N&O: State’s Stagnant Season

The N&O’s Joe Giglio jumps into a retrospective of the Wolfpack’s 7-5 season in this article.

Article Highlighs #1  

Lots of interesting numbers in the article…that basically point to the simple conclusion that “we don’t suck as much as we did in Doeren’s first year”

To Doeren’s point, in 2014 N.C. State lost five ACC games by an average of 23.4 points and two games by more than 33 points.

This season, N.C. State lost five ACC games by an average of 13 points and didn’t lose any by more than 17 points.

[snip]

The Wolfpack sprinted out to a 28-0 lead at Wake Forest on Oct. 24, for its first win in Winston-Salem since 2001.

It had a 20-19 lead on Clemson, the No. 1 team in the country, with a minute left in the first half. Just the year before, the Tigers destroyed N.C. State, 41-0 on the road.

The Pack also held a 17-7 lead at Florida State, a place it had been out-scored 83-17 on its previous two trips, midway through the second quarter.

Ultimately, I think the season boils down to two games where Doeren & Co failed to deliver that would’ve been transformative for both our record and for our relative positioning against our competitive — Louisville and at Virginia Tech. Had NC State not laid tremendous eggs when given the opportunity to win both of those games we would all be feeling SO much better; but, interestingly, I believe that our bowl placement would probably be identical to how we ended up, regardless — we’d be in Charlotte at the Belk Bowl.

My summary points are as follows:

(1) N.C. State (7-5) finds itself a day before Christmas in nearly the same exact spot it was last year, with the same record and almost the same vital statistics, albeit with a loss to rival North Carolina in the regular-season finale instead of a win.

(2) Early October losses to Louisville and Virginia Tech, in particular, extinguished any hope of the team’s preseason goal of “raising the bar.” Key lapses, like in the first quarter of the Louisville game or second quarter at Virginia Tech and the opening quarter of the UNC game, crippled N.C. State’s chances at surpassing last year’s win total.

(3) Given the 3-5 finish in the ACC, even with rare road wins at Wake Forest and Boston College, the negatives counter-balanced the positives. That explains an equally unsettling answer to a different question.

We will definitely have more coverage and commentary on football through the Pack’s Belk Bowl battle with Mississippi State (see uniforms by clicking here).

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Home Forums N&O: State’s Stagnant Season

This topic contains 30 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  Pack1997 3 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 31 total)
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  • #95155

    StateFans
    Keymaster

    The N&O’s Joe Giglio jumps into a retrospective of the Wolfpack’s 7-5 season in this article. Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/colle
    [See the full post at: N&O: State’s Stagnant Season]

    #95159

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    I disagree a little bit, in that I think we ABSOLUTELY could have played with the Holes had we bothered to show up as hungry as they did.

    And Louisville and VPI played out the way they did because of the candy-ass schedule. It’s a bitch goddess, you can say “hey, it got us the 7 wins that vaulted us over everybody into CLT” BUT with the other hand it meant we were WOEFULLY underprepared for the challenge of facing what would turn out to be our two best “reasonable proving ground” opponents of the entire season (both of which were markedly more battle tested and ready than we were), as everyone else down the stretch (once we caught our breath and got up to speed) was either out of our league or a sack of shit.

    Again, I can understand how and why it happened THIS YEAR, it just needs to never f-cking happen again. It’s not how competitive programs operate.

    #95160

    choppack1
    Participant

    This year wasn’t about bowl games, as correctly noted, it was more about failing to take a more tangible step forward.

    I will say that the game that I find most encouraging is the game @ FSU. We have given the best opponent we played in Raleigh a run for its money all 3 years, but against our best road opponents, we were destroyed… Not this hear.

    We will see. I think next year we likely take a step back as we break in a new qb, but I think you give DD a chance and a few more years to see if we can build and sustain something here in Raleigh.

    #95161

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Tougher schedule = big step back next year.

    #95162

    WTNY
    Participant

    I think next year we likely take a step back as we break in a new qb, but I think you give DD a chance and a few more years to see if we can build and sustain something here in Raleigh.

    I understand the thinking, however given what is shaping up to be a stinker of a year in basketball, I doubt the Pack faithful will be in a patient mood.

