It wasn’t supposed to be this way

We will downloading and de-briefing all sides of the NC State basketball program in the coming days. To start, we’d love your thoughts on any of this that you would like to tackle.

From @joeovies Twitter account this morning. (Link)

In a less flippant approach, Ovies penned these talking points about the season’s end.

1. Defense and turnovers. Those might be the only talking points needed following NC State’s NCAA tournament exit. The Wolfpack couldn’t get a handle on either facet of the game in the first half, and they spent the second half trying to climb out of it.

It started when Temple blasted out to a 12-4 lead in the opening five minutes. The Wolfpack responded after Mark Gottfried was forced to call a timeout, if only for a fleeting moment. The Owls answered with a 9-0 run after NC State tied the game at 15 and slowly built a 16-point lead while the Wolfpack went scoreless in the final 4:05 of the half.
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NC State actually shot better and corrected the careless turnovers in the second half, but they were never able to generate enough stops to overtake Temple.

Khalif Wyatt continued a nasty trend of opponents careering it against Wolfpack’s inconsistent defensive effort, finishing the afternoon with 31 points on 9-of-22 shooting and 12 points at the line. Meanwhile, Jake O’Brien dropped four from beyond the arc.

[snip]

4. Lack of depth, a lingering issue throughout the year, bit NC State when key players didn’t have fouls to give during crunch time.

Lorenzo Brown, saddled with four fouls, was isolated during an in-bounds play and could not stop Temple with about 35 seconds left. Leslie, also dealing with four fouls, waited for help for about four seconds before eventually stopping the clock with his fifth foul.

5. Apparently, there was no switch to be flipped for NC State. If there was, they couldn’t find it stumbling through the dark. Much of the issues that plagued their up-and-down season popped up throughout their game against Temple.

Ultimately, they proved that conventional wisdom holds true – teams are who they are by the time March rolls around. NC State was a talented group that toyed with their food all season and they never really developed killer mentality. It truly manifested itself on the defensive end and slow starts in some of their most important contests.

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12-13 Basketball Mark Gottfried Miscellaneous & Fun Stuff

67 Responses to It wasn’t supposed to be this way

  1. ncsu1987 03/23/2013 at 12:10 PM #

    “I’m tired of discussing “talent”. This wasn’t a great team and the season ending shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone.”

    ^this. Everybody keeps talking about our 3/4 NBA players and our McD AA’s. I’m not sold on ANYBODY on this team as a slam dunk for making an NBA roster. And last time I checked, our McD AA’s are FRESHMEN. Everything else is undeserved hype, plain and simple.

    Yes, I had hoped for more this season, but I’m ecstatic with where the program is going. I think there was some underachievement this year-but only a little.

    I’m a firm believer in Ellison’s principle of TANSTAAFL, so no free passes from me for staff or players. But I think the staff’s true measure will be shown over the next two years.

  2. ganymebe 03/23/2013 at 12:18 PM #

    I know everyone expected better with all the preseason hype. I was certainly hoping for more. Just the same, I heard that our win total for the last two years was better than anything since the late 80’s. We have some excellent recruits coming in next year and already have some top 50 guys for the following year.

    At least we are winning and going to the NCAAs (vs Lowe) and God forid we ever have to watch that Princeton crap (herb) ever again.

  3. TMD11 03/23/2013 at 12:19 PM #

    To be sure, this season is NOT on Coach Gottfried at all…he did not have numerous options to effect change because the depth wasn’t there. This may be reiterating what HWhitney has said above, but it is the case. What also hurt was hearing how good we were, lofty expectations, and the psychological impact this ‘puffing’ created – malaise and less effort….What we did not see (luckily) were the many stupid things that we HAVE seen in the past 12 years. The ship is going in a good direction…next year lessons need to have been learned, defense practiced, and effort applied. If so, then could be a great year.

  4. wufpup76 03/23/2013 at 12:20 PM #

    “Disappointment, yes. Failure, No

    Building a program, yes. Finished. no.

