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10/12/2014 at 4:20 PM #58834StateFansKeymaster
It’s mid-October in a 2014 college football universe where Mississippi State is (legitimately) #1, Ole Miss is (legitimately) #3, the biggest game in
[See the full post at: State Loses 11th Straight in ACC]10/12/2014 at 5:40 PM #58839GreywolfParticipant
Very well stated state of State’s football affairs. There is a real danger of the Pack not going to a “crappy” bowl. Not going to a bowl is not the issue, it’s the loss of “Winter Practice” which is the way I think of the extra practice time bowl teams get.
In the short term much is being made of our not having won a conference game under Doeren. Okay, but so what. If we had beaten, say Wake Forest last year, what difference would that make, really? What is both critical and important is recruiting — that and playing experience of some key true and redshirt freshmen. Winning a conference game per se is like kicking a field goal verses Clemson. It would stop the talk about a shut out but would make no significant difference. The only difference winning a couple of conference games makes is bowl eligibility.
Again SFN, thanks for a straight and fair statement on the state of State’s football affairs.10/12/2014 at 5:48 PM #58841
The goal every time out is to win games. If you aren’t winning, you aren’t going to be around long. That’s just the way it is. And he’s really not even close to winning. That was a beat down yesterday, to a team we should certainly be able to compete with. It’s not all on him but at some point he’s going to have to do something to change the course. Otherwise, somebody else will make that decision for him. Going 0-11 in the ACC is not good.10/12/2014 at 6:01 PM #58845GreywolfParticipant
If you aren’t winning, you aren’t going to be around long.
Wulfpack, I respect your opinion but I trust history more.
Frank Beamer first three seasons were 2-9. 3-8, 6-4-1 and didn’t go to a bowl in 7 years.
Mack Brown first 3 seasons were 1-10 and 1-10 and then 6-4-1 and five years to go a bowl.
Bobby Ross went 2-9, 3-8 and 7-4 in his first 3 years. Then a national title in his fourth.
George Welsh started off slow at Navy and at UVA.
Recently? David Cutliffe had 5 losing seasons before winning.
IMO All of these coaches proved to be the best head coaches these schools had. All of them had to change the culture of their programs and were able to learn and adjust on the job. It took bringing in their own athletes in and finding a staff that meshed.
Doeren has had his hands full from Day 1.
We’ve just had some exciting recruiting news and expect more. I’m trusting that Debbie Yow is not as trigger happy as some of the fan base. Coach Dave Doeren will make decisions, some tough, to move forward and improve.10/12/2014 at 6:12 PM #58846Fastback68Participant
Agree. We had the cutliffe discussion last year. Duke went 20-40 his first five years. Let’s hope our fan base can be as patient.10/12/2014 at 6:16 PM #58848Avid109Participant
“Coach Dave Doeren will make decisions, some tough, to move forward and improve.”
Coach Doeren obviously needs to make some tough decisions because the current approach is not working. He needs to either fire Huxtable or at least take a more active role himself in coaching the defense. On offense, too, there is a real need to mix the play calling more and not be so predictable. Those sorts of moves might not be enough to win against teams like Louisville, but it beats doing the same things over and over again while waiting for better talent.10/12/2014 at 6:41 PM #58849RickKeymaster
Agree. We had the cutliffe discussion last year. Duke went 20-40 his first five years. Let’s hope our fan base can be as patient.
That is with the assumption he will be as good as Cut with very little evidence at this point.
It seems some people always point to the few coaches that started off slow and then got better without pointing to the many more that failed and continued failing. It is honestly a weak argument. DD is going to get at least four years but he better start winning or he is cratering himself. Slick talk eventually stops working without wins.10/12/2014 at 6:43 PM #58850
Slick talk eventually stops working without wins.
This is not something I associate with Doeren.10/12/2014 at 7:01 PM #58851
Is it really an opinion to state that coaches across the country at major programs get fired for non-performance? Isn’t that just the landscape we are in?
Now if you want to argue it won’t happen here, I’m all ears.10/12/2014 at 7:13 PM #58852Fastback68Participant
Rick, let me clarify my post. Last year multiple posters lamented the fact that State did not hire Cutliffe which didn’t make sense since we would had to fire TOB four years earlier. I stated our fan base would never have made it five years with a coach that had a 20-40 record during that period. Personally, I think cutliffe has a lot to prove in terms of consistently winning over the next few years.
