In the Eyes of a State Fan, Wainstein Offers Redemption for Media

As an NC State fan it is a universal belief that the sports coverage in the state of North Carolina and in particular the Triangle has always carried a heavy blue tint whenever the opportunity to do so presented itself. For over 5 years we have watched this UNC scandal unfold in front of our eyes with barely a passing blow from the Triangle Media. Sure it has been talked about but that is conversation usually tries to isolate the issue to one or two people and frequently followed by the “it is no big deal, everyone does it” or “we’re tired of talking about it” brush offs. My favorite time was WRAL’s expose on college athletes that focused squarely on TA McClendon rather than the ‘Wheels for Heels’ program or one of the other hundred prongs of the UNC cheating scandal that was going on at the time. Nope NC State was right in their crosshairs when the whole buffet of cheating was laid out in front of them. I guess their excuse lies somewhere between their journalism school degree and the man who signs their paychecks being a prominent UNC alum (google Capital Broadcasting).

Regardless, conversations and investigations regarding the worst cheating scandal the ACC has ever seen had to be lead by PackPride’s message boards members who are frequently labeled as lunatics or fanatics. While they might be fanatics, maybe they are just frustrated by the lack of effort (Dan Kane obviously excluded) the media has put into their “journalism” regarding the UNC situation that has been going on for years. If these so called lunatics can put the pieces together surely corporation with the resources the size of Capitol Broadcasting can do more than put together an expose on TA McClendon. Right?

I’m speaking for the entirety of the NC State fanbase, the Wainstein report is your chance at redemption and all it takes is for you to ask a few questions. The questions aren’t even that hard to come up with, The Wainstein report lays it all out there for you. Not in the 131 pages but in the additional documents included, specifically the emails between UNC “academic” support staff, coaches, and other faculty.

Let’s start with good ol’ Roy Williams.

Ever since Marvin Austin’s tweet started lifting the veil on the Death Star’s corruption Roy has stated that this is a football issue and not a basketball issue. He’s frequently said that his players are going to class and taking no improper benefits. Kudos to Roy for sticking to those guns as his players have been consistently exposed to be involved with runners, taking free cars and parking them wherever they want, and getting paid by some rogue dentists to name a few issues. Now as the biggest academic scandal in NCAA history is being exposed Roy is saying he had no idea what was going on despite the fact that he moved his kids out of particular AFAM programs and the media has not yet asked a single question regarding this move which seems so contradictory to not knowing about the AFAM paper classes.

When you are a college basketball coach, or any coach for that matter, you spend every moment of your lives with those kids. Even if you don’t want to know anything about what they are doing you undoubtedly know what cars they are driving, who they are hanging out with, what jewelry they are wearing, and 100% you know what classes they are taking and what grades they got in those classes. Roy is/was the most powerful man at the university and he doesn’t know about a scandal as widely spread as this one?

So here ya go media: Roy, with so much time spent with these kids that you claim to care so much about, how could you not know what classes they were taking and the types of classes they were?

Maybe it is an eye-for-an-eye mentality but so be it, in 1989, the media crucified Valvano. His crime? He should’ve known. The media went all in on Jimmy V and that is not me just being a State fan, here’s an article that Charlotte Observer writer Tom Sorenson wrote back in ’89.

Valvano was forced to resign as AD and then eventually forced out as head coach, and NC State self-imposed crippling penalties for essentially the same thing Todd Gurley will miss a few games over.

Here’s a look at Sorenson’s articles this year. Not one on UNC. Now I don’t mean to pick on Tom but he’s a perfect example the media taking any chance they can get at NC State but barely lifting a finger towards UNC. When asked about it on Twitter, he either ignores the question or responds with something like this: Tom Sorenson & PackPride

Other Not to be missed pieces that could make great questions

Here’s a great Pat Kennedy quote from here

“Gary Williams will tell you this, most of the coaches in the ACC felt that Carolina was a fraud in that they walked around like they were Stanford or Vanderbilt or Northwestern, but they weren’t, they were not even Duke. They took the most exceptions the last few years of Dean Smith’s career they took the most exceptions of any school in the ACC. Meaning kids that would not normally get accepted into the university, that were accepted to the university to play sports. I remember one year at Carolina they had 5 exceptions starting on their men’s basketball team. So they were taking guys with very low level qualifications and then they would keep them eligible. By putting them in these courses. So if a guy was close to not being eligible and his GPA was a 1.8 he would then take a couple of these courses and his GPA would be up to 2.4 and then everybody took a deep breath and they did it again”

“And the thing about the coaches not knowing about it in football it’s possible because the coaches at different positions would know about it, but it may not get to the head coach. But in basketball the head coach would know about it because he would have to approve dropping classes and getting into another class to stay eligible for graduation.”

