09/26/2017 at 8:14 AM #124284
Tractor57, thank you for being well within the minority and actually understanding the 1st Amendment!
I applaud the president for his patriotism, but I wish he would focus less on whether NFL players should be fired and more on making progress in his own backyard (Healthcare, Taxes, etc.).
As for the NFL, I applaud you for your independence from Tyranny, but I wish you would focus on protecting your players from things that will more likely directly impact them (the other players).09/26/2017 at 8:21 AM #124285
BTW , Tillman was killed by “friendly” fire and the military covered it up for 5 weeks.09/26/2017 at 8:25 AM #124286TexpackParticipant
I hate to be the one to upset the party but the Supreme Court decided at least 20 years ago that even burning the American Flag was protected free speech. Peaceful protest are every American’s right. Trump is a jerk.
The question at hand is whether or not NFL owners choose to allow political protests from their employees while they are on the job. Employers have the right to restrict some types of speech in the workplace. When they are off the clock their political protests can be as wide ranging as anybody else’s. The only technical point I’m unclear on is whether or not the National Anthem protests can be considered concerted,protected activity under the NLRA. My personal opinion is that protesting in a way that is viewed by many, if not most Americans, as disrespectful to the flag and those who have died defending it is probably counterproductive in the long run. We shall see how the dollars express themselves in the coming months.
Trump is most certainly a jerk.09/26/2017 at 8:28 AM #124287
Troll, you can only be so dense. The flag is a contrived symbol. The protest is about Injustice in this nation. Not standing for the anthem is communicating a protest about Injustice. The flag is just the tool. Think
Boy they’ve really got you hook, line, and sinker. I can’t even wrap my mind around how you are debating that the method these protests are using is to disresepct the flag, anthem, and country. I’m going to guess you think they are actually respecting and revering the flag during these protest.
They could slap your mom to the floor in protest and you’d be over there calling her dense for complaining about it.09/26/2017 at 8:29 AM #124288
One more and I will stop….”Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”….Winston Churchill.09/26/2017 at 8:46 AM #124289
Tractor57, thank you for being well within the minority and actually understanding the 1st Amendment!
I don’t think he’s in the minority at all. Freedom of speech is well understood from where I’m sitting. Maybe different perspective for you… are you hearing a lot of folks calling to prosecute these ungrateful idiots under some kind of law?09/26/2017 at 9:45 AM #124292TheCOWDOGModerator
The viewing of games hasn’t been this fun in a long time.09/26/2017 at 9:52 AM #124293
The games – or “the games”?09/26/2017 at 10:33 AM #12429440YdLineParticipant
Maybe I’m too old to relate, but I fully experienced the era of integration and the war in Viet Nam. I watched protests and demonstrations, flag burning, Klan shootings. I grew up in the segregated south, experienced and participated in racial banter, had a “colored” maid/sitter/nanny (whom I truly loved) and was frightened and sickened at the thought of integration which I lived through starting high school 1963. I understood the motives of racial protests, but not the burning and looting that (too often) accompanied. I was at State in the war protest era, even participated in one mass gathering as classes were being ignored in protest..??. Celebrated my #126 in the first draft lottery and anguished over the local draft board’s calling of those numbered up to #124….whew. The only sports related protest I recall was the fist-raised “black-power” salute as the USA relay team won gold in the Olympic Games. Neighborhoods where families lived and supported one another became “projects” where, due to the policy of welfare, family was replaced by a single mother with multiple children of multiple “baby-daddies”, respect of self and the value of self-reliance became too often spurned. I kind of understood what was going on in Penn State scandal.. Paterno grew up in an era that didn’t discuss homosexuals nor their issues. That was covered and hushed and only directly dealt with in quiet. He was a product of his era, that doesn’t make him criminal/negligent/abetting it made him human.
Seems that too many folk are way too sensitive.. want to react to every little word or misstep. Products of extremism, where nothing is minor. Weather is no longer just normal, but played up to the worst possible outcome..extreme. Sport is now more about the rules than the competition.. anyone think the FlaSt player was targeting Finley when his arm smashed into that facemask? Politics is today’s war. News is no longer what happened, but an opinion as to what was behind what happened. Our schools are no longer classrooms, but social indoctrination areas.
He has a “right” to say this.. they have the “right” to do that. Yes they do, but LIBERTY has always come with consequence. “For what profits a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul” What does society gain if can define and demand that everyone think alike, act alike, believe alike, treat alike, look alike, own alike, earn alike, speak alike? What part of LIBERTY do we then hold to?
"Don't ever give up"09/26/2017 at 10:39 AM #124295
AliasTroll, my comment is made in general and does not take any political stance. My point is that people on all sides think the 1st Amendment guarantees free speech, when it really just states that the gub’men will make no law ….
Maybe I’ll commission Yogi to do a more scientific study on this, but when I am consistently surprised by what seemingly intelligent people don’t know or have forgotten (myself included), then I’d be shocked if more than 50% of people realize the nuance within the text of the 1st Amendment.09/26/2017 at 12:00 PM #124298
One more and I will stop….”Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel”….Winston Churchill.
You are welcome.
McCallum09/26/2017 at 12:05 PM #124299
Mt take remains – boycott if you like, watch if you like. Same goes for NASCAR. My problem is the product on the field or the track not what happens before the event. If before the event is important to you decide on that.
