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Why do so many of you keep asking why is anyone surprised?
I don’t think anyone is surprised. I think about everyone pretty much knows the situation. I think we all were just hoping that over time the likes of Lutz and other assistance would help mitigate Gottfried’s weaknesses. That clearly does not seem to be happening.
But, just because people are talking about the issues now as they are unfolding in front of us doesn’t mean that no one was expecting it to happen. We were just hoping that it wouldn’t.
The strange thing is that every time we’ve seen this type of performance in the past, his teams have turned around and surprised us. Heck, just one year ago at this exact same time in the season, we were 10-4 having lost 2 of our last 3 (with our only win being a squeaker at UNC-Greensboro). We had just laid an awful egg at home against Pittsburgh. What did we do next? When on the road and unexpectedly one at Notre Dame.
I’m not saying that is going to happen… I’m just saying that every year since he’s been here we’ve had valleys like this and the team has successfully delivered. We shall see if that trend continues.
I took the family to the game and was just beyond ill. The kids kept wondering why I never said a word…..well here is why (warning venting):
1. We have no desire to play hard. This team (well really all of Gott’s teams) plays so LAZY on both ends of the court!!!
2. Gott has no clue what line up to use (hint, it ain’t the one you keep starting).
3. Our offense is HORRIBLE. No movement at all and we only look for perimeter shots…WTH?
4. Anya is so lazy it’s sick. KW is a spaz. Cat is only good when he pushes/drives the ball. Etc…
5. There is NO intensity on this team at all.
6. Repeat..Offense is just amazingly bad. We only play well in a fast paced game so why do we keep playing at a snails pace.
I like Gott and his feel for the school/history. However, he has not “coached” worth a darn since he got here. Line ups are wacky, no organization, no pressure, no intensity, etc. Man we are heading for a shipwreck soon if we don’t figure it out.
I am sorry but the laziness and no organization (particularly on offense) is freaking killing me. It’s terrible. Come on Gott get it together!!
^ I also took my entire family as family day. It was miserable. And, I think the rest of your comments are spot on.
We could all turn a blind eye to all of the deficiencies as we were squeaking into the NCAA Tournament. But, if we don’t win, then all of those deficiencies get highlighted FAST.
Glad I missed this one. I’m going to reserve judgment until Jan. 14. They’ve got Pitt and then three straight against the cream of the ACC, including two top-5 teams in the polls. Yeah, they could very well be 1-4 in the conference by that time (and I think 3-2 is their absolute ceiling, btw). But win or lose, at least we’ll know at the end of that stretch whether this team has any chance whatsoever of competing this season.
Little pissed I wasted time money and effort taking my sons to that one. Will be the last time for this season I make that effort. The highlight for my oldest (15 yrs old) was standing next to Tacko (Taco) Fall, who was there for some reason, all 7 feet and 6 inches.
I thought the rec players at halftime looked better than the Pack for their ages, respectively.
Agree big time with identity. Alot of decent players with no go to. I have NO CLUE nor do they about what they are trying to do on offense.
FINALLY, the coaches need to recognize the clean-up that was supposed to take place last couple of year with bumping, grabbing on lane cut-throughs, handchecking and general rough play is out the window. Our guys are reluctant to play that way, but I did see Cat start bumping and delivering some body checks on defense 2nd half…and it wasn’t called. The refs are almost like highschool. No blood no foul. Accept it and start playing rough.
I commend the crowd for the in-unison booing on the “no call” missed goal tending. They called about 3. Missed a couple more, and completely wiffed on the one that got Gott T’d Up. these refs were so f’ing lazy they just quit watching plays. How the hell you miss more than 1 goal tend is embarassing. Unfortunately they are the least accountable guys on the court.
The crowd was ready to get loud yesterday. Just never were given a reason to.
First, Gottfried is the best upgrade we have had since Valvano. At the time he was hired he was at least willing to give it a try here when nobody else would darken our door.
I will support this team as long as he is here but I am afraid he has reached his ceiling as a coach. He recruits offensive players but he does not teach good defense which is the key to winning college basketball games.Gottfried is Yow’s guy but she has said publicly too many times that you perform or we will find someone that can. The next coaching search will be much bigger with respect to finding the right guy. I would not want to speculate when that will happen but at some time it will…..
I hope that Gottfried and staff can turn this train wreck around but its going to take hard work and a great deal of discipline to do so…..we shall see.
I read all this before right after the BC football game.
One of my pet peaves is posters who take the lazy way out by making wide generalizations about large groups of posters that are rarely accurate instead of actually addressing the issues being brought up.
To a point I agree with anscu87 but there is the issue of the here and now. Last BB game was horrible on many levels as have been some FB games but the general tone here has become “fire them all”. There is a pattern of bashing after a ‘bad loss’ then praising after a ‘good win’. As a fan base that seems a bit bipolar.
I greatly disappointed by the effort period but I will not attempt to micromanage. Those who say the current staff is worse that previous ones might be revisionists or maybe not. Time will tell on that front. All I know is I was not happy with the effort last night – first time this year I thought effort was totally lacking.Ya’ll know.. Michigan just hired Jim Harbough from the NFL..
