‘The most destructive fan base we’ve ever seen’ [Updated 2:30pm]

(If you haven’t noticed, SFN has been – and will continue to be – on fire as of late with a high volume of new content. With this said, we urge you to take some time to look down the front page of the main blog so you don’t miss some of the fun entries & comments sections that have developed the last couple of days. As always, are message forums (linked here) and our Twitter feed (linked here) are also valuable sources for fantastic real-time conversations and information. Lastly, if you are looking for Saturday afternoon basketball conversation you can click here)


After the college basketball officiating debacle that was also known as the ‘2012 ACC Tournament’ the popular Duke Basketball Report blog (“DBR”) posted an entry that SFN chose not to link for many reasons – most of which was because the quality of the piece was so far below what we expect as minimum standards that we genuinely were concerned that a UNC fan had hacked DBR. (I’m serious…if you dare click on the link we provide in the next paragraph, then I want you to pretend you were reading the piece on a UNC website instead of a Duke site and tell me which frame of reference was more befitting of the piece).

The article – which surely made credible contributors like Al Featherston and Barry Jacobs cringe – is a CLASSIC ‘straw man’ piece that, in addition to being chocked full of factual inaccuracies, takes the unoriginal, tired approach of criticizing NC State fans (what a shock!!) while pretending that many past NC State administrators and coaches had significantly more talent than the national job market has clearly attached to them. The POS piece can be seen by clicking here (if you so choose). The following provides some laughs for you:

It takes a lot of nerve to blame someone else when you screw up that much, but there you have it.

But here’s the rub: people are onto it, and by people, we mean potential future coaches. They understand that State fans have, in the past couple of decades, run off or ruined the careers of Les Robinson (who memorably said that he would step aside because wolves in the same pack shouldn’t fight), Herb Sendek, who at least had State in the tournament on a regular basis, Sidney Lowe, who was one of their own, football coaches Mike O’ Cain and Chuck Amato, and A.D.’s Todd Turner and Lee Fowler.


Instead of being thrilled, instead of being happy to finally be heading out of the wilderness, what do you see? Whining about referee conspiracies, about the ACC being out to get them, muttering about finding a new conference because their current one makes life too tough.

It’s amazing.

Things will never get better that way. And if you don’t believe that on face value, look at the worlds Dean Smith and Mike Krzyzewski walked into.


Unless of course, they catch on to what they’re about to walk into with the State fan base and decide, like the departed coaches and A.D.’s, they don’t want the headache.

Maybe then State fans can start recruiting players for a different sport.

It’s the most destructive fan base we’ve ever seen.


There is SO MUCH that is bad and wrong with this condescending, uneducated article that I am not going to take time to correct the mistakes and explain things to an author whose frame of reference clearly does not extend beyond the second Bush’s residence in the White House.

But, I will ask a couple of questions of simple logic without even mentioning the destruction of the career of a great man and coach named Pete Gaudet:

(1) If NC State deserves criticism for actually employing the awesome talents of Lee Fowler, Les Robinson, Herb Sendek, Todd Turner and Mike O’Cain — then what level of criticism does Duke University – and every other school in America – deserve for NEVER hiring these Michelangelos when some of them have been available for hire for more than a decade now?

(2) How do the tenures of the aforementioned past leaders at NC State compare to the tenure of Duke football coaches of the past?

Duke football is perhaps THE WORST job in all of Division One college football; so, what would be reasonable expectations for a fanbase that averages about 15,000 (of their own) fans per game and is consistently one of the worst in America? Surely, a comparison of the reasonable Duke fans to the destructive NC State fans will yield an OBVIOUS advantage for the reasonable Dookies! Let’s see —

Mike O’Cain was allowed to coach at NC State for SEVEN YEARS (while compiling an 0-7 record vs UNC-CH despite being favored in 4 of the 7 contests).

Les Robinson was allowed to become the least successful coach in the history of NC State Basketball for SIX YEARS; and then was PROMOTED to ATHLETICS DIRECTOR and was in Raleigh for more than TEN YEARS!!

Chuck Amato was provided an opportunity to coach at his alma mater for SEVEN YEARS.

Todd Turner was allowed to ruin our athletics program for SEVEN YEARS.

Lee Fowler was allowed to ruin our athletics program for TEN YEARS.

Herb Sendek chose to stay in Raleigh for TEN YEARS en route to becoming the second least successful coach in the last 70 years of NC State basketball before he willfully CHOSE to leave Raleigh for Arizona State.

By comparison:

Tom Harp (1966-1970) was allowed to coach at Duke for FIVE YEARS.

Mike McGee (1971-1978) was allowed to coach at Duke for EIGHT YEARS (less time than Lee Fowler, Herb Sendek and Les Robinson spent in Raleigh).

