For NC State Football, There’s No Place To Go But Up

With all due respect to Duke and its rising football fortunes, NC State’s football program probably hit rock bottom yesterday in Durham.

After having taken the lead in a close game midway through the fourth quarter, the Wolfpack proceeded to implode with a ferocity rarely seen in major division college football: the defense gave the lead right back after a relentless Duke drive, and down four with around three and a half minutes to go, the offense proceeded to throw two pick-six interceptions on consecutive plays.  That said, in the course of three short minutes, State went from leading a tight game by three with the clock starting to melt to having no chance at all of victory.

The usual suspects were the cause of this dumpster fire: poor tackling on defense, poor decision making at quarterback, poor blocking from the offensive line when State needed it most, and most importantly, a complete loss of poise from the skilled position players on the field.  One of the Duke interceptions was made when quarterback Brandon Mitchell was on his way to the ground for a short sack, but instead of taking the loss of yardage and regrouping, Mitchell instead decided inexplicably to throw pass that was then batted into the air like a volleyball by Devon Edwards, who then caught the ball himself and strutted into the end zone to put the game away.  Then, on the next series, Mitchell was replaced by Pete Thomas, who threw another pick six on the first play of the series by putting the ball into Edwards’ hands once again, resulting in another touchdown the wrong way.

Some may say that was the result of a having a quarterback onto the field who is not suited for ACC play, while other fans screamed in the direction of the coaches.  Both are legitimate points, but perhaps the simplest answer is this: NC State is a team with no depth and little high caliber talent available in the 2013 season.  Perhaps the only player who would have a chance to start on Florida State or Clemson, the league leaders, would be kicker Nicklas Sade, and perhaps of all of the players who were available for Duke, none would crack Clemson or Florida State’s second string — save for running back Shardrach Thornton and wide receiver Rashard Smith.

That leaves head coach Dave Doeren with a nearly impossible task — putting a winning team onto the field.  One could question why, given the personnel problems, Doeren and offensive coordinator Matt Canada have  chosen to change the offensive style and not to retain the incumbent Pro-Set style of offense that were the hallmarks of the Tom O’Brien and Dana Bible era, but the answer is that wouldn’t work well either — not with a banged-up patchwork offensive line that has trouble opening holes in the opposition defense and keeping the pass rush away from the quarterback.  Coupled with QB’s who can’t pass well, that would result in an offense as poor as the one that went nuclear upon itself in the last few minutes inside Wallace Wade Stadium yesterday.

Then there is the quarterback position itself: gone is NFL starter Mike Glennon, a player who has acquitted himself well in his first year playing on Sundays.  In his stead are a converted wide receiver who the game has never slowed down for, and he is backed up by a relatively immobile but somewhat weak-armed player who the game has also never slowed down for.  Both quarterbacks have made horrible decisions throwing the ball at key points of tight games, and both seem to lock down on one receiver or one side of the field and not perform their check-downs to find the open guy who they could get positive yards from.  While the running backs and receivers have played well enough, they can’t overcome those weaknesses, especially in the red zone and the recipe for a weak offense is thus mixed thoroughly and put in the oven.  That’s left NC State eating its own humble pie more often than not this season, and it is something that has left a horrible taste in the mouths of its rabid fans.

What State needs are athletes at every position, players who have size, strength and speed, plus a desire to compete through the final whistle.  Doeren and staff are busily recruiting players with those skills at the prep level, but this year he has nothing much to work with…and it shows.  Doeren has put together a pretty solid group for next year, but integrating them into the team and molding an effective unit will take time.

Taken in summary, that leaves a team with no place to go but upwards…it can’t get much worse than it is right now.

And it leaves a simple question: when will that happen?  The answer, right now, to that is equally simple: your guess is as good as mine.  The only thing we know with any certainty is that it won’t be this year.

'13 Football Dave Doeren NCS Football

67 Responses to For NC State Football, There’s No Place To Go But Up

  1. bill.onthebeach 11/10/2013 at 3:33 PM #

    All things considered…

    I would rather have a team like the team that played yesterday than to watch another game like last year’s Virginia game.

    Our ‘young coaches’ may be guilty of just one thing….’over-coaching’…. that is …. trying to get this team to run a system (plays) that they simply don’t have the skills (yet) to run successfully.

    As ‘foose suggested… Coach showed the team he has a lot of confidence in them on those 4th down plays. Otherwise, Coach sends a clear “we can’t ” message, which ain’t going to get anybody where they want to be.

    It appears that “next year is now” and if that means losing some games that otherwise might have been won by taking a shortcut…. so be it.

    That attitude, properly communicated, resolves any difficulty resulting from a poor W-L record in recruiting.

