10/13/2014 at 1:29 PM #5892613OTParticipant
“We’re simply not a program that can fire a coach after two years and expect to upgrade.”
And therein lies the problem. We are a program that kept its last 3 coaches for at least 5 years each, knowing full well during most of those lengthy tenures that these coaches were not going to significantly elevate the level of Wolfpack football beyond mediocrity. But we stayed the course and kept ’em anyway.
Now, we’re two years into what many if not most Pack fans would consider yet another coach fail, but dammit, we’re determined to pound this square peg into that round holem so we’ll just gonna keep hammering away for another 3 years. Or 4. Or whatever.
Tom O’Brien didn’t win any popularity contests with Wolfpackers with his boring brand of football, but NCSU football under TOB wasn’t firmly entrenched with Wake Forest as the ACC’s doormat program. Now it is.
Somewhere out there, a football coaching staff that could turn this program around is lurking, but as long as fatcat Wolfpack administrators continue to roll in WPC monies, why should they abandon their comfort zone with any drastic changes?
There is no Division One football program in America that gets less bang for the buck than the one here in Raleigh.10/13/2014 at 2:25 PM #58932MattNParticipant
The problem with showing Doeren the door in year 2 is that you must also show Yow the same door. 2-and-out for Doeren would clearly be admitting to a monumental high-level hiring failure and the person responsible for that high-level hiring failure must pay some sort of professional price. Are you going to trust the same AD that got it so wrong two years ago to make a correct hire two years later?
It’s not like we’re asking for rocket ships to the moon. 2 wins against poor-mediocre ACC teams. Is that so freakin’ hard? If so, then perhaps everyone does need to be shown the door.10/13/2014 at 2:53 PM #58937ryebreadParticipant
The Captain (Yow) is going down with the ship. No way she cuts her own throat. She has to hope he succeeds and needs to do everything she can to make him succeed.
When Yow wanted to let TOB fail, she was naturally going to take a hands off approach, set goals, make them public and then hold him accountable. When the employee she hired to replace him with starts floundering, she’s going to have to take a more active, hands on, but behind the scenes approach.
If we continue down the currently reasonably expected path (1-2 wins in the ACC this year), then I expect we’ll see some staff changes. DD may not like them, but DY might “help” “nudge” him. I think the coordinators will be the scapegoats, fair or unfair.10/13/2014 at 3:39 PM #58940ncsu1987Participant
^ryebread (back a page): thanks for the detailed response!
As I mentioned, I don’t know enough to know if you’re right, but it sounds logical. Turn the question around and speculate with me: let’s stipulate that we’re playing man in the secondary (looks that way to me, too). Given that the current approach clearly isn’t working, and switching from man to zone seems like a logical choice (again, I have to agree that it seems logical), what are possible reasons that the staff might not do it? What would they know, what would they have seen, that we don’t/haven’t?
Blitzing: love this idea. I’m a defensive-minded fan, love hard-hitting, low scoring games, where a single mistake can be the difference between winning and losing. Adding in blitz packages to confuse the offense seems like a no-brainer to me as well. So again, I turn it on its head: Huxtable might not be the world’s greatest DC, but he’s a pro, and I’m sure he has some blitzes in his bag of tricks. Why would he be holding off on this, when it seems so obvious to us? Can you speculate?
As I think more and more about last weekend’s game, especially in light of the excellent work by jrcox4 on the recruiting analysis, I agree with you that we let a great opportunity slip away last weekend. I also agree that the team appears to be playing very tight. Everybody was worried that we’d let FSU beat us more than once. While that may have happened at Clemson, I don’t think that was in play last Saturday. I think you’re right – the 0-fer/ACC monkey is starting to pile on the pressure.
Thanks for your observations.10/13/2014 at 4:09 PM #58947ryebreadParticipant
I suspect the staff would say that they blitzed on X percent of plays and I’m sure X would sound high. I’ve not mapped the plays, but even if I did, I think that our defensive philosophy is fairly vanilla. I can’t remember a jailbreak blitz, edge blitz or zone blitz this year. I’m sure they’d say we’ve run them and it’s just my poor memory or inability to actually see the play.
I’m also sure they’d say that they couldn’t switch course mid season. This isn’t video game football and you can’t change course mid season. Lord knows we heard that enough from TOB and from HWSNBN. As much as Lowe was an epic failure, he was at least willing to try something different.
I’m sure the staff would say that they’re showing recruits how they want to play defense, and they’re going to recruit and build towards it. They did the same with the offense last year. I guess that’s valid because I’ve long argued it is better to take lumps early when there’s still blame to pass on the previous administration, particularly if it helps with recruiting. If you try to maximize wins early, it becomes harder to sell that change.
I’m also sure that the staff would say (and DD said it this week) that the cupboard was empty. I’m not arguing to the contrary, but I am concerned that the defense this year looks worse than it did last year. I’ve been schematically concerned about the offense since watching N. Illinois tape, but that is another discussion. I figured the defense would be more sound. That is concerning to me given this is year two and with each passing year there is more influence of the new staff.
I also think it is increasingly difficult to recruit in the face of poor performances. There will be a certain point where PT and a promise of things to come won’t really matter. The product on the field will be the product on the field. We saw this with TOB — where his best year of recruiting was his first.