“Coaches and athletic directors, you go to NCAA meetings and there is a lot of squabbling and coaches and ADs start pointing fingers. When I first got to the ACC I had a problem with a few coaches and a few of the other guys said “well do you really want to be the guy to turn Dean Smith in?” and you know as a young coach I said “I guess not” and as young coach you don’t want to turn in a Nick Saban.”

Ok so you maybe you don’t want to touch Roy because the CEO wouldn’t like that, how about you give a call to Marcia Shoop, the wife of former UNC Football Offensive Coordinate, John Shoop, who had some very interesting things to say in her most recent blog post.

But things are not as they seem. And the Wainstein report is not the vessel of truth and transparency that it boasts it is either.

I sat in the room with my husband, John Shoop (the Offensive Coordinator and Quarterbacks Coach at UNC from 2007-2011), when he was interviewed by Jay Joseph, one of the attorneys on the Wainstein team a few months ago. The testimony that is printed in the report attributed to John is only a fraction of what he actually said. And some very important things were redacted from his account. The Seemers, it seems, are up to something.

She goes on to say:

It is strange, too, that the Wainstein team only interviewed two coaches from the Davis staff.

If the truth was their goal, the Seemers definitely took a wrong turn in the choices they made here. But that’s what Seemers do, they seem to want the truth, but instead they have a plan…… And for affect, the News & Observer demonizes a football staff who was there at the tail end of these classes’ existence. That story line resonates with people and their caricatures about football players and coaches. And it helps keep the basketball team outside these harsh lines of scrutiny.

but it gets better:

The UNC faithful may hate the hear this, but when the NCAA investigation of the football program was in full tilt in 2010-2011, members of the football coaching staff were told (and they were told the directive came from Chancellor Thorp) that they were not to recruit “inner city black kids” any more. This was just one piece of the plan to “change the image of the football program.”

Say what? Chancellor Thorp telling coaches to not recruit “inner city black kids” any more doesn’t get a single question from the media?

Here’s another gem from an NPR interview with Mary Willingham, an athlete said to her:

“Please teach me to read well enough so I can read about myself online”

Don’t want you to miss UNC baseball coach Mike Fox getting caught in the middle of a lie here

Head Baseball Coach Mike Fox explained that he had no knowledge of the paper
classes or any other course that was designed to keep student-athletes eligible. Fox knew that
Chapel Hill offered independent studies, but he discouraged his players from taking them, preferring
that his players physically attend class. Fox stated, and his assistant coaches and former players
confirmed, that he places an emphasis on academics and would bench his athletes if he learned that
they were not attending class

O Rly?

So how about it Triangle Media, the questions are out there and I’ve even provided you with a few and you don’t even have to do that much digging, just go read this thread and come up with your own questions.

About JackWolf

I'm an unapologetic NC State fan but also consider myself a rational one. Hit me up on twitter if you want to talk @NCStateFootball

UNC Scandal

Home Forums In the Eyes of a State Fan, Wainstein Offers Redemption for Media

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 33 total)
  • Author
  • #60029

    As an NC State fan it is a universal belief that the sports coverage in the state of North Carolina and in particular the Triangle has always carried
    [See the full post at: In the Eyes of a State Fan, Wainstein Offers Redemption for Media]


    See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.


    The math over the last 20 years becomes interesting too… especially when you consider that this stuff has been going on much longer than Wainstein showed, and in multiple academic disciplines. If you turn the tables on State’s losses to UNC-CHeat over the last 20 years, State gains ACC basketball and baseball titles, and almost evens the series for football and basketball. This doesn’t begin to touch the recruiting advantages that UNC-CHeat held over State for that time period. Where would State be today if UNC-CHeat hadn’t cheated their way to the top of NC athletics? Sports-wise and academically speaking? Everyone knows that athletics leads to increased alumni giving for academics, increased exposure, better/more students applying. /mini-rant


    Valvano should have known. He said he did not. He paid with his job.
    Roy also should have known. He says he did not. He should also pay with his job.

    As for Sorenson, I doubt you’ll hear anything out of him about this. He’s the Observer’s Panthers/Hornets beat writer now and leaves college perspective to the guys in Raleigh. And that’s why you haven’t seen squat from him about this all year. It’s no longer his job.


