Tailgating Talk: Another Hour

Last year NC State institued a poorly crafted “tailgating policy” that we described as “the worst kind of administrative nonsense – a solution in search of a problem.” We discussed it in this entry that definitely deserves your time.

Later in the year, this (really good) entry discussed the topic framed against a very approprite backdrop of – how do so many other institutions master this difficult subject of social interaction!

Now, NC State’s Technician is writing about their experience out there in the real world in Death Valley. This fantastic piece titled “Clemson has it right” focuses on the family atmosphere and environment fostered by Clemson’s administration. If only Clemson could have Jim Oblinger and Tom Stafford show them the way to proper risk management!!

You see, at NC State risk management = risk avoidance.

It is the ONLY way to insure that the University becomes a commuter school with no Wolfstocks, no lawn parties, no band parties, no post-big-win-celebrations, limited tailgating, no greek system of which to speak, no Hillsborough Street to enjoy and absolutely no social fabric to connect current students or to bridge the current student body to the alums of old. The University has done a fantabulous job of achieving these risk-free goals!! Bravo, Mr. Stafford!!

Today, we turn your attention to the only place you need to go to read a good perspective on the topic – Red & White From State. In this entry.

Unlike most ridiculous blather on the internet, RAWFS takes the time to not only highlight relevant issues on the topic. RAWFS also proposes a PLAN with real-life solutions and suggestions on how to execute the plan. Additionally, they highlight another example of an institution who has found a way to masterfully navigate this oh-so-tricky world of fellowship prior to an athletics event.

One only has to look at the University of Alabama with its twelve national championships in college football and its horde of fans, and the traditions that they have to see the difference: people there often start tailgaiting days in advance, and somehow the Crimson Tide manages to avoid many of the problems that seem to plague NC State’s administrators. Perhaps it is because at Alabama games a properly sized police presence is out in force and scofflaws are dealt with before they can get out of control. In short, in Tuscaloosa, if you get out of line, you’ll probably be needing someone to get you out of jail.

Take a look at a short excerpt from the fine book RammerJammerYellowHammer by Warren St. John:

“In the South, the Midwest, and other pockets of fan mania throughout America, it’s not unheard of these days for fans to arrive in their motor homes a full week before kickoff—to drive directly from one game to the next.”

What a big difference, both in the programs and in the way the respective universities treat their fans.

If our esteemed leaders with their Raleigh-centric, limited perspective ever decide to take a fact finding mission to Tuscaloosa…may we suggest that they swing by Baton Rouge while they are on the gulf coast.

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71 Responses to Tailgating Talk: Another Hour

  1. kool k 05/10/2007 at 7:20 AM #

    Any chance their will ever be lifetime parking rights at CFS?

  2. BobLee 05/10/2007 at 8:11 AM #

    What started out as an exercise in controlling specified socio-cultural incivility morphed dramatically into total bureaucratic mismanagement. An ideal MBA management class study project.

    The ONLY problem was confined to a specific easily-defined section of the Trinity Road Fairgrounds lot. The obvious solution was (and still is) ratcheted up uniformed security enforcing existing rules in the easily-defined area of concern.

    But …. nooooooo …. like WKRP’s infamous holiday turkey drop …. something went wrong … terribly wrong. Compounding the SNAFU was the total stacked-arm stubborness of NCSU admins to admit they had “overkilled” just a bit (duh!).

    Repeal the draconian overkill measures immediately …. put 8-10 roving NCHP officers in the area of concern ….. and begin the TO’B Era with 50,000+ “good people enjoying a good time” at C-F.

    Incidentally …. C-F is either THE ONLY or one of just two stadia in the ACC still permitting “pass-outs”. Very very few stadia in America are still permitting that opportunity to “reload”.

    BobLee

  3. BJD95 05/10/2007 at 8:20 AM #

    With God as my witness…I thought a turkey could fly.

