It wasn’t supposed to be this way

We will downloading and de-briefing all sides of the NC State basketball program in the coming days. To start, we’d love your thoughts on any of this that you would like to tackle.

From @joeovies Twitter account this morning. (Link)

In a less flippant approach, Ovies penned these talking points about the season’s end.

1. Defense and turnovers. Those might be the only talking points needed following NC State’s NCAA tournament exit. The Wolfpack couldn’t get a handle on either facet of the game in the first half, and they spent the second half trying to climb out of it.

It started when Temple blasted out to a 12-4 lead in the opening five minutes. The Wolfpack responded after Mark Gottfried was forced to call a timeout, if only for a fleeting moment. The Owls answered with a 9-0 run after NC State tied the game at 15 and slowly built a 16-point lead while the Wolfpack went scoreless in the final 4:05 of the half.
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NC State actually shot better and corrected the careless turnovers in the second half, but they were never able to generate enough stops to overtake Temple.

Khalif Wyatt continued a nasty trend of opponents careering it against Wolfpack’s inconsistent defensive effort, finishing the afternoon with 31 points on 9-of-22 shooting and 12 points at the line. Meanwhile, Jake O’Brien dropped four from beyond the arc.

[snip]

4. Lack of depth, a lingering issue throughout the year, bit NC State when key players didn’t have fouls to give during crunch time.

Lorenzo Brown, saddled with four fouls, was isolated during an in-bounds play and could not stop Temple with about 35 seconds left. Leslie, also dealing with four fouls, waited for help for about four seconds before eventually stopping the clock with his fifth foul.

5. Apparently, there was no switch to be flipped for NC State. If there was, they couldn’t find it stumbling through the dark. Much of the issues that plagued their up-and-down season popped up throughout their game against Temple.

Ultimately, they proved that conventional wisdom holds true – teams are who they are by the time March rolls around. NC State was a talented group that toyed with their food all season and they never really developed killer mentality. It truly manifested itself on the defensive end and slow starts in some of their most important contests.

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12-13 Basketball Mark Gottfried Miscellaneous & Fun Stuff

67 Responses to It wasn’t supposed to be this way

  1. LRM 03/23/2013 at 9:10 AM #

    Richard Howell deserved better.

  2. aprice16 03/23/2013 at 9:25 AM #

    The point about lack of depth is something that hasn’t been addressed enough this year in my opinion. To play uptempo the way Gottfried wants to do, State needs to have a solid 8 to 10 man rotation. This allows them to put forth the effort on both ends of the floor and help with foul trouble, but just as importantly bench guys when they need benching. You couldn’t bench anybody this year because there was no one to take their place and the players probably knew that.

  3. rtpack24 03/23/2013 at 9:26 AM #

    LRM is right Richard Howell deserved better from his teammates. It is unbelievable that we leave their leading 3 pt shooter wide open for shots time after time. Once again we had that too cool attitude in the first half. How can you be in the NCAA tournament and not be ready to play. I have defended Coach Gott and staff a lot this year but when it is all said and done the team’s play is on them. Extremely disappointing season overall!

  4. StateFans 03/23/2013 at 9:29 AM #

    As I said for years during Sidney’s time here — we’ve got the coolest looking guys in the country. The way they strut and don’t exert effort and hang around is very coooool.

  5. sjmac11 03/23/2013 at 9:46 AM #

    There is nothing to examine. The honest real blue collar wolfpack fans know the truth. Last year this team played relatively the same with one exemption, the cancerous attitudes had not affected the whole team. This year and the numerous games with a few not caring was just too much of an impact on the other guys. If you watched any of the games this year you should’ve expected this (although I honestly thought we’d beat Temple). CJ just proved to be too strong in the negative way and some of the guys were just done with it a long time ago. As one above stated the biggest tragedy of this year is how hard Richard Howell played. That guy did it every damn game and his fellow upper class men shat all over him. I have so many bad names to call the three I most loathe but I’ll save it. You all probably feel the same way and I don’t want to appear red neck on here. I was excited to see how we’d play against Indiana but it’s probably for the best.

    Its hard to have a loved one suffering through an ailment you know their not going to survive. You love and enjoy the time you have with them but when they pass on to that better place, there is a sense of relief among the family.

    I’m relieved

  6. WolfBlood 03/23/2013 at 9:48 AM #

    I have to say I’m a little taken back at the amount of State fans out there having complaints about Gottfried. I dont care how much you teach something if the student is not willing to learn then your instructions fall on deaf ears.

    Gottfried was not the one out on the court turning the ball over, dribbling off his feet, bobbling it off his hands on simple passes, leaving the 3 men wide open, etc. I dont think this team really cared, some will say thats a coaching motivational problem but I dont buy it with what he’s working with.

    Things didn’t turn out as well as we wanted but we won 24 games, split the blues, and made the tournament 2 years straight. Does anyone remember where we were before Gott?!? Talk about short memory.