    ^Not to mention the losses in revenues…


    I think it’s high time for a class action lawsuit by the other schools in the state (private type ones since NCSU could not do this).

    Smarter than the average bear


    No argument with your thoughts. However, the CEO of Capitol Broadcasting is not a UNC alum. He attended Duke but left to join the Navy and never completed his degree.


    Excellent story, thanks. Some of the links did not work for me.


    Yeah, would have loved to read that whole Pat Kennedy story. But I guess that’s something behind a paywall – and I don’t love it that much!

    Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. Mao Zedong


    Valvano should have known. He said he did not. He paid with his job.
    Roy also should have known. He says he did not. He should also pay with his job.

    These two things are completely different. The shoes/tickets were given to the players by the NCSU athletic dept. If the athletic dept didn’t keep track of what happened after that, who would? UNC’s issue is institutionalized academic fraud. Why should the athletic dept be responsible for insuring that the grades/courses are legitimate? Why shouldn’t the academic administration be responsible for that?

    Did Roy know? Of course he did. Why else would he have moved his players out of the sham classes? But believing that he knew and proving it are two completely different things. To fire Roy, you have to prove that he knew and thus covered up NCAA violations.


    ^Doesn’t the academic support staff for MBB report to Roy? That is why Roy is responsible or at least accountable. Academic administrators should also be paying with their jobs for this one, but the athletic programs who funneled kids to the sham classes are just as guilty.

    Years ago, when the should have known argument was crafted against V, the authors never thought it would be turned around and multiplied 1,000 times. I would also contend that LOIC is really based on the “should have known” argument. Unless the BOT, Chancellor, and AD intended for classes to be run like this to keep athletes eligible, this is LOIC beyond any doubt. Roy, Fox, and all of the other coaches deserve to be fired.


    I would also contend that LOIC is really based on the “should have known” argument.

    I disagree with this too. Whether or not the athletic dept “knew”, fraudulent grades were given out by the university. If academic fraud isn’t “out of control”, then I don’t know what is.

    To me, this a 1000x worse than Wiley doing papers for the football team.


    You know all along people on this site kept saying oh nothing will be found when it was confined to the football program. Then it spread a little. Some more informtion came out and everyone still had this ho hum mentality. The prevailing sentiment was one that nothing will ever bring down the sacred cow. Still people believe that UNC is too big to fail. I have myself beleived these thoughts at times but every time I think they are done we get more damagaing information come out. VA82 is right to some extent that unless there is a smoking e-mail then maybe nothing will move Roy out the door. The thought I have is if enough people complain at both the local and national level then he will be forced to leave. Can they fire all the coaches? Roy, Silvia, and Fox all told to leave? That is a bit far fetcehd but one or some of those will be the fall guys(gals). If it is left to UNC we all know who he gets a reprieve. There were a lot of unanswered questions after the Weinstien report. Those questions are not going away. They didn’t stop trying to get answers in the early days of this fraud and I thinnk the ones that care have a whole new set of questions that need answering.


    All I want for Christmas is for UNC to receive the double whammy — the Death Penalty in sports paired with a significant knock on their academic standing.

    If a school has ever earned the Death Penalty in sports — not just for lack of institutional control on the off campus stuff, but for complete and reprehensible policy in the classroom — it is UNC. It’s the complete package. Taking illegal gifts, funneling money, covering up illegal actions is possibly forgivable if the academic mission is in order. But to have it all as it is and to find people at all levels of the university over multiple iterations of people in every position, yet still continue is systemic. They should be finished, at least for 5 years.

    Beyond this, what I’m waiting for is this hit on the academic side. Everyone knows that the NCAA is a complete joke and the universities are just in it for the cash. They’re all willing to collectively look the other way on that. But what about systemic academic fraud dating back 20 years (and beyond, but there’s just not enough of a paper trail)? It will be interesting to see if UNC keeps their accreditation.

    How will UNC stay in the AAU (which we still can’t seemingly get into) given the following requirements:
    – as well as general recognition that a university is outstanding by reason of the excellence of its research and education programs.

    – current members whose research and education profile falls significantly below that of other current members or below the criteria for admission of new members will be subject to further review and possible discontinuation of membership.

    – Undergraduate education: The Committee assesses the institution’s undergraduate programs to determine that the institution is meeting its commitment to undergraduate education.

