I never compared Herb to Williams, because HERB IS FRICKIN 15 years YOUNGER! I simply said that ROY RARELY WON WHEN IT COUNTED IN THE NCAA…sheesh

    FACT…Kansas won National Title in 87-88

    FACT..Next year Roy took over Larry Browns players and spent a good portion of season in top 20.

    FACT…During Roy’s SECOND season they were #1 and 2 for good portion of season…whose players were they? I doubt he did that with Freshmen and Soph’s, especially coming off PROBATION. Mark Randall was a Brown recruit, if I’m remember correctly.

    FACT…Brown REBUILT Kansas not Roy…just like DOH

    FACT…Roy made Final 4 in third season…Great coaches do that from time to time. Mark Randall was a Senior and A-A.

    FACT…Roy went 13 seasons with 3 appearances of Elite 8 or better and no National Title….13 seasons…and he’s compared to K…or Pitino? Crap. Yes…his last 2 seasons at Kansas, he had the best teams in the country. WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO SHOW FOR IT????…nothing!


    FACT…You and ’74 have no idea what you’re talking about.

  6. class of '74 01/14/2006 at 9:23 AM #

    ^Your comments regarding my knowledge I take as a compliment!!

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