    Recruiting, much improved. Depth, not yet.

    Offense, exciting. Defense, needs a lot of work.

    Right direction, yes. Wrong direction, no.

    Sarcastic and bitter fans, yes. Patient fans, no.

    Winning culture, no. Whining culture, yes.”

    ^This. 100% This.

  5. TMD11 03/23/2013 at 12:33 PM #

    …and ‘HEART’…the team needs to play with a lot of heart and pride every single game. This is one of the best basketball programs in the country – they’ve got to play like it and bring their ‘BEST’ every game. Not old enough to see previous years but the ’73/74 team did, the ’83 team did, and so did Carr, Whitney, McMillan, Del Negro, Webb, Monroe/Brown/Corch, Gugliotta and a few others including RHowell.
    If you aren’t going to do your best, then don’t play. Every minute counts, every shot counts, every movement counts. LEAVE IT on the court….

  6. Rick 03/23/2013 at 12:52 PM #

    This season did not turn out how I wanted.
    I think it is way too early to know if it was the players or the coach.
    We are still ahead of where I thought we would be after the Lowe crap.

    The monkey boards are officially insane.

  7. Gene 03/23/2013 at 1:55 PM #

    Gottfried got fired from Alabama for sucking.

    We’re hoping he can exceed whatever ceiling he had prior to coming here.

    So far I don’t see it.

    Maybe we can get lucky, but I don’t see us ever getting to where Duke or UNC are.

    An above average program yes. An elite program no.

  8. OutWestWolf 03/23/2013 at 1:56 PM #

    Hey – CJLeslie, watch the tournament, guess what the dudes playin today are doing – playing DEFENSE! I almost threw up watching him stand and then rotate 90-130 degrees to watch his man score, and then look for the ball on the other end and score it. Guess what CJ with all that talent you are half a player.

    Very likely a good kid, but doesn’t get it.

    I have refrained from spewing on this site because there is some repetitively dumb s*#t put out there by, quite frankly, people who delude themselves with how much they know about coaching at the D-1 level. For those of you who BROADCAST (and that is now what it is from this site, which is very well done for the most part) questioning of qualifications and intelligence of Coach Gottfried, get a clue he deserves the benefit of the doubt for while. He has brought a lot to the program. There is some work to do but the incessant questioning and amateur (I stress this adjective) critique everytime the players act goofy is unhealthy.

    The jury is and should be out for a little while!

  9. theghost 03/23/2013 at 2:33 PM #

    Gottfried didn’t get fired for sucking. Nonetheless, you won’t find one Alabama fan surprised at the outcome of this season.

    I’ve got frustration and disappointment for Gott and some of these players, but I’ll continue to support them, and reserve my anger and hatred for those who deserve it – Larry Monteith, and those responsible for putting and keeping him and those like him in control for the past 20+ years. If anybody knows where that guy is, please drop a flaming bag of poo on his doorstep for me.

    Thank God for Woodson, and the chance to finally get on the right track.

  10. Tyler_Durden 03/23/2013 at 2:36 PM #

    Everyone seems to be speaking in tongues when it comes to “team malcontents”. Let’s cut to the chase (imo)

    Offensively – inconsistent. If CJ comes back I would (as coach) tell him “The next 15 footer you take is your last for the half. You either drive or facilitate.”

    Defensively – Lutz is a “defensive genius”? Haven’t seen that.

    Heart – Lacking.

    Player Development – Lacking. The only reason Tyler got time was because of Lo’s injury. Needed to go at least 1-2 deeper before ACC play. To hell with rankings, play some players.

    In – game changes – Lacking. Absolutely cannot just roll the ball out and let them play.

    State lost multiple games by less than 5 points. That’s coaching.

    One more example? Free throws. Jesus.

  11. highstick 03/23/2013 at 2:52 PM #

    Alabama fan’s know basketball? Hmmm!