    To put that another way, if Coach Cut over at Dook can get his share of NC’s best high schoolers…. then Coach DD can too.

    Yes it could be worse…. we could have a bunch of upperclass “stars” who don’t buy into the new coach’s program and spend their free time stirring up sh&t in the locker room.

    At this point …. 0 for the rest season is off the table. On the other hand, when we win just one game — doing things Coach’s way — this will have been a successful first season.

    Next year is now, and has been all season.

  2. packalum44 11/10/2013 at 3:49 PM #

    We are not as bad as our record indicates. We have the worst QB situation in the ACC. In a game of inches, when talent levels are only marginally different (Wake/Syracuse/UNC/Duke) the QB situation is more important than normal. We’re bad, but the sky isn’t falling we just have awful QBs and no talent advantage. We were competitive in all but 2 games.

    1) Next year we will have a good QB. One that approximately half of UF fanbase thought was better than the one they kept (he’s injured this year hence their bad season). Similar to our Wilson/Glennon discourse.

    2) In 2 – 4 years, if DD continues his recruiting efforts and brings in 20-30 ranked teams EACH year, which is achievable in a state with the 3rd highest black population in the southeast, we will have a noticeable talent advantage over the Wakes/Dukes/Boston Colleges/Syracuse’s and will be able to win games even during years without NFL QBs.

    I worry this crappy season creates a headwind in recruiting efforts. Hopefully we win another game or two – we’re close enough that lady luck has to fall on our side in one of the next 3 games, all of which are winnable.

  3. Alpha Wolf 11/10/2013 at 3:52 PM #

    Amato had a good offensive line that Marty Galbraith put together, a freshman named Philip Rivers and a highly talented receiver in Koren Robinson.

  4. Wulfpack 11/10/2013 at 4:11 PM #

    I don’t understand the 4th and 1 call. The risk is far greater than the reward. I hope these don’t become a habit.

  5. tjfoose1 11/10/2013 at 4:28 PM #

    “We should be better than 0-6 in the ACC.”

    I guess that depends on your definition of “should”. With an inspection of the roster and each game’s injury report, I’d make us dogs in each game.

    With the full 2013 game 1 roster healthy, I think we beat Wake and Syracuse, probably u*nc and Duke. Possibly Clemson, minus the bonehead officiating.

    But injuries are part of the game. At it’s healthy best, State was a middling ACC team. As currently constituted, we are the worst. It’s not even close.

  6. tjfoose1 11/10/2013 at 4:37 PM #

    “We will not have a good 2014 without a
    great QB. Unless we get a great recruit we are
    looking at another bad year.”

    “Unless”? If you’re not informed, I’d suggest not advertising it. We already have a great recruit on the roster.

    Brissett is an ESPN Top 100 recruit, class of 2011, rated the #3 dual threat QB in his class.

    But then, being informed is obviously not a requirement to post anything here.

    There’s a reason Doeren almost immediatedly started scouring the nation for QB’s once he got a look at what TOB had left him. It wasn’t out of confidence for what he saw.

  7. Clarksa 11/10/2013 at 4:50 PM #

    I too believe ECU will be rock bottom…we’ll complete the Our State campaign by losing to all 4 in state DivI football programs…and with that, I hope the Our State campaign will die.

  8. Wulfpack 11/10/2013 at 5:00 PM #

    If you only get one more win on the season, who do you want? ECU? Or Maryland as they exit the ACC?

  9. tjfoose1 11/10/2013 at 5:07 PM #
  10. tjfoose1 11/10/2013 at 5:07 PM #

    “As ‘foose suggested… Coach showed the team he has a lot of confidence in them on those 4th down
    plays.”

    Not exactly. I think we currently share the same general opinion on DD, but that’s not what I intended to imply.

    I think the 4th down call came from the antithesis of confidence in his players (offense/QB). It came from desperation.

  11. john of sparta 11/10/2013 at 5:08 PM #

    Wulf….
    Terps. we’ll play the Pirates again.
    we might not play the Terps again
    in my lifetime. (or ever)

  12. Wulfpack 11/10/2013 at 5:19 PM #

    Good point, sparta. I agree. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out kind of message. Although ECU fans are unbearable.

  13. highstick 11/10/2013 at 5:34 PM #

    Alpha…I hope you are never at the controls of an aircraft cause I’m not certain you can distinguish between “up and down”…Reminds me of the Air Force pilot test looking at those videos trying to figure out if I was inverted or not…

    I remember watching another team “in the dumper” a little over a decade ago…1 win and 21 straight losses. I’m still waiting for the change in mindset in Raleigh to turn things around…been waiting a long darned time…too danged long!

