State drops to 0-2 in ACC

15-16 Basketball72

Well…at least a team wearing white as their primary color with red trim managed a win at PNC.

Looking for a silver lining? Well, State ended up covering the point spread of 7 points by a basket!

State drops to 10-5. The loooooooong season gets longer…

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15-16 Basketball

Home › Forums › State drops to 0-2 in ACC

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  • 01/08/2016 at 8:23 AM #96406
    StateFans
    Keymaster

    Well…at least a team wearing white as their primary color with red trim managed a win at PNC. Looking for a silver lining? Well, State ended up cove
    [See the full post at: State drops to 0-2 in ACC]

    01/08/2016 at 8:51 AM #96410
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    We played well in stretches last night but obviously not well enough to win. We are a wreck offensively. Just not a whole lot of options but it doesn’t help when four guys stand around and expect Cat to be Iverson. And of course the free throw shooting woes continue. Very frustrating. HUGE swing game Sunday night. If we want to hold off Wake as a team on the rise we gotta knock them off. From what I have seen they are better than us.

    01/08/2016 at 9:47 AM #96414
    StateRed44
    Participant

    Look, the philosophy of having 7-8 players and the rest bench riders or walk ons is stupid in my opinion and has bitten Gott squarelyl in the arse this season. How can you expect to go through the season with 1 freaking guy at almost every position? You got to have at the bare miniumum 10 guys by YEAR 5 that you have no qualms about getting minutes. Yes, we could have had 10 this year with no transfers, but guess what…you have even more schollies to give to backfill any unforeseen circumstances. In this age you must plan for that crap anyway. Inexcusable STUPID roster management IMO. You can’t practice hard, you can’t play hard…simple as that. Something not right with this guy.

    01/08/2016 at 10:13 AM #96417
    Khan
    Participant

    If we finish last this year, at least we’ll get the first pick.

    Seriously, do we have a shot of finishing in the bottom 3 this year? I’m seriously asking. I don’t know who the worst teams are supposed to be this year.

    01/08/2016 at 10:38 AM #96420
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Seriously, do we have a shot of finishing in the bottom 3 this year? I’m seriously asking. I don’t know who the worst teams are supposed to be this year.

    Of course. If you take a look ar VaWolf’s analysis entering conference play postes a week or so ago, you will see we were positioned at fourth worse. Only teams behind us were BC, VT and Clemson. Well, since conference play started, VT has rattled off wins over yours truly and UVa. Clemson beat FSU and Cuse. BC is still winless.

    Best guess is we finish about 10th. BC is awful. I’m not a believer in Clemson. And GT stinks too. But even a 10th place finish is nothing to write home about.

    01/08/2016 at 11:00 AM #96421
    Khan
    Participant

    ^ Thanks, Wulfpack. I will go back and read that article. I missed it somehow. And I agree. Finishing 10th is not really a feather in anyone’s cap.

    01/08/2016 at 11:08 AM #96422
    13OT
    Participant

    We arrived almost an hour early last night, and there was already much traffic in and around the PNC. The lower level wasn’t full at first, but eventually it did just about fill up, and the crowd was very supportive. Much of the upper level was full, probably a good walk-up crowd.

    The game was lost in the first ten minutes, when UL raced to a 27-13 lead. They simply were running all over the Pack inside and their D bothered many of the State players. State simply got into a hole too deep to climb out of, although several times they made many of us think they would. Louisville is a tough, tough team, and is probably a Sweet 16 team, maybe better. The effort was great, but we were simply outmanned.

    In its quest to become a football conference, the league has instead become a more brutal basketball endurance contest. It’s too early to tell where we’ll fit in standings-wise, but there’s a fair chance we’ll play on opening day of the ACCT, or probably the 2nd day if not on Tuesday. As far as the NCAAT, way too early to rule it out. Having Barber gives us a chance to win many games we might not be expected to win. One of two of those just might get us into the Dance.

    I don’t have any problems with the way the team is being run right now. The only thing I’d like to see is an occasional appearance by some of the better “bench players”, which would rest the starters a little and fire up the crowd.

    Fans need to ease up on the personal insults. This team is NOT a good-shooting team and the free throw line exposes this. It may take a change in the way we approach future recruiting. Athleticism and dunking are important, but eventually we’re going to have to get more players, preferably forwards, who can knock down the 15 to 20-footer. Relying on dunks against stronger ACC foes Duke, UNC, UL, Pitt, Syracuse, Miami, UVA and ND isn’t likely to get us many quality league wins.