  12. BamaPack 03/23/2013 at 2:56 PM #

    Perhaps the lack of discipline, focus, and dedication to their jobs is a reflection of some things going on with the head guy himself. The coach has to set a high standard for his troops and I’m afraid that hasn’t happened in the last 6 months.

  13. Pack Mentality 03/23/2013 at 2:58 PM #

    I’ve waited until today to post so that I didn’t say something I regretted. But I have changed my mind on Leslie. I used to think that he was extremely talented and didn’t play hard. Now I think that he isn’t that talented aside from being able to jump really high and he doesn’t play hard. I am very worried that he will not be drafted and end up on the team again next year.

    I am also very glad that Wood is done here. I do not believe that he has been an asset. It is true that when he was hot we were not going to lose, but that doesn’t occur often enough for me to be happy with the rest of his games of playing like dogs***.

    I will miss Howell a great deal. Even when he didn’t have a great game you never questioned his work ethic. I wish he would have gotten in Leslie’s face more, but I think that Leslie is one of those that would sink further into himself in a non confrontational passive aggressive way and try even less if someone got in his face.

    I think Brown is the most talented on the team and I have no problem with his contributions. I would like him to stay, but don’t really know.

    I think the incoming guys and the freshman this year will make the team every bit as good next year as we were this year and hopefully better. I just want them to give a full effort every game and play tough defense. Good things will happen then. If a team doesn’t play tough D then it makes it look like they are taking plays off, and really pisses the fans off when they lose.

  14. theghost 03/23/2013 at 3:00 PM #

    ^^They know enough not to watch Alabama basketball.

  15. 13OT 03/23/2013 at 3:58 PM #

    If some of us seem a little impatient, please consider that we remember State basketball from the Everett Case days and are tired of suffering through another year of “what could have been”.

    I’ve played pick-up ball against at least one “Case player” in recent years, and although he lacked the raw talent you now see on the courts, his grasp of basketball was astounding. He credited Case for teaching him much of what he knew, such has how to block out, pass, hustle when it really counted, concentrate on free throws, and focus on what was going on around him and what was going to happen. He did all the little things I never saw players on the current Wolfpack team do. In short, this guy at 60 was light-years ahead of our current players in terms of fundamentals.

    I really don’t care what Gott did or didn’t do at ‘Bama. And I really wish we’d stop comparing him to Les, Lowe and Herb; I had jayvee coaches in middle school grades who could have coached circles around those three bozos.

    I wish all of our departing players well. I don’t know if Richard Howell will play NBA ball- his size may be against him but not his work ethic and attitude. I hope that Scott Wood will catch on to a team in need of a long-range shooter. I wish Jay Lewis well and thank him for sticking it out; hopefully he will get his degree. I hope that Lorenzo Brown will consider returning to school for his senior season, although I don’t know if that would enhance his chances in the pros as he may have reached his college potential already. I wish CJ Leslie well and thank him also for his contributions to the NC State program, but I sincerely hope he’ll move on because I think both he and our program will be better off without each other in 2013-14.

    Cutting to the chase, for those who are having second thoughts about our coach, try and remember what we all felt (and knew) after Lowe’s second season ended when we were bounced out of the ACCT opening round by Miami in a coyote-ugly loss. Lowe allowed a player named JJ to take our team into the toilet that season. Lowe should have been fired right then and there, but unfortunately Jed was driving the bus. It was beyond obvious that not only could Lowe not coach at the college level, he couldn’t manage at that level either. Although the player in question now is named CJ instead of JJ, I do think our current coach is far above the level of a coach that Lowe (or his two predecessors) was. Maybe he could have done a better job of managing this team, but thank goodness we aren’t at the MOC level of having to hire a team motivator, and at least, as someone else said, Gottfried admits his mistakes.

    We need to stop worrying about our coaches and focus on next season, which could well be the beginning of the end of our conference as we older fans knew it. I do not look forward to the influx of Big East teams into our league, and the yuppies’ cries to move our tourney to NYC and embrace this change.

    Screw them all.