The 1st has been crafted a bit into things like “you cannot scream fire in a crowded theater” which does place a few limits outside of gooberment control. But for the most part speech in a workplace (other than for organizing) is not protected speech – and there it is not a 1st amendment thing. For me it is time for Trump to put down the twitter box and let things move forward. I would never agree to making these protests illegal even if I don’t agree with them.09/26/2017 at 12:43 PM #124302
My bad, didn’t use Google just what I remembered.09/26/2017 at 1:05 PM #124306
Just seems odd to me that the NFL will fine players for wearing eye black with writing that says “Find the Cure” for breast cancer, or fine a player for wearing purple cleats to speak out against domestic violence, but allows, supportive of it even, the players and coaches taking a dump on the American flag and everything it represents. I just can’t get behind an organization that operates like that.09/26/2017 at 1:10 PM #124307
My bad, didn’t use Google just what I remembered.
Ain’t no biggie, we all make mistakes.
Like that time I attended a WNBA game.
McCallum09/26/2017 at 1:27 PM #124309
WNBA game? Was this part of your Summer Erb infatuation I have heard rumor of? Couldn’t resist. ??09/26/2017 at 1:36 PM #124310
‘Troll where did the NFL ever make any sense with rules, etc? I think they are in a gun fight carrying a knife here. Trump is also completely wrong – but the final say with be $$$09/26/2017 at 2:30 PM #124311
It is disrespectful to the flag and to the nation. The flag and patriotism is all we have binding us together. If you think of yourself as black, African, white, Asian, Hispanic, LBGT or whatever BEFORE you think of yourself as an American, that’s part of the problem. Unfortunately that is exactly what the left wants to do, divide. Good on Trump for calling a spade a spade. MAGA!09/26/2017 at 2:45 PM #124313freshmanin83Participant
Where have you gone Rick Monday?09/26/2017 at 2:54 PM #124314BassPackerParticipant
Ok, my take on this all. Yes, Trump needs to put down the tweeter crap and yes he could have defended his position better without calling them SOBs. But Trump did is no different and no more or less fueling the fire than Obama defending Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.
Not arguing players do not have the right to kneel. The point is free speech isn’t protection from consequences. Players are free to say or do what they want, but that right does not protect them from suffering consequences from that, including backlash from fans, booing, loss of sponsors, even loss of a job. Being disrespectful to the greatest symbol(s) of our freedom and Nation Anthem is not being proactive, IMO. The cause maybe just but the platform being used is wrong. Like some said, its their workplace, their believes and protest should not be thrown on fans at a football game must less during the National Anthem. If pay big bucks to go to an NFL game, I expect football players to play not display acts that most find offensive. Kind of reminds me of last week, a group of Jehovah Witness knocked on my door. Don’t push your beliefs on me specially in my home. Same can be said for players pushing their agenda at their job (game). I don’t like it when I a clerk at Walmart tells me Thank You and May God Bless You after doing a transaction. Its their workplace, not a place to push their beliefs on someone because they chose to patronize the business. Yes, they sound trival but its not what freedom of speech grants.
The NFL, owners or Goodell are two faced on this issue. How can they allow this so called freedom of expression while Tim Tebow taking a knee to pray to God(freedom of expression) was threatened to be fined by the NFL? A player who wanted to wear cleats sporting 9/11 never forget (freedom of expression) on their cleats threatened to be fined? Players celebrate a touchdown celebration (freedom of expression) threatened to be fined? John Kitna wearing a ball cap with a cross (freedom of expression) actually was fined. Current players kneeling during the national anthem (freedom of expression) it’s OK? This is why I have stopped watching NFL.09/26/2017 at 3:12 PM #124315
The NFL, owners or Goodell are two faced on this issue. How can they allow this so called freedom of expression while Tim Tebow taking a knee to pray to God(freedom of expression) was threatened to be fined by the NFL? A player who wanted to wear cleats sporting 9/11 never forget (freedom of expression) on their cleats threatened to be fined? Players celebrate a touchdown celebration (freedom of expression) threatened to be fined? John Kitna wearing a ball cap with a cross (freedom of expression) actually was fined. Current players kneeling during the national anthem (freedom of expression) it’s OK? This is why I have stopped watching NFL.
I know why, because the NFL leadership is terrified of being called “racist”. It takes a jerk sometimes to stand up to the left’s bull crap. Don’t get triggered but, God Bless Donald Trump.09/26/2017 at 3:13 PM #124316BassPackerParticipant
“If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.” – Ronald Reagan09/26/2017 at 3:17 PM #124317
WNBA game? Was this part of your Summer Erb infatuation I have heard rumor of? Couldn’t resist. ??
Wriogers loves Summer Erb.
I’m big on non stick Pam.
McCallum09/26/2017 at 3:20 PM #124318
It is disrespectful to the flag and to the nation. The flag and patriotism is all we have binding us together. If you think of yourself as black, African, white, Asian, Hispanic, LBGT or whatever BEFORE you think of yourself as an American, that’s part of the problem. Unfortunately that is exactly what the left wants to do, divide. Good on Trump for calling a spade a spade. MAGA!
Completely wrong and fully ideological.
Being American should be LAST on anyone’s list. It is the furthest distance from any true/organic meaning. It is the furthest from faith, family, community and land.
McCallum09/26/2017 at 3:46 PM #124320
Faith is separate. The Lord didn’t overthrow Rome. So while we are in grace, we should respect the authority we are under until we are called by said authority to sin, then we should resist. Of course each owes allegiance to himself, family, and his property before country. Land or Community is poorly defined. I am a pilgrim and a stranger.
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