I definitely think that 0 fer is starting take its toll. BC was important for that reason. Now the pressure will really be on against Syracuse.
Regardless, I don’t think any of it matters. DD is back for at least 2-3 more years. Our best path as fans is to rally behind the team, support them and hope for the best. I do expect to see staff changes though.10/13/2014 at 4:55 PM #58949WulfpackParticipant
Seeing the forest from the trees, and restating what I’ve said earlier, we can still go on to have a decent season. Just beat Cuse and Wake, maybe UNC, who knows. That would be a very good year by comparison. And it still is absolutely a possibility.
I really don’t mean to be negative toward Doeren. He was handed a very bad stack of cards, we all know. At the same time, some of the performances have been subpar even for a bad team. When your players are questioning the team’s effort, in a home game that really does mean something, one begins to wonder. Follow that up with our guys playoing Cowboys and Indians following a wrenching loss, and one wonders more.
Put it behind you and go win one. Give us a reason to be optimistic going forward. Some are just a little too rosey for my taste. I see it as it is, and right now, his product hasn’t given us much to see. It can change quickly, it really can. Especially in this dry conference.10/13/2014 at 5:14 PM #58951RadmanParticipant
I haven’t seen anything to be too excited about on the field. I do believe recruiting is heading in the right direction. I think it is WAY too early to make a judgement on the future of DD.10/13/2014 at 5:27 PM #58952Pack85EEParticipant
Love the effort and the apparent results of recruiting. That’s the future. Just read we have 8 guys left from O Brian’s last full recruiting class. 8
DD came in saved the first class and added to it. Was solid his second, and this 3rd class looks to be solid for it’s size.
The defense is far younger than the Offense and it shows.
The two lines are where our experiance are, but no one is saying that’s a point of strength. So, O Brian did not leave superstars there.
But another point about players is sometimes coaches are similar and they get the most out of what is left. DD plays a differnt game and he needs his guy.
It’s true that recruiting is very important. How could Mack Brown go 1 and 10 twice with UNC recruits. Apparently not his guys and not as good as he would get. I’m still trusting the path we are on. Support your team and coach guys.10/13/2014 at 9:13 PM #58960choppack1Participant
I reserve my blind faith for the Almighty… And even that is backed up by some circumstantial evidence.
I am willing to give dd 4 years unless he flunks the “really?” test. That would mean 1-7 or 0-8 and then 2-6 next year. See, this year doesn’t matter, he can only affirm my faith and put a feather in his cap.
Of course, I’d like deb to say “you know, because we have been really bad – we are going to reward you by giving you..” Or at least give me some idea of exactly when she expects to turn this Titanic around.
And dd – you have my tepid support. I think you’d be a good coach to play for..but don’t throw your kids under the bus.
I am being unreasonable when I say I consider a 3 win acc season a success?
Oh yeah, basspacker – tob was 9-15 his first 3 years in conference. (For reference CTC was 8-16 his last 3 years in conference. For additional reference, tob was 13-11 his last 3 years in conference.) I do think dy had to pull the plug when she did. We hired tob inc about 2 years too late in their career to ever get those consistent 5-3 seasons that they could have averaged in their prime.
3 hoppyums in 1 hour…and its like this: the first 2 years dd has had a chance to prove he’s a good coach and/or recruiter. Thus far, he’s recruiting well. I would be pleased as punch if he’s an ethical version of Mack brown at unc…10/13/2014 at 10:54 PM #58962redcanineParticipant
What did Kirby Puckett do when he went 0 fer 11?10/14/2014 at 7:22 AM #58964WolfbredParticipant
I was excited about Coach Doeren coming to State. I was surprised that he hired Coach Huxtable as I know of two defensive players who he coached at different schools who said he was the worst, most demoralizing coach they ever had.10/14/2014 at 10:56 AM #58972RickKeymaster
I love firing coaches as much as the next State fan. But the truly scary part is this: We’re simply not a program that can fire a coach after two years and expect to upgrade.
There’s absolutely no reason to do anything but hope for at least a mild turnaround next season, that gets us hopefully to a better 2016, and go from there. Otherwise, you are looking at a complete dumpster fire, even worse than we currently have.
I agree the state of State is pretty sad. I think that is part of the malaise. I see no light at the end of this very long tunnel.10/14/2014 at 12:56 PM #58981YogiNCParticipant
This whole thing is not like turning a john boat around and more like an air craft carrier. John boat = feet, air craft carrier = miles. It’s a long process. What drives me nuts is the woe is me attitude. Starting the season realistic expectations from most were 5 or 6 wins. That is still feasible. Why so many are looking over the edge and willing to jump I have no idea unless of course they had totally unrealistic expectations following being 4 – 0. The fact that we played #1, then a team that could easily be in the top 5 except for a few bad turns, and a team that beat a top 10 team on an extra weeks rest is more than viable reasons for not being successful in those games. Get a grip people!!! This ain’t the end of the world, and it isn’t even close to being as serious as ISIS, or giving the Iranians nukes.
Smarter than the average bear10/14/2014 at 2:46 PM #58983redcanineParticipant
Kirby Puckett used to pork fat ugly chicks to break out of a slump. We need to give it a shot before we lose 12 in a row. Put a bow on a Krispy Kreme box, y’all!10/14/2014 at 3:26 PM #58987
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.