  4. noah 05/10/2007 at 8:21 AM #

    What would the reaction be if they let people tailgate all the wanted…but just enforced local law? I mean…like….really enforced it. We’re not Texas, we have laws on open beverage containers and laws regarding drinking on state property and obviously, there are laws on underage drinking and public drunkeness.

    What do you think the reaction would be?

    Whenever I hear people bitch about tailgating rules, the image that pops in my head is of a middle-aged guy with two kids in tow standing in line to get into C-F….drinking a six-pack as fast as he could before handing over his ticket. He wasn’t even taking them out of the ring tabs, he’d just pop one open, slam it as fast as he could, belch, and then move on to the next one. His kids were looking on with rather disgusted faces.

    I know that’s unfair. The overwhelming majority of people at football games are reasonable, sober, safe, well-behaved people.

    I’m still on the fence on the tailgating rules. But I know why there’s a problem….there’s a critical mass of people who treat college football games as an excuse to give in to their inner-alcoholic.

  5. noah 05/10/2007 at 8:26 AM #

    BTW…turkeys can fly. When I used to live waaaay out in the styx, I used to take my dog out to run in a rather large field. On the north side of the field was a pretty large stretch of uncleared woods.

    We’re out there one spring day and I’m watching Lucy sprint from one end to the next and I see something come waddling out into this clearing. It wasn’t unusual to see canadian geese in the mornings, but I never saw them past noon. Okay…those must be wild turkeys.

    About that time, Lucy sees them and starts tearing after them (she’s got about 300 yards to cover first). They hear her barking and flap their wings and fly away. I had no idea turkeys could fly.

    Turns out domestic turkeys can’t. They’ve been bread to have huuuuuuuge…tracts of land…full of white meat. Dark meat on birds are the longer, stronger muscles. It’s why a duck is almost all dark meat and why chickens and turkeys are full of white meat (except in the legs…which they use all the time).

    Ta-da.

  6. Girlfriend in a Coma 05/10/2007 at 8:29 AM #

    Noah was in line with a Conehead.

  7. noah 05/10/2007 at 8:33 AM #

    Ha! That’s about right.

  8. packpigskinfan23 05/10/2007 at 8:45 AM #

    as a student I dont BobLee at all… and noah, your right. but I am still going to get just as wasted as possible for the games. but I am a bit of an untraditional student(24yr old junior), and have learned MANY life lessons and have built up quite a tolerence.

    a little more cop precence(where is dantheman to hear me say that this?!?! he might faint!!) would help a lot. Those cops would have to be there to keep problems from happening instead of harrassing students however. its a football game. underage college students are GOING to drink. dont bother them unless its getting out of hand. have plenty of people there to back you up, but use it only when neccessary. with a force specifically set aside for the student/visitor lot and then the normal amount spanned out through the rest of the lots then everything would be fine. students arent gonna tailgate till at least the night before no matter what(IF then). your not gonna need most of the patrolmen till 5 hrs before game time anyways.

  9. LRM 05/10/2007 at 8:48 AM #

    For me, I never yielded my soul to the WPC just to see the game. For a lot of us, it isnt about the game itself; I can watch the game on TV. Win or lose, though, tailgating means we get to hang out with good friends a lot of us only see regularly on a few scattered weekends during the fall. It’s funny, I bitch every year that ticket prices go up, but that $100 parking pass is worth every penny.

  10. CaptainCraptacular 05/10/2007 at 8:51 AM #

    Rammer Hammer Yellow Jammer is hilarious. Good stuff. Highly recommended for any fan of college football and even academics who are interested in what drives fan mania.

  11. CaptainCraptacular 05/10/2007 at 8:54 AM #

    And Rammer Jammer Yellow Hammer is good too!

  12. BoKnowsNCS71 05/10/2007 at 9:05 AM #

    At least WKRP didn’t throw out the frozen turkeys.

    Back on topic, NCSU officials over-reacted. The incident that occurred happened on the State Fair Grounds parking lot — not in CFS.