Red Wilson (1979-1982) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR YEARS.

Steve Sloan (1983-1986) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR YEARS.

Steve Spurrier (1987-1989) chose to stay in Durham for THREE YEARS en route to becoming the most successful coach in the last 50+ years of Duke football before he willfully CHOSE to leave.

Barry Wilson (1989-1993) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR YEARS.

Fred Goldsmith (1994-1999) was allowed to coach at Duke for FIVE YEARS.

Carl Franks (1999-2003) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR and a HALF YEARS.

Ted Roof (2003-2007) was allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR and a HALF YEARS.

David Cutcliffe (2007-current) has been allowed to coach at Duke for FOUR YEARS and is now known to be on the proverbial hot-seat.

Yep, can’t anyone with an IQ above functionally retarded now understand why NC State fans deserve criticism for destructive behavior?


So, with DBR and Duke fans sitting on such a haughty and judgemental perch of reasonableness and support, imagine ‘our’ aghast when ‘we’ woke up this morning to learn that the Duke fanbase melted down so destructively over night after losing in the NCAA Tournament that DBR had to actually take their message forums OFFLINE to protect the fanbase from even more criticism than would typically befall the nation’s most hated college basketball program?!?!

Just let that hypocrisy of judging others for being ‘reasonable’ and ‘destructive’ sink in for a while!

All of this coming from a fan base that is SO SPOILED that their ‘famed’ students abandoned their basketball this year to the point where Duke released unused and unclaimed student basketball tickets for public sales. That’s right, the great “Cameron Crazies” failed to pick up their minuscule allotment of tickets for their rinky-dink 8,000 seat arena (within walking range in the center of campus) for the most consistently successful college basketball program of the last 30 years.

But, State fans are unreasonable!


You know…I think I will take ‘unreasonable’ when it comes with acknowledgement from almost every local media outlet that NC State fans are by far the most passionate and broadly supportive fans in the area. Imagine the ‘unreasonableness’ of ranking in the Top 20 of national basketball attendance for eleven consecutive years while producing but a SINGLE team that finished the season ranked in the Top 25?! You know…that really IS unreasonable!

If you want to know about the real support of Duke fans, all you need to do is go to a football game at Wallace-Wade Stadium (that NC State fans aren’t filling)..or, take a look at the turnout for their home baseball game yesterday afternoon.

If you want to know about the real support of Duke fans, just wait until Coach K rides into the sunset and all of those band-wagoners who couldn’t get accepted to ECU start looking for their next stop.

Related: Deadspin’s Coach K is a Dick

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58 Responses to ‘The most destructive fan base we’ve ever seen’ [Updated 2:30pm]

  1. wufpup76 03/17/2012 at 12:09 PM #

    It was a hatchet job. An extremely lazy essay that had but one perspective and line of thought.

    Don’t dignify it.

  2. IMFletcherWolf 03/17/2012 at 12:10 PM #

    I can’t wait to read the upcoming article from DBR about Duke’s “destructive” fans.

  3. TOBtime 03/17/2012 at 12:19 PM #

    You know, the shot of the baseball stadium could be any ACC stadium on a Friday afternoon except Clemson and Fl. State.

    I asked a guy recently to tell me the accomplishments of Duke basketball pre-K. I thought he was going to have a stroke coming up with something, anything. Yes, they made some Final 4’s and a NC game or two but that was it. Plenty of teams did NOT go to the NCAA tourney and that’s in my lifetime. If the Dukies are as smart as they say they are I’m pretty sure they will be singing “slip slidin away'” when K leaves. Duke won’t recruit by itself like the hole does and they are TERRIFIED by Mark Gottfried. We may just become the new team to hate for them.

    Too bad, too sad.

  4. Wufpacker 03/17/2012 at 12:22 PM #

    Today’s overriding theme continues: Suck it, Duke.

    I usually have at least a grudging respect for DBR. In this case, however, we have a pitiful effort to rationalize why NC State has no business succeeding because we’ve run off so many future HOF’ers.

    If the result of being whiny and destructive (their words) is getting rid of coaches (Les, Sid, HWSNBN) and administrators (Turner, Fowler) that can’t cut it, then I’m fine with it.

  5. statemech 03/17/2012 at 12:39 PM #

    TOBtime, you must not have been at the wake @ state baseball game last night, it was a solid turnout (don’t have number but if anyone cares enough they can look for it) and a great atmosphere. of course it was a beautiful day too, but our top 20 team is a lot of fun to watch this year

  6. Lumpy 03/17/2012 at 12:41 PM #

    Yeah, that article blows. Which is sad because DBR usually gives you some of the best ACC basketball analysis, but whatever. Go read any board or blog having to do with Duke this morning and tell me who has a ref conspiracy today. I’d say 1 out of every 4 comments has to do with not calling charges (loud schadenfreude inner laughter).