  16. bluelena69 03/23/2013 at 4:53 PM #

    Gottfried did NOT get fired from Alabama for sucking. He resigned in the midst of a scandal involving a co-ed, which is ridiculous, in my opinion.

  17. Gene 03/23/2013 at 5:29 PM #

    “Cutting to the chase, for those who are having second thoughts about our coach”

    It’s not the coach. It’s the program.

    We’ve fallen so far behind, I don’t think it is possible to catch up. I don’t see us getting the depth and experience needed to be an elite team anytime soon.

    I’ve generally been optimistic about the coach and the direction of the program, but the longer I look at the scholarship spacing, who is coming in and the potential of early departures and transfers, I just don’t think we’ll reach the sort of critical mass of success, where we can “reload” every year.

    We’re rolling the dice again, with the 2013 class hoping to land some more people or else we’ll be both very thin depth wise and very young next year. Assuming an ideal situation with everyone back and getting Djitte, we’ll be:

    1. Leslie – PF (Sr)
    2. Brown – PG (Sr)
    3. Vandenberg – C (RSr)
    4. Warren – SF (Soph)
    5. Turner – SG/SF (RSoph?)
    6. Lewis PG (Soph)
    7. Purvis (SG) Soph
    8. Barber – PG (Fr)
    9. Anya – C (Fr)
    10. Washington – PF (Fr)
    11. Djitte – C (Fr)

    Vandy is who he is and I don’t expect him seeing the floor next year. Leslie is who he is. He can contribute, but he’ll have his bad games.

    Brown creates a log-jam at the PG position and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Lewis transfer.

    The rest of the C/PF positions will be manned by true freshman and I don’t see how that’ll make things better.

    We don’t have a true SG, though I’ve heard Turner can hit a jumper.

    This coaching staff has done the best with player development in a long time. As much as we crib about Leslie and Brown’s shortcomings they’ve gotten better. Howell is light years ahead of where he was under Lowe.

    But the above is an ideal situation.

    I’m assuming between Vandy, Brown and Leslie at least one of them won’t be back next year, if not all three and that leaves us back to 8-9 scholarship players and no front court depth (assuming we land Djitte).

    It’ll be with the 2015 recruits then, before we have any realistic hope of getting the depth and experience needed to be an elite team.

    There’s a lot that could go either right or wrong with this program, but given our history over the last two plus decades, I’m not overly optimistic that things will break our way.

  18. Wulfpack 03/23/2013 at 5:42 PM #

    There was loads of talent on this roster. You will see four guys from this squad be drafted. Brown and Howell are locks. Leslie’s stock has plummeted, but he could be a mid to late second rounder. And then there is Warren, where the sky is the limit. Throw in Scott Wood, Lewis and Purvis and there is most certainly “talent”.

    The way I have decided to view it is last year we overachieved. This year we underachieved. So he’s batting .500. Next year will be critical to his long term success here. We should be able to have a decent year and make the tourney for the third year in a row. It is not going to be easy. It will be a whole new group. Just play hard all the time is all I ask. Saw way too much lethargy this year, and never really saw Gott get on them publicly.

  19. graywolf 03/23/2013 at 6:04 PM #

    Wolfblood I:” have to say I’m a little taken back at the amount of State fans out there having complaints about Gottfried. I dont care how much you teach something if the student is not willing to learn then your instructions fall on deaf ears.

    Gottfried was not the one out on the court turning the ball over, dribbling off his feet, bobbling it off his hands on simple passes, leaving the 3 men wide open, etc. I dont think this team really cared, some will say thats a coaching motivational problem but I dont buy it with what he’s working with.

    Things didn’t turn out as well as we wanted but we won 24 games, split the blues, and made the tournament 2 years straight. Does anyone remember where we were before Gott?!? Talk about short memory.”

    We heard this same story about players vs the coach for a decade with Sendek. Its time for results which to most of the old timers like me is hanging a BANNER. And, I don’t mean from the Old Spice tournament either.