    As I recall, I don’t think the people involved in the fight and shooting were State students nor had tickets to the game. They just came stoned and drunk to meet with their buddies at the SFG parking lot to get more stoned and drunk. THis could happen anytime, anywhere — 5 hours, 4 hours, 3 hours, 2 hours or within 1 hour before the game.

    I agree about enforcing the laws. I can’t recall a bad problem within CFS grounds – even when people got drunker in the past than they do now. Maybe the SFG police need to do their job or parking at the SFG should be curtailed. The NCSU Security has been good.

    Anyone coming to the game should have a parking pass and tickets. If they are going to allow student parking at the SFG, they can get a parking pass their in advance or for all games (general admission). But then again if Roy and Leroy from Fracasville want to get drunk and go visit their friends — what’s to stop them? Maybe not having a parking pass might deter that — maybe not.

    What happened at the SFG during one of our games could happen anywhere. If a person can do what he did at Va Tech on campus, anything can happen anywhere. No matter what rules one makes, it isn’t going to assure us of any safety. Violence, unfortunately, is becoming more prevalent everywhere — in shopping malls, on streets, in apartment complexes, etc.

    Thinking that 5 hours or 4 hours means anything to a solution or prevention is folly — it’s like trying to catch the wind in a net.

  13. packpigskinfan23 05/10/2007 at 9:11 AM #

    time limitations would actully put more in danger if there were ever to be a situation like what happened at VaTech. It would bring a mass of people in at a more specific time… and would alow a psycopath to better plan and execute.

    I know this isnt the topic of this thread… just good for thought.

  14. packpigskinfan23 05/10/2007 at 9:12 AM #

    good=food. excuse me for any misunderstanding.

  15. packof81 05/10/2007 at 9:14 AM #

    NCSU’s polices are consistent with those of Raleigh. Raleigh doesn’t want nightclubs with loud bands. Hillsborough street used to have about a dozen bars and clubs back in the 70s. There was once a vibrant fraternity scene and they had bands at their parties.

    Tailgating went on for decades before there was any trouble. Incidents like the shooting could have been avoided with a uniformed officers patroling the parking lots.

  16. noah 05/10/2007 at 9:28 AM #

    Tailgating wasn’t a problem for a long time because of significantly smaller crowds.

    I don’t think NC State attendance hit the 50,000 mark consistently until fairly recently.

    You’d get big crowds for Clemson and Carolina and ECU, but average attendance for average games was in the 40s for most of my life.

  17. noah 05/10/2007 at 9:30 AM #

    BTW, the problem on Hillsborough Street wasn’t the crowds and bars and bands ON hillsborough Street.

    The problem came when people started drifting off over into Cameron Park and taking a leak on people’s yards and leaving their beer cans and being rowdy.

    And if you’re thinking “Well, what’s wrong with that?” then go look at the property values for the houses in that neighborhood. I don’t think it would take that much effort to figure out why someone living in a $500,000 house would have a problem with a drunk frat boy taking a piss in his yard.

  18. TopTenPack 05/10/2007 at 9:50 AM #

    I am going to school at the other Carolina (University of South Carolina) and last fall happened across a public TV show called Barbecue America with Rick Browne. On the show they highlighted the Q-Shack in North Hills and the tailgating food at a NC State football game. The game was Georgia Tech last November. It was the saddest sight I have ever seen. No matter how the show tried to dress it up, there was NO ONE tailgating. Take your pick, a bad season or bad tailgating rules.

    The day Tom Staford leaves will be a good day for the student culture of NC State. It cannot get much worse.