    01/08/2016 at 11:43 AM #96424
    mak4dpak
    Participant

    I honestly think the potential is there for a good team, only problem is the guys have to have more confidence in themselves, and they are not confident, and play hesitantly, waiting for someone else to step up. Right now Barber is the only one that has confidence. Our bigs have show signs of being capable at times, but they can’t be intimidated. And hopefully the return of Henderson will boost our team confidence. And lest I forget, make free throws. We could have won the last two games, had we been better at the FT line.

    01/08/2016 at 11:47 AM #96425
    ryebread
    Participant

    – I think apathy is starting to set in with the fanbase. I think most know “what we’ve Gott.”
    – I argued the “future revenues from more ticket sales” model was a complete joke when it was trotted out 4 years ago.
    – This team isn’t that good, but it’s probably more competitive than half of Lowe’s teams. Gott isn’t an awful coach like some are making him out to be.
    – The roster issues are solely with the coaching staff. They’ve chosen not to use the full scholarship allotment and have had issues with player retention (particularly of contributors, not the guy at the end of the bench).
    – Don’t insult the players.
    – Cat’s gone at the end of the season. No way we sign DSJ if he didn’t know he was walking in to completely run the show.
    – We’ll see another leave prematurely I believe. I suspect Abu is gone as well.
    – The thing about the Martins is that they’re seemingly a package. For them to transfer, some school would have to be willing to take both. I always thought we were one of the few high majors willing to do that the first time.
    – We shouldn’t have given the raise and extensions. A coach like Gott should be on a rolling year over year contract that is heavily incentive based.
    – The timing of Gott, Yow and DD’s contracts line up too close for comfort.
    – I’m trying to accept that Archie will never be the head man at NC State.

    01/08/2016 at 12:03 PM #96428
    Daniel_Simpson_Day
    Participant

    I think it’s worth reiterating that this Louisville team lost 83% of their scoring from last year. That was a team we beat in Louisville and many thought we should have beaten in the S16.

    That Louisville team had 7 departures. One graduated (W. Blackshear), two early declarants for the NBA draft (So T. Rozier and Jr M. Harrell), one dismissed from the team (Sr C. Jones), and three transfers (Fr S. Aaron, So A. Gill, So A. Agau). And they look pretty good despite the attrition.
    (all this info I gathered from their Wikipedia page so take that for what it’s worth)

    01/08/2016 at 12:08 PM #96429
    wolfpack92owen
    Participant
    ryebread wrote:

    – I’m trying to accept that Archie will never be the head man at NC State.

    That makes me queasy thinking about it as he is one of us and the kid can obviously coach.

    01/08/2016 at 12:14 PM #96431
    wolfpack92owen
    Participant
    13OT wrote:

    Having Barber gives us a chance to win many games we might not be expected to win. One of two of those just might get us into the Dance.

    I don’t have any problems with the way the team is being run right now. The only thing I’d like to see is an occasional appearance by some of the better “bench players”, which would rest the starters a little and fire up the crowd.

    My only gripe/concern about Barber especially after a game like last night is that he is getting hacked, knocked, bumped and whatever else you want to call it. We are 2 games in and I cannot imagine he can keep up the pace. Someone has to give him some help and relief. Twice late in the second half he got absolutely creamed going to the bucket, one was called the other not. Not too mention all of the hand slaps that Louisville was doing last night.

    I am afraid now the blueprint to how to beat us in in place. Limit Cat with extraordinary pressure and foul ABU and Anya regularly and make them beat you in the beat and on the line. Pretty simple actually.

    01/08/2016 at 12:23 PM #96432
    choppack1
    Participant

    As bjd correctly notes – gott has earned a pass. However, here’s the problem with a past – people remember it and it is fair to be judged on it – whether you like it or not.

    And IMHO – that is why you are seeing a combination of apathy and fatalism on the part of our fanbase. If Gott had pulled bama out of the tailspin a few years ago and returned the program to the level he had it at earlier, you would see more optimism. If we had some more inside help coming in, you’d see more optimism.

    I hate for our guys – and the staff – these are guys who care. Clearly, Gott is a decent coach – and we have from what I can tell – a group of good kids. Hopefully, they right the ship.