    2016 is shaping up to be an ugly year for the Pack.

    #95163

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    Tougher schedule, maybe we grow up faster and are ready for what October brings for a change. No reason to pre-emptively wave the white flag. Plus, Jacoby had a very disappointing year (not to say it can’t get worse because it certainly can and we have all seen it – from Jay Davis to Marcus Stone to ughhhhhhhh Daniel Evans).

    #95164

    TheAliasTroll
    Participant

    I was never sold on Dave being a step up from TOB anyway. There’s no evidence of him being a program builder, just a coach who was able to sustain an already built program with an upper classman near NFL caliber QB (Lynch landed in the CFL I think) in the Mid-American conference for two seasons. That’s it. That is the extent of his track record as a HC.

    When Dave criticized our fans in the first home game he coached here when we were playing Fordham (or whatever crap team we playing against) for not having the entire stadium packed for the start of the 3rd quarter really rubbed me the wrong way. Play some quality opponents and get us ranked in the top ten (or hell top 25) and see if we don’t rip the goal posts out of the ground and carry them to the local Waffle House after a win. Until then STFU and focus on YOUR job.

    #95165

    Rick
    Keymaster

    I think next year we likely take a step back as we break in a new qb, but I think you give DD a chance and a few more years to see if we can build and sustain something here in Raleigh.

    I understand the thinking, however given what is shaping up to be a stinker of a year in basketball, I doubt the Pack faithful will be in a patient mood.

    2016 is shaping up to be an ugly year for the Pack.

    I hope you are wrong but fear you are right.

    #95166

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    I’m just saying, we could actually be a better football team next year, and end up with a worse record (probably by a game).

    #95167

    tractor57
    Participant

    Maybe I’m a bit different but I tend to separate sports. Both MG and DD have to stand on their own. On the AD level I do combine things. All I can say these is we are much better off without Jed.

    #95168

    wolfpack92owen
    Participant

    We will see. I think next year we likely take a step back as we break in a new qb, but I think you give DD a chance and a few more years to see if we can build and sustain something here in Raleigh.

    I have absolutely no inside sources or anything of the sort. So I ask is there any buzz at all about Jalen Mc? He was a high recruit and has great size and a good arm its just peculiar that we didnt see him more this year or. To my knowledge we heard virtually nothing about him at all this season. The pessimist in me thinks that is a telling sign from the coaching staff. I hope I am wrong.

    #95169

    choppack1
    Participant

    I think the situations are totally different…. One guy has coached in major conferences for 15 years, in a sport where changes can happen quickly… The other has just 3 years experience where it takes several years to build something (especially at a school like NC state).

    As for fan support. He kind of has a point. We don’t like to think of ourselves as fair weather or fickle, but to a certain extent we are. IMHO, pass outs are a huge issue. (I say this as someone who utilizes them)
    But on TV it looks terrible… And we can’t expect much of a change in our football fortunes when recruits see that. Don’t get me wrong, as fans we are pretty much walked all over and while DD shouldn’t have called us out..we can’t expect much or expect a good coach to stay unless that changes.

    #95170

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    NC State football is a difficult job. Period.

    And we REALLY don’t want to see where our market position is there right now. Doeren has two more full seasons before anyone should even ask questions, in my view.

    #95171

    wolfpack92owen
    Participant

    NC State football is a difficult job. Period.

    And we REALLY don’t want to see where our market position is there right now. Doeren has two more full seasons before anyone should even ask questions, in my view.

    I agree its a tough job but for different reasons. We have too many Div 1 schools in this state and we are pretty much in SEC country. (for recruiting anyway) Thats why I think a) we were dumb to fire Chuck and b) we need a gimmicky offense to compete. I would love to see the Air Raid in Carter-F.

    However I disagree with you about the market position comment. I think the infrastructure (fans, facilities, nice stadium etc) is in place for just about any one to come here and coach as long as you pay them. That always seems to be the rub with NCSU.

    #95172

    Rick
    Keymaster

    “And we can’t expect much of a change in our football fortunes when recruits see that. ”

    Maybe I am wrong but playing crappy teams and not beating anyone of note would have more affect than fans missing from their seats in the third quarter.