    The truth is that the ACC has a real ref problem. Not in some grand conspiracy to keep certain teams down, but rather, calling ticky tack fouls for the slightest infractions and blowing the whistle anytime someone flops. Watch the highlights last night. McCollum must’ve beat Rivers or Curry off the dribble four or five times last night around the top of the key. Both fell down like they were taking a charge and Duke’s forwards were slow leave their man and pick up on D because they were expecting a whistle. Which I can only assume didn’t come because that officiating crew were not familiar with Duke’s “tendencies”.

    If you think it’s State fan perpetuating a ref conspiracy in the ACC, then check your Twitter and FB feeds this morning. EVERYONE saw it. Sportscasters, fans, Barkley, and the writers all called it right, The refs didn’t call it like Duke was used to. Lehigh was allowed to play much more physical than other teams do against Duke, and they flat out beat them in every facet.

    I’m not saying that the NCAA officiating has been top notch. They blatantly robbed UNC-Asheville and Notre Dame in the first round. But there’s no doubt that they way they allow the game to flow and allow contact that has nothing to do with prohibiting play is a better product to watch. ACC officiating takes on a whole different look, and that needs to change for the better of the league.

    A lot of people thought Mark Cuban was paranoid for constantly screaming about the poor officiating in the NBA. The commissioner just kept dismissing it as the ravings of a bored millionaire owner. Then it turned out their refs were fixing games. The officials are not above reproach. There’s no conspiracy in calling out the ACC’s officiating problem. The conspiracy theories come from the ACC refusing to do anything about it.

  7. Scooter 03/17/2012 at 12:41 PM #

    The part about running out Les Robinson made me choke. Obviously the author either was in diapers or a foreign country during that time.

  8. TLeo 03/17/2012 at 12:44 PM #

    Talk about whining fans…how about whining players? In the post game interview with Rivers yesterday he stated how it was so disappointing to lose to a team with inferior talent. Granted I did not hear all the interviews but of the ones I heard I did not hear a single Duke player man up and congratulate Lehigh for the win. It was all “poor us. bla, blah…”. Lehigh clearly was the better team yesterday and they just can’t stand to admit it. What a difference non acc officials makes,, eh Duke? LOL

  9. StateFans 03/17/2012 at 12:44 PM #

    Evidently every other school in the country have even WORSE FANS than NC State fans because there ain’t anybody else out there that have been hiring Lee Fowler, Les Robinson, Todd Turner and Mike O’Cain into any leadership role in their programs.

  10. vtpackfan 03/17/2012 at 12:46 PM #

    Most narcissistic coach, team and fan base ever. Look no further than Puke poster child Austin Rivers post game reflections:
    “We lost to a (expletive) 15 seed.”

    Sub Zero, try sub classy. Just like the Rat when cameras aren’t rolling.

  11. StateFans 03/17/2012 at 12:48 PM #

    Rivers also blamed his teammates in comments after the game. Basically said that he and the coaches were the only ones to bring anything on Friday.

    I guess he doesn’t have to care anymore since he won’t be around in the future. What a turd.

  12. 4PackinMB 03/17/2012 at 12:54 PM #

    Scooter, that is correct! And as far as the fans running off future HOFers….lets see…Is Todd Turner headed to the HOF? Les? HWSNBN…he has really been tearing up the desert and the PAc-10, 12, uh? There’s a real future HOFer!! It is amazing the dribble some can spew without acknowledgement of any facts.

  13. wolfie91 03/17/2012 at 1:02 PM #

    It was an odd article by DBR. I do think there is a balance between talking about officiating and just going out there and focusing on winning no matter what the circumstances. And while I do agree that our fans have been rough on some folks associated with our university who’ve been less than successful, we’re certainly not the only fanbase to do that.

  14. El Scrotcho 03/17/2012 at 1:15 PM #

    Ok as a message board topic. Bit of a head scratcher putting that quote up there front and center on the blog at this point. Your first instinct to ignore the article and not dignify it with a response until the slow days post-tourney was correct, IMO.

  15. TopTenPack 03/17/2012 at 1:21 PM #

    I hope the author is a future lawyer. He can really argue a point with limited facts.

    NC State forced out Les Robinson? The Les Robinson who loss to Campbell? NC State forced out Mike O’Cain? The Mike O’Cain who loss to ECU then UNC and has since not been able to find a head coaching position? NC State forced out Lee Fowler? The Lee Fowler who fumbled a basketball search and who was a general embarrassment to NC State?

    Demanding excellence is not a bad fan base. Give us excellence and see our reaction.

    And I have to agree with El Scrotcho…Don’t we have better things to do?