I have no clue what kind of money that took to keep him away from other NFL teams (he won’t staying at SF)… but it was a couple of jillions and some great perks… like “King and Savior for Life ” on his parking space sign…We’ve had Case, Sloan && Valvano in my lifetime who are rough equal to guys like Harbough… so yes most all of us know the difference and no .. we not seeing what we’ve known with GOTT && Company…
{pause and consider}
Now… for all you other guys who are bored and restless and think a coaching search is the right thing to fix everything…
Three points…
1. Remember, four years ago… Coach GOTT stepped in when nobody else would after TurtleDick Gary Williams pissed in the pond…
2. Coach GOTT was a bargain… He’s paid his own way at NC State… so far…
3. These kids today ain’t the same kind of kids we played with and knew back in the days of C,S & V… so we all GOTT to adjust somethings in our way of thinking to really understand what’s going on — on and off the court…{pause and consider}
Then… if you still want to go for a new Coach…
Reach deep in your pockets and put your money on Dr. Debbie’s desk…
and go for it…Otherwise, let’s support the one we GOTT …
…in spite of the fact that yesterday’s game sucked in every possible way…
#NCSU-North Carolina's #1 FOOTBALL school!Bill,
I have a feeling we will have to hire a young up and comer. Very few name coaches leave their jobs, especially not for NCSU.
IMO Archie is going to end up being a great coach. His run in the tournament last year was not because of one great player (ala Davidson with Curry). It was with good team baskeball which indicates (but does not guarantee) good coaching.
Alas, it is irrelevant. Gott has earned the right to coach here for at least several more years.Bill, tractor, ancsu, etc.: I don’t think anyone is saying to fire Gott, at least I’m not. It’s just that I think we have probably jumped the shark (possibly in year 1), or at least we know about what we’re going to get with him. We’ll be a bubble team that will probably schedule our way in. We’ll typically be better at the end of the year than at the beginning. We’ll be a tough out in the ACC tournament and with the right match up could win a couple of games in the NCAAs.
We know the flaws too. They’re consistent year over year, regardless of players. Those flaws will what will keep us maddeningly inconsistent and not really ever breaking through.
Ironically, that’s kind of the definition of mediocre for a high major. When you factor in that we consistently have top 20 in attendance, and top 15 in overall program value, and at least one Burger Boy sitting on the bench at any time, it’s more like the definition of under achieving. I’ve seen several pieces of analysis that measure performance against various factors (brand value, money spent, talent, etc.), and NC State is the biggest underachiever in college basketball over the past 15 or so years.
The problem with hiring a coach like Gott is that they bring you to a very difficult decision. Are the results good enough? What is reasonably good enough given all the mediocrity that we’ve accepted since the late 80s? If not, how do you handle a transition? It’s always tougher to take good to great than it is to take bad to good.
I don’t believe the job was a tough sell last time. Yow undoubtedly made some rookie mistakes in the search, but I do NOT believe that we were turned down by all these candidates (like what happened with Fowler). It seems that we were waiting on Smart, and thought we had him wrapped up (probably a verbal agreement paired with something like “the lawyers are working out the final details”) and told other candidates that the guy was Smart. The way they all backed out within a 24 hour window clearly signaled they were told they weren’t it about the same time. Then Smart backed out, and we really were left holding the bag. Then there was the letter, and ultimately we landed Gott. Those other candidates couldn’t take the job given they’d publicly backed out.
Yeah, Gary was spewing vitriol and that may have had something to do with why Smart declined, but we had some really good candidates (Smart, Marshall, Cronin, Buzz and Archie and possibly Sean) who were clearly interested. We just mismanaged the end game and ended up with the only guy who didn’t have a current gig that he had to keep on the hook. The job was viewed as a good job though or we would not have had that caliber of candidates.
If a move were made at this point, the job would be a tough sell. It’s not a new AD wanting her guy in place after the last guy was an alum hire who was given a ton of time, but couldn’t get it done. Imagine trying to sell it after “X straight NCAA tournaments, and Yow and the fans still aren’t happy.” What kind of endorsement is there from Yow if she fired Gott after being so much in his camp? It will be about like the Fowler search after he’d called his fans the lunatic fringe and publicly painting a horribly inaccurate picture. Oh yeah, the ACC is tougher now too with the addition of Louisville, Syracuse, Pitt and UVA’s recent uptick. It’s not just Duke and UNC any more.
I suspect Yow is going to give Gott a very long leash. She really has no other choice (much as I said about DD when there were other suggesting otherwise).
I also suspect I know where this thing is headed. It’s not going to be pretty. The only question is how long it takes to play out and how much staff and player churn happens until the fan base sees the obvious.
I also suspect I know where this thing is headed. It’s not going to be pretty. The only question is how long it takes to play out and how much staff and player churn happens until the fan base sees the obvious.
I think so as well. I envision another Herb rift in the fanbase type occurance.