    #95174

    choppack1
    Participant

    Dumb to fire Chuck?? We didn’t have much of a choice. Once he got his own players in here and Rivers left his best conference record was 3-5 and 0-3 vs. UNC-ch teams that were actually pretty bad. If he had “it” he would have done better or at least ended up as hc somewhere else.

    Rick – I don’t think the stinker OOC games hurt us as much from a recruiting perspective and with the exception of this year – its not typically as bad as it was this year. Still, we had major games vs. UNC and Clemson where the 1st half environment was good.

    Look, the 2nd half attendance is a problem. We can act like it’s not a problem – but it certainly can’t help. It would be understandable if it was just for stinkers, but the same problem was there for the Clemson game as well and anyone watching the game on TV was treated to the announcers calling us out.

    #95175

    BJD95
    Keymaster

    The market position IS being a small fish (mediocre football option in the worst major conference) in an overfished pond for local talent. And like you said…this is more natural SEC country for the better kids who DO come out of the mediocre pipeline.

    In my view, the mistake was not actively going after SEC membership. Then at least we would have something to sell.

    #95177

    redwolf87
    Participant

    In my view, the mistake was not actively going after SEC membership. Then at least we would have something to sell.

    Yep. We’ll regret that one.

    #95178

    mak4dpak
    Participant

    If we think fanbase is an issue in the ACC, join the SEC and it will suck. Too far to travel for away games, not to mention the ACC fared better in football this year, with how many top rated teams? SEC is not happening, we just have to figure out how to improve our image in the ACC.

    #95179

    Texpack
    Participant

    I think DD will be able to build the program, but it won’t happen next year. The talent level looks better to the eye. Let’s see where we are after the next three years. I think we will be in a better spot than we are now, which is the historical norm for NC State football.

    #95180

    13OT
    Participant

    Regarding the post “join the SEC and it will suck….Too far to travel for away games…..”

    What could possibly suck worse than not being able to play your closest conference rival (Duke) who is 20 miles away but once every 8 or 9 years, yet have to travel darned near all the way to Canada every year to play either Syracuse or Boston College? That would be far worse than having to play Vanderbilt and Kentucky each season.

    I was originally opposed to a switch to the SEC, but now am on board with BJD. There will probably be a few more moves before all this stuff settles, and NCSU should do everything it can to get the hell out of this league. It’s a Blue League and always will be. Being an SEC member would significantly upgrade our football recruiting. Basketball wouldn’t be any worse off because in the ACC we are likely to be no better than a middle of the road team.

    If the fan sentiment is to keep Doeren at least 2 more seasons with no questions asked, we’re doomed to mediocrity and another coaching search in 3 to 4 years. I don’t dislike Doeren, but honestly, I have seen little from this staff in 3 seasons that makes me think we’re going to turn a corner anytime soon, if ever. When we first had Holtz, Rein and Sheridan, it didn’t take much to figure out that we had something special. I just don’t see it here now.

    The beat goes on……

    #95181

    mak4dpak
    Participant

    BC and Syracuse are on alternating schedules, home/away, whereas all the SEC doesn’t have anything near, except perhaps USC. But regardless of the sentiment, we all know there will never be any future plans for us leave the ACC, for the SEC. Just as the rumor that started about GT definitely bolting for the SEC, yet in the ACC they remain.

    #95182

    Wulfpack
    Participant

    Yea, the SEC ship has sailed. Yow was very vocal about her allegiance to the ACC.

    Doeren will have the necessary time to get it done. I like the guy but wish he’d upgrade the staff.

    #95183

    wolfpack92owen
    Participant

    Yea, the SEC ship has sailed. Yow was very vocal about her allegiance to the ACC.

    Doeren will have the necessary time to get it done. I like the guy but wish he’d upgrade the staff.

    Yow doesnt have a say in a potential move

    #95185

    TeufelWolf
    Participant

    SEC? Yes yes and yes. We should have!! I’m glad to hear someone other than me say it. THAT would changed everything – for the better. Oh well. If it’s too late then we need to play the cards we dealt ourselves. I think a tougher schedule will be good for the players, fans, and recruiting.

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