  14. john of sparta 11/10/2013 at 5:50 PM #

    Wulf…since you brought it up:
    which fans are more unbearable?
    1. Pyrats ?
    2. TarHoles?
    and, i understand, it’s kinda/sorta
    where you stay and where they stay.

  15. Adventuroo 11/10/2013 at 6:04 PM #

    I am obviously technologically disadvantaged or else I need higher credentials….I tried to post a picture using every known “trick” or procedure…..

    SO, we will do this radio style….

    Now, picture a smiling Mike Glennon, clad in his Buc’s Uni holding up his left hand in a “Wuffie” Salute and an NCSU FB in his right hand….he is poised to launch a perfect spiral …..and the caption is….

    “Miss me, YET?”. The infamous Bush picture with that caption pops into my inbox at least twice a week….and it seems fitting now.

    Today, Russell dispatched Mr. Ryan’s Falcons….
    Phillip is struggling against God (Manning) and the Bronco’s….but it ain’t over, yet.
    Glennon will suit up tomorrow night.

    Remember how GREAT we were with Russell his Jr (or 3rd year) and then remember how REALLY great (superlatives fail me) he was in Cheese Land when they had a REAL OL and a REAL Defense….
    How many ACC Championship banners are flying at CF due to Phillip?

    I went back to my trusty Agromeck and did a little reading…..seems as if we TROUNCED the FSU gang in 1965 (well it as still a W and the single field goal score was enough) for Homecoming. I helped build a float with a Wolf (mechanical leg on a cam) STOMPING the Chief….he had a “HELP” sign and we played the Beatles HELP on a continuous Audio Tape Loop and the amps were turned up and powered off my car battery. I drove it in the Home Coming parade. We also beat UNC 21-0 that year…

    Oh well, that was only 48 years ago…..and me and the DBW celebrate the same number in 11 days….

    High Stick nailed it. Duke was the water boy for the ACC….but they finally pulled it out.

    We need some Hosses….and we need at least a set of THREE for each position. When we lose a starter, we almost have to bring in a Walk-On. When AL and FSU and CU and (fill in the blank) lose a starter, they have a # 2 DC guy that is in the TOP 25 for his position…

    I feel better today…..put on a white shirt and my old WIDE Wuffie tied (the one where you can read the logo on the Wolf’s hat at 50 yards) and a BLACK blazer and went to church. Our Duke loving Minister smiled at me and sort of winked at my attire, but did not comment.

    Life will go on….Battles will be held and hopefully we will win at least one more…maybe more.

  16. Big Dog 11/10/2013 at 6:26 PM #

    Recruit SPEED. Spreading the field in today’s game requires guys that can fly sideline to sideline all game long.

    Reading about Baylor in the most recent Sports Illustrated, their whole offense is designed to put pressure on the defense with speed and schemes. Again, SPEED is the key and they average 9.1 yards per play, making the defense adjust to them. Briles is a very bright coach.

    The future for us is to recruit these athletes. Our division is loaded with talent and we are so far behind it’s going to take years to get there. So, DD is not going anywhere for a few years and we all need to understand this. I don’t really care about the 4th and whatever calls; crappy calls during a crappy year. This team needs fans and support in the worst way. I will be in my seat on the 23rd and the 30th until the last tick. I will also kick in a bit more this year for the Wolfpack Club as well because we have some great student athletes at State in all sports.

    I hate losing and am as frustrated as anyone, but if we don’t pick up load, who will? Don’t walk out on these guys, you will not be sorry.

  17. Wulfpack 11/10/2013 at 7:10 PM #

    Carolina Panthers are for real with the gritty win at San Fran. Beat Brady’s boys in Charlotte next Monday night and quickly among the league’s elite. Stellar defense.

  18. phillypacker 11/10/2013 at 7:27 PM #

    Those fourth and 1 calls were not primarily about this game. They are about building a culture of winning. We will have trouble keeping DD in four years because everyone will want him. He works harder as a coach than any coach we have had since Sheridan or Holtz. He knows how to win. He has a great staff. He has freshmen and weak talent. He lost 10 points on a great kicker who hit an upright and a senior WR, Quinton Payton that has a gently thrown ball bounce off his finger tips. Coaches aren’t allowed to play. But despite the terrible performances, he chases players down building them up. TOB had a LOADED squad last year and did nothing with it. DD is getting everything he can out of the leftovers from lazy ass recruiting from TOB and his crew. Again, DD will be one of the great coaches in NC State history.

  19. bill.onthebeach 11/10/2013 at 7:45 PM #

    ^John…

    Gators are in a league all their own when it comes to being obnoxious — to use a most polite term.

    Twerps are unbearable year in and year out regardless of sport or record.

    Pyerats are only unbearable when they are winning.