    I agree Howell deserved much better, love the guys attitude and work ethic. Easily my favorite player since Hodge.

  7. freshmanin83 03/23/2013 at 9:52 AM #

    FT and turnovers. Lack of concentration and desire to do what it takes to dominate and win.

  8. Fastback68 03/23/2013 at 9:55 AM #

    Graduated in 89. It seems upperclassmen bad blood gets passed on to younger players. Hoping for clean break next year. 3 – 5 freshmen, 3 sophs and a transfer. Sendek and Lowe never really had control of team. Gott and staff don’t have it either. Do what I say or sit on the bench. I would rather have 2 star players who agive a shit than 5 star players who think its acceptable to take entire half of games off.

  9. Lumpy 03/23/2013 at 10:10 AM #

    As I said on PP (Where some people have just lost their motherf***ing minds. It’s getting Biblical over there.) this season was a huge disappointment. There is nothing worse than watching a talented team capable of beating anyone sleepwalk through important games. But in the big picture, and compared to some other NC State crashes, I don’t think it’s as bad as everyone is making it out to be . 24 wins, beat UNC and Duke, Tied for 3rd ( I know, but still) Howell played great all year, and Warren looks like our go to guy as long as he wants to stay.
    I know after last year, and the preseason hype, everyone wanted to see us take our place at the top. But it doesn’t always work like that. The path to success isn’t a straight paved road, and sometimes you have to double back. I guess what I’m trying to say is that, yes this season can absolutely be classified as a failure. But I’d rather be back at the drawing board trying to improve on 24-11 and 11-7 in the ACC then a team trying to right an 18-17 overall season and asking why they went 5-18 in conference.

  10. TheAliasTroll 03/23/2013 at 10:33 AM #

    “Gottfried was not the one out on the court turning the ball over, dribbling off his feet, bobbling it off his hands on simple passes, leaving the 3 men wide open, etc.”

    Jeeze, sounds a lot like something you’d hear 3 or 4 years ago, just substitute “Lowe” for “Gottfried” in your sentence.

    Last I heard Gott is the HEAD coach. That would give him the authority to bench players as he sees fit. That didn’t happen, he chose the coddling rout and hoped the team would eventually click. Hindsight is 20/20 you know, but it didn’t happen for this team and so now they can watch the rest of the tournament from their couch.

    Huge opportunity here for Gott to use this as a teaching moment for the youngsters.

  11. VaWolf82 03/23/2013 at 10:39 AM #

    I’m tired of discussing “talent”. This wasn’t a great team and the season ending shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone.

  12. GApack04 03/23/2013 at 10:52 AM #

    There is plenty of blame to go around for both players and coaches alike. With that said the data that is out there on Gott is what scares me the most. What we saw this year is how he coaches and has coached for years. He is much better than Lowe but slightly better than Herb. Every time I watch VCU play I get so pissed, because that is the guy I wanted. It’s like seeing that hot chick that turned you down and she keeps looking great over the years.

  13. StateFans 03/23/2013 at 10:56 AM #

    Wolfblood,

    You can’t look at this season in a vacuum related to Gottfried as he had almost a decade track record at Alabama. Unfortunately, many of the problems that plagued this program both on and off the court this season were very consistent with a long term track record at Alabama.

    If that track record didn’t already exist, then you wouldn’t see any criticism or questioning of Gottfried. But, that isn’t the reality of the situation.

  14. WolfBlood 03/23/2013 at 11:03 AM #

    I don’t disagree totally Alias, but can anyone look at CJL and tell me that guy is coachable? In my opinion he isnt. And Gott just hoped like the rest of us it would click and it simply did not.

    It is what it is at this point but seeing State fans starting to ride Gott after year 2 and a NCAA appearance makes me cringe.

  15. 13OT 03/23/2013 at 11:06 AM #

    The problem began when State was ranked #6 in the pre-season national polls and were picked to win the ACC. The players bought into it, and the rest is history.

  16. WolfBlood 03/23/2013 at 11:10 AM #

    StateFans,

    I get that and agree, maybe the guy isnt the best at coaching defense. Hopefully the assistants can help out in that department moving forward.

  17. wufpup76 03/23/2013 at 11:26 AM #

    Well, that video was pretty funny.

    And try to relax. Gottfried’s disappointed in how the season turned out – he’s said as much. It’d be one thing if he were making Lowe-type excuses, but he’s not.

    He admits fault – which is a great sign in any person to me. Gott’s just being a realist and I agree with his perspective. While this season – in a vacuum – was moderately disappointing, the program as a whole continues to move forward … Or at least continue it’s slow turn around from heading full speed into the abyss.

    I agree with Gott’s ‘turning a freight liner around’ analogy. With the amount of inertia and negativity surrounding this program when he came in – it’s no small task. At the same time, I think people should be disappointed with how the season turned out – the talent was there to do more than what was accomplished. Gottfried acknowledges this.

