In the Eyes of a State Fan, Wainstein Offers Redemption for Media

Home Forums All StateFansNation In the Eyes of a State Fan, Wainstein Offers Redemption for Media

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 33 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #60029
    JackWolf
    Keymaster

    As an NC State fan it is a universal belief that the sports coverage in the state of North Carolina and in particular the Triangle has always carried
    [See the full post at: In the Eyes of a State Fan, Wainstein Offers Redemption for Media]

    #60031
    packof81
    Participant

    See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.

    #60033
    deenz
    Participant

    The math over the last 20 years becomes interesting too… especially when you consider that this stuff has been going on much longer than Wainstein showed, and in multiple academic disciplines. If you turn the tables on State’s losses to UNC-CHeat over the last 20 years, State gains ACC basketball and baseball titles, and almost evens the series for football and basketball. This doesn’t begin to touch the recruiting advantages that UNC-CHeat held over State for that time period. Where would State be today if UNC-CHeat hadn’t cheated their way to the top of NC athletics? Sports-wise and academically speaking? Everyone knows that athletics leads to increased alumni giving for academics, increased exposure, better/more students applying. /mini-rant

    #60034
    MattN
    Participant

    Valvano should have known. He said he did not. He paid with his job.
    Roy also should have known. He says he did not. He should also pay with his job.

    As for Sorenson, I doubt you’ll hear anything out of him about this. He’s the Observer’s Panthers/Hornets beat writer now and leaves college perspective to the guys in Raleigh. And that’s why you haven’t seen squat from him about this all year. It’s no longer his job.

    #60035
    ncsu1987
    Participant

    ^Not to mention the losses in revenues…

    #60037
    YogiNC
    Participant

    I think it’s high time for a class action lawsuit by the other schools in the state (private type ones since NCSU could not do this).

    Smarter than the average bear

    #60039
    nctalkinghead
    Participant

    No argument with your thoughts. However, the CEO of Capitol Broadcasting is not a UNC alum. He attended Duke but left to join the Navy and never completed his degree.

    #60040
    wolfwarrior
    Participant

    Excellent story, thanks. Some of the links did not work for me.

    #60041
    44rules
    Participant

    Yeah, would have loved to read that whole Pat Kennedy story. But I guess that’s something behind a paywall – and I don’t love it that much!

    Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. Mao Zedong

    #60042
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    Valvano should have known. He said he did not. He paid with his job.
    Roy also should have known. He says he did not. He should also pay with his job.

    These two things are completely different. The shoes/tickets were given to the players by the NCSU athletic dept. If the athletic dept didn’t keep track of what happened after that, who would? UNC’s issue is institutionalized academic fraud. Why should the athletic dept be responsible for insuring that the grades/courses are legitimate? Why shouldn’t the academic administration be responsible for that?

    Did Roy know? Of course he did. Why else would he have moved his players out of the sham classes? But believing that he knew and proving it are two completely different things. To fire Roy, you have to prove that he knew and thus covered up NCAA violations.

    #60043
    Texpack
    Participant

    ^Doesn’t the academic support staff for MBB report to Roy? That is why Roy is responsible or at least accountable. Academic administrators should also be paying with their jobs for this one, but the athletic programs who funneled kids to the sham classes are just as guilty.

    Years ago, when the should have known argument was crafted against V, the authors never thought it would be turned around and multiplied 1,000 times. I would also contend that LOIC is really based on the “should have known” argument. Unless the BOT, Chancellor, and AD intended for classes to be run like this to keep athletes eligible, this is LOIC beyond any doubt. Roy, Fox, and all of the other coaches deserve to be fired.

    #60044
    VaWolf82
    Keymaster

    I would also contend that LOIC is really based on the “should have known” argument.

    I disagree with this too. Whether or not the athletic dept “knew”, fraudulent grades were given out by the university. If academic fraud isn’t “out of control”, then I don’t know what is.

    To me, this a 1000x worse than Wiley doing papers for the football team.

    #60045
    Gowolves
    Participant

    You know all along people on this site kept saying oh nothing will be found when it was confined to the football program. Then it spread a little. Some more informtion came out and everyone still had this ho hum mentality. The prevailing sentiment was one that nothing will ever bring down the sacred cow. Still people believe that UNC is too big to fail. I have myself beleived these thoughts at times but every time I think they are done we get more damagaing information come out. VA82 is right to some extent that unless there is a smoking e-mail then maybe nothing will move Roy out the door. The thought I have is if enough people complain at both the local and national level then he will be forced to leave. Can they fire all the coaches? Roy, Silvia, and Fox all told to leave? That is a bit far fetcehd but one or some of those will be the fall guys(gals). If it is left to UNC we all know who he gets a reprieve. There were a lot of unanswered questions after the Weinstien report. Those questions are not going away. They didn’t stop trying to get answers in the early days of this fraud and I thinnk the ones that care have a whole new set of questions that need answering.

    #60047
    ryebread
    Participant

    All I want for Christmas is for UNC to receive the double whammy — the Death Penalty in sports paired with a significant knock on their academic standing.

    If a school has ever earned the Death Penalty in sports — not just for lack of institutional control on the off campus stuff, but for complete and reprehensible policy in the classroom — it is UNC. It’s the complete package. Taking illegal gifts, funneling money, covering up illegal actions is possibly forgivable if the academic mission is in order. But to have it all as it is and to find people at all levels of the university over multiple iterations of people in every position, yet still continue is systemic. They should be finished, at least for 5 years.