    Tarholes are tarholes but some of us choose to live with them so there are mitigating circumstances.

    That said, I guess it all depends on which one is standing in front of you.

  20. mak4dpak 11/10/2013 at 8:01 PM #

    Last week 4th and a mile, yesterday, less than a yard, give the ball to Mitchell, and we get it, right decision to go for it, wrong player to attempt it. As for Amato and his greatness at State, thank Philip Rivers, down hill when he left. Our team has lots of potential, but the two leaders we have in Mitchell and Thomas have screwed that potential, But if we win out we would be 6-6 and bowl eligible. We certainly can beat BC and Maryland, will take an inspired effort to pull it off over ECU, but not impossible. Just wanna know what we can do, with a game played with no turnovers. Every week 3+ happen, and mostly from the QB position. Gotta change.

  21. 13OT 11/10/2013 at 8:21 PM #

    Not only can things get worse, they WILL get worse. When your kicker is considered by many to be your best player, and his name isn’t Ray Guy, that’s not good.

    We are at least 2 if not 3 seasons away from having a decent QB. When was the last time we had a decent O-line? We have no running game except when Mitchell panics and CAN’T throw the ball. Our defense has been about as effective as a screen door on a submarine. And we have a new coaching staff that seems to be shooting itself in the foot.

    I read all this talk about how great our recruiting is going, but honestly, WHO are these great players and when are they coming here? The top players in this state, just about every one of ’em, have gone to or committed to SEC or other teams outside of this state, and we aren’t even beating all the other Big Four teams for the other players who aren’t nearly as good. We’ve become, clearly, the worst team in the Big Four.

    If this current staff doesn’t work out, our football program will be in such a mess that only a big-name, experienced coach like a Mike Leach could lift us out of the abyss that we seem to be descending into. We simply won’t be in a position to re-invent the wheel, like we tried to do in basketball when someone in the Wolfpack hierarchy believed they could make an effective coach out of Sidney Lowe.

    Wolfpack revenue athletics are in deep trouble. A school that is as big as we are, one that puts as much money into athletics as we do, and one that has the kind of fan support that we have has absolutely NO business floundering at the bottom of a mediocre 13-member football conference. We’re dangerously close to returning to that same position in basketball, where we spent the past two decades until a couple of seasons ago.

    In all my years as a Wolfpack fan, and I’ve been one since the 1950s, I never remember a time when the only thing we had going for us athletically was a baseball pitcher.

    I applaud Coach Gott for trying to upgrade our basketball schedule. However, the football schedule is terrible because the two divisions aren’t working and will be even more dysfunctional next season if Louisville does replace Maryland in the Atlantic Division.

    If ACC officials put Louisville in the Atlantic Division next season, teams like State and Wake are going to be pushed deeper into their division cellar. The league already has a significant imbalance both in power and in geography. I want to see us playing Duke EVERY season, and I want to see UVA and GT back here more often, as well as seeing VT here too.

    It simply makes no sense for Duke to remain off our schedule until 2020, while we are forced, EVERY SEASON, to play Syracuse, Boston College and now Louisville. We need local rivals, not trips to Boston, Canada and northern Kentucky.

  22. tjfoose1 11/10/2013 at 8:53 PM #

    “We are at least 2 if not 3 seasons away from having a decent QB.”

    Really? An ESPN Top 100 player, the 3rd rank dual threat QB in his class, isn’t good enough for you?

    Who do we have to have on the roster for you to say we have a decent QB? Drew Brees? Tom Brady?

    Your comments on recruiting sound equally informed. No one has said DD is bringing in Top 10 classes, but with a late start, his 2013 class was ranked 47th. The 2014 class is currently at #36. True freshman are playing big roles on the current team.

    Whine if you must, I understand. We’re horrible and it ain’t fun. But try to inform yourself first and make it reasonable.

  23. JohnGalt78 11/10/2013 at 10:01 PM #

    We all should take a moment to thank tfoose for gracing with his vast knowledge. If I were smarter, I might be able to figure out why he spends his time with us idiots. I just can’t make sense of it.

  24. mak4dpak 11/10/2013 at 10:07 PM #

    If Glennon, Rivers, or Wilson were the qbs for this team, we wouldn’t even be in this cellar dweller mess. But of course blame the first year coach, surely it must be his fault. Really? I am curious of how many turnover we have this season, how many per game, and how many are because of the qbs? Don’t think the coach was on the field turning the ball over.

  25. vtpackfan 11/10/2013 at 10:09 PM #

    I’m sure that your wrong about two things:

    The D is far better then you offering it credit for

    &

    If it were a screen door now than it would be a shabby one on the front porch next to two broken refrigerators if “big name” Mike Leach held domain.

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