    01/08/2016 at 12:39 PM #96434
    Whiteshoes67
    Participant

    This is Gottball. The roster management problem is a big one this year. I get it, Lacy’s decision threw them for a loop, but even if he stayed, it’s not adequate scholarship usage. No backup PG, only 1 eligible SG? His teams have always had segments of each game, segments of each season, where the intensity and focus is lacking. Always. It’s most evident on the defensive end but it surfaces on the offensive end as well. Now, you don’t even have a full roster to practice against each other, how you think the focus and intensity is going to be? Gott didn’t sit players for dogging it early. He sure isn’t going to sit them now. I’m convinced Washington sat last year, not because of his poor rebounding or defense, but due to his shot selection and ineffective screening for Lacy and Cat. Sitting anyone for defense on a Gott team would be a first.

    01/08/2016 at 12:40 PM #96435
    ILPackfan
    Participant

    The guys have a chance to be 2-2 by this time next week. And then the bottom will fall out with games at UNC and Pitt followed by Duke coming to the PNC, then GaTech and Miami to close out the month. Best case scenario is probably 3-6 in conference play going into February.

    Yeah, 9th or 10th place is shaping up to be the ceiling for this team barring a miracle.

    01/08/2016 at 12:48 PM #96436
    redisgood
    Participant

    There are many issues for sure, but it is hard to take thinking free throws stand between 0-2 and 2-0 in the ACC.

    01/08/2016 at 12:50 PM #96437
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    I’m just worried we won’t even make the NIT at this point. It’s shaping up to be a real dumpster fire, or at least that’s the feeling I gets in my bones. Even with the pass I give that I truly feel is deserved…that is gonna suck for all parties involved.

    Totally understand the need to vent frustrations about it. I do it as well. Let’s just try to keep it in perspective and nuance as well. Think about where we are longterm, and what chain of events needs to happen in all scenarios.

    01/08/2016 at 12:58 PM #96438
    jake35
    Participant

    can we seriously just bulldoze the entire school and program and start over, tired of paying for all the therapy

    01/08/2016 at 12:59 PM #96439
    wolfpack92owen
    Participant
    BJD95 wrote:

    I’m just worried we won’t even make the NIT at this point. It’s shaping up to be a real dumpster fire, or at least that’s the feeling I gets in my bones. Even with the pass I give that I truly feel is deserved…that is gonna suck for all parties involved.

    Totally understand the need to vent frustrations about it. I do it as well. Let’s just try to keep it in perspective and nuance as well. Think about where we are longterm, and what chain of events needs to happen in all scenarios.

    Honest question to you. I know I am biased because I dont care for Gott but where you do honestly think we are in regards to long term as you posted above? Is the model we have now sustainable for future growth and wins?

    I dont think so. There is no rhyme or reason to recruiting, his post players appear to be regressing before our eyes, the offense(if you call it that) is choppy and has been for 3 years now, and there is seemingly no dedication to basic fundamentals.

    I would say that I think football is in a better shape now (not by much) because we havent gone off the proverbial cliff yet. I think this bball season and his past history of losing players in the off season has lite the fuse on this powder keg. We simply our not set up for longterm teams IMO.

    01/08/2016 at 1:06 PM #96440
    BassPacker
    Participant

    I like Gott but have to agree he can and is his worst own enemy. Some I get, some I don’t. No way he knew would see early departures and transfers. Well, maybe he knew the transfer was coming. Main thing I completely don’t get is his lack of using some of the bench warmers to rest others. I mean, is Kirk that incapable that he cant be on the floor 2 mins? If so why did Gott recruit him? How bout little Corch? Give the kid a chance for Chris’ sake. No way Cat can continue at this pace and be healthy and/or productive all season. The team free throw shooting can be a product of being tired. Gott to try something different because the other coaches gonna come at us the same game plan night after night.

    01/08/2016 at 1:06 PM #96441
    wolfpack92owen
    Participant

    Also I wonder if he has another train wreck season next year if Yow would pull the plug? Interesting to think about nonetheless.

    01/08/2016 at 1:12 PM #96442
    StateRed44
    Participant

    This team misses something that CAN”T be fixed. It’s depth. It’s the coach’s philosophy to only give 7 guys any run, therefore we can’t fill 12 scholarships. In a year where 3 guys leave unexpectedly we should still be able to go 9 deep easily. Tyler Lewis has been gone for 3 friggin years. WHERE’s the back up PG????? Even better where is NEXT year’s backup PG? Where’s the big man enforcer? Where’s the offense off the bench? Must haves for any legit team. This is basic scholarship management stuff.