    That’s just what is posted on the AAU website. Imagine how this looks behind closed doors when the administration of the university, time and again, across multiple decades, has committed this sort of fraud. Academia is a snooty thing. Do the other schools still want UNC in the club?

    I think the AAU has to do something. The academics will need to rise up and take some power back, and this is a way for that to happen — and to send a strong message to other schools about the relative importance of sports.


    ^^Yeah, I don’t think public pressure alone would ever get UNX to do away with Fox or Hatchell, and especially not Roy.

    That said, if the NCAA (lol) does come with some punishment for the individual programs (believe it when I see it) then it may not matter. Even if the respective coaches aren’t given show-causes, if their programs are facing multi-year bans it would most likely signal the end of each of their respective eras due to age, contracts, etc.

    Also, like ryebread 5 years was my original guess as well for potential bans / punishments – across multiple programs if not the entire department (which really, it should be).

    I’m also interested in potential Pell Grant fraud that the e-mails seem to imply … it doesn’t look good for them. That is, of course, if they’re held to task.


    The comments from Kennedy really hit home. Taking the most exceptions of anybody in the ACC and keeping them all eligible. This is where the common sense factor and having some knowledge of probability kick in. This was like Enron in a lot of ways. We were supposed to believe that they could operate so far outside the norms of statistics because they were just so much smarter than everybody else. Deep down in your gut, you knew something wasn’t quite as it was being presented, but you didn’t have any proof and the cultural norm within the organization was so strong, that nobody who suspected would dare breathe a word of it.


    The problem is the proof has always been there. Improper benefits, cars, money, and of course grades on imaginary classes, just no one was willing to pursue it. The death sentence on ALL NCAA sanctioned sports is in order. EVERYONE of them. AND GIVE BACK THE MONEY! Every penny.

    Smarter than the average bear


    3000 plus bogus diplomas produced by fraud involving academic and athletic staff/faculty paid for with tax dollars at a public university. At any other UNC System school we would see wholesale firings of both coaches, staff, and faculty with people being escorted off campus in handcuffs.

    Someone should file a class action law suit against UNC on behalf of NC Tax payers asking for 20 years of money back.


    No one actually buys into the argument that these poor students are being deprived a top 30 college education. You can’t teach a 90 IQ kid college material. they would simply fail out.

    The cheating is primarily bad as it enriches cheating schools at the expense of the others.


    I think your title ‘In the Eyes of a State Fan’ says a lot. We ‘all’ know what should happen and hope their is justice somewhere, someday. But, after years of not seeing this and expecting little to come of it, don’t be surprised if the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Emmert is already saying things like ‘if the report is true’ and the NCAA will do their own investigation. All the ‘extra’ stuff in emails and such will more than likely not get a second look. I do believe they will be forced to react, but not in a way that a State Fan would expect. Outside forces may call their hand, but that has happened before and little came of it. Since it now has national attention the academic side of things may get hit, but I’m not expecting the athletic side of things to get more than stern talking to. After all, Roy didn’t know….but in the ‘eyes of a State fan, we know.


    I think justice is more likely now than it has been since this whole thing started.

    “Just based on the (Kenneth) Wainstein report, this is a case that potentially strikes at the heart of what higher education is about,” Emmert said Monday. “Universities are supposed to take absolutely most seriously the education of their students, right? I mean that’s why they exist, that’s their function in life. If the Wainstein report is accurate, then there was severe, severe compromising of all those issues, so it’s deeply troubling. … It’s absolutely disturbing that we find ourselves here right now.”

    Read more here:


    What is absolutely disturbing to Emmert is that he has already cut a backroom deal with Swofford to go easy on UNC and now all this comes out.


    What is absolutely disturbing to Emmert is that he has already cut a backroom deal with Swofford to go easy on UNC and now all this comes out.

    Do we have a source for this, or is it NC State conspiracy theory nuttery?


    pakfanistan: I fear that Emmert is setting up to wash his hands of this as much as he can. After all it’s not a NCAA issue, but an academic fraud issue that should be dealt with by the accreditation process.


    You can give up fair play or reporting from the Charlotte Observer, the Emmert story has quickly made its way to the depths of their web page, while all of a sudden a woman claiming sexual assault in Raleigh is one of the top stories they running now. Of course a woman claiming sexual assault in Raleigh isn’t news here unless it involves a celebrity, a politician, or happens to involve NC State in anyway. The woman is claiming sexual assault at an NCSU frat.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 33 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.