Being Competitive – A Real Example

There are two words (and all of their derivations) that I’ve come to hate over the last year or so…�expect� and “compete�. These two words are certainly not complicated to spell, pronounce, or use in normal conversation. However when they are used on sports message boards, the meanings can become nearly incomprehensible and stretched beyond recognition.

When someone uses “expectâ€?, it can mean anything from hope/dream, predict, and even require. For example if your manager (or Significant Other) says, “That was not what I expectedâ€?…then the meaning is obvious and it is not good. When a fan talks about “expecting to do betterâ€?, it is often hard to tell if that is a prediction or a hope. (The insanity of a fan talking about requirements for the coach/team should be obvious to all and not worth discussing…though some fans do so incessantly.)

“Compete� can also have several different meanings. For example, Stetson arrived in Raleigh with coaches, players, tennis shoes, etc. They ran, jumped, dribbled, and shot for 40 minutes and thus the sentence “Stetson was competing with NC State.� is a perfectly acceptable statement…..except for the little fact that Stetson would offer no competition to any ACC school.

In the sports world, “competitive� is normally used to describe a close game that could have been won by either team. Over a longer period of time, to say that one program was competitive with another would normally mean that your team won some games, even if the “bad guys� won more often. However, when the wins on the court/field occur less frequently than February 29th, then we have a problem.

So to help ground the optimistically-delusional fans, I am going to provide an illustration of a program that is competitive with a superior program…Maryland vs Duke. I don’t think describing Duke as having a superior program (or at least having superior results) to any other program in America over the last 20 years will raise much controversy. From 1999 through 2005, Duke finished ahead of Maryland in the regular season standings five times, tied with them once, and behind Maryland once. However, the 17 games played between Duke and Maryland over the last seven seasons break down as follows:

Location

Maryland’s

Record

@ Maryland

3-4

@ Duke

3-4

Neutral

1-2

Total:

7-10

This series contains overtime games, last-second shots, frantic comebacks…and a few trouncings. Maryland has finished the ACC regular season the last two years at 7-9, but still won three of five games against Duke who was ranked in the RPI Top-5 both years. Imagine that…actually beating a top-10 team. Guess we should tell Gary not to try so hard since losses to top-10 teams don’t count. 😉

It’s both sad and funny to watch some NC State fans try to define “competitive� in ways that don’t require winning. The saddest example has to be the silly spiel about State beating the last seven national champions in basketball. The only time that State beat one of these eventual national champions was in the 2002 ACC tourney when they upset Maryland. How anyone can take pride in beating a school before or after they won the NCAA tourney is beyond me….but we have fans that do.

Final Note
By almost any definition, Wake Forest and Maryland have both been competitive with the top teams in the country over the last few years. However, it is Maryland that has a regular season title, ACC Tourney title, two Final Four appearances, and a National Championship. They keep score for a reason……the real goal is to win and to win championships.

Raw Data  for Maryland
vs Duke

2005

Maryland 75, (4) Duke 66

Away

Maryland
99, (4) Duke 92 (OT)

Home

2004

(1)
Duke 68, Maryland
60

Home

(1)
Duke 86, Maryland
63

Away

Maryland
95, (1) Duke 87 (OT)

Neutral

2003

Maryland 87, (12) Duke 72

Home

(12)
Duke 75, Maryland
70

Away

2002

(4)
Duke 99, Maryland
78

Away

Maryland 87, (4) Duke 73

Home

2001

(1)
Duke 98, Maryland 96

Home

Maryland 91, (1) Duke 80

Away

(1)
Duke 84, Maryland
82

Neutral

2000

(2)
Duke 80, Maryland
70

Home

Maryland
98, (2) Duke 87

Away

(2)
Duke 81, Maryland
68

Neutral

1999

(1)
Duke 82, Maryland
64

Home

(1)
Duke 95, Maryland
77

Away

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

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54 Responses to Being Competitive – A Real Example

  1. PACDADDY 12/18/2005 at 12:46 PM #

    I got it from the beginning VA…GW has been competitive with K for last 2.5 seasons. 2 of GW wins during that period were in overtime…while most of his losses weren’t close. We have played Duke close in several games. Does webster dictionary say 3 point margin is competitive? Can 7 points be competitive? It’s basketball…In the final minutes a game can go from 3 to 9 in 3 minutes at end of game. NOTE:I’m not saying Herb is as competitive as GW against Duke.

    again…is 3-8 competitive? Now if the 7-10 record was equally distributed throughout the seven years I see your point…but it wasn’t. He had a short run…but the games has been entertaining enough for ESPN to sell us on the rivalry… because UNC sucked…Any good team can make a run against a great team in short spurts.

    Roy has been here 2 seasons…They have played a grand total of 4 games…sheesh

  2. VaWolf82 12/18/2005 at 1:41 PM #

    I got it from the beginning VA…GW has been competitive with K for last 2.5 seasons.

    If this is your standard, that’s fine. Now apply your standard to Herb. Oh wait, when you are talking about Herb you use a competely different set of standards. According to you, Herb is competitive with Roy, even thought he has never beaten him.

    Somehow the victories against Doh are transferred to Roy. I must confess, I have never really understood that part. But don’t worry, you are not alone in your “analysis techniques.”

    By your RPI standards, 1999-2001 don’t apply because Duke was ranked #1 or #2 by the RPI. You’ve already explained that losses to top-10 teams don’t really count.

  3. PACDADDY 12/18/2005 at 4:44 PM #

    “If this is your standard, that’s fine. Now apply your standard to Herb. Oh wait, when you are talking about Herb you use a competely different set of standards. According to you, Herb is competitive with Roy, even thought he has never beaten him.”

    Now you’re reaching VA..where have I said Herb has been competitive with Roy? I was refering to the almighty UNC. Wait until this season is over and we’ll talk.

    AFTER CLOSELY LOOKING AT THE W/L IN EACH SEASON WITHOUT LOOKING AT FIRST ELEVEN GAMES I AGREE GW HAS BEEN COMPETITIVE FOR LAST SIX SEASONS. I DIDN’T NOTICE THAT EACH SEASON THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE VICTORY EXCEPT FOR FIRST ONE. I GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE 3-8 RECORD AND THE DATES WEREN’T LINED UP TO NOTICE IT WITHOUT LOOKING CLOSER.

    3-8 IN FIRST 11 GAMES STILL ISN’T GREAT, BUT TO FAIRLY EVALUATE THE RECORD IT MUST BE BROKEN DOWN IN INDIVIDUAL SEASON.

  4. VaWolf82 12/18/2005 at 5:01 PM #

    3-8 IN FIRST 11 GAMES STILL ISN’T GREAT, BUT TO FAIRLY EVALUATE THE RECORD IT MUST BE BROKEN DOWN IN INDIVIDUAL SEASON.

    I’m getting old, not deaf….don’t yell. How much analysis is required is strictly a function of what you are looking for. I was looking for a good example of being competitive with a stronger program….and I found what I think is a good one. Thought so when I wrote the article and still think so now.

    THE DATES WEREN’T LINED UP TO NOTICE IT WITHOUT LOOKING CLOSER.

    Yea, I can barely spell HTML and I am just at the beginners stage of getting tables to display correctly. I did learn from the Raw Data Table and used borders to get the tables with the Bad Losses (in “Finishing Strong”) to a more legible point. I didn’t edit the raw data table, because I didn’t think anyone would look at it.

    To read the raw data table, recognize that Duke didn’t have the same RPI ranking two years in a row. This will help separate the years.

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