    Beyond this, what I’m waiting for is this hit on the academic side. Everyone knows that the NCAA is a complete joke and the universities are just in it for the cash. They’re all willing to collectively look the other way on that. But what about systemic academic fraud dating back 20 years (and beyond, but there’s just not enough of a paper trail)? It will be interesting to see if UNC keeps their accreditation.

    How will UNC stay in the AAU (which we still can’t seemingly get into) given the following requirements:
    – as well as general recognition that a university is outstanding by reason of the excellence of its research and education programs.

    – current members whose research and education profile falls significantly below that of other current members or below the criteria for admission of new members will be subject to further review and possible discontinuation of membership.

    – Undergraduate education: The Committee assesses the institution’s undergraduate programs to determine that the institution is meeting its commitment to undergraduate education.

    That’s just what is posted on the AAU website. Imagine how this looks behind closed doors when the administration of the university, time and again, across multiple decades, has committed this sort of fraud. Academia is a snooty thing. Do the other schools still want UNC in the club?

    I think the AAU has to do something. The academics will need to rise up and take some power back, and this is a way for that to happen — and to send a strong message to other schools about the relative importance of sports.

    #60048
    wufpup76
    Keymaster

    ^^Yeah, I don’t think public pressure alone would ever get UNX to do away with Fox or Hatchell, and especially not Roy.

    That said, if the NCAA (lol) does come with some punishment for the individual programs (believe it when I see it) then it may not matter. Even if the respective coaches aren’t given show-causes, if their programs are facing multi-year bans it would most likely signal the end of each of their respective eras due to age, contracts, etc.

    Also, like ryebread 5 years was my original guess as well for potential bans / punishments – across multiple programs if not the entire department (which really, it should be).

    I’m also interested in potential Pell Grant fraud that the e-mails seem to imply … it doesn’t look good for them. That is, of course, if they’re held to task.

    #60049
    Texpack
    Participant

    The comments from Kennedy really hit home. Taking the most exceptions of anybody in the ACC and keeping them all eligible. This is where the common sense factor and having some knowledge of probability kick in. This was like Enron in a lot of ways. We were supposed to believe that they could operate so far outside the norms of statistics because they were just so much smarter than everybody else. Deep down in your gut, you knew something wasn’t quite as it was being presented, but you didn’t have any proof and the cultural norm within the organization was so strong, that nobody who suspected would dare breathe a word of it.

    #60052
    YogiNC
    Participant

    The problem is the proof has always been there. Improper benefits, cars, money, and of course grades on imaginary classes, just no one was willing to pursue it. The death sentence on ALL NCAA sanctioned sports is in order. EVERYONE of them. AND GIVE BACK THE MONEY! Every penny.

    Smarter than the average bear

    #60053
    Hungwolf
    Participant

    3000 plus bogus diplomas produced by fraud involving academic and athletic staff/faculty paid for with tax dollars at a public university. At any other UNC System school we would see wholesale firings of both coaches, staff, and faculty with people being escorted off campus in handcuffs.

    Someone should file a class action law suit against UNC on behalf of NC Tax payers asking for 20 years of money back.

    #60056
    packalum44
    Participant

    No one actually buys into the argument that these poor students are being deprived a top 30 college education. You can’t teach a 90 IQ kid college material. they would simply fail out.

    The cheating is primarily bad as it enriches cheating schools at the expense of the others.

    #60065
    SeaWolf72
    Participant

    I think your title ‘In the Eyes of a State Fan’ says a lot. We ‘all’ know what should happen and hope their is justice somewhere, someday. But, after years of not seeing this and expecting little to come of it, don’t be surprised if the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Emmert is already saying things like ‘if the report is true’ and the NCAA will do their own investigation. All the ‘extra’ stuff in emails and such will more than likely not get a second look. I do believe they will be forced to react, but not in a way that a State Fan would expect. Outside forces may call their hand, but that has happened before and little came of it. Since it now has national attention the academic side of things may get hit, but I’m not expecting the athletic side of things to get more than stern talking to. After all, Roy didn’t know….but in the ‘eyes of a State fan, we know.

    #60067
    pakfanistan
    Participant

    I think justice is more likely now than it has been since this whole thing started.

    “Just based on the (Kenneth) Wainstein report, this is a case that potentially strikes at the heart of what higher education is about,” Emmert said Monday. “Universities are supposed to take absolutely most seriously the education of their students, right? I mean that’s why they exist, that’s their function in life. If the Wainstein report is accurate, then there was severe, severe compromising of all those issues, so it’s deeply troubling. … It’s absolutely disturbing that we find ourselves here right now.”

    Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/27/4269526_ncaas-emmert-calls-n-carolina.html?sp=/99/103/119/271/&rh=1#storylink=cpy

    #60068
    packof81
    Participant

    What is absolutely disturbing to Emmert is that he has already cut a backroom deal with Swofford to go easy on UNC and now all this comes out.

    #60069
    pakfanistan
    Participant

    What is absolutely disturbing to Emmert is that he has already cut a backroom deal with Swofford to go easy on UNC and now all this comes out.

    Do we have a source for this, or is it NC State conspiracy theory nuttery?

    #60070
    ryebread
    Participant

    pakfanistan: I fear that Emmert is setting up to wash his hands of this as much as he can. After all it’s not a NCAA issue, but an academic fraud issue that should be dealt with by the accreditation process.

    #60073
    Hungwolf
    Participant

    You can give up fair play or reporting from the Charlotte Observer, the Emmert story has quickly made its way to the depths of their web page, while all of a sudden a woman claiming sexual assault in Raleigh is one of the top stories they running now. Of course a woman claiming sexual assault in Raleigh isn’t news here unless it involves a celebrity, a politician, or happens to involve NC State in anyway. The woman is claiming sexual assault at an NCSU frat.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 33 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.