Which is the weaker argument, it takes 3-4 years to begin to build a winning program or DD should be winning more games through 19 games with only 1.5 recruiting cycles? I chose the latter.10/12/2014 at 7:28 PM #58853ryebreadParticipant
I said before the game that yesterday would show us the direction the program was headed in. I thought we’d win in a close one, but that it’d be lower scoring than many thought due to long drives by BC. We laid a complete egg.
Here’s a random assortment of thoughts:
– JB is forcing it. He has been for a while, but DCs have caught on.
– I hate the jet sweep plays. I can time that snap count every single time. If I can do it, defensive players can as well.
– I hate our rushing philosophy in general. It will work against teams with inferior offensive lines, but the last time we’ve had a superior offensive line was when we had PR and TA. I’ve said this for a while. I said this before we hired Canada. There’s a reason his last year at Wisconsin was a hot mess.
– I’m worried because Adazzio at BC inherited a worse situation than DD did at NC State. He’s now 2-0 against DD. More importantly, BC’s coach has established a clear identity and it is one that definitely can work, and minimally will make BC a very tough out. We have not, or even worse, our identity seems quite soft.
– BC made better in game adjustments than we did. Queue the talk about them having a by week, but the game was stopped for an hour, and BC came out much sharper than we did.
– This was an important swing game. We won’t be beating Louisville or UNC. Do we really think we’re going to take 2 out of 3 from GT, WF and Syracuse?
– I’m worried about the state of our defense. When we hired DD and his two coordinators, I figured we’d be better on the defensive side of the ball than the offensive. People can scream for the DC’s head, but it concerns me that a defensive minded head coach is putting out defense this bad.
– Our defense is actually worse this year than last year. Last year they seemed to tire out late, which was understandable given the offense was doing nothing. This year, we just come out and lay down.
– For all the schematic complaints, it’s not about the X’s and O’s but the Jimmies and Joes. Many positions including our LBs and RBs looked completely outmatched yesterday.
– We didn’t lose because Sade missed the FG, but Sade needs to make these things. It won’t be long before we see the staff “going for it” on questionable down and distance. Desperate times will call for desperate measures, particularly if there is a shakey kicker.
– I said before we fired TOB that the worst thing about hiring him would be how divisive he’d be. He’d never break through, but he’d always do well enough to have enough backers not to be fired. He was HWSNBN in football, hired by a man that loved HWSNBN. I don’t opine for the days of TOB, but there’s no way he’d have lost the last 11 conference games.
– The parallels of the HWSNBN successor to the TOB successor are possibly becoming hard to ignore. We hired a guy light on experience both times and are seeing eerily similar results.
– Regardless of what the fans think, DD is going to get a very long leash from DY. She’s boxed herself into a corner here. DD is her hire and she’s going to have to back him, particularly after her proactive move on TOB. She may have been right on TOB (and I personally think she was), but given her reputation from dealing with Gary Williams and the Fridge, she can’t afford to do anything but back DD and pray that he gets it done.
– We need to ditch the up tempo nonsense, and focus on sustained drives to rest our defense. We don’t have the depth or skill needed to pull this off.
– Don’t look now, but unless things change drastically, both coordinators are dead men walking. We have too many gaps that I can see as an uninformed casual fan. The big money donors will start grumbling and some changes will have to be made.10/12/2014 at 8:19 PM #58854AdventurooParticipant
Fortunately, some erected a large Safety Net BELOW the ledge. So, when folks get near it….it is NOT as dangerous as they think. However, all the sharp knives in the drawer have been replaced with butter knives.
Today, RW did not pull out his usual….”Watch me….I’m as good as Philip”. Philip had a good game, but it was NOT the blowout it should have been (SD 5-1 & Oakland 0-5) as the score was 31 – 58.