    Not sure how I can see people being disappointed with the program though. Gottfried and company took a bottom tier ACC program and went to the Sweet 16 in one season and back to the NCAA Tournament again the next. In two seasons, Gottfried and staff have basically accomplished more than Les, Herb, and Sidney combined. There is no other way to see this other than that is positive progress.

    Now, how much of that was the talent that was on hand and how much of it was the staff? Well, they’re certainly not mutually exclusive. It was indeed both. I’ve seen a lot of positives – an overwhelming amount – from Gottfried and his staff. Of course there’s some question marks and concerns too – but who doesn’t have those?

    In my estimation, the real test begins now. I see more than enough positive signs to buy in. Good recruiting, positive motivation, understanding the fan base, media handling – among others. The ‘Sidney’s players are poisoning everyone’ stuff is not really gonna fly after this season regardless of whether Lo + CJ stay (I don’t really buy that anyway).

    I continue to think we’re on the uptick. Positive progress is being made. Now, if our media friends are correct and everyone leaves early and/or transfers then it’s going to go to hell in a handbasket anyway and there’s nothing we can do about it.

    But I’m not gonna freak out until it’s time to freak out. In two seasons under a new staff we’ve been to the NCAA’s twice with one Sweet 16. We’ve won a lot of games. Guess what? I’ll take it.

  18. Hawkeye Whitney 03/23/2013 at 11:26 AM #

    Gott didn’t have many options to bench players this year. Painter and even Harris and De Thaey would have been options to allow Gott to exercise more control over the guys who weren’t 100% committed. Hey, the sky isn’t falling, and next year will be interesting. We might be pretty good. The only problem is now we have to be good compared to the blues, Louisville, Syracuse and Pitt…..Gott and his guys have to step it up.

  19. redcanine 03/23/2013 at 11:27 AM #

    “I’m tired of discussing “talent”. This wasn’t a great team and the season ending shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone.”

    Amen to that, brother.

    Big & Tall teams bruised us up all season long because they were bigger and stronger. IMO, that’s a measurable aspect of “talent”. Wood was our only good three point shooter. Talent?

    We can run a beautiful fast break though. But is that “talent” or execution?

  20. TheAliasTroll 03/23/2013 at 11:43 AM #

    “I’m tired of discussing “talent”. This wasn’t a great team and the season ending shouldn’t have been a surprise to anyone.”

    Did Temple have 3 McDonald’s all Americans, at least two guys headed to the NBA draft, along with one of the best shooters in the nation?

    This team had plenty of talent this year and they pissed it away.

  21. BrickyardBonfire 03/23/2013 at 11:45 AM #

    I think we have set expectations much higher than we normally would with a new coach given our end of the year success in the 2011/2012 season. Typically, this type of conversation would not start for 4 or 5 years when the coach has all his own players. I’m no longer in NC so I’m not familiar with the discussion around our coach “chasing the local female”. Is their legitimacy to this?

  22. Wufpacker 03/23/2013 at 11:57 AM #

    As usual, deserve’s got nothing to do with it.

    I don’t think the fans have a clue about all the different things that were pulling against this team (and/or pulling them apart…say it however you like), but all things considered I think in a way that it’s amazing they found a way to win 24 games.

    The criticism of how the team was coached is way off base in some ways and dead on fair in other ways. Regardless of anything, it’s Gott’s show and he best keep that in mind because it’ll be Gott back behind a microphone if he doesn’t establish that.

    Bottom line, taken without the preseason hype the season was not the abject failure many of us might be feeling right now. But there is definite room for improvement on a lot of fronts and the next couple of years will be telling.

  23. Master 03/23/2013 at 11:57 AM #

    Disappointment, yes. Failure, No

    Building a program, yes. Finished. no.

    Recruiting, much improved. Depth, not yet.

    Offense, exciting. Defense, needs a lot of work.

    Right direction, yes. Wrong direction, no.

    Sarcastic and bitter fans, yes. Patient fans, no.

    Winning culture, no. Whining culture, yes.

  24. freshmanin83 03/23/2013 at 11:57 AM #

    I flipped to another channel briefly during a timeout and Charles Barkley and crew were discussing the Pack and their disappointing season. Charles and Kenny too, I think, said that they did not hustle enough. They played with guys like NCSU team before and they want to look all smooth and cool and not sweat and still think you can win games. You can’t do it. They played with players who could have been really really good even great but were more interested in smooth and cool than in hustle and grinding it out. No urgency, no hunger. Go home.

    Something along those lines.

  25. Master 03/23/2013 at 12:01 PM #

    I told my son earlier in the season that we looked like a great AAU team auditioniong for the next step in our playing career. What they never seemed to understand was that these games counted. This year’s disappointment was clearly on the player IMHO.

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