I think Gott could be an upper tier coach with some changes but he does not seem willing or able to make those changes.<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>ancsu87 wrote:</div>
I read all this before right after the BC football game.One of my pet peaves is posters who take the lazy way out by making wide generalizations about large groups of posters that are rarely accurate instead of actually addressing the issues being brought up.
Tractor got it. I see the flaws and issues like anybody else. However it is a long journey to March and the team is a work in progress. I just assumed we would have to search for our offensive identify for 2/3rd of the season after losing a player like TJ.
I watched all the football posts but kept my mouth shut. After seeing some of the same posters go from DD sucks to DD “can suck the chrome off a bumper” I decided to just point out that one fact. You can do with it what you want.
FWIW I clearly recall sitting in Mitch’s Tavern after some of Valvano’s WTF losses and listened to people wanting to tell him what lineups to use or thst we need to fire him.
I also suspect I know where this thing is headed. It’s not going to be pretty. The only question is how long it takes to play out and how much staff and player churn happens until the fan base sees the obvious.
I think so as well. I envision another Herb rift in the fanbase type occurance.<br>
I think Gott could be an upper tier coach with some changes but he does not seem willing or able to make those changes.If people are thinking think Gott = Herb at this point in his NC State career than I will agree there will be a rift. From day one Herb never showed me anything that I liked as a coach or person. If you can honestly say that about Gott than I have to respect your opinion but I don’t have to agree.
anscu87 I think we are mostly on the same page. I also heard some of the same about Sloan when sitting on a stool at Mitch’s.
Long term Gott might not be the deal. I will say things are better than anything since V. That brings that hard decision.
There were things I liked about Herb and many I did not. Ultimately the negatives outweighed the positives. Gott isn’t there for me at this time but it could happen.Some people need to step away from the ledge.
This was a bad loss, no doubt about it. Not bad because it was a D-II team and this is a team that will likely be a team in the NCAA field of 68. It was a bad loss because of the effort, which Gott already called out.
Can he fix it? Who knows, but give the man a chance. Name a team that does not have a bad game from time to time. Kentucky sleepwalked through a game 2 weeks ago against Columbia – really? Should Calislimy be fired and KY fans up in arms because a bunvh of 18 year old kids with other things on their minds had an off night? Had KY played Cincy that night instead of Columbia, they would have lost that game.
Is Gott the best coach in the league? No, but is Coach K? His teams seem to have a game or two like this every year, Lehigh and Mercer to name a few. He sounded really upset and disappointed – the things they had been working on were completely lost and he took the blame for some of that.
Who would you rather have right now leading this team? Robinson, HWSNBN, Lowe, or Gott?
In the words of V, who probably had more WTF losses than any coach, DONT GIVE UP, DONT EVER GIVE UP!
go from DD sucks to DD “can suck the chrome off a bumper”
LOL. Nice perspective on watching V at Mitch’s. I think I will join the “wait and see” crowd, even after listening to that POS game yesterday.
Pointing out deficiencies is not a bad thing. Having lived the Lowe years, actually on campus from 2007-2011, I will admit I was glad to see him gone. And I really enjoyed Gott’s first year, showed a lot of promise. Sadly, we’ve underachieve since. And I am beginning to *see* it all unravel. I still like Gott as a person, but damn, can we play defense? Can we bring the ball up court and get into our offense? Can we rebound? That’s all I want. Is that too much to ask?
Then… if you still want to go for a new Coach…
Reach deep in your pockets and put your money on Dr. Debbie’s desk…
and go for it…After the last coaching search, I’m not convinced that State (or maybe Debbie) can hire a big name basketball coach. It seemed to me that there was more interest in coaching State’s FB team than its BB team.
From day one Herb never showed me anything that I liked as a coach or person.
When Herb took his first team to the finals of the ACC tourney, I thought that State had made a great hire. Unfortunately, I was wrong.
I think most of us know the way the story ends and that is the problem. Gott is a solid coach and we can certainly do much worse – please see lowe and robinson.
Its year 4 here and he was at bama for a long time. He definitely learned the lesson when it came to scheduling. The only real question is whether or not he will slide to one side of the bubble or not. We saw what happened in Tuscaloosa.
I also suspect I know where this thing is headed. It’s not going to be pretty. The only question is how long it takes to play out and how much staff and player churn happens until the fan base sees the obvious.
I think so as well. I envision another Herb rift in the fanbase type occurance.<br>
I think Gott could be an upper tier coach with some changes but he does not seem willing or able to make those changes.If people are thinking think Gott = Herb at this point in his NC State career than I will agree there will be a rift. From day one Herb never showed me anything that I liked as a coach or person. If you can honestly say that about Gott than I have to respect your opinion but I don’t have to agree.
If you read my post and came back with Gott=Herb then I am not sure what else to say.
Like Rick and others have said, our attempt to become a better defensive team has resulted in us losing our offensive strength. Now we have neither. In Gott’s first season, we let Brown and Leslie run and score off the defensive rebound or set up the at-least-something-resembling-the-high-post. I can’t tell what we are playing now although BOTB has described it best.
This team still has a date with the NCAA… they just need to wake up a bit.
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