Jacoby IS pushing it….maybe a little too hard. Having watched his demeanor for half of the 3rd and all of the 4th, that lad was hurting. He IS as competitive as PR and RW. Glennon never, IMO, had that “I can WIN this game”. Jacoby also did it with expectations of having an OL. RW showed up what you COULD do with an NFL QB when you had a decent line at Wisconsin…
Logan, who shoots off his mouth, but does have some credentials pretty well summed it today. My wife commented (as did the announcers) that we were NOT expecting to play the second half on time. Timing was off. THEN, we had a LONG time to think about it.
Logan summed it….pull the batteries from the Lightning Detection meter….or get some of our super geeks to design an App to control it….
Coach D did NOT inherit any talent. He has not been a SLICK talker. Quite the Contrary…..he does, at least, say what is on his mind. TOB would just “sulk” and not even make eye contact and then give some glib answer. TOB had some good talent at BC and turned out some good teams. BC, unfortunately, does has this talent pool to draw from….and their lines have always been good….ask Matt Ryan about that.
So, back away from the ledge….you might get net burn.
I also agree that DY will probably give Coach D a little more latitude….and I think that is correct. I watched the JumboTron at the game the other day. Did you pick up HOW many QB’s we have playing. Did you look at the stats or the “triumphs” of the rest of the NCSU Pro Players?
We HAVE had talent….but we never had the total package….where we had the Line(s) and the Secondary and the Backfield and the Special Teams to put together a solid program. I can name several “Managerial” or Coaching Skills that Chuck and TOB and (keep going) were short on…
Coach D has put together programs and has a good record. HE is being challenged….no question about that. But, I think he will come through…
On to Louisville…..Clemson did not do too well….personnel issues. That would be a STELLAR first ACC and Road win. Maybe we ought to send Petrino a cute little Volley Ball player to get his mind messed up next week…10/12/2014 at 8:28 PM #58855Alpha WolfKeymaster
I wish I could share your confidence, Adventuroo. I see a team that has a terrible defense and a questionable offensive line, and no depth on top of that.
I also think that unless things turn around to some extent, Doeren will come into 2015 with his seat red hot.10/12/2014 at 8:37 PM #58857john of spartaParticipant
1. as Wulf said………he’s really not even close to winning.
2. and Avid………….the current approach is not working.
3. but ryebread wins….DD is going to get a very long leash from DY.
bottom line: prepare for more of the same for years.10/12/2014 at 8:46 PM #58858
Where did this, “not close to winning” think come from? We hung 41 on FSU.10/12/2014 at 8:58 PM #58859
Yea, and FSU hung 56 on us. Then Clemson torched us and five minutes in the game was over. Then
BC runs away with it. So yea, not close.10/12/2014 at 9:03 PM #58860gopack 17Participant
I get the long leash from DY but at some point even that is a fine line.
Remember the almighty $1 dollar rules. If folks start saying hey I have not interest in this failure any more, or BIG donors express discontent, the house of cards falls at some point, and DY can either be on the inside of the tent looking out or the outside looking in. No doubt, DD get’s another year and progress will need to be made, if not things come unraveled, and DY could feel damage as well.
It all rolls down hill at some point if “W”‘s are not being made in the ACC.10/12/2014 at 9:07 PM #58861charger17Participant
Wow, this is wild!
Winning cures everything. So, please continue to say what you will until we win again. BUT, when we do, step back for a minute and think about the long-term direction and what it will take to get us there.10/12/2014 at 9:26 PM #58862TexpackParticipant
The most troubling thing is the collapse of the offense. The progress I thought we had made looks like it’s been figured out by the opposition. JB has been under siege. Maybe it’s not having Thuney to some extent.
Is our defensive talent really THAT bad? Huxtable never has shown any signs that he has a clue. If there isn’t some improvement the rest of the way this year, I don’t see how he survives.
The main thing that still gives me some hope is that DD is a good bit better recruiter than TOB.10/12/2014 at 9:26 PM #58863john of spartaParticipant
charger….”Long-Term direction”, in my opinion, is:
1. the NCAA goes away.
2. college programs affiliate, just like minor league baseball.
3. Wolfpack athletics will be “independent” from NCSU in that:
a. no tax money goes toward ANYthing athletic.
b. all sports will be self-supporting. no cross-pollination.
c. this will be be the lay-of-the-land for all colleges.10/12/2014 at 9:57 PM #58865PrimewolfParticipant
The lack of discussion on Wolfpack football on SFN can only mean one thing. We truly suck and there is little hope for a turnaround any time soon.