  16. eas 03/17/2012 at 1:29 PM #

    I thought the Duke game last night was hilarious. My wife and I could not stop laughing at all the FLOPS that were not called for a change (she is a Tarhole but it didn’t matter last night)I normally pull for the ACC to have a good Showing but not this time.

    It is amazing to see them play with NON ACC refs who don’t use tendencies. Duke has become the greatest acting crew of all time and should be recognized at the Oscars every year. I use to have so much respect for K and crew. However, they are just a royal PIA to watch and routinely create calls they need. Not a bad idea but it just sucks to watch.

    The Duke article on NCSU was pure white dog $hit. News flash….We all are happy with the Gottfather and he is happy here. Fans treat him like gold.

  17. Alpha Wolf 03/17/2012 at 1:45 PM #

    Obviously, this is a poison pen piece that’s not in line with the general quality of the DBR. Take it for what it’s worth, a poorly-penned post that belongs on a Scout.com message board.

    Does State have some unreasonable and irrational fans? Sure. But does that make us any different than any other fanbase for any sport, anywhere? Nope. And if you think we’re crazy, you should read some of the Barclay’s Premiere League forums.

    All in all, I think that ANY fanbase that’s lost thirteen straight to its rival would have been incensed by that call. Imagine if an equally questionable had happened to Auburn fans in the Alabama-Auburn football game last season. Do you think that Auburn fans would have set the Internet on fire? Do you think that they would have been lined up on hold to scream about it on the following Monday’s Paul Finebaum show? You’re damn right they would have. As would SoCar fans if Clemson had gotten the benefit of an iffy call, or if Michigan had lost to Ohio State in the same way. It’s just how it works, DBR.

    But…if you want to talk about officiating: all one has to do to see that there’s something amiss with refereeing is read the articles linked in this article on Truth About Duke:


    Note, I don’t normally give much credence to “fire(coach name here).com” sites or even a site like TAD, because usually their opinions are skewed by irrational rage. In this case, however, the article links sources from the mainstream press.

    There really is some fire beneath this smoke. Too many smart people who are relatively objective are mentioning it from time to time for it not to be so. Me, I ten to believe what my grandfather taught me: never believe in a conspiracy when incompetence is a reasonable explanation.

  18. jbpackfan 03/17/2012 at 2:12 PM #

    Ruining careers? Hello, Pete Gaudet. Duke had an assistant coach take the fall for a disaster season… And they say State ruins careers and doesn’t stand by their guys? Hilarious.

  19. wufpup76 03/17/2012 at 2:19 PM #

    Only the Desert Fox can save Duke now.

  20. TOBtime 03/17/2012 at 2:21 PM #

    ^statemech, that is awesome to hear about the Friday turnout and glad to hear it. The last time I was able to see a Friday afternoon game it HAD to be in the afternoon because there were no lights and Ray Tanner was coaching. The Saturday/Sunday games I’ve been to over the last 5 years have been packed. Hope it stays that way for baseball! Those guys don’t get as much credit as they deserve.

  21. Pack1998 03/17/2012 at 2:24 PM #

    What a POS peice by the normally respectable DBR.

    State has all the coaches it needs – I don’t even understand the logic of that point that coaches won’t come to State due to our fan base, which I guess is the central point . . .

    Maybe Jay Bilas wrote it. I get the feeling Bilas is getting testy around NC State’s improvement and the potential upside we have . . . His comment about States NCAA selection celebration was low class. Are bubble teams not supposed to be excited

    Gottfried has this going in the right direction.

  22. redcanine 03/17/2012 at 2:37 PM #

    Thanks for starting this thread. I almost shat a brick when I read that nonsense earlier this week. Those smug pricks…

  23. BJD95 03/17/2012 at 2:45 PM #

    This kind of nonsensical buffoonery just validates what a growing number (I have been on this soapbox since 1991) of Pack fans have been saying for years – logic dictates that you should despise Duke and what it “stands for” every bit as much as the Holes. Perhaps even a scintilla more.

  24. Tau837 03/17/2012 at 3:01 PM #

    Someone mentioned in one of these threads that Gottfried was asked about State fans in his postgame presser, so I went to ncaa.com and watched it.

    He was asked if our fans are unrealistic and/or negative, and he was later asked if it is a negative to be so close to Duke and UNC. He gave great answers in both cases, praising our fans and emphasizing that being in the Triangle is a great thing for our program.

    If at all possible, SFN should pull the clips of his response to the two questions about our fans and post them here.

  25. Tuffy2 03/17/2012 at 3:04 PM #

    I don’t give a RATS ass what either one of those schools have to say on 15-501. As much as they say they hate each other they are very much the same.

    I for one will never make the usual wolfpack fan sttatement of I can pull for Duke but not fCarolina anymore. That will never come out of my mouth again. When they play each other I hope they both kill one another.

    A little harsh you say!!!

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