    Guy has like coached his whole life. I don’t see this crap changing in the future. Yes this job is hard, but fill up the freaking roster dude, Good Grief another year wasted on crap basketball

    01/08/2016 at 1:13 PM #96443
    Wulfpack
    Participant

    I think it’s worth reiterating that this Louisville team lost 83% of their scoring from last year.

    Yes, I made that point at the beginning of the game thread last night. Some seem to think we are the only school with early departures and roster turnover. I know we aint Lville, and he’s not Pitino, but…

    Also I wonder if he has another train wreck season next year if Yow would pull the plug?

    My best guess is no. She has anchored her NCSU career on Gott and Doeren. Two sinking ships IMHO.

    01/08/2016 at 1:19 PM #96444
    BJD95
    Keymaster

    Going into this season, I liked where we stood as a program very much. B+ coach who thought outside the box, which is the best way to succeed here (but still recruiting topline, elite talent). This is especially good value FOR THE MONEY.

    We’ve simply never made the mega-dollar commitment in either sport that the elite class have and keep doing, and shackling ourselves to the lowest paying conference ad infinitum ain’t helping matters. Poor strategic thinking.

    Speaking of which. The last two coaching searches (and some unfortunate public comments made by the AD at the end of search 2) REALLY hurt our brand. We are damned fortunate that MG succeeded to the extent he has so far, or we would be looked at as a joke. That said, we have slowly built it back somewhat. But a few things need to happen before our next search.

    First, it would be nice not to hire from a position of panic. I see no reason for MG to suddenly crater and stay cratered from one bad season. We will recover, at least partially. If not where we NEED to be, we can make the move from a more stable position.

    Second, no coach with options is going to sign up not knowing who his boss is going to be. Thus, a new AD has to be in place with DY so obviously close to retirement. Even if she wanted to stay around 5+ more years…I don’t want her running another mens’ hoops search after what she said about our job last time. Period, full stop.

    So, that foundation has to be laid first. I think if this season is crap (99% likely, this coming from someone who objectively LIKES MG), the AD transition needs to happen stat. Evaluate MG, while the new AD gets settled and puts his or her stamp on things.

    Handle things wrong, without the proper foundation, and you will get a WHOLE LOT worse than a B+. This ain’t like moving on from a Sid, a Chuckles, or even a HWSNBN.

    01/08/2016 at 1:29 PM #96445
    ryebread
    Participant

    If we go get two to three serviceable big men, next year is shaping up to what *should* be a decent year. We’ll have DSJ replacing Cat, TH back, Dorn ready to go and hopefully enough big men to be able to go 2 deep and play 4. If that team can’t be a top 25 type of team and solidly on the positive side of the bubble, then maybe Gott will get some heat.

    Until then, I suspect he’s getting a free pass from Yow. She seemingly likes him personally. They share the agent. There was “the letter” that showed us just how bad her basketball coaching search was (and thus likely not something she wants to repeat). There is the TH injury to help make for a convenient excuse. TL is harder to excuse because the staff wouldn’t have Rowan if not for Lacey’s departure.

    There’s enough there along with the extensions and the two Sweet 16s to get a free pass this year. It’s not a mulligan, but it’s highly unreasonable to think any real pressure will come to the basketball coach the first time he misses the NCAAs after the previous four years. Yow really can’t do anything other than give Gott a long leash because of how the last search went, and the stuff with GW. If she’s trigger happy with Gott, then no good coach in their right mind would walk into that situation while she’s still there.

    To 92owen’s point though, I don’t have a ton of faith that Gott’s the guy that is ever going to break through at NC State. Am I pleasantly surprised and appreciative about the results thus far? Yep. I think we’ve seen about the ceiling though (maybe an Elite 8 run in there). There’s nothing that I’m seeing that suggests we’d ever win a conference or national title. I think it will eventually get to a HWSNBN type discussion of just how much is good enough.

    I’m just more saddened by the Miller brothers. Sean seemingly wanted the job when we hired Lowe but Fowler wouldn’t do it. Now he’s on a roll at Arizona. Arch wanted it when we hire Gott, has done well at Dayton and will probably be hired this year or next by a high major. In fairness to Yow, I didn’t think Arch was seasoned enough at our last hire, but it is going to be a shame to watch him tear it up at another high major that is not NC State because of bad timing.

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