I see no evidence that DD and crew are good or even mediocre coaches from any technical viewpoint. In fact, it looks to me they are in totally over their heads. He has hired a complete bunch of inept coaches, tacticians, and strategists. His only hope to survive is to fire both coordinators and rebuild his staff. He needs a consultant to help him because he doesn’t have a clue. Our players are regressing. Other teams have figured us out. It will be a very ugly ending this year. I fear for the future of Wolfpack football given that this may continue for a few more years.
Hiring a head coach with no real experience or proven record is a dice throw. 3/4 of such hires will fail in < 4 yrs.
DD recruiting seems to be adequate. Can/will he start over with new staff.
If he goes 0-16 in ACC, and his third year is also a disaster, Yow will can him. I predicted at the end of last year that of he didn’t replace both coordinators then, that he would be fired at end of year 3. Even with the talent deficiency, you can see how inept our coaching is.10/12/2014 at 10:03 PM #58866
Yea, and FSU hung 56 on us. Then Clemson torched us and five minutes in the game was over. Then<br>
BC runs away with it. So yea, not close.
Yes, I understand we lost. Close to winning is still losing.10/12/2014 at 10:18 PM #58867PackHoosParticipant
This staff has a ton of work to do. Recruiting, coaching, etc. And Doeren needs to quit putting his foot in his mouth, honestly.
We needed the bye week to be last week. We’re healthy right now, but guys just look tired. This isn’t an excuse, but it looks true to me. We’re battled tested, but we’ve failed every real battle we’ve had. Our defense actually made some good adjustments after the Eagles put up 21. Unfortunately, they put up 21 points the exact way that ANYONE who has watched the Eagles knew they would. There should have been 8 in the box from the beginning with two spies on Murphy from the beginning of the game. Instead, they ran all over us. And BC has a similar talent level.
Where the hell did our offense go? We make no adjustments throughout the game and leave Brissett back there to fend for himself. It makes no sense. Run some quick routes and quit running the god awful wildcat. We’ve been outscored 120-31 in the last 11 quarters of football. In all fairness, we’ve probably played the best 3 offenses we’ll play this season (BC runs for more yards/game than GT, actually, and they put up like 500 yards of offense against USC). But, our defense is giving up huge plays and are constantly in bad position. Some of this may be because we’re young, but some of this HAS to be lie on the coaches.
My guess is we’ll win a conference game or two this year. But, we’re gonna get blown out by GT because our coach will refuse to switch from the 4-2-5 and they’ll run down our damn throats.10/12/2014 at 11:09 PM #58869easParticipant
I could write a long post to go on for days basically repeating what has been said. However, IMHO we should be concerned most with:
1. Defense! It continues to be terrible. How many points have we allowed all year? Then again we must hold the world record for holding onto DC’s way too long.
2. Offense has really gone backwards. However, I do think there is hope and potential there.
3. Fatigue. I know we aren’t too deep but other programs seem to work through it. A bye week would have helped I guess.
4. DD – I like everything about him in general but bottom line is a win must come soon. Will I throw him under the bus? Absolutely NOT nor will DY with her extended leash. That being said “if” we go 0-16 in ACC play (I still think we can pull out 1 or 2) you really have to back to evaluate this relationship.
In summary, we are not on the good side of the crossroads at the moment. Possibly looking at another 0 win ACC season. DD has recruited decent thus far compared to TOB and I do like the new offense personally (if it gets back on track). However, if he doesn’t make some significant changes quick (starting with the Defense) he will continue to loose traction with supporters. You like or love a Coach all you want but more L’s than W’s will not keep him here. We need more talent no doubt but that ain’t the only reason we are loosing. I know TOB didn’t leave us with jack squat but dang it ain’t all his freaking fault. Must still be Bush’s fault….
My bad that was longer than I had planned to write.10/12/2014 at 11:26 PM #58870choppack1Participant
Grey – did beamer, cutcliffe, et al blame their losses on the players and tell a press conference and anyone listening “we just don’t have talent and/or experience to compete.”
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