  20. graywolf 03/23/2013 at 6:14 PM #

    ‘Perhaps the lack of discipline, focus, and dedication to their jobs is a reflection of some things going on with the head guy himself. The coach has to set a high standard for his troops and I’m afraid that hasn’t happened in the last 6 months.’

    Students say that he is separated from his wife/family and it has caused problems with the team as well. I don’t know if this is true.

  21. vtpackfan 03/23/2013 at 6:23 PM #

    Only three ACC coaches have taken their first two teams to the NCAAs. Guthridge, Roy and Gottfried.

    Why is that factoid meaningless. Easy. Alabama/’Bama/’Bama/’Bama. I like having Gott as the HC-plain and simple. I hope for him he can get to about two or three straight more NCAAs so that he’ll have some decent prospects to investigate coaching wise. The culture surrounding Men’s BBall is toxic. It’s been easy street when HNSBSH and Lowe had to go, but the run them off crowd is going to have to get a little creative.

  22. Mike 03/23/2013 at 7:11 PM #

    Anyone commenting/speculating on the coach and his personal life should be banned.

    Rumor and gossip has no place in this thread or life in general.

  23. Mike 03/23/2013 at 7:15 PM #

    As for the players lacking fundamentals, and going back to Case – in the old days the coaches taught the fundamentals and the players listened.

    Today, we have AAU coaches who only care about the kid getting the league, where they (the AAU coach) hopes to cash in as part of the posse. They dont teach fundamentals or even the basics of the game. THIS is why our kids seem to lack basketball IQ.

    John Wooden’s first practice was always – are you ready for this – how to put on your socks and shoes. Details, down to the minute details, teaching the kids. We really dont have a choice not to recruit AAU kids as they are all in AAU but we need ones that will be teachable and coachable.

  24. Alpha Wolf 03/23/2013 at 8:10 PM #

    We’ve fallen so far behind, I don’t think it is possible to catch up.

    Thinking that, we won’t.

    Other schools have done it. We can too. And don’t buy the crap about Duke and Carolina being close to us, either. If anything, that’s a help and not a hindrance because it only underlines the fact that this is the #2 college basketball market in the country.

  25. Packzingo 03/23/2013 at 8:34 PM #

    Our program has made tremendous strides over the past two years. First problem, the media projections which we all “bought into” was such an exaggeration, based on the performance of just a few games in March of 2012 plus the returning personel. I’m also guilty and I should have know better.

    We get 24 wins and we’re bitchin??? Come on. Complaining about a 5* athletic in CJ, we would kill for that kind of player several years back. Its difficult to remember that these kids are 21, 22 years old with a athletic history that most of us can’t relate to. They are consistently praised even when they screw up, unlike what most of us went thur in the 70’s (gave away my age). You screw up back then, you’ve got someone spittin in your face with a bunch of four letter words! Today, thats not acceptable ????

    Were there coaching issues …………. sure. Were there player issues ……….. sure. We all can sit on our butts and see that, but blending the attitudes and abilities into a cohesive unit obviously isn’t so easy. It would be so easy to say that we would be better off without a couple of players but I would certainly disagree. You know what you have and what they bring to the table, its up to the coaching staff to put these kids into a position to succeed. Unfortunatey, you have to work with the players that want to be there. I feel that if we had a true center that could contribute, the on court issues with CJ would be totally different. You have two low post players at about 6’7″ and CJ continues to go to his “left” trying to make a right handed shot, reducing his leaping ability asset considerably, making it easier to defend and he gets totally frustrated. Howell, bless his heart, worked his rear off and performed consistently dispite the efforts of his team mates. Scott, well, he’s was just a shooter and thats pretty much it.

    For the freshmen, I hope that Tyler sticks it out and I hope that someone works with RP and TJ on there shot motions. Watch Scott Woods free throw motion and then watch RP and TJ’s motion. RP andTJ wll never have any consistence from the freethrow line with that much wrist movement. Surely a coach is working with them? Should we have made 3 maybe 4 more free throws per game, we would be watching the Pack on Sunday instead of reading over our various complaints! GO PACK!!

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