  19. whitefang 05/10/2007 at 9:52 AM #

    The admin at State just doesn’t freaking get it again and again. Damn, the only reason I go to a college football game anymore is to tailgate. Of course my alma mater is State and my season tickets are now at UVa (kids there) so that is part of the reason I’m sure. I still love football with a passion, but watch a lot on TV. Take the tailgating out and I would probably be pretty much done with driving several hours to a game, getting a hotel room, buying chicken ,etc, etc. I am 100% sure my wife would be done. Sometimes we don’t even go into the game and she rarely does. Does the city of Raleigh and the admin at State realize how much money tailgating generates?
    After having 2 kids in a row playing HS football I don’t think I ever want to go to another high school football game. I was at a HS game every Friday night in the fall for 7 years in a row. But we tailgate there too so I told the rest of the group that I would still buy my parking pass for the home tailgates, pick up the chicken and the mixers, but go home when the game starts.

  20. noah 05/10/2007 at 9:55 AM #

    “Does the city of Raleigh and the admin at State realize how much money tailgating generates?”

    How much money does it cost in overtime to have a significant highway patrol force in place to handle parking, traffic, law enforcement, etc?

    (I dunno…I’m just curious whether it really is a revenue generator)

  21. LRM 05/10/2007 at 10:12 AM #

    I’ve always assumed the Athletic Dept. foots the bill for troopers and policemen. Does anyone know if that’s correct?

  22. Mr O 05/10/2007 at 10:14 AM #

    Noah: We didn’t hit 50K+ until the Amato era. That is probably Amato’s biggest accomplishment during his time at NC State. He made going to NC State games a big event.

    Putting a time limit on tailgating is a bit ridiculous, but as someone who has alway gone to games early a five hour time limit doesn’t impact that many people. Apparently, every one of those folks must post on the internet because there can’t be more than several dozen(at most) cars in the parking RBC or CF parking lots five hours before kickoff.

    There used to be a few more cars in the Trinity lots, however IMO that was more because it wasn’t assigned parking. You had people trying to get as close as possible and almost everyone in that lot trying to save spots for friends coming later, so someone in the tailgating party would get there more than five hours early. Still, that was usually very few people in terms of numbers as most of the people came later than five hours.

    Five hours is a reasonable amount of time IMO. Four hours was unreasonable.

  23. old13 05/10/2007 at 10:17 AM #

    The “sleeping giant” will continue to sleep until the school administration gets out if its way. Oblinger has already renegged on his promises of athletics support made in his first speech as chancellor. Guess he’ll be applying NCSU for the Ivy League soon.

  24. ncsumatman 05/10/2007 at 10:17 AM #

    I would make an argument that limiting the allotted time fans are allowed to tailgate would only increase the probability of an unfortunate incident. Doesn’t a time restriction encourage binge drinking, isn’t that why the father of the two boys was killing beers as fast as he could, b/c he only had a limited time to do it (till he got to the gate).

    Unfortunately, we can’t compare Alabama and/or Clemson. Alabama has the Quad, and shuts down Bryant Drive for games. Death Valley is in the middle of Clemson’s campus, Ole Miss has the Grove, etc. etc. etc. We have an inaccessible, inconvenient forum for games which will continue to cause tailgating problems as the fanbase grows.

  25. noah 05/10/2007 at 10:23 AM #

    What goes on in the hours in hours five, six, seven, etc that makes the difference? (I’m honestly curious).

    If the problem is drinking and drunk people, is the problem with the people who go out waaaay before kickoff? Are the drunks that are a problem out there at the crack of dawn getting hammered? Or are you just cracking down on the guy who wants to cook a whole pig at his spot and is minding his own business?

    If the problem is drinking and drunks…I’d think a far more effective (and highly unpopular) thing to do is simply enforce the law.

    Fine, you can tailgate from Friday to Monday. But you still can’t drink on state property…or you can’t be publicly intoxicated…or we’re going to enforce open beverage container laws.

    Seriously, if you knew that if you got trashed at a State football game you’d spend the night in the pokey, would you still go to games? How about if cops made a point of writiing tickets for drinking from bottles and were aggressive about checking IDs and busted those idiots who bring kegs to games and then sell beer